|
Post by deputydog on Dec 5, 2014 4:11:50 GMT
People keep mentioning that the police officer in question used a 'seatbelt hold' on Eric Garner but you can clearly see the officer's arms around Garner's neck when Garner is on the ground. That's not a seatbelt hold. It's a choke hold.
This whole thing is disgusting and appalling.
|
|
|
Post by jonda1974 on Dec 5, 2014 5:46:58 GMT
Can you please elucidate? Later in the thread you said you had not mentioned race, but I originally interpreted this comment as a reference about race. As I said, I never stated and do not claim to know whether or not what went on between the officer and Mr. Garner was racially motivated. I do however believe that some peas view some people stereotypically based on their comments. This has zero to do with whether this incident was based on racial profiling. Edited to add: I could see how you took it that I meant exclusively race with respect to the comment I don't know if your original comment was directed towards me or not. But if you were implying that I'm stereotyping you'd be wrong. The two men in question were not innocent to begin with. They had records and had just committed crimes. Someone who has been arrested over 30 times tells me a lot about the type of person he is. As far as Michael brown, he was a thug plain and simple.
|
|
|
Post by jonda1974 on Dec 5, 2014 5:52:07 GMT
1) No, we do not expect the police to know every person's medical condition. However, police should not use excessive force, and, in this instance, they should not have used a chokehold that was banned/forbidden/prohibited by the very own police department which employs the police officer. 2) What crime are you talking about? Selling cigarettes? You aren't deemed to have committed a crime until you've been convicted of having done so. Until such time, it's a "charge." He hadn't "committed a crime." The problem with your statement is that it presumes that "things that will cause you to be arrested," are the same across all races. The fundamental problem here is that "things that will cause" a black man to be arrested are quite often NOT the same as "things that will cause" a white man to be arrested. Quite frankly, I think that blacks, especially black men, are arrested and convicted for things that white people/men would not be. That's why race matters. That's why these cases get so much publicity and that's why it's so important to scrutinize them as much as possible. I do not see excessive force in the video. I see cops taking preventive measures with a suspect that was more than twice their size. Garner was arrested over 30 times. He was currently out on bail. He was not a stranger to criminal activity or to the cops. The law is the law. I have no fear of being arrested, not because I'm white but because I don't hang out with people who break the law, I don't break the law. It's as simple as that. No matter how small we think the law is, if the courts say it warrants an arrest then the person should be arrested.
|
|
|
Post by lucyg on Dec 5, 2014 8:19:30 GMT
ktdoesntscrap Sorry I'm so late getting back to you. Busy day. You can't legitimately make a determination about whether race is a factor in any individual case based on statistics. Statistics address generalities, not specific cases. When I originally read your post, I thought you were saying that since statistically we have a problem in this country, therefore race was an issue in Mr. Garner being arrested and later dying. On rereading, I think that's not what you were saying. For some reason I thought you were arguing that the officer should have been indicted because he went after Garner due to racism. I can see you didn't say that at all. sigh, sorry!
|
|
|
Post by ktdoesntscrap on Dec 5, 2014 12:34:32 GMT
ktdoesntscrap Sorry I'm so late getting back to you. Busy day. You can't legitimately make a determination about whether race is a factor in any individual case based on statistics. Statistics address generalities, not specific cases. When I originally read your post, I thought you were saying that since statistically we have a problem in this country, therefore race was an issue in Mr. Garner being arrested and later dying. On rereading, I think that's not what you were saying. For some reason I thought you were arguing that the officer should have been indicted because he went after Garner due to racism. I can see you didn't say that at all. sigh, sorry! No worries... it is hard sometimes to understand what we type.. I tend to type conversationally, which can make things a tad unclear! Which is why I asked for clarification. We are good.
|
|
|
Post by Kymberlee on Dec 5, 2014 12:48:50 GMT
When I first saw the video, I was appalled as most were it seems. That being said, the GJ saw a lot more then what we are privy to and I trust that the GJ made the best decision with the information given. The media is again trying to manipulate the story by omissions and using words and images meant to stir and anger people. I don't find this to be race related at all, but that is my opinion and I know there will be disagreement about that.
I just have an observation…this GJ was convened in NYC which is one of our most liberal, multi cultural and racially diverse cities in this country. From what I understand, the GJ was made up of a mix of white/non white (media's term, not mine) jurors. If this GJ didn't find reason to charge the officer, I tend to believe there really was nothing to charge him with. This didn't happen in Podunk, USA where there could be the accusation of racial stereotyping. Not that there is ANYTHING wrong with either NYC or Podunk, USA. Just kind of an observation.
|
|
~Lauren~
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 3,876
Jun 26, 2014 3:33:18 GMT
|
Post by ~Lauren~ on Dec 5, 2014 12:54:46 GMT
I couldn't agree more. Hearing that poor man repeatedly saying "I can breathe" made my blood chill.
|
|
MizIndependent
Drama Llama
Quit your bullpoop.
Posts: 5,836
Jun 25, 2014 19:43:16 GMT
|
Post by MizIndependent on Dec 5, 2014 16:59:42 GMT
Garner was arrested over 30 times. He was currently out on bail. He was not a stranger to criminal activity or to the cops. The law is the law. I have no fear of being arrested, not because I'm white but because I don't hang out with people who break the law, I don't break the law. It's as simple as that. No matter how small we think the law is, if the courts say it warrants an arrest then the person should be arrested. If you're going to bring up Garner's arrest record, you should also mention Officer Pantaleo's lawsuit and misconduct history...which is as follows:
|
|
Deleted
Posts: 0
Mar 29, 2024 14:14:46 GMT
|
Post by Deleted on Dec 5, 2014 17:04:59 GMT
Garner was arrested over 30 times. He was currently out on bail. He was not a stranger to criminal activity or to the cops. The law is the law. I have no fear of being arrested, not because I'm white but because I don't hang out with people who break the law, I don't break the law. It's as simple as that. No matter how small we think the law is, if the courts say it warrants an arrest then the person should be arrested. If you're going to bring up Garner's arrest record, you should also mention Officer Pantaleo's lawsuit and misconduct history...which is as follows: I agree...as much as I hold criminals responsible for their poor choices, and people who refuse to comply with the orders of a law enforcement officer, I hold all law enforcement agencies accountable if they're going to have bad cops out there.
Cops don't have free reign to act like assholes simply because they have a badge.
|
|
Deleted
Posts: 0
Mar 29, 2024 14:14:46 GMT
|
Post by Deleted on Dec 5, 2014 17:06:52 GMT
|
|
azredhead
Drama Llama
Posts: 5,755
Jun 25, 2014 22:49:18 GMT
|
Post by azredhead on Dec 5, 2014 17:15:52 GMT
I was tempted to post the article as it's was on the news last night, but the protests have started here last night. It's going to be very tough for cops to make sure these guys are caught that are breaking the law. Everything they do will be scrutinized. I am not sure where how I feel in the Garner case, except that the EMTS should have been more active in his care after.
|
|
|
Post by blondiec47 on Dec 5, 2014 17:16:50 GMT
While I do agree that the case in NY was wrong--what I did hear today that the media is not showing is that there was a black female supervisor there the entire time, so I don't know how racism could be an issue here.
|
|
Deleted
Posts: 0
Mar 29, 2024 14:14:46 GMT
|
Post by Deleted on Dec 5, 2014 17:34:29 GMT
While I do agree that the case in NY was wrong--what I did hear today that the media is not showing is that there was a black female supervisor there the entire time, so I don't know how racism could be an issue here. I didn't hear the interview with Garner's daughter (although I think someone may have linked it earlier in this thread) but I heard on the radio this morning that in that interview, she never claimed it had anything to do with her father being black...it was simply excessive force.
So the race baiters like Sharpton and Jackson may be pushing the agenda of racism, but the family...or at least the daughter isn't.
|
|
|
Post by gmcwife1 on Dec 5, 2014 17:43:51 GMT
When I first saw the video, I was appalled as most were it seems. That being said, the GJ saw a lot more then what we are privy to and I trust that the GJ made the best decision with the information given. The media is again trying to manipulate the story by omissions and using words and images meant to stir and anger people. I don't find this to be race related at all, but that is my opinion and I know there will be disagreement about that. I just have an observation…this GJ was convened in NYC which is one of our most liberal, multi cultural and racially diverse cities in this country. From what I understand, the GJ was made up of a mix of white/non white (media's term, not mine) jurors. If this GJ didn't find reason to charge the officer, I tend to believe there really was nothing to charge him with. This didn't happen in Podunk, USA where there could be the accusation of racial stereotyping. Not that there is ANYTHING wrong with either NYC or Podunk, USA. Just kind of an observation. My knee jerk reaction was that the officer was wrong and the grand jury got it wrong. But the more I read, hear and see I agree with Kymberlee.
|
|
|
Post by straggler on Dec 5, 2014 18:22:53 GMT
Ya know, none of us know what the Grand Jury saw/heard. Their decision based on the evidence presented is the way our system of law works. If you don't like the method, then work to change it. The man resisted arrest. Petty crime, yes. Sad that he died, yes. But he defied the police officers' directives. They don't make the laws, they are just asked every day to enforce them. They don't get to pick and choose. Some say the officer used a choke hold, others say it was a seat belt hold. Again, we don't know what the Grand Jury heard...all this protesting is not going to end well.
|
|
|
Post by boxermom73 on Dec 6, 2014 5:51:56 GMT
Neither selling cigarettes nor resisting arrest are punishable by death. It's really that simple. Also, I don't know who has been choked lately, but people who die by choking ALWAYS fight. Until they start to die, that is. It is a natural animal reflex to do so. It's really easy to sit in your perfect peaworld and say what people should have done. What I am honestly, honestly starting to believe is that some peas can never view certain people as victims, no matter what the circumstances. I Agree 100%!
|
|
MizIndependent
Drama Llama
Quit your bullpoop.
Posts: 5,836
Jun 25, 2014 19:43:16 GMT
|
Post by MizIndependent on Dec 8, 2014 17:55:44 GMT
Also, someone who actually can't breathe is not able to say "I can't breathe," or anything else. They can't speak at all. Now obviously this man did die, so something was going on there. But in general, when you hear someone say "I can't breathe," it's safe to assume they can breathe. Only posting to add some interesting information to the whole "if you can speak, you can breathe" issue. Found this post on /r/ProtectAndServe, a sub Reddit "where the law enforcement officers of Reddit can communicate with others in a controlled setting.". Here's the link: The Pernicious Myth Of "If You Can Speak You Can Breathe"(links in the text are visible on reddit)
|
|
|
Post by lucyg on Dec 8, 2014 18:07:29 GMT
Thank you for posting that, MizIndependent. It's interesting information and I will revise my opinion accordingly.
|
|
|
Post by Darcy Collins on Dec 8, 2014 18:43:47 GMT
That's really interesting information MizIndependent Thank you for posting it. I was one who stated talking was a sign of being able to breathe. I wonder if the myth is exacerbated by what's taught in many CPR and first aid classes? Choking (which is covered in first aid), I imagine is a totally different phenomena than preventing the lungs from expanding. When choking on food, the blockage would prevent the air from leaving the lungs to activate the vocal chords which is why it's often discussed in that scenario with the danger of NOT hearing sound emphasized.
|
|
|
Post by lucyg on Dec 8, 2014 19:43:32 GMT
That's really interesting information MizIndependent Thank you for posting it. I was one who stated talking was a sign of being able to breathe. I wonder if the myth is exacerbated by what's taught in many CPR and first aid classes? Choking (which is covered in first aid), I imagine is a totally different phenomena than preventing the lungs from expanding. When choking on food, the blockage would prevent the air from leaving the lungs to activate the vocal chords which is why it's often discussed in that scenario with the danger of NOT hearing sound emphasized. I had forgotten, but that's where I learned the thing about not being able to speak when you're choking, too. CPR class, many years ago.
|
|
|
Post by jonda1974 on Dec 9, 2014 19:40:37 GMT
Hate Crime alleged in St. LouisInteresting how they maintain that one attack was a hate crime and the other one wasn't. Wondering if it's because one victim is still able to speak.
|
|