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Post by onelasttime on Jan 19, 2023 17:37:08 GMT
Yea or nay?
This is just breaking with little specifics.
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Post by onelasttime on Jan 19, 2023 17:38:23 GMT
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mamapeaah
Full Member
Posts: 325
Sept 30, 2021 4:39:02 GMT
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Post by mamapeaah on Jan 19, 2023 17:41:08 GMT
UGH I will literally leave if they do that. Not only is the health care system a joke but now they want me to pay 30% sales tax? As a middle class person, I spend a high proportion of my income, this sucks.
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Post by Merge on Jan 19, 2023 17:41:41 GMT
1. This is just grandstanding. It won't pass the Senate and likely won't even pass the House.
2. Sales tax of any kind disproportionately affects the poor and middle class, who spend a much larger percentage of their income on goods and services than rich people do. So people who now make so little that they effectively pay no income tax would suddenly see their tax rates rise substantially.
3. States like Texas, which like to boast having no income tax, offset this with a higher sales tax and property taxes already. We've seen this play out already. It's a boon for the rich and a tragedy for the middle class and poor.
4. Companies that sell anything other than basic life necessities will take a hit, as the poor and middle class will suddenly have much less money to spend on whatever they sell.
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Post by busy on Jan 19, 2023 17:47:39 GMT
That's insanity and as regressive as a tax could possibly be. So of course I'm 0% surprised those cruel lunatics would come up with it.
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Post by hop2 on Jan 19, 2023 18:05:38 GMT
Well, if it weren’t 30% and it left out necessities like food, healthcare, etc. then I could be persuaded. Frankly I can control what I spend ( better than they can anyway ) but if it’s on necessities then, no that taxes the poor just trying to eat.
Tax yachts, luxury cars, cruises, stock trades, private rides into space, sure why not. Food no way. Tuition? Are you fucking crazy it’s already way too unaffordable, only the rich would ever get educated if you add 30% more onto that.
Leave it to the gop to find yet another way to ease taxes on the rich while burdening the poor.
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Post by littlemama on Jan 19, 2023 18:16:31 GMT
This is just attention-seeking behavior. The GOP doesnt have any policies so they are just throwing whatever they want out there. It is ridiculous and I am so sad that they won the house.
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casii
Drama Llama
Posts: 5,461
Jun 29, 2014 14:40:44 GMT
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Post by casii on Jan 19, 2023 18:22:08 GMT
I feel like it's performance art and we're in for 2 more years of this. The price of eggs would go from expensive to becoming a full on luxury item.
Twitter is losing it's mind over it which says a lot considering Twitter has gone to the extremes since Musk took over.
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pinklady
Drama Llama
Posts: 5,505
Nov 14, 2016 23:47:03 GMT
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Post by pinklady on Jan 19, 2023 18:22:36 GMT
Unless you are a multimillionaire the republican party hates you and wants you to fail. They want you to be poor and uneducated. If you are not a multimillionaire and vote republican you are a fucking moron and I hope you get what you deserve.
Luckily with a Democratic Senate this won't happen. You're welcome moron republican voters.
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Post by snowsilver on Jan 19, 2023 18:27:59 GMT
Isn't this what Europe and Canada have done for years? Seems to work for them. I have always been a fan of either the flat tax or consumption tax.
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Post by Merge on Jan 19, 2023 18:38:21 GMT
Isn't this what Europe and Canada have done for years? Seems to work for them. I have always been a fan of either the flat tax or consumption tax. No, it's not. Countries that rely on a flat tax - not Canada, and only a few Baltic states in Europe - typically have lower GDPs and very fragile or nonexistent safety net services.
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Nanner
Drama Llama
Posts: 5,960
Jun 25, 2014 23:13:23 GMT
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Post by Nanner on Jan 19, 2023 18:40:57 GMT
Isn't this what Europe and Canada have done for years? Seems to work for them. I have always been a fan of either the flat tax or consumption tax. oh for crying out loud.
Canada has a 5% GST, and it's NOT on food necessities.
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Post by Merge on Jan 19, 2023 18:43:19 GMT
I have to wonder what they imagine would happen in states like mine that already have sales tax of 8.25% and much higher property taxes than the US average.
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Post by revirdsuba99 on Jan 19, 2023 18:59:57 GMT
Flat tax on income is far different then 30% sales tax. Sales taxes here is not on groceries, clothing etc. Senior citizens, those on the poverty boarder line, middle income surely cannot pay 30% sales tax.. PERIOD!!
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Post by snowsilver on Jan 19, 2023 19:05:36 GMT
I just checked the VAT taxes in Europe. 21 percent is average. Some are as high as 24 percent. This has worked in Europe for many, many years. WHY won't it work here the same way?
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Post by hopemax on Jan 19, 2023 20:06:40 GMT
Besides all the other reasons why this a bad idea. It also seems like it will allow wealthy Americans to not only not “buy American,” they will have lesser incentive to even “Shop American.” Depending on the international country, VATs can be refunded on larger purchases. Or online purchases may not even have it applied in the first place. If you go over your duty allowance and actually declare and pay your duty. It’s 3% not 30%.
I agree this is a stunt. But regular Americans need to be conscious about the effects because they will continue to try it. If you are employed or own a retail business that doesn’t sell absolute necessities your current clientele will be affected.
Someone asked how does this work in Europe. In this example, countries have more restrictive duty taxes. You want to shop in the US and bring it back to an EU country you not only are expected to pay the duty for that type of item, but the VAT. The example on the Ireland page is paying 12% on an €800 dress and in addition, the 23% VAT. There is less incentive to go shop in NYC to avoid taxes.
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nursema
Full Member
Posts: 352
Mar 1, 2022 10:14:32 GMT
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Post by nursema on Jan 19, 2023 20:10:55 GMT
Unless you are a multimillionaire the republican party hates you and wants you to fail. They want you to be poor and uneducated. If you are not a multimillionaire and vote republican you are a fucking moron and I hope you get what you deserve. Luckily with a Democratic Senate this won't happen. You're welcome moron republican voters. 1000000000% on the bolded. I still cannot wrap my brain around the fact that more don’t understand this. The writing has been on the wall for quite some time - this is nothing new! 🤬
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Post by Scrapper100 on Jan 19, 2023 20:22:14 GMT
Nuts. It would be like inflation on steroids this would hit the lower class the hardest they are already having problems keeping up. I can’t imagine paying that much as that’s higher than income tax rates. Let’s just try and break everything seems to be what they are trying for right now.
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Post by revirdsuba99 on Jan 19, 2023 21:56:06 GMT
Nuts. It would be like inflation on steroids this would hit the lower class the hardest they are already having problems keeping up. I can’t imagine paying that much as that’s higher than income tax rates. Let’s just try and break everything seems to be what they are trying for right now. Yes. Income tax is on income. Their sales tax is everything, including milk, bread, eggs. In other words, FOOD. Basic necessities. How about a washing machine, stove .. Not luxuries.
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Post by snowsilver on Jan 19, 2023 22:21:06 GMT
Yes, but this is a much fairer tax. EVERYONE pays with no way for the rich to use shelters. You pay on what you buy, period. There is no income tax aside for that. The IRS is a bloated, poorly working organization that hasn't done it's work well in decades. With this, there is no IRS. Yes, you pay an extra amount on everything you buy--and so do the rich! And 30 percent will never fly! And there would be adjustments made perhaps including some things being untaxed such as food, etc. It would require a lot of battling back and forth but in the end it is a much fairer and easier way to pay taxes. Again, it is working very well in Europe. Our tax system has been a mess for years.
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Post by hop2 on Jan 19, 2023 22:23:59 GMT
Flat tax on income is far different then 30% sales tax. Sales taxes here is not on groceries, clothing etc. Senior citizens, those on the poverty boarder line, middle income surely cannot pay 30% sales tax.. PERIOD!! not when you include necessities like FOOD in the taxable purchases. Food has already gone up quite a bit.
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Post by hop2 on Jan 19, 2023 22:26:35 GMT
Yes, but this is a much fairer tax. EVERYONE pays with no way for the rich to use shelters. You pay on what you buy, period. There is no income tax aside for that. The IRS is a bloated, poorly working organization that hasn't done it's work well in decades. With this, there is no IRS. Yes, you pay an extra amount on everything you buy--and so do the rich! And 30 percent will never fly! And there would be adjustments made perhaps including some things being untaxed such as food, etc. It would require a lot of battling back and forth but in the end it is a much fairer and easier way to pay taxes. Again, it is working very well in Europe. Our tax system has been a mess for years. Unless you remove necessities, like food, from the taxable items then, no it is not fair. Poor people don’t have %30 more to pay for food. It will impact them the most.
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Deleted
Posts: 0
Apr 28, 2024 20:35:56 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Jan 19, 2023 22:37:40 GMT
Yes, but this is a much fairer tax. EVERYONE pays with no way for the rich to use shelters. You pay on what you buy, period. There is no income tax aside for that. The IRS is a bloated, poorly working organization that hasn't done it's work well in decades. With this, there is no IRS. Yes, you pay an extra amount on everything you buy--and so do the rich! And 30 percent will never fly! And there would be adjustments made perhaps including some things being untaxed such as food, etc. It would require a lot of battling back and forth but in the end it is a much fairer and easier way to pay taxes. Again, it is working very well in Europe. Our tax system has been a mess for years. Imagine paying another 30% on your car insurance, your health insurance, your travel, etc AND still paying for health insurance that won't cover everything. Know why the higher taxes work in other countries? They have universal healthcare. Here, we choose between insurance and groceries. No, the proposed plan is not a good thing. They're proposing a tax on every single thing. You want to pay 30% more for your phone service? For an oil change? Your gas? Are you actually willing to do that knowing that the people who make the least amount of money cannot afford the increase?
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Post by Merge on Jan 19, 2023 22:38:28 GMT
Yes, but this is a much fairer tax. EVERYONE pays with no way for the rich to use shelters. You pay on what you buy, period. There is no income tax aside for that. The IRS is a bloated, poorly working organization that hasn't done it's work well in decades. With this, there is no IRS. Yes, you pay an extra amount on everything you buy--and so do the rich! And 30 percent will never fly! And there would be adjustments made perhaps including some things being untaxed such as food, etc. It would require a lot of battling back and forth but in the end it is a much fairer and easier way to pay taxes. Again, it is working very well in Europe. Our tax system has been a mess for years. Europeans do not universally agree with you that VAT is “working well.” I think you need to do some more research instead of relying on the peas to educate you on this topic.
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Post by imkat on Jan 19, 2023 22:40:01 GMT
Federal: We pay about 20 percent income tax after deductions, so no thanks.
State: We have high state taxes, property taxes and sales taxes, which I’m sure would still remain. 30 percent on top of that? No thanks again.
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Post by Merge on Jan 19, 2023 22:40:50 GMT
Yes, but this is a much fairer tax. EVERYONE pays with no way for the rich to use shelters. You pay on what you buy, period. There is no income tax aside for that. The IRS is a bloated, poorly working organization that hasn't done it's work well in decades. With this, there is no IRS. Yes, you pay an extra amount on everything you buy--and so do the rich! And 30 percent will never fly! And there would be adjustments made perhaps including some things being untaxed such as food, etc. It would require a lot of battling back and forth but in the end it is a much fairer and easier way to pay taxes. Again, it is working very well in Europe. Our tax system has been a mess for years. Imagine paying another 30% on your car insurance, your health insurance, your travel, etc AND still paying for health insurance that won't cover everything. Know why the higher taxes work in other countries? They have universal healthcare. Here, we choose between insurance and groceries. No, the proposed plan is not a good thing. They're proposing a tax on every single thing. You want to pay 30% more for your phone service? For an oil change? Your gas? Are you actually willing to do that knowing that the people who make the least amount of money cannot afford the increase? And tuition. Republicans want to end public education and force everyone to pay for private school, and then they’re going to tax the tuition at 30% on top of that. The mind boggles.
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Post by katlady on Jan 19, 2023 23:06:09 GMT
A national sales tax instead of an income tax is not fair because everyone does not spend at the same rate. You have young families who spend more than families with no kids, the elderly spend less, the lower-income people are already spending a big chunk of their income just on necessities, etc. Higher-end shopping, like for luxury items may do ok because the rich can still afford them. But the economy for middle and lower class items would slow down. People would eat out less, and shop less, meaning less revenues for the businesses and that would have a trickle down effect to the workers and suppliers. I really don't see a 30% tax being a good thing for the U.S.
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Post by iamkristinl16 on Jan 19, 2023 23:11:05 GMT
This sounds like a terrible idea. We need to increase taxes on the wealthy. The middle class is being squeezed too much as it is and a 30% sales tax would really hurt the middle and lower income earners while helping the rich.
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inkedup
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 4,837
Jun 26, 2014 5:00:26 GMT
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Post by inkedup on Jan 19, 2023 23:12:14 GMT
Every republican I know blames democrats for the inflation that is gripping the world.
But, yeah. Let's add another 30% on top of that.
This would literally take food out of the mouths of people.
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wellway
Prolific Pea
Posts: 8,759
Jun 25, 2014 20:50:09 GMT
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Post by wellway on Jan 19, 2023 23:18:41 GMT
The standard rate in the UK for VAT(value added tax) is 20% but there are other rates, exempt, zero-rated and reduced rate at 5% www.gov.uk/vat-ratesBusinesses trading above a certain level have to register for VAT and make a vat return every three months. Basically, it's a statement showing for much vat the company charged and how much vat it was charged. The difference is either payable or reclaimable. I'm not sure I understand the statement there will be no IRS, somehow the government has to collect the money. Here, in the UK, businesses collect the tax and pay it over to HMRC. The final consumer, i.e. usually, you and me, pay the charge for a service or goods but don't fill out any tax returns re Vat. Most people in the UK do not fill out an annual tax return because they are paid under the PAYE system. Here in the UK, vat is not charged on most foods or children's clothes. This links to various goods and services and the rates that apply. It can become quite complicated. www.gov.uk/guidance/rates-of-vat-on-different-goods-and-servicesThere was a famous case regarding Jaffa cakes as to whether they were cakes or biscuits, the company went to a tribunal with the tax office because the different classification attracted a different vat rate. www.gov.uk/hmrc-internal-manuals/vat-food/vfood6260Vat probably looks an easy tax to apply but behind the scenes in businesses and tax offices around the country it is a lot of work.
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