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Post by FuzzyMutt on Aug 7, 2023 0:57:20 GMT
When our dd comes home from college during the summer, breaks and sometimes weekends we tend to have slight problems with her cat and our cat. The vet recommended we try Feliway multi cat diffuser. It was delivered today and I am hoping it helps. It is suppose to release pheromones that mother cats emit after birthing that promotes harmony so it helps calm them down. Years ago, my daughter went to visit her mother for an extended period of time (it wasn't supposed to be- but that's a different story...) and when she came home, our cat started peeing in her bed! We kept him out of her room for a few months, and gradually let him back in after a ton of cleaning and interaction with her outside of that room. Oddly, he slept in bed with her before she left. I hear you OP, cat urine is no small thing to deal with. But I definitely agree with multi litter boxes and minimizing their need to acknowledge one another, I don't know anything about the meds and stuff (my cat issue was was before that was mainstream) but some of it sounds super helpful. Please don't put a cat that can't defend itself outside. Also, are both cats spayed or neutered? If Tigger isn't neutered, that's the low hanging fruit here (pun intended Hahaha) Good luck!
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Post by FuzzyMutt on Aug 7, 2023 0:59:39 GMT
Declawed cats very often have issues using the litterbox, it hurts their paws because they've been mutilated. I'm trying hard not to be a bitch here but FFS, why is declawing still a thing? You know, you bring up a REALLY GOOD POINT!! OP, have you changed litters? This is a really well known issue for declawed cats. ETA: Engineer here..... But I'm the kind of engineer that researches and looks for solutions to problems. And the last solution (to me) is to put an animal to sleep needlessly. And that's just Tigger- I can't even imagine not working out a way to help Coconut bounce back from this mess that was made for her. Being an engineer isn't an excuse for being cold, or uncaring. I feel for you with soooooo much on your plate. I hope you can start breathing a little easier soon, literally and figuratively. It must be overwhelming. Luckily for most humans, spraying isn't the answer to being overwhelmed. But for cats, sadly, it can be. Obviously, given the efforts you put into your children with special needs, you are a caring person. But man, there are some hot buttons in this situation. Vet for UTI Check Ask vet about mood stabilizers Ask vet about recommended litters for declawed cats. Separate the cats... I could only imagine that would help and you could work on reintegrating. Your husband sounds like a great resource to try to come up with a plan. We engineers love to make a plan! Separation will also allow you to determine if Coconut is messing, and mayyyyyybe keep her from devolving behavior.
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Post by angel97701 on Aug 7, 2023 1:13:19 GMT
Please don't put a cat that can't defend itself outside. Also, are both cats spayed or neutered? If Tigger isn't neutered, that's the low hanging fruit here (pun intended Hahaha) Good luck! Tigger is neutered, Coconut is spayed. FYI, Tigger enjoys forays outside and has been doing it for years. In laws would often accidentally temporarily let him outside. When he wants back in he comes to the door.
You know, you bring up a REALLY GOOD POINT!! OP, have you changed litters? This is a really well known issue for declawed cats.
No change in litter. I use Pretty Litter and it is recommended for declawed kitties. Tigger now prefers the food I purchase for Coconut, they both have their own bowls in different areas.
DS17 has agreed to have Tigger in his room, with food and litter box.
Time to watch more videos.
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Post by Laurie on Aug 7, 2023 1:44:32 GMT
I would really check for a uti. Stress can lead to uti’s. We had a cat that never had a problem using the litter box. We went on a 10 day vacation and when we came back she started not using the litter box. Took her to the vet and they tested her for a uti. Our vet said ot was most likely due to the stress of us being gone.
“ While FLUTD can occur at any age, it is usually seen in middle-aged, overweight cats that get little exercise, use an indoor litter box, have little or no outdoor access, or eat a dry diet. Factors such as emotional or environment stress, multi-cat households, and abrupt changes in daily routine may also increase the risk that a cat will develop FLUTD.”
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Post by birukitty on Aug 7, 2023 19:31:47 GMT
So for all of you judgy judgy folks. We have been trying for 5 weeks to correct this behavior with little succes. pantsonfire birukitty Please take your judgemental comments elsewhere. Do you really think that they are helpful? Or are you on a mission to hurt and spread shame?
Are you willing to help and step up and take poor Tigger?
I was not the one who had him de-clawed! MIL was. I was the one to keep him from a high kill shelter. I am trying to do what is best for our entire family!
FYI this is just one of many stressors of the move for me. An adult DS24 with special needs who just started his good first job at 24 after being a homeless drug addict for 3.5 years. . . still lacks social skills. So far job is going well. But very difficult to live with at time "bipolar" comes to mind.
DS17 who is also special needs and needs qualification in a new state for Intellectual and Development Disabilities, also at the SS Federal level as he will be 18 soon. I can't even explain the 40+ hours of phone calls that has been. Enrollment in a new school district, having to provide his IEP myself as his old district has not sent it yet. Even to get him a new doctor in our new town . . . I can't make an appointment for me to go in without him b/c he prefers that I not talk about his disability in front of him, I was denied. We moved to get both sons out of our drug-culture infested state. To give them a new start.
It's not been easy. Our original home has not sold, neither has a seasonal cabin thanks the the current economics of this nation. Finances are very tight. I left my entire family behind, but we are closer to DH's family In-laws moved to same state, as we would not be there to help them. We lived 2 miles away for the last 25 years.
My own recent medical diagnosis. My own smoke allergies are flaring due to the current AQI so physically not feeling well, and spending days inside.
KNOW THAT I AM ALREADY FEELING HORRIBLE ABOUT THIS ENTIRE CAT SITUATION. SO COMMENTING WITH JUDGMENTAL REMARKS IS NOT HELPFUL!!!!
NOTICE MY Title SAYS NEED HELP. THE COMMENTS ABOUT ACCLIMATION, TWO LITTER BOXES, A WEBSITE TO VISIT, ETC WERE HELPFUL. Thank you to you kind peas!
I posted the link to my local shelter as they also mentioned it is hard on an animal to leave them in a shelter only to have them euthanized anyway. I had already visited their website before I came asking for positive advice.
For what it's worth we lost our dear Athena dog just over 2 months ago due to twisted stomach, rather than let her suffer more we choose euthanasia in the middle of the night 1700 miles from our original home as we closed on the new home the same day she passed. She is the only dog I've ever owned from the moment of her first breath to her last! She was one of the puppies that we bred as AKC papered GSD puppies.
We are also currently caring for our very senior 13 year-old male German Shepherd. I am getting up in the middle of the night to make sure he can relieve himself. He has several accidents in the home as well. There will be a time when he will with all kindness be euthanized with us by his side, just like Athena and Sable last fall.
I am an animal lover but also a realist that is married to an engineer.
All that to say IF YOU CAN'T SAY SOMETHING HELPFUL OR ENCOURAGING, MOVE ON TO ANOTHER THREAD!
I am not on a mission to spread hurt and shame. That is not how I operate. My first post to this thread was full of helpful advice. But then you posted several paragraphs from your local "low kill" shelter website that says any pet over the age of 10 is never adopted, how they suffer at the shelter and how they advise euthanizing these pets. You were basically giving your reasons to put euthanize Tigger now as if you wanted us to agree with you. This plus the fact that you want to put a declawed cat outdoors to fend for himself is what prompted me to post my reply in the way that I did. I have loved cats from the age of 1 when I met my first cat at my grandmother's house. I didn't get a cat until I was 8 years old. Since then I have lived with a cat my entire life-55 years. I love animals. So much that I stopped eating them 9 years ago, and believe all animals have sentience. I believe that when we adopt animals it is for life. Their lives are our responsibility. I mentioned that I have a Traditional Siamese cat. He is my second of this breed. Biru was my first. When he was 4 years old we adopted a kitten from the shelter as a companion for him. Big mistake! I didn't realize how tightly this breed bonds with their family and how strongly they prefer to be only cats unless they are raised as kittens with another kitten. Biru proceed to spray and ruin a Natuzzi (Italian) leather sofa and loveseat and a mid century teak dining table and 2 chairs. We are a one income family and this was a huge cost for us to replace-in fact we still haven't replaced the dining table-I just cover it with a tablecloth (I did scrub it repeatedly). We replaced the leather sofa and loveseat with a used one we found locally. It didn't once enter my mind to get rid of either cat. Not once. Not even an inkling. We separated them as advised on this thread and slowly reintroduced to each other. They eventually made peace and lived together just fine until they died-James at the age of 17 of stomach cancer and Biru at the age of 18 of a blood clot. We all have difficulties in life. I have chronic migraines and a son with severe ADHD/chronic depression who still lives at home. If it were me I'd at least try to find a solution to help poor Tigger. It won't be easy, it won't happen overnight, but I'd at least try. Euthanasia is an easy, fast solution.
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Post by maryland on Aug 7, 2023 22:41:20 GMT
From our local animal low-kill shelter website: If your cat or dog is a senior, please do not think they are going to do well in a shelter. These animals have been loved and in a home from the time they were a baby until the time an owner decides to no longer keep them. HART gets calls from people who want to surrender an elderly pet (10 years and up) because they have decided to travel or are moving to an apartment, and various other reasons, and no longer want this pet. This type of surrender will curl up and physically shut down in a shelter. No matter how hard we try to make its life comfortable we can’t. And no one is going to adopt an animal of this age, because unfortunately these animals have health problems such as kidney diseases, bad teeth, joint problems and the list goes on. The owner wants to be assured that their loved pet will find a good home. How can we tell them yes, when they no longer want the pet because it has become an inconvenience for them? It is a tough to find someone who will take this pet on. It can be expensive and also heartbreaking to adopt an old pet. Have the courage to euthanize this pet. Behaviors that HART cannot accept are: Aggression which includes biting, being cage aggressive, attacking other dogs or cats, and destruction of the house. Having a cat that does not use a litter box is another call we receive on a regular bases. This behavior could have a medical reason or it may be behavioral. Healthy cats and kittens that use a litter box can be hard to find good homes for, ones that have bathroom issues are next to impossible.
Looking at 2nd litter boxes. But DH is really opposed to keeping Tigger.
I'm sorry for your situation, that sounds difficult. We are working with our dog on his marking in the house. We have a behavior consult with the vet and need to find a new trainer (ours went on medical leave). But I wanted to let you know that my daughter adopted an 8 yr old cat a couple years ago and it's doing so well! She asked to see cats that are having trouble getting adopted. So there are many out there that are willing to adopt an older cat.
I hope you can figure out a solution that benefits the cats and your family.
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Post by angel97701 on Aug 8, 2023 2:15:58 GMT
I've been binge watching Jackson Galaxy. The hardest part is getting DH, and the rest of the family on board . . . the understanding that they must be separated, and more catification should occur in our new home. Previous home had natural catification. Tigger's home had a cat tower and other aspects that met his territorial needs. (Previous home was 1500 sq ft bigger than our retirement home.)
In this there is not natural barriers (doors) between sections of the home where we can keep them separate. Putting in a dog/baby gate is in the plans . . . but all of these things take $$$ and with our current situation paying our mortgages, buying groceries take precedence. DS17 (FASD effected) has been told 3 times that IF Tigger is in the house, Tigger must be in his room and supervised. He cannot be left alone without his bedroom door open!
The process of moving has caused many changes, and unfortunately not everything has made the move yet. As I've mentioned we still own a home 1700 miles (2700 km) away. It has been a financial hardship due to a number of issues I am not at liberty to share. But we know that we made the right decision for our SONS, who have priority over the cats. Keeping them drug-free and giving them a fresh start away from the drug acceptance and culture of our previous state was our driving force to initiate the move. I loved our previous home and all it's amenities. In some ways I still feel like we are glamping in our new home.
birukitty Euthanasia is absolutely my last choice but I am not the only one making this decision. I also believe we should have pets for their lifetimes. One of the reason I am still upset with MIL for abandoning Tigger. I was trying to do the right thing. I posted the info from the local shelter not to justify but to show the information I had at hand. HART personal surrenders Trying to do my research and this is what I found, so I asked Peas for help, and many things have been very helpful. I did not have my mind made up to do so, however I cannot say that is the case for my very pragmatic engineer husband.
As for my personal health the smoke issues cause sore throat, sore ear canals, raspy voice, runny nose, sneezing, fatigue, body aches, headaches, and nausea . . . the full meal deal--like I have the flu. We are on our third round this summer and moving from the west coast. I had hoped I could avoid smoke, but no! Last summer not a sign of smoke in this area when we visited and choose this as our new area to buy. I have other allergies and food intolerance. I am seeing a new health practitioner to address these issues, but meanwhile . . . the worry and stress of everything else doesn't help and exacerbates my health condition. I can't even go outside and enjoy the beauty of around our new home.
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Post by lainey on Aug 8, 2023 13:45:42 GMT
I honestly wouldn't bother with a baby gate, cats will jump straight over it.
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Post by angel97701 on Aug 9, 2023 1:10:16 GMT
I honestly wouldn't bother with a baby gate, cats will jump straight over it. Thinking modified like the one shown in the video that was linked for me.
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Post by angel97701 on Aug 10, 2023 12:20:41 GMT
Working towards a solution and DH and DS17 are not sure that things will work out. I am really against losing both kitties, even if some of you have believed otherwise.
Upstairs cat, Coconut has her litter box and was introduced last night . . . but pooped and most likely peed downstairs to continue to assert her territory. Working on more catification for her. What to build a custom cat tree from some of the branches in the local woods (after treating them of course).
Bought small used cat tree and cleaned thoroughly, plus litter box for DS17 to have in his room for Tigger. Don't know the results as both are still asleep.
Also found cat screens on Amazon that won't break the bank.
Waiting on some major financial changes to happen before I can take both to the vet.
Finally finished and sent off the 12 page application and 150 pages of supporting documents to the state for his disabled child assessment.
Now focused on helping DH settle the sale on his Intellectual property (our retirement funds.) Probably more that you care to know about but a huge part of why the entire cat problem is so overwhelming. DH is NOT HAPPY about either cat. I'm trying to save them.
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RosieKat
Drama Llama
PeaJect #12
Posts: 5,398
Jun 25, 2014 19:28:04 GMT
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Post by RosieKat on Aug 10, 2023 13:03:40 GMT
When we got Cleo, she was already 4 and it turned out she was a very grumpy cat who only really liked me. I had little kids in the house who wanted to love on the kitty, so we ended up getting another cat. She was 2, and her name in the shelter was Love-a-Lot, because every animal and person there loved her and she loved them. Bet you see where this is going. Yeah, every single living being on the planet loved her except Cleo.
They had both been shelter kitties, were adults, used to being around other cats and people, sharing litter boxes and food bowls, living in stressful situations. But sharing her nice home with another cat was too much for Cleo. Lots of problems like you're talking about. (PS, Nature's Own was, I think, the name of the cleaning stuff that seemed to work best for us.)
They gradually reached a detente where Cleo "owned" my bedroom and Layla (Love-a-Lot's new name) got the rest of the house. Cleo had free passage to the litter box and the food, as well as shared custody of the Christmas tree that they both loved. I don't know how they reached this agreement, but they did. I think the key was them both having a safe space, like you're doing with the cats now. And while I do not recommend this approach as it's totally a crapshoot with another life, we rescued a kitten later on and he was somehow the magic that made them all friends. Cleo decided he was her baby, while Layla had her playmate and cuddlebug. Somehow it made Cleo and Layla actually get along. They were never besties, but they tolerated each other just fine. (Again, NOT saying you should get a kitten, just saying that perseverance and the strangest things may be what help.)
And I know that you are trying to do all you can, and also that it's not 100% in your control. Keep doing the very best you can. I would say that if it comes to an absolute ultimatum and you absolutely have no more time, rehome him or take him to the rescue and at least give him a chance.
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Post by alsomsknit on Aug 10, 2023 13:21:41 GMT
Have you had Tigger seen at the vet, yet? Suggest they check his paws. If any of the claw material was left during the procedure, it can regrow claws. Only they can do some major damage because they grow back very badly. If he is dealing with paw pain, he may avoid the litter box.
I understand your frustration. The litter box situation is a priority in our house—scooping, cleaning. I will not change to a different litter for fear either cat will decide to refuse the litter box.
Hope you are able to find a good solution. Rescues will likely be too overwhelmed right now, though. They are struggling with kittens. You certainly have an over abundance on your plate.
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jeanninem
Junior Member
Posts: 97
Jun 27, 2014 0:33:42 GMT
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Post by jeanninem on Aug 10, 2023 19:55:49 GMT
I will just share my experience. You have received some very good information, so this might be redundant.
We adopted two brothers, both 2 years old cats, into our home that already had one male and one female cat (and an old dog). Our resident cats had already easily adopted a young male cat 2 years before, but he died suddenly of heart failure. I naively thought that all cat introductions would go as smoothly. I was wrong. We isolated the new cats in an upstairs bedroom for weeks - then they had full run of the upstairs. We did all the right things before introducing the cats, although they were obviously aware of each other: scent swapping, swapping locations, gates, eating food on either side of a door or a gate and then gradual exposure. It was awful. I never knew what a cat fight sounded like until then. Fur flying, chasing, screeching - it was terrible. And the resident male started peeing on the furniture, pillows and blankets.
We went back to square one and separated them again - this time with a solid barrier - a large piece of particle board that was ugly but effective. I reached out to a rescue organization and they suggested to eventually place the two new cats in a large dog crate and leave them downstairs in our living space. Everyone could observe everyone from a distance and safely. Then my Dh built a cage worthy of a serial killer. In the middle of the house. It was huge and would hold 15 people. We lived like that for one year. I feel like an idiot when I type that out but I really had to figure out a way to make this work. It's been three years and everyone is good together. It's consistent slow progress.
We also continue to do the following: - I have 5 litter boxes - I read that you should have one for every cat +1 extra. Plus if they are peeing in the same places - place a litter box where they pee. - Feliway - both Classic and Multi-cat - Male resident cat that started peeing is on Prozac and it helps - Angry Orange Pet Odor Eliminator - Rocco & Roxie Professional Strength Odor Eliminator with Enzymes - Bissell Spot Clean Pet Pro Carpet Cleaner - I have thrown out blankets, pillows, rugs, etc that he used to pee on because Prozac wasn't overnight and he would still pee on our bed if we let him upstairs - he is definitely sending a message - We still separate them at times if someone is being disagreeable
Someone said 5 weeks isn't long for a cat and that's very true!!! And while you couldn't help all the changes - the cats don't care how sorry you are! They aren't happy and are telling you so! It's all about being slow, consistent and patient - not easy, I know. You are trying very hard in the face of lots of adversity. So take the time to read up, formulate a plan, be consistent and give yourself a break.
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caangel
Drama Llama
Posts: 5,461
Location: So Cal
Jun 26, 2014 16:42:12 GMT
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Post by caangel on Aug 11, 2023 1:11:16 GMT
I've never had a car, but entertain the idea frequently as a good friend fosters kittens and hers end up being awesome dog like cats. I have several friends that got their kittens from her.
But then I read the reality of having a cat and I think I'll stick with dogs who I can more easily contain. (Our dogs have never been allowed upstairs nor on furniture.)
Op I wish you luck!
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Post by angel97701 on Aug 12, 2023 0:40:48 GMT
Coconut now has upstairs territory and is blocked from going downstairs. She is successfully acclimated to her litter box upstairs. Tigger is indoors at night (at his request) and outdoors during the day. He's even caught a mouse! Finances will now allow vet visits to occur for both kitties, and both doggos. Hopefully Coconut will get her custom built cat tree this weekend. I've assigned DS24 to help out. Next is HOW do I get the stench out of the carpet in the basement room? Our Bissell Spot Clean Pet Pro Carpet Cleaner is still in Oregon . . . along with about 20% of our other household goods. jeanninemDon't know that the home depot rental will help or hurt.
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Post by jackietex on Aug 12, 2023 1:12:50 GMT
I use Furry Freshness on pet stains. Last year I had a dog with bladder cancer and a UTI, and my downstairs looked like a murder scene, and Furry Freshness worked miracles. I've used it on gold, green, and ivory colored carpets with no discoloration. Furry Freshness
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FurryP
Drama Llama
To pea or not to pea...
Posts: 6,975
Site Supporter
Jun 26, 2014 19:58:26 GMT
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Post by FurryP on Aug 12, 2023 3:46:07 GMT
Don't know that the home depot rental will help or hurt. Don't know if it will help or hurt either, but if you happen to also have a Lowes nearby, they rent Bissells. I had great success cleaning a heavy soiled carpet. Maybe that would work better? I would go with them again, even if the Home Depot is closer to my house.
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Post by sleepingbooty on Aug 12, 2023 19:10:59 GMT
angel97701 Thank you for the update and all the work you're doing! I can imagine how difficult it is with two other people in your home not feeling optimistic with the situation but you've already got a few victories under your belt (and you're becoming a master at catifying your home, it seems). It takes a lot of time, patience and bonding to get to a more or less peaceful cohabitation. But every little step along the way is a milestone of its own. I understand Tigger's presence feels like so many steps backwards that it's well below zero since Coconut is exhibiting negative behaviour she didn't before. I also understand how much heavier the stress of trying to resolve this hostility within the home is due to your family circumstances. I just want you to know I extra appreciate everything you're doing right now. Tigger doesn't realise you're trying to save his life but I do. Thank you for trying so hard despite how your family feels about the situation and all the other things you're dealing with. I'll let Americans help you with the urinated carpet issue as I'm of no help whatsoever (no carpet at my parents' and different cleaning products over here anyway). Scritches to both Coconut and Tigger. I hope you'll keep us in the loop and show off Coconut's new custom cat tree! Very excited to see her freshly catified space.
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Post by angel97701 on Aug 13, 2023 4:28:49 GMT
Tigger wants in periodically and plays with DS17. He sleeps inside. He has a new cat tree. DS24 says he will build me a custom cat tree for Coconut. Looking at another litter box for her upstairs that is a little more private. Finances recently improved, so vet visits sometime next week. Can you believe it Pet smart rents Bissel cleaners! YEAH! With the cats separated the room is already smelling better. I am working on cleaning up. Then will start reintroduction at a later date once the next slew of house guests come through. DH's close friend and family 8/18-8-24 (yeah this will be fun!) In-laws (a lot more work to entertain and keep the grandpa happy by fishing) 8/23-8/28, then finally my Mom! 8/31-9/12, this will be a soul saver after the last few weeks that I have had. sleepingbooty thank you for your encouragement. It means the world to me!
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