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Post by ktdoesntscrap on Jul 4, 2014 16:18:30 GMT
Health care decisions should be made my individuals and medical professionals. Not Supreme Court Justices and Corporations! Nobody is forcing you into a healthcare decision. You decide for yourself. What you don't get to decide is who pays for it, unless it is your own money. You control your own money. They control theirs. You don't get to control their money.Right... I understand. So you are saying this decision allows ME as individual, or as a corporation, to decide where my money is spent. So I can tell the IRS, I don't want to pay for say Defense (it is where the largest portion of our taxes go). My religion is one of peace. If I control my own money, and Peace is a closely held religious belief, then I shouldn't have to pay taxes for the Defense department.
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Post by ktdoesntscrap on Jul 4, 2014 16:20:11 GMT
I can not wait for the first Muslim corporation to seek an exemption and watch people to scramble to come up with some bogus reason why the Christians should get it but the Muslims don't! Health care decisions should be made my individuals and medical professionals. Not Supreme Court Justices and Corporations! If you expect corporations to be out of your health care decisions, you should also stop expecting them to pay for it. I don't expect a corporation to pay for it. I expect them to adhere to the law of the land, and not get religious exemptions because corporations can not practice religion! Bazinga!
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Post by traceys on Jul 4, 2014 16:24:00 GMT
And the converse is also true; want to take birth control? Pay for it. Easy-peasy. That's personal responsibility for your own sexual choices; not forcing someone whose religious beliefs are against it to pay for your choices. This keeps everyone's rights in tact; the right of the person to follow their religious beliefs and the right of the individual to choose birth control. There is no right to have someone "pay" for the latter. I have no problem with this decision. But then, I am one who believes that all personal decisions and consequences of sex should be paid for by the individuals who are making the choice. It's not always about sex. BC can be used for a wide variety of medical issues. Yes...and back in the day when it wasn't covered for contraceptive purposes, it WAS covered when being used to treat a medical issue.
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~Lauren~
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 3,876
Jun 26, 2014 3:33:18 GMT
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Post by ~Lauren~ on Jul 4, 2014 16:24:17 GMT
Oh please, just about every major corporation, not to mention unions, got a grace-and-favor exemption from Obama.
Now the Supreme Court has spoken, hence *it* is now the law of the land.
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limapea2
Shy Member
Posts: 43
Jul 2, 2014 14:50:48 GMT
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Post by limapea2 on Jul 4, 2014 16:25:30 GMT
Have faith in the free market economy. The smartest, most progressive will rise to the top as they have in this country for centuries. People will no longer patronize establishments that allow their religious beliefs to trump their economic ones. We are not becoming a more religious country. The number of people who actually go to church gets lower every year. Most Americans understand the concept of the division between church and state, the religious right is not gaining. Look at the Tea Party and the Republican party, they are going down in flames. Americans are too self-serving to let religious groups dictate their behavior.
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Deleted
Posts: 0
May 16, 2024 0:20:34 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Jul 4, 2014 16:28:02 GMT
Oh please, just about every major corporation, not to mention unions, got a grace-and-favor exemption from Obama. Now the Supreme Court has spoken, hence *it* is now the law of the land. Exactly. It's easy to overlook all of the exemptions this administration has granted it's BFF's...including unions. Now that the SC has granted this exemption to HL, and a religious exemption to boot...we see heads exploding.
Exemptions are ok...until a group you don't like gets one.
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Post by gardengoddess on Jul 4, 2014 16:30:59 GMT
I can not wait for the first Muslim corporation to seek an exemption and watch people to scramble to come up with some bogus reason why the Christians should get it but the Muslims don't! Health care decisions should be made my individuals and medical professionals. Not Supreme Court Justices and Corporations! This is how I feel too. I also read that Hobby Lobby actually covered the types of birth control that they went to the SCOTUS about and only when some Christian organizations started to pressure them, that they decided they had a problem with it. As I said before, between this and the fact that they support the economy of the worst forced birth control in the world makes me think their beliefs really aren't very credible.
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Deleted
Posts: 0
May 16, 2024 0:20:34 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Jul 4, 2014 16:31:01 GMT
Nobody is forcing you into a healthcare decision. You decide for yourself. What you don't get to decide is who pays for it, unless it is your own money. You control your own money. They control theirs. You don't get to control their money. Right... I understand. So you are saying this decision allows ME as individual, or as a corporation, to decide where my money is spent. So I can tell the IRS, I don't want to pay for say Defense (it is where the largest portion of our taxes go). My religion is one of peace. If I control my own money, and Peace is a closely held religious belief, then I shouldn't have to pay taxes for the Defense department. If you took your personal exemption on your annual tax filing, you could consider that your "defense" refund.
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Deleted
Posts: 0
May 16, 2024 0:20:34 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Jul 4, 2014 16:34:23 GMT
If you expect corporations to be out of your health care decisions, you should also stop expecting them to pay for it. I don't expect a corporation to pay for it. I expect them to adhere to the law of the land, and not get religious exemptions because corporations can not practice religion! Bazinga! The thing is...this "law of the land" you speak of, has been changed by Obama and his magic pen countless times, without congressional approval. Did you feel as strongly about adhering to the "law of the land" as Obama made exemption after exemption to this "law of the land"? Now that the SC has spoken, this IS the "law of the land". I don't always agree with the SC, but I'd much rather have them hash out an issue and write their opinions than having a President with his magic phone and pen scribbling changes as he sees fit to suit his supporters. Any day.
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AmeliaBloomer
Drama Llama
Posts: 6,842
Location: USA
Jun 26, 2014 5:01:45 GMT
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Post by AmeliaBloomer on Jul 4, 2014 16:48:59 GMT
Using an insurance-based discount on your birth control pills at the pharmacy is not an indication that you have received no guidance or modeling about personal responsibility.
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craftchickapowpow
Full Member
My Circus My Monkeys
Posts: 206
Jun 26, 2014 16:12:18 GMT
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Post by craftchickapowpow on Jul 4, 2014 17:15:20 GMT
:blush:sorry Lucy, I didn't see this thread and did a dup above. Off to delete mine.
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tracylynn
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 4,864
Jun 26, 2014 22:49:09 GMT
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Post by tracylynn on Jul 4, 2014 17:24:29 GMT
Yes, that's true, but the vast majority of users use it to engage in sex. Again, the exception should not dictate the rule. That's just not true Lauren. 58% of BC users site other health reasons for using the pill other than for simple birth control. Link
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~Lauren~
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 3,876
Jun 26, 2014 3:33:18 GMT
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Post by ~Lauren~ on Jul 4, 2014 17:30:06 GMT
I'll do some research later, but I will not attribute any credibility to the Huffington Post.
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limapea2
Shy Member
Posts: 43
Jul 2, 2014 14:50:48 GMT
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Post by limapea2 on Jul 4, 2014 17:33:38 GMT
Stick with FOX, Lauren, it's more your speed. Real journalists contribute to huff post, obviously that would tax your system.
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Post by mightyme on Jul 4, 2014 17:35:17 GMT
Health care decisions should be made my individuals and medical professionals. Not Supreme Court Justices and Corporations! Nobody is forcing you into a healthcare decision. You decide for yourself. What you don't get to decide is who pays for it, unless it is your own money. You control your own money. They control theirs. You don't get to control their money.Exactly!
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Post by lucyg on Jul 4, 2014 17:36:19 GMT
:blush:sorry Lucy, I didn't see this thread and did a dup above. Off to delete mine. No big. Gave me the opportunity to poke you a little. And to all the rest of you ... I was expecting to be beaten all to hell when I came back this morning. I was really half-asleep when I posted the OP last night and wasn't even sure if it made any sense. So thanks for leaving me out of it.
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Deleted
Posts: 0
May 16, 2024 0:20:34 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Jul 4, 2014 17:44:51 GMT
I hesitate to get involved with this thread for a number of reasons, but I do have a question:
How can a CORPORATION hold religious beliefs? There are so many people involved with such a large corporation that I am unclear on how they can claim one single religious belief. Are they implying that every single person involved with the corporate side of Hobby Lobby holds the exact same religious views as each other? That seems like quite a stretch to me.
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~Lauren~
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 3,876
Jun 26, 2014 3:33:18 GMT
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Post by ~Lauren~ on Jul 4, 2014 18:12:16 GMT
Stick with FOX, Lauren, it's more your speed. Real journalists contribute to huff post, obviously that would tax your system. And the personal attacks begin. LOL
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jayfab
Drama Llama
procastinating
Posts: 5,521
Member is Online
Jun 26, 2014 21:55:15 GMT
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Post by jayfab on Jul 4, 2014 18:16:33 GMT
Rainbow, I completely disagree with you. Don't believe in birth control? Don't take it. Easy-peasy. That's freedom of religion. Deciding what's right and wrong for other people is NOT freedom of religion, it's exactly the opposite. And it disgusts me. 10 thumbs up. I agree!
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Post by moveablefeast on Jul 4, 2014 18:18:48 GMT
I don't know - I think it's reasonable to expect that my health insurance, which is part of my earned compensation, should pay for medication prescribed to me by my doctor.
What I lawfully do with my earned compensation is little of my employer's concern.
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Deleted
Posts: 0
May 16, 2024 0:20:34 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Jul 4, 2014 18:19:56 GMT
I think that the HL decision is going to prove to only be the start of a very long series of decisions that elevate a group's personal beliefs over womens' heathcare. I'm surprised this happened so quickly, but not surprised it happened. I find it disturbing that people think it's ok for the government to elevate women's elective health care over the deeply held religious beliefs of other private citizens. Your WANT does not trump my RIGHT. Birth control is a want. And it's cheap. Religious freedom is a right, and it cost many many people very dearly over the last few centuries. You cheapen it when you declare that your right to have sex without taking responsibility for your own health is more important than anyone else's right to believe that life begins at conception. If you choose to go to that college or work at HL, then you have already exercised your right to choose. The government had no business forcing this entire mess on us in the first place.
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Rainbow
Pearl Clutcher
Where salt is in the air and sand is at my feet...
Posts: 4,103
Jun 26, 2014 5:57:41 GMT
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Post by Rainbow on Jul 4, 2014 18:24:34 GMT
Nobody is forcing you into a healthcare decision. You decide for yourself. What you don't get to decide is who pays for it, unless it is your own money. You control your own money. They control theirs. You don't get to control their money. Right... I understand. So you are saying this decision allows ME as individual, or as a corporation, to decide where my money is spent. So I can tell the IRS, I don't want to pay for say Defense (it is where the largest portion of our taxes go). My religion is one of peace. If I control my own money, and Peace is a closely held religious belief, then I shouldn't have to pay taxes for the Defense department. You'll have to take that up with the IRS. If they agree with you, hey go for it.
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Rainbow
Pearl Clutcher
Where salt is in the air and sand is at my feet...
Posts: 4,103
Jun 26, 2014 5:57:41 GMT
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Post by Rainbow on Jul 4, 2014 18:27:29 GMT
Using an insurance-based discount on your birth control pills at the pharmacy is not an indication that you have received no guidance or modeling about personal responsibility.
If what they want isn't covered I expect them to either find another way or simply accept it. A foot-stomping tantrum - not so much.
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Deleted
Posts: 0
May 16, 2024 0:20:34 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Jul 4, 2014 18:28:03 GMT
Have faith in the free market economy. The smartest, most progressive will rise to the top as they have in this country for centuries. People will no longer patronize establishments that allow their religious beliefs to trump their economic ones. We are not becoming a more religious country. The number of people who actually go to church gets lower every year. Most Americans understand the concept of the division between church and state, the religious right is not gaining. Look at the Tea Party and the Republican party, they are going down in flames. Americans are too self-serving to let religious groups dictate their behavior. Wow. Now I have seen it all. For years, we have been told how terrible the free market is, because so many evil capitalists put their economic beliefs before their moral obligations. Now you are thrilled because corporations are being forced to put their economic beliefs over their religious beliefs. Which way do you hypocrites want it? Corporations are people. They are a legal entity set up by actual human beings on order to conduct business. The beliefs of the people running that business should be no business of the damn government or whinny harpies who think they are owed free crap based upon their gender.
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limapea2
Shy Member
Posts: 43
Jul 2, 2014 14:50:48 GMT
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Post by limapea2 on Jul 4, 2014 18:30:03 GMT
Remind me again who just tried to discredit huff post, Lauren. Was that a personal attack on the person you were responding to or not, and their credibility as far as sources of information? I realize in your legal eagle career that the slippery insinuation is par for the course, but I shoot straight. Most people can tell when you're making a dig at them, Lauren. You're no Supreme Court justice material. Causation, Lauren.
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Rainbow
Pearl Clutcher
Where salt is in the air and sand is at my feet...
Posts: 4,103
Jun 26, 2014 5:57:41 GMT
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Post by Rainbow on Jul 4, 2014 18:31:27 GMT
Have faith in the free market economy. The smartest, most progressive will rise to the top as they have in this country for centuries. People will no longer patronize establishments that allow their religious beliefs to trump their economic ones. We are not becoming a more religious country. The number of people who actually go to church gets lower every year. Most Americans understand the concept of the division between church and state, the religious right is not gaining. Look at the Tea Party and the Republican party, they are going down in flames. Americans are too self-serving to let religious groups dictate their behavior. I wondered how long it would take for someone to play the numbers card. "There are more of us than there are of you! So there!" Might doesn't make right. This time the little guy wins. Thank God. People other than liberals have rights too! Imagine that!
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Rainbow
Pearl Clutcher
Where salt is in the air and sand is at my feet...
Posts: 4,103
Jun 26, 2014 5:57:41 GMT
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Post by Rainbow on Jul 4, 2014 18:33:48 GMT
I can not wait for the first Muslim corporation to seek an exemption and watch people to scramble to come up with some bogus reason why the Christians should get it but the Muslims don't! Health care decisions should be made my individuals and medical professionals. Not Supreme Court Justices and Corporations! This is how I feel too. I also read that Hobby Lobby actually covered the types of birth control that they went to the SCOTUS about and only when some Christian organizations started to pressure them, that they decided they had a problem with it. As I said before, between this and the fact that they support the economy of the worst forced birth control in the world makes me think their beliefs really aren't very credible. Which lefty website has that info?
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~Lauren~
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 3,876
Jun 26, 2014 3:33:18 GMT
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Post by ~Lauren~ on Jul 4, 2014 18:34:58 GMT
So touts a card holding member of the Toleratti. LOL Have a Happy 4th, Lima.
Traceylyn, just for curiosity's sake; did you consider my comment to be an attack on you? Or on the Huff post? In my opinion, any rational person would view it as not holding the Huff Post in high regard.
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Post by I-95 on Jul 4, 2014 18:36:43 GMT
And if corporations can meddle in the private lives of employees, then let's lift the corporate veil and make the owners personally responsible for everything their corporations do. Let the next person who trips over a box some HL employee left in the aisle....let the suit name the Green family personally and go after their assets too.
Incidentally, does anyone know if HL pays 100% of their employee insurance, or do they pay part and the employee pay part? This has probably been addressed somewhere else but I apparently missed it. I really don't know of many corps that pay 100%.
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Post by Kymberlee on Jul 4, 2014 18:38:53 GMT
GaJenny, get out of my head!
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