pinklady
Drama Llama
Posts: 5,528 
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Post by pinklady on Oct 29, 2020 17:30:52 GMT
Yeah, trumps gonna save your industry. Cult believers are so stupid.
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Post by hop2 on Oct 29, 2020 17:43:24 GMT
To be honest, they do have a better chance than coal. Not much better, but better. People sure do love their cars. And many are too stubborn to get an electric car or a hybrid. Plus you can make so much other crap from oil byproducts. On the decline, sure, but they have some chances to draw that decline out for a couple of decades maybe.
There’s isn’t much we can personally love about coal. Now companies can use coal to produce power if they want to and that different. But personal use of coal is a thing of the past, as it should be. It’s dirty. It smells when it’s burned. And it’s gets everything around it dirty. ( we had a coal stove when I was growing up I’m quite familiar with ‘personal’ coal use and all it’s problems ) Once power plants are done with coal it will only be needed in steel manufacturing & cement manufacturing. We are not making Plastic bags & Vaseline out of coal. We aren’t driving around coal fueled vehicles ( YUCK )
So if you think about it the oil industry is not nearly as far gone as the coal industry. But Trump seems to have pressed the gas pedal on the oil industry decline with his petty trade wars & stuff. Yeah go vote for him again cause more petty trade wars will help. 👍🏻 LOL
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Deleted
Posts: 0
May 9, 2024 23:24:39 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Oct 29, 2020 17:50:34 GMT
To be honest, they do have a better chance than coal. Not much better, but better. People sure do love their cars. And many are too stubborn to get an electric car or a hybrid. Plus you can make so much other crap from oil byproducts. On the decline, sure, but they have some chances to draw that decline out for a couple of decades maybe. There’s isn’t much we can personally love about coal. Now companies can use coal to produce power if they want to and that different. But personal use of coal is a thing of the past, as it should be. It’s dirty. It smells when it’s burned. And it’s gets everything around it dirty. ( we had a coal stove when I was growing up I’m quite familiar with ‘personal’ coal use and all it’s problems ) Once power plants are done with coal it will only be needed in steel manufacturing & cement manufacturing. We are not making Plastic bags & Vaseline out of coal. We aren’t driving around coal fueled vehicles ( YUCK ) So if you think about it the oil industry is not nearly as far gone as the coal industry. But Trump seems to have pressed the gas pedal on the oil industry decline with his petty trade wars & stuff. Yeah go vote for him again cause more petty trade wars will help. 👍🏻 LOL Oil will be around MUCH longer than coal. We need it for plastics, jet fuels, industrial uses etc. BUT it will be halved or less. Fleets are electrifying hard and fast. It's cheaper on per mile basis and it's MUCH cheaper on a maintenance basis. Individual vehicles will follow. We'll look back quaintly at ICE just as we do on horses/buggies. Google Citigroup's assessment of stranded assets to see how big the bloodbath will be. Or dozens articles/day like this: blogs.platts.com/2020/10/27/peak-oil-forecasts-investment-upstream-bp-opec-fft/Many of the ICE/EV projections look like BNEF's below w/a crossover point sometime in the mid 2030s  |
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Post by mikewozowski on Oct 29, 2020 18:16:25 GMT
the virus isn't the only thing in play with the oil industry downsizing. the price of oil also has something to do with it.
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Post by Merge on Oct 29, 2020 18:43:16 GMT
Invest in alternative energy forms and job retraining for oilfield workers now, or regret it later.
Everyone we know is looking to get out of oil and gas.
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Post by crimsoncat05 on Oct 29, 2020 18:45:05 GMT
I like how they say right in the announcement that it's 'to preserve their dividend' ...they care more about their stockholders than their workers.
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Post by Merge on Oct 29, 2020 19:46:38 GMT
I like how they say right in the announcement that it's 'to preserve their dividend' ...they care more about their stockholders than their workers. Oh jeez. Of course. It’s an admission right there that trickledown economics was never going to happen. |
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Post by Darcy Collins on Oct 29, 2020 19:56:55 GMT
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Post by aj2hall on Oct 29, 2020 20:59:58 GMT
I’m sorry for those employees who lost their jobs and their families. I hope it’s a wake up call to others in the oil industry that it is not sustainable and will be shrinking in the US. I hope they can be retrained and find other jobs.
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Post by refugeepea on Oct 29, 2020 21:09:59 GMT
And many are too stubborn to get an electric car or a hybrid. I think price and commute time plays a factor. It wouldn't work for my husband to drive an all electric car. He's a low level government employee. He would have to charge the car to get home and I don't think there's many charging stations.
It's something I need to read about more, but I thought there could be issues with cold weather? Anyway, price is the biggest issue for me. I drive a 2005 mini van with no technology unless you count the built in DVD player.
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sassyangel
Drama Llama
Posts: 7,456
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Post by sassyangel on Oct 29, 2020 21:19:40 GMT
I like how they say right in the announcement that it's 'to preserve their dividend' ...they care more about their stockholders than their workers. Oh jeez. Of course. It’s an admission right there that trickledown economics was never going to happen. Ahh the Fable of Billionaire Benevolence. |
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Post by hop2 on Oct 29, 2020 21:23:15 GMT
And many are too stubborn to get an electric car or a hybrid. I think price and commute time plays a factor. It wouldn't work for my husband to drive an all electric car. He's a low level government employee. He would have to charge the car to get home and I don't think there's many charging stations.
It's something I need to read about more, but I thought there could be issues with cold weather? Anyway, price is the biggest issue for me. I drive a 2005 mini van with no technology unless you count the built in DVD player.
True You have to have the range to use an all electric car. But there are people who say they will never get one for various stubborn reasons. Those are the ones I’m talking about. |
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sassyangel
Drama Llama
Posts: 7,456
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Post by sassyangel on Oct 29, 2020 21:23:22 GMT
the virus isn't the only thing in play with the oil industry downsizing. the price of oil also has something to do with it. Those price war games Russia and the Saudis were playing just prior to Covid outbreak didnt help. Hmm 🤨🤔 Russia and the Saudis ... makes one think... |
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Post by busy on Oct 29, 2020 21:38:59 GMT
I think price and commute time plays a factor. It wouldn't work for my husband to drive an all electric car. Holy cow - how long is his commute? Most electric cars get at least 150-200 miles of range, and some quite a lot more. |
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Post by papersilly on Oct 29, 2020 21:57:35 GMT
I like how they say right in the announcement that it's 'to preserve their dividend' ...they care more about their stockholders than their workers. i think most of these large corporations feel more beholden to their stockholders than their workers. can't stockholders band together to fire CEOs and board members? doesn't shareholder confidence affect the value of the company? these companies probably feel it's easier to hire and fire workers than it is to piss of the board or have an angry mob at a shareholder meeting. i read somewhere that the top few percent of the richest people own 85% of the stock market. so we're talking about just relatively few people controlling most of the companies out there. that's a lot of clout. more than a few employees have for sure. i, for one, have very mixed feelings about the whole shareholder vs employees thing. for example, my Amazon, Apple, and Google stocks will play a big role in my retirement in a few years. as a shareholder, i want the company to run as efficiently and profitable as possible. my future depends on it. "do what you have to do to keep the stocks prices high" kind of thing. and yet, i get angry when i hear about worker conditions at Amazon warehouses or how workers are barely paid and have no health insurance at giants like Walmart (i don't own WM). am i angry enough to sell my stock? i shamefully admit, no. i think that is the ugly dilemma of shareholders and employees. |
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Post by Darcy Collins on Oct 29, 2020 22:01:33 GMT
I think price and commute time plays a factor. It wouldn't work for my husband to drive an all electric car. Holy cow - how long is his commute? Most electric cars get at least 150-200 miles of range, and some quite a lot more. I don't know where refugeepea lives but you can cut sticker ranges in about half if you live in a cold climate. |
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Post by Merge on Oct 29, 2020 22:12:14 GMT
I think price and commute time plays a factor. It wouldn't work for my husband to drive an all electric car. He's a low level government employee. He would have to charge the car to get home and I don't think there's many charging stations.
It's something I need to read about more, but I thought there could be issues with cold weather? Anyway, price is the biggest issue for me. I drive a 2005 mini van with no technology unless you count the built in DVD player.
True You have to have the range to use an all electric car. But there are people who say they will never get one for various stubborn reasons. Those are the ones I’m talking about. People say a lot of things. As the technology improves and so do ranges, they will become more and more popular. Eventually you’ll have to pay extra to get a gasoline engine car like you do for manual transmission now, because there will be fewer of them made. And then there will be fewer places to fuel them, and the tables will turn. Nothing is forever. Not the gasoline engine and not big oil. |
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Deleted
Posts: 0
May 9, 2024 23:24:39 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Oct 29, 2020 22:22:35 GMT
I think price and commute time plays a factor. It wouldn't work for my husband to drive an all electric car. Holy cow - how long is his commute? Most electric cars get at least 150-200 miles of range, and some quite a lot more. Actually more like 300 these days and that's only the beginning. 1. 2020 Tesla Model S Long Range Plus: 402 miles 2. 2020 Tesla Model X Long Range Plus: 351 miles 3. 2020 Tesla Model 3 Long Range All-Wheel Drive: 322 miles 4. 2020 Tesla Model Y Long Range: 316 miles |
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Post by refugeepea on Oct 30, 2020 17:35:36 GMT
Holy cow - how long is his commute? Most electric cars get at least 150-200 miles of range, and some quite a lot more. I just checked with my husband I thought it was around 120 round trip. It's 100 miles. Before posting yesterday, I thought I had read an article that the most was around 130. That would have been really close to needing to be charged. Anyway, looks like I was off on that. |
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Post by refugeepea on Oct 30, 2020 17:38:05 GMT
Actually more like 300 these days and that's only the beginning. 1. 2020 Tesla Model S Long Range Plus: 402 miles 2. 2020 Tesla Model X Long Range Plus: 351 miles 3. 2020 Tesla Model 3 Long Range All-Wheel Drive: 322 miles 4. 2020 Tesla Model Y Long Range: 316 miles That's awesome but don't Teslas start around $35,000? I totally understand this is the direction the U.S. needs to go, but it needs to become a more affordable option. |
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Deleted
Posts: 0
May 9, 2024 23:24:39 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Oct 30, 2020 17:55:51 GMT
Actually more like 300 these days and that's only the beginning. 1. 2020 Tesla Model S Long Range Plus: 402 miles 2. 2020 Tesla Model X Long Range Plus: 351 miles 3. 2020 Tesla Model 3 Long Range All-Wheel Drive: 322 miles 4. 2020 Tesla Model Y Long Range: 316 miles That's awesome but don't Teslas start around $35,000? I totally understand this is the direction the U.S. needs to go, but it needs to become a more affordable option. Yep. That's why this is a transition vs. a cut-over. We'll need time to get the other OEMs to add lower priced EVs to the fleets. But, keep in mind there are already used Teslas coming online (since many Tesla drivers, like iphone buyers, need the newest and the coolest even when there's nothing wrong w/their current model). Dealerships like Current Automotive or Paramount Motors will start coming online to make used EVs more affordable as a 'knock-around' vehicle: www.currentautomotive.com/ www.paramountmotorsnw.com/ |
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Post by refugeepea on Oct 30, 2020 18:04:33 GMT
Yep. That's why this is a transition vs. a cut-over. We'll need time to get the other OEMs to add lower priced EVs to the fleets. But, keep in mind there are already used Teslas coming online (since many Tesla drivers, like iphone buyers, need the newest and the coolest even when there's nothing wrong w/their current model). Dealerships like Current Automotive or Paramount Motors will start coming online to make used EVs more affordable as a 'knock-around' vehicle: www.currentautomotive.com/ www.paramountmotorsnw.com/I've had some family members who own hybrid vehicles that were converted from all gas. That seems to be the most affordable option right now. |
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julieb
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 2,845
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Post by julieb on Oct 31, 2020 2:20:10 GMT
My dh works for BP and they are in the process of laying off 25% of the employees, not surprising that Exxon is also doing the same. Fortunately for us, dh was one year from retirement and was offered a "package". 30 more days of work and he is mine forever.  |
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Post by AussieMeg on Oct 31, 2020 4:30:11 GMT
Eventually you’ll have to pay extra to get a gasoline engine car like you do for manual transmission now, because there will be fewer of them made. Kind of off topic, but is this true in the US? Here, it still costs considerably more to buy a car with an automatic transmission than a manual - the difference is around $2000 on new cars. |
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Post by SAHM wannabe on Oct 31, 2020 6:51:16 GMT
Eventually you’ll have to pay extra to get a gasoline engine car like you do for manual transmission now, because there will be fewer of them made. Kind of off topic, but is this true in the US? Here, it still costs considerably more to buy a car with an automatic transmission than a manual - the difference is around $2000 on new cars. I don’t know if it costs more to buy a manual transmission in the US, but I wouldn’t be surprised. I don’t know a single person who owns a manual transmission. Even big SUVs and large trucks are automatics. It would be unusual to see a stick shift. |
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Post by AussieMeg on Oct 31, 2020 6:59:09 GMT
Kind of off topic, but is this true in the US? Here, it still costs considerably more to buy a car with an automatic transmission than a manual - the difference is around $2000 on new cars. I don’t know if it costs more to buy a manual transmission in the US, but I wouldn’t be surprised. I don’t know a single person who owns a manual transmission. Even big SUVs and large trucks are automatics. It would be unusual to see a stick shift. Same here. Hardly anyone I know drives a manual car, although those who do swear they would never drive an auto. The guy who used to live next door had a great little car that he was trying to sell, but nobody wanted it because it was manual. I would have bought it if it had been an auto. Isn't it interesting if autos are more common in both countries but cheaper in one and more expensive in the other. |
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Post by manda on Oct 31, 2020 7:13:35 GMT
It is cheaper to buy a manual transmission. I have lived in other parts of the US where it was easier to purchase manual transmission vehicles than it is where I live now (Los Angeles).
On a trip to Costa Rica with 9 friends several years ago, only the Australian in the group and I could drive the van we rented. There were no rental cars available that were automatic where we went.
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scrappinspidey2
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 2,511
Location: In the Parlor with the Fly
Mar 18, 2015 19:19:37 GMT
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Post by scrappinspidey2 on Oct 31, 2020 8:59:56 GMT
I drive a manual. Purposely purchased my car as a manual transmission. I wouldn’t trade her in for an electric. I’ve driven electric. Nope. I prefer my manual transmission. I’m gonna be one of those hold outs I guess. My car is therapy for me and no an electric model doesn’t do the same. Tesla isn’t the only one out there with electric options, just the more popular. That said my apartment complex has no charging capabilities for electric cars. I’ve only seen a couple of charging stations mostly at grocery stores with a 2 hour time limit. I don’t know how long it takes to charge either. Granted the tech has come a long way over the last few years but they are still not affordable or that easy to charge for many. There is gonna have to be a huge shift in many directions before electric takes over gas. Yeah I know CA wants to ban gas powered vehicles in 15 years but in skeptical that will actually happen
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Post by nlwilkins on Oct 31, 2020 9:38:22 GMT
I like how they say right in the announcement that it's 'to preserve their dividend' ...they care more about their stockholders than their workers. It is easy to cast aspersions on big companies and to say things about them. I just think we should do a little more reliable research before making assumptions.
My husband retired from Shell Oil and dividends fund the retirement savings we have as well as the pension payments. My husband was just a machinist, not a CEO and not in management. So it is not always about the rich guy. A company cannot keep in business if they cannot make money, a simple fact of life. Dividends are part of keeping out of the red. The oil refineries along the ship channel in Houston always took good care of their workers. Some of my husband's coworkers retired millionaires due to their stock funding plans. They too were just blue collar workers. I am sure the CEO's made big bucks and there were stockholders who made big bucks. But the workers were well taken care of.
Some will say they waited too long to lay off workers. The oil companies are hurting due to the combination of Putin and the Saudis oil war and the reduced demand due to Covid. Putin and the Saudis were saturating the market bringing down the price of oil and then when the pandemic hit, the demand was not therefor oil no matter how low the price. At one point oil stock was practically worthless.
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Post by Merge on Oct 31, 2020 11:58:46 GMT
Eventually you’ll have to pay extra to get a gasoline engine car like you do for manual transmission now, because there will be fewer of them made. Kind of off topic, but is this true in the US? Here, it still costs considerably more to buy a car with an automatic transmission than a manual - the difference is around $2000 on new cars. In our experience, yes. DH used to prefer manual transmission (as he gets older, he wants his right hand free for drinking a giant cup of coffee on the at to work) and on new cars, you had to pay extra because that’s so uncommon now. I suppose it may not be true for some makes/models. We tend toward more toward value priced and reliable and aren’t fancy car enthusiasts. |
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