The Great Carpezio
Pearl Clutcher
Something profound goes here.
Posts: 2,926
Jun 25, 2014 21:50:33 GMT
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Post by The Great Carpezio on Dec 6, 2019 6:01:43 GMT
Two scenarios:
At least once a week, and lately at least twice a week, by the time your child gets to the last lunch shift, the two main hot lunch lines are out of the main entree and there is only pizza as a choice (fruit and vegetable sides are usually still there but sometimes one of those is absent as well). This has gone on since the start of the school year. Your child has chosen to skip eating those days because he does not like the pizza. A la carte is junk food. Earlier lunches will have wrapped sandwiches at a la carte, but those are gone by that time too.
Other scenario: Your sixth grade child has an ELA teacher who has them reading “Stargirl” in class all trimester and into second trimester.
They listen and follow along. They do not get to bring home the novel. They get two crosswords a week for vocab —-18 to 35 words a week. They have a comprehension test even though they don’t have the book to study and they have vocab tests, on up to 35 words a week. They are not provided anything to study but the crosswords. (No quizlets or review materials). They are words like festoon and metronomic —-and often have words they are very close to or are synonyms in the same test.
Its been a pain, but we got through it. Now though, they are having a comprehensive vocab final next week. I’m talking well over 200 words. I had my child ask the teacher how many/which words. She told him they will be random words from all the chapters. I’m thinking WTF?
Would you discuss this with the teacher or hunker down and help your child prepare? She hasn’t been particularly helpful so far in other ways.
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Deleted
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May 11, 2024 11:05:29 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Dec 6, 2019 6:12:36 GMT
Time to bring own lunch.
And Go buy the book.
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The Great Carpezio
Pearl Clutcher
Something profound goes here.
Posts: 2,926
Jun 25, 2014 21:50:33 GMT
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Post by The Great Carpezio on Dec 6, 2019 6:21:20 GMT
Time to bring own lunch. And Go buy the book. We’ve talked about bringing lunch. Not ideal for us but possible. For many kids at this school, they get free and reduced (it’s over 60%). Also, same for the book. Ok for my middle class boys, but not everyone has that option. Also, that isn’t where my concerns really lie for my son. It’s the crazy amount of vocab. I do realize part of my issue is that I know that is about the worst way to teach vocab (I am an ELA teacher). Crosswords and limited exposure to a crazy amount of words is the antithesis of best practices.
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nogfz
Full Member
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Aug 3, 2019 21:32:31 GMT
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Post by nogfz on Dec 6, 2019 6:36:32 GMT
Time to bring own lunch. And Go buy the book. My 13yo DGS has several days a week where time runs out for him to even get lunch. Literally, time runs out. The lunch period ends with him (and many fellow students) still in line. It's a very old school and while they've expanded lot for classroom space, the lunch room is the same size it was when I went to school there 40 years ago. They simply cannot fit all the students in the time given for lunch. DGS has the option to bring a lunch and eat in the courtyard if he wants and will some days. The parents are fighting for a change, of course, but in the meantime DGS has the option to bring lunch if he wants. As for the 200 words, maybe I'm missing something, but I don't see the problem. At 6th grade level, knowing 200 words from a book being read for 1+ trimesters doesn't seem too much to expect. If it is for your child, then yeah. Buy the book
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The Great Carpezio
Pearl Clutcher
Something profound goes here.
Posts: 2,926
Jun 25, 2014 21:50:33 GMT
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Post by The Great Carpezio on Dec 6, 2019 6:53:13 GMT
Well, it will be interesting to see how this thread goes. I can see your point if they worked with the words throughout the tri, but they don’t. They are exposed by reading them, do a crossword and then tested and move on to the next words. He said they played a game once with one week’s words. They have talked briefly about a few of the words as they read. Btw: I’ve never complained about instruction to a teacher yet, so I don’t think I’m normally hypercritical. Perhaps I am now that the content is more like what I teach? (9-12) I am far from perfect, but I haven’t had my kids do a crossword in 20 years. Here are some of the tools that many ELA and content area teachers use that would be considered or include valid instructional techniques: Marzano’s Six steps 17 exposures to new words/content Current research: Government recommendations
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The Great Carpezio
Pearl Clutcher
Something profound goes here.
Posts: 2,926
Jun 25, 2014 21:50:33 GMT
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Post by The Great Carpezio on Dec 6, 2019 6:54:18 GMT
Time to bring own lunch. And Go buy the book. My 13yo DGS has several days a week where time runs out for him to even get lunch. Literally, time runs out. The lunch period ends with him (and many fellow students) still in line. It's a very old school and while they've expanded lot for classroom space, the lunch room is the same size it was when I went to school there 40 years ago. They simply cannot fit all the students in the time given for lunch. DGS has the option to bring a lunch and eat in the courtyard if he wants and will some days. The parents are fighting for a change, of course, but in the meantime DGS has the option to bring lunch if he wants. As for the 200 words, maybe I'm missing something, but I don't see the problem. At 6th grade level, knowing 200 words from a book being read for 1+ trimesters doesn't seem too much to expect. If it is for your child, then yeah. Buy the book It sounds like they need a different bell schedule.
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nogfz
Full Member
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Aug 3, 2019 21:32:31 GMT
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Post by nogfz on Dec 6, 2019 6:55:39 GMT
My 13yo DGS has several days a week where time runs out for him to even get lunch. Literally, time runs out. The lunch period ends with him (and many fellow students) still in line. It's a very old school and while they've expanded lot for classroom space, the lunch room is the same size it was when I went to school there 40 years ago. They simply cannot fit all the students in the time given for lunch. DGS has the option to bring a lunch and eat in the courtyard if he wants and will some days. The parents are fighting for a change, of course, but in the meantime DGS has the option to bring lunch if he wants. As for the 200 words, maybe I'm missing something, but I don't see the problem. At 6th grade level, knowing 200 words from a book being read for 1+ trimesters doesn't seem too much to expect. If it is for your child, then yeah. Buy the book It sounds like they need a different bell schedule. They need a different something.
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Post by kristi on Dec 6, 2019 7:10:36 GMT
I would not contact the school.
The lunch issue is easily fixed by him bringing a lunch or snacks to get him through the day.
My daughter could have handled/excelled at the vocabulary test at that age. My current middle school son would likely do poorly on that test.
I feel like this is the time for him to learn and make mistakes - so hopefully he can figure it out before high school when the consequences are greater grade wise & the course load more challenging.
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The Great Carpezio
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Something profound goes here.
Posts: 2,926
Jun 25, 2014 21:50:33 GMT
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Post by The Great Carpezio on Dec 6, 2019 7:27:13 GMT
So, so far no one would be concerned about the lunch? To me it sounds like a systemic problem. I teach in a larger school in a neighboring district. This isn’t an issue there. Their elementary didn’t have the issue. It was the same district.
I have not talked to anyone in real life about the vocab, but I’ve talked to a bunch of people about the lunch issue, and they all thought it was ridiculous for this to happen on a regular basis. Most would contact the school.
I did send an email yesterday about the lunch. I shared my son’s perception (and acknowledged I waited a while because kids can be hyperbolic). I wanted to make sure the principal knew, see what his perception was and was wondering if it was something they were working on trying to improve. I wasn’t pissy. I kept it light and professional.
I didn’t contact just because of my kid. This school really does have many kids where that meal is their main meal of the day. I also think when it happens over and over again, it communicates to those kids who are affected that they don’t really matter. My one son eats an earlier shift and gets to choose from two entrees, pizza and a fully stocked a la carte all year. His twin brother get little to no choice most days. That isn’t equal access.
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Post by LavenderLayoutLady on Dec 6, 2019 9:42:59 GMT
Time to bring own lunch. And Go buy the book. My very first thought.
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Post by Basket1lady on Dec 6, 2019 9:57:13 GMT
The lunch thing would bug me, but I could easily solve it with money (pack a lunch). But I see your point. This is an issue bigger than your son. And what about the lactose intolerant/dairy allergy kids? And the students on free lunches, who likely don’t have plentiful nutritious foods at home and now are only being given a load of carbs and fatty cheese. I can see this being a job for the PTA, since the lunch staff has chosen not to solve the problem. A group of parents banding together may have more impact than a single voice.
As for the vocab, I never did figure out how to “fix” a bad teacher. How do you go in and tell a teacher they aren’t teaching effectively? All the teacher will hear is that you don’t like how they are doing their job. A few times I’ve tried saying that my kid learns by xyz, trying to prompt some new techniques, but it’s never worked. And let’s face it, reading a novel over months has got to be horrible. How will they ever remember what happened back in September? I can remember one teacher’s fondness for word finds. I’ll admit, I did those while my kids did real homework. Crosswords are only marginally better What a waste!
Instead, we worked on it at home. Presumably they have been provided vocab listens over the past few months. I did a lot of extended learning after school. A lot. So yes, I’d buy the book and yes, I’d work with my kids on the vocab at home. This is a great example of how money and middle class makes a difference in learning. We had the money for materials for projects and I had the time to work with the kids.
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johnnysmom
Drama Llama
Posts: 5,682
Jun 25, 2014 21:16:33 GMT
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Post by johnnysmom on Dec 6, 2019 10:12:46 GMT
My answer to these types of questions is almost always....what do your kids want you to do? Is this serious enough to them for you to contact the school/teacher? If so then do it, if not then let it go. My older son usually chose to let it go or figure out an alternative himself than to have me butt in. On the couple of occasions he did want my help I knew he was really bothered by the situation so my help was needed. Yds hasn’t really had a situation arise where he could make that choice (he’s only 3rd grade).
I do see your point of these issues affecting other kids who may not have the same resources (financial, present parents, etc) your kids do but I still think you need to follow your kids’ lead when it comes to contacting the school.
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Post by christine58 on Dec 6, 2019 11:47:10 GMT
The Great Carpezio So, so far no one would be concerned about the lunch? Oh I am concerned. It's poor planning on their part to not have enough and I would let someone know...maybe higher ups are not aware? As a retired teacher...that's not how you teach vocabulary at all.
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Jili
Pearl Clutcher
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Jun 26, 2014 1:26:48 GMT
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Post by Jili on Dec 6, 2019 12:12:46 GMT
Call about the lunch, for sure. This happens too often where I work and it’s an issue the principal is working hard to fix (we use an outside food service provider). There are reasons for it that are on our end, too (students changing their mind after they’ve already chosen an entree at morning lunch count). They can’t problem-solve if they don’t know.
As for the vocabulary, ugh. I agree that that is no way to teach vocabulary. I honestly do not even know what to say about that. It is shocking and I can’t believe a teacher today would operate like that.
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Post by jeremysgirl on Dec 6, 2019 12:15:58 GMT
I would take issue with the lunch for sure. I would be kind but informative. It's quite possible the pizza is actually more popular and they make more period. They might not even realize that this is affecting students. You're never going to see change without action. I would speak up but I would accept if nothing changes and send him homemade lunch.
I would not speak out about the vocabulary. I think the teacher is fine to run her classroom how she sees fit. I would just accept in my head that this was going to be a challenge for my kid and he might not perform at a high level. And that's ok, IMO. But I would try a flashcard approach with him.
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Post by ljs1691 on Dec 6, 2019 12:33:22 GMT
Ok, I am going to validate you because a proper lunch is imperative to so many students for a variety of reasons. I would not hesitate to call the cafeteria manager and discuss. It may not even be a school level decision if you are in public school. My kids would be sick of pizza all the time. I am fortunate enough to have time to fix a lunch for my kids everyday. They don't really like school lunches for the most part.
The vocab, while it sucks, we would probably just do the best we could and figure it out. I try not to fuss about assignments; however, after four kids there have been times I wanted to say more than a few things.
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The Great Carpezio
Pearl Clutcher
Something profound goes here.
Posts: 2,926
Jun 25, 2014 21:50:33 GMT
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Post by The Great Carpezio on Dec 6, 2019 12:38:10 GMT
I would take issue with the lunch for sure. I would be kind but informative. It's quite possible the pizza is actually more popular and they make more period. They might not even realize that this is affecting students. You're never going to see change without action. I would speak up but I would accept if nothing changes and send him homemade lunch. I would not speak out about the vocabulary. I think the teacher is fine to run her classroom how she sees fit. I would just accept in my head that this was going to be a challenge for my kid and he might not perform at a high level. And that's ok, IMO. But I would try a flashcard approach with him. I have not said anything. This has been my approach. We’ve been making weekly Quizlets the last four weeks. The problem is that the first weeks they could “use their crosswords.” Which, I thought wasn’t really a test, but hey, ok. Do your crossword; get a good grade. Then she suddenly switched to real tests. Which, ok, fine but 30 words and no review tools (they have 1:1 iPads btw) I know all our kids had different experiences, but my kids didn’t have much homework in elementary. The also never really had to study for anything other than spelling tests, which stopped after third grade. They are new middle schoolers. I feel like sixth graders need to be modeled how to study. Again, I’m a teacher. I’m teaching my kids these skills now, but most of these kids don’t have that. My son was ok with me contacting the principal about the food. I would never have contacted him without discussing it with my son first.
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Post by jeremysgirl on Dec 6, 2019 12:44:57 GMT
I would take issue with the lunch for sure. I would be kind but informative. It's quite possible the pizza is actually more popular and they make more period. They might not even realize that this is affecting students. You're never going to see change without action. I would speak up but I would accept if nothing changes and send him homemade lunch. I would not speak out about the vocabulary. I think the teacher is fine to run her classroom how she sees fit. I would just accept in my head that this was going to be a challenge for my kid and he might not perform at a high level. And that's ok, IMO. But I would try a flashcard approach with him. I have not said anything. This has been my approach. We’ve been making weekly Quizlets the last four weeks. The problem is that the first weeks they could “use their crosswords.” Which, I thought wasn’t really a test, but hey, ok. Do your crossword; get a good grade. Then she suddenly switched to real tests. Which, ok, fine but 30 words and no review tools (they have 1:1 iPads btw) I know all our kids had different experiences, but my kids didn’t have much homework in elementary. The also never really had to study for anything other than spelling tests, which stopped after third grade. Again, I’m a teacher. I’m teaching my kids these skills now, but most of these kids don’t have that. My son was ok with me contacting the principal about the food. I would never have contacted him without discussing it with my son first. It's just my opinion that not every assignment is going to be quality. And I accept that. And not every thing will my child excel. And that's ok. And really, I think the best lesson for the teacher is to give the test and have all her students do poorly. If that happens, she will naturally reconsider her teaching skills on this lesson. If he's an other wise good student, I'd just let the chips fall. I appreciate that you're looking out for kids who don't have the same resources yours do. But there's a stinker of an assignment for every teacher. Let this be her stinker. Let her reevaluate her process. That's just what I would do.
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momto4kiddos
Drama Llama
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Jun 26, 2014 11:45:15 GMT
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Post by momto4kiddos on Dec 6, 2019 12:46:57 GMT
I would definitely bring the lunch situation to the principals attention. For a lot of the reasons already stated earlier, this should be addressed.
While I wouldn't be thrilled with the vocab situation, it's a good opportunity to teach your ds to find better methods to study that work for him. Crossword vocab does not sound like a great learning tool, but you could turn those into flashcards. Not every method works for every kid so you have a great opportunity to teach him how to help himself come up with better ways to learn.
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The Great Carpezio
Pearl Clutcher
Something profound goes here.
Posts: 2,926
Jun 25, 2014 21:50:33 GMT
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Post by The Great Carpezio on Dec 6, 2019 12:58:09 GMT
I have not said anything. This has been my approach. We’ve been making weekly Quizlets the last four weeks. The problem is that the first weeks they could “use their crosswords.” Which, I thought wasn’t really a test, but hey, ok. Do your crossword; get a good grade. Then she suddenly switched to real tests. Which, ok, fine but 30 words and no review tools (they have 1:1 iPads btw) I know all our kids had different experiences, but my kids didn’t have much homework in elementary. The also never really had to study for anything other than spelling tests, which stopped after third grade. Again, I’m a teacher. I’m teaching my kids these skills now, but most of these kids don’t have that. My son was ok with me contacting the principal about the food. I would never have contacted him without discussing it with my son first. It's just my opinion that not every assignment is going to be quality. And I accept that. And not every thing will my child excel. And that's ok. And really, I think the best lesson for the teacher is to give the test and have all her students do poorly. If that happens, she will naturally reconsider her teaching skills on this lesson. If he's an other wise good student, I'd just let the chips fall. I appreciate that you're looking out for kids who don't have the same resources yours do. But there's a stinker of an assignment for every teacher. Let this be her stinker. Let her reevaluate her process. That's just what I would do. I know all this. That’s why I haven’t said anything. I’ve been judged fairly and unfairly, and I’ve had poor practices no one called me on and good practices that were questioned in my 23 years of teaching. (Not often). She has been doing this a long time. She doesn’t strike me as introspective type. I wasn’t going to contact her and tell her she is doing it wrong. I was going to ask her if she could clarify the actual words he will be tested on so we can study those and really know them vs. superficially memorizing/re studying 200 plus words. I’d like to make a review game for him.
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The Great Carpezio
Pearl Clutcher
Something profound goes here.
Posts: 2,926
Jun 25, 2014 21:50:33 GMT
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Post by The Great Carpezio on Dec 6, 2019 13:19:40 GMT
Also, to give you a bigger picture of her teaching style. At conferences I tried to clarify her reading practice.
She had them reading a personal choice novel every two weeks. She expected them to finish it. Not pages. The entire book, and wanted a report. Because many kids were not getting done the first couple times (because they picked out bigger books—-mine picked out a 400 pager the first time), she even said to the class, and then repeated it to us at conferences, that she didn’t care what book it was. If they weren’t done they should just do it on a book they read before. Um. Ok.
My son is not a fast reader, so we just started picking short books. Whatever. I tell him he is going to have teachers like this. I’m trying really hard not to intervene. It’s killing me.
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Post by mikklynn on Dec 6, 2019 13:35:28 GMT
I would absolutely call about the lunch situation. It's not just your child affected. The kids on free/reduced lunch deserve the full lunch.
I would NOT contact the teacher. I do find it odd the students do not have a copy of the book. I assume that is a budget issue.
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Post by iamkristinl16 on Dec 6, 2019 13:47:45 GMT
I would contact the school about the lunch issue. You are paying the same amount as people who are getting full access to the lunch options and your kids should have the same quality of lunch.
I also would be concerned about the ELA class. In your case I would buy the book for my kids (it is not uncommon for my kids to have to buy a book for a class, especially in high school. For example, this year my 9th grader had to buy To Kill A Mockingbird). In their case, the whole class is expected to have the book, but I don't see a problem with your kids buying it themselves if it will help them study for the class. I would talk to her about the expectations and how to better help the kids. It doesn't sounds like she has a very good strategy that will help kids learn and succeed.
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Deleted
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May 11, 2024 11:05:30 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Dec 6, 2019 13:54:14 GMT
For the lunch issue I would alert both site and district nutrition services and if they get any funding (title 1?), alert the program too.
I would suggest they look at how many kids are at lunch or various lunches.
How long lunch? Here is is 35 min. They will have the data to see that they need to prepare more full hot lunches especially with 60% on free/reduced.
Oh and also speak at the next board meeting with your concerns. Speak with the PTA too.
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Post by coaliesquirrel on Dec 6, 2019 13:56:08 GMT
I wasn’t going to contact her and tell her she is doing it wrong. I was going to ask her if she could clarify the actual words he will be tested on so we can study those and really know them vs. superficially memorizing/re studying 200 plus words. I’d like to make a review game for him. I'm afraid this will sound much snarkier than I mean it, so please know I'm just trying to give a different perspective. If I was a teacher and someone asked this of me, I'd laugh it off and wonder why they thought their kid should have insider knowledge and thus a reduced list of words to study. Your goal is to have him really REALLY know and understand the words; however that may not be the teacher's (or curriculum's) goal. I know that sounds crazy, but hear me out: maybe he doesn't need to be *fluent* in those words, he just needs to know the gist of them. My DD's (6th grade) vocab tests are multiple choice, true/false, etc. rather than "essay" style. She doesn't need to know the intricacies and nuances of the words - just the general idea. And before we say well it's terrible to teach to the test, think of how many words you "know" but while you couldn't exactly define them, you could point to which of two things exemplifies them, or answer a true/false question about them. This attorney gets that language matters and nuances make a difference TO ME, but I know that's not the case for many if not most people. I feel your passion for this kind of learning - truly I do. And I agree that it looks like there could be better quality instruction happening. But, if we're honest, there's a lot of areas in our adult lives where we know just surface amounts rather than depth & detail, and it serves us perfectly well. She had them reading a personal choice novel every two weeks. She expected them to finish it. Not pages. The entire book, and wanted a report. Because many kids were not getting done the first couple times (because they picked out bigger books—-mine picked out a 400 pager the first time), she even said to the class, and then repeated it to us at conferences, that she didn’t care what book it was. If they weren’t done they should just do it on a book they read before. Um. Ok. This reminds me of a throwdown we had with DD's ELA teacher over a journalling assignment last year. Long story short, I wonder if the reason she doesn't care really what they "read" is that this is just about the writing. I mean, you said they're reading the class book with a focus on comprehension, vocab, etc. It sounds to me like she just wants them to have report-style (as opposed to creative) writing practice, in which case it wouldn't matter what the book was, or even when they read it so long as they remembered it well enough to write about. I know how much it sucks to not feel like your kid's needs are being met by the teacher or their instructional methods. And, I appreciate that while your DS has you to help, not all kids have parents with the skills or availability to help them out. But sometimes I think you just have to decide whether something's SO bad that it's worth getting your kid moved to another class - and if not, just acknowledge that it sucks and hope for better next year.
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Deleted
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May 11, 2024 11:05:30 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Dec 6, 2019 13:56:33 GMT
And now for the book...
This is a learning experience. Time to adjust how your child studies.
I have always bought the class book for dd. She has always kept a notebook of character info, vocab, scene info, ect. This helps her study for tests.
She has had vocab tests on books read in a month to month and a half. Way less than a trimester. It was a chapter to 3 a day.
I would not talk with the teacher.
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Post by myshelly on Dec 6, 2019 14:00:09 GMT
The child should pack his own lunch and buy his own book and do his own work.
If he has a list of the vocab words, why does he need anything else? What exactly do you think the teacher needs to provide as review materials?
No, I would not talk to the school about any of these whiny, ridiculous complaints.
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The Great Carpezio
Pearl Clutcher
Something profound goes here.
Posts: 2,926
Jun 25, 2014 21:50:33 GMT
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Post by The Great Carpezio on Dec 6, 2019 14:12:24 GMT
The child should pack his own lunch and buy his own book and do his own work. If he has a list of the vocab words, why does he need anything else? What exactly do you think the teacher needs to provide as review materials? No, I would not talk to the school about any of these whiny, ridiculous complaints. I must teach in a very different district than some of you. Our kids get their own books. We don’t have kids buy books. We strive for all kids to have equal access to our resources. Ours kids have teachers who try to be innovative and use best practices.
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The Great Carpezio
Pearl Clutcher
Something profound goes here.
Posts: 2,926
Jun 25, 2014 21:50:33 GMT
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Post by The Great Carpezio on Dec 6, 2019 14:14:58 GMT
The child should pack his own lunch and buy his own book and do his own work. If he has a list of the vocab words, why does he need anything else? What exactly do you think the teacher needs to provide as review materials? No, I would not talk to the school about any of these whiny, ridiculous complaints. I must teach in a very different district than some of you. Our kids get their own books. We don’t have kids buy books. We strive for all kids to have equal access to our resources. Ours kids have teachers who try to be innovative and use best practices. Oh, and you are rude. As usual. Thanks for your always judgmental input. I saw you had posted and knew it would be your typical.
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Post by jeremysgirl on Dec 6, 2019 14:17:23 GMT
The child should pack his own lunch The OP's kids might be able to do so, but chances are there are a lot of kids in this district that don't have the ability to do so and count on that meal for their nutrition. By speaking out, the OP might be helping a lot of kids less fortunate. And that was part of my motivation in encouraging her to do so.
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