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Post by monklady123 on Feb 23, 2024 20:38:55 GMT
The poll isn't worded right, in my opinion. "I am Christian...." and "I am Catholic..." are the same thing. Better would be to say "I am not Catholic... "Christian" is a very broad brush that includes all denominations. Christians are those who believe that Jesus was the Christ, and of course that includes Catholics. Honestly, I had never heard of anyone not believing Catholics are Christian until I saw it in a thread here some time ago. Now, there could certainly be wacky Christians who think Catholics or any other denomination are not "true Christians"... they might certainly believe that about my very-left-leaning Presbyterian church. We welcome everyone, have an open table, hold immigration workshops, collect for the local women and children shelter, etc. We try to follow the words of Jesus, as do many many other churches. The wacky ones, like that pastor in the other thread, no doubt think we're heretics with one foot in hell. As I said on that other thread, oh well. We don't mind.  |
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Post by Zee on Feb 23, 2024 20:53:38 GMT
Catholics were the OG "Christians" so it's really not up for debate. Anyone who says no is not a real Christian to me but rather one of those Born Again folks, but then again, I don't really care at all what they think about it.
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Post by katlady on Feb 23, 2024 23:01:09 GMT
"Christian" is a very broad brush that includes all denominations. Christians are those who believe that Jesus was the Christ, and of course that includes Catholics. Honestly, I had never heard of anyone not believing Catholics are Christian until I saw it in a thread here some time ago. Once in awhile I'll watch youTube videos of Christians and Atheists debating each other, and it has come up a number of times that some Christians do not think Catholics are Christians. |
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Post by wordyphotogbabe on Feb 24, 2024 0:30:20 GMT
Yes, they are. I don't agree with all of their rules and I won't go to Mass with my husband since I'm not "good enough" to take Communion (as a non-Catholic Christian) but they are very much Christians.
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Post by Ryann on Feb 24, 2024 0:52:09 GMT
My other reason for asking is I forced myself to watch Trump’s speech at the National Religious Broadcasters convention (holy crap on a cracker, let’s not go there 😄) and he mentioned the persecution of Catholics specifically. There was not as much reaction in the room as there was with so many of his other buzz word phrases and opinions. He also asked how many Catholics were there and he said oh there are a few. So they were not overly represented there and I was wondering why. My mother (and many other family members) is a pretty devout practicing anti Trump, DeSantis, Maga Catholic . I would say she probably has voted Republican more in her life than not. While not perfect, she is pretty accepting and open to those that believe differently than she does. However we do have some family members that love Trump. From the responses so far that makes me feel better that it isn’t a common belief. And as far as those identifying as a Christian but not actually living a Christian life…that is in any and all religions and denominations. The same with non religious people…there are many who identify as moral that really are not. Since it’s Trump speaking, it’s entirely possible he meant to say any other word than what he said. He speaks nonsense on the regular so I wouldn’t be at all surprised if he said Catholics while meaning crackers or concubines, etc. |
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Post by revirdsuba99 on Feb 24, 2024 2:01:20 GMT
monklady123 I also never heard that Catholics were not Christians before I heard it here on 2Peas.
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pilcas
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Post by pilcas on Feb 24, 2024 2:26:08 GMT
I wonder what the basis is for not considering Catholics Christians. The religion is largely based on the New Testament, we celebrate the birth, life and death of Christ and are taught to follow his teachings. What makes them Christians? Ultimately, just because they say something doesn't make them right. It seems to me it’s the typical religious concept of trying to say only they are the tru religion.
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Post by katlady on Feb 24, 2024 2:52:16 GMT
I wonder what the basis is for not considering Catholics Christians. The religion is largely based on the New Testament, we celebrate the birth, life and death of Christ and are taught to follow his teachings. What makes them Christians? Ultimately, just because they say something doesn't make them right. It seems to me it’s the typical religious concept of trying to say only they are the tru religion. Couple of reasons I’ve heard is that the Catholic Church believes in salvation through both good faith and works. Other Christian churches believe in salvation only through faith. Catholics also pray to saints, not to just God/Jesus. |
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Post by AussieMeg on Feb 24, 2024 3:21:27 GMT
I am an Atheist, and I consider Catholics to be Christian. I don't really understand religion or the differences between denominations, but in my (admittedly ignorant) brain, anyone who believes in God and Jesus is a Christian.
I know that my very religious non-denominational grandmother did NOT consider Catholics to be Christian. I have no idea why.
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Post by revirdsuba99 on Feb 24, 2024 3:24:28 GMT
I wonder what the basis is for not considering Catholics Christians. The religion is largely based on the New Testament, we celebrate the birth, life and death of Christ and are taught to follow his teachings. What makes them Christians? Ultimately, just because they say something doesn't make them right. It seems to me it’s the typical religious concept of trying to say only they are the tru religion. Couple of reasons I’ve heard is that the Catholic Church believes in salvation through both good faith and works. Other Christian churches believe in salvation only through faith. Catholics also pray to saints, not to just God/Jesus. I was just coming to post about the praying to saints. I think doing works is a good thing for everyone Christian or not, it just makes for GOOD people!! |
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Post by compeateropeator on Feb 24, 2024 11:06:48 GMT
I understand, but I guess my reasoning is I wanted to see how many of the Christians were Catholic that were answering.
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Post by monklady123 on Feb 24, 2024 11:09:43 GMT
Couple of reasons I’ve heard is that the Catholic Church believes in salvation through both good faith and works. Other Christian churches believe in salvation only through faith. Catholics also pray to saints, not to just God/Jesus. I was just coming to post about the praying to saints. I think doing works is a good thing for everyone Christian or not, it just makes for GOOD people!! I am not Catholic but it's my understanding that Catholics also believe people are saved by grace alone, just as the mainline Protestants do. The good works is in response to God's grace. The bottom-line distinction between a "Christian" and a "not-Christian" is the acceptance of Jesus as the Christ, the Son of God. Muslims and Jews "believe in" Jesus, i.e., they acknowledge that he was a real person, a prophet of the times. But they do not believe he was God's son. And of course Roman Catholics believe Jesus was the son of God. It just continues to amaze me that wackos out there would say otherwise.  |
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Post by guzismom on Feb 24, 2024 13:16:53 GMT
I’m a former Catholic and I think it depends on the individual. There are people I know who are definitely Catholics who claim to be Christians but their behavior definitely doesn’t reflect that. Couldn't this be said about people in any denomination? |
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Post by Prenticekid on Feb 24, 2024 16:30:55 GMT
How would they not be Christian? Christianity is a religion. Then there are a myriad of denominations. All with their different characteristics. It is not about how someone behaves. Aren’t all Christians sinners?!
The type of Christian that thinks they are somehow better than the Catholics is just as flawed as anything they think is flawed about Catholicism.
I was raised Fundamentalist Baptist and was taught that Catholics are bad. Thank goodness, I am not a moron and can figure things out. LOL. Like that Catholics do believe in Jesus Christ, so yeah, they are Christian.
I’m pretty laid back in my definition of Christian. (Belief in the Holy Trinity. Follow that up with baptism. However you get it done. That is an entire thread of its own, eh?) It is disturbing how other Christians like to knock each other. But I guess that is how we ended up with so many denominations.
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Post by busy on Feb 24, 2024 17:11:46 GMT
By definition, they are 🤷♀️
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Post by CarolinaGirl71 on Feb 24, 2024 17:57:12 GMT
I’m a former Catholic and I think it depends on the individual. There are people I know who are definitely Catholics who claim to be Christians but their behavior definitely doesn’t reflect that. Couldn't this be said about people in any denomination? I think this could be said of any denomination. I don't think all members of any denomination are Christian, it depends on the individual and what they believe. Romans 10:9 says If you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. I have heard it said that "standing in a garage doesn't make you a car, just like being in a church doesn't make you a Christian." It's what the individual believes that makes them a Christian. Good works should be the fruit of one's Christian's beliefs, but will not save anyone unless they also believe in Jesus. I am a Presbyterian. |
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Post by lucyg on Feb 24, 2024 18:18:42 GMT
I was just coming to post about the praying to saints. I think doing works is a good thing for everyone Christian or not, it just makes for GOOD people!! I am not Catholic but it's my understanding that Catholics also believe people are saved by grace alone, just as the mainline Protestants do. The good works is in response to God's grace. The bottom-line distinction between a "Christian" and a "not-Christian" is the acceptance of Jesus as the Christ, the Son of God. Muslims and Jews "believe in" Jesus, i.e., they acknowledge that he was a real person, a prophet of the times. But they do not believe he was God's son. And of course Roman Catholics believe Jesus was the son of God. It just continues to amaze me that wackos out there would say otherwise. Correction, Jews do not “believe in” Jesus in any way. I mean, individual Jews may or may not believe that Jesus ever existed. But Jesus is just not an issue in Judaism. As a group, we have no thoughts on the subject. Other than wishing that Christians would quit trying to convert us or kill us off. |
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Post by monklady123 on Feb 24, 2024 20:26:15 GMT
I am not Catholic but it's my understanding that Catholics also believe people are saved by grace alone, just as the mainline Protestants do. The good works is in response to God's grace. The bottom-line distinction between a "Christian" and a "not-Christian" is the acceptance of Jesus as the Christ, the Son of God. Muslims and Jews "believe in" Jesus, i.e., they acknowledge that he was a real person, a prophet of the times. But they do not believe he was God's son. And of course Roman Catholics believe Jesus was the son of God. It just continues to amaze me that wackos out there would say otherwise. Correction, Jews do not “believe in” Jesus in any way. I mean, individual Jews may or may not believe that Jesus ever existed. But Jesus is just not an issue in Judaism. As a group, we have no thoughts on the subject. Other than wishing that Christians would quit trying to convert us or kill us off. Well, that's why I put "believe in" in quotes. I have a friend who is a rabbi and she has told me that she thinks Jesus was a real historical person who was regarded as a great teacher. Maybe official Conservative Judaism (which is what she is) believes differently? Obviously she does not believe Jesus is the Messiah. She does have plenty of thoughts on the subject because we belonged to the same interfaith women's group for many years, where we all discussed just about everything. |
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Post by lucyg on Feb 25, 2024 3:43:46 GMT
Correction, Jews do not “believe in” Jesus in any way. I mean, individual Jews may or may not believe that Jesus ever existed. But Jesus is just not an issue in Judaism. As a group, we have no thoughts on the subject. Other than wishing that Christians would quit trying to convert us or kill us off. Well, that's why I put "believe in" in quotes. I have a friend who is a rabbi and she has told me that she thinks Jesus was a real historical person who was regarded as a great teacher. Maybe official Conservative Judaism (which is what she is) believes differently? Obviously she does not believe Jesus is the Messiah. She does have plenty of thoughts on the subject because we belonged to the same interfaith women's group for many years, where we all discussed just about everything. That’s fine. It’s just that it’s her personal belief, not an official tenet of Judaism, which has no stance on Jesus whatsoever. |
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Post by Embri on Feb 25, 2024 4:32:17 GMT
No freakin' idea.
If you asked me to tell you the difference between them, I wouldn't be able say - two mildly dubious variants on the same unpalatable flavour as far as I'm concerned.
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twinsmomfla99
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Post by twinsmomfla99 on Feb 25, 2024 21:12:06 GMT
The poll isn't worded right, in my opinion. "I am Christian...." and "I am Catholic..." are the same thing. Better would be to say "I am not Catholic... "Christian" is a very broad brush that includes all denominations. Christians are those who believe that Jesus was the Christ, and of course that includes Catholics. Honestly, I had never heard of anyone not believing Catholics are Christian until I saw it in a thread here some time ago. Now, there could certainly be wacky Christians who think Catholics or any other denomination are not "true Christians"... they might certainly believe that about my very-left-leaning Presbyterian church. We welcome everyone, have an open table, hold immigration workshops, collect for the local women and children shelter, etc. We try to follow the words of Jesus, as do many many other churches. The wacky ones, like that pastor in the other thread, no doubt think we're heretics with one foot in hell. As I said on that other thread, oh well. We don't mind. In my experience, I know of two pretty "mainstream" religions that believe this: (Southern?) Baptists and members of the Jim Baker First Church of God groups. The only times I ever encountered this belief with the Baptist Church was when I lived in Raleigh, and Richmond, VA. However, I saw it regularly in my hometown in WV (First Church of God--my mom's church). There were quite a few of her church-lady friends who were very concerned about my soul and my sister's soul when we married into the Catholic Church LOL. The funny thing is, I would guess that at least 30% of my hometown residents are Catholic, so it's not like it was some unknown religion. They were just convinced we would be praying to idols (Mary and saints). |
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Post by tuva42 on Feb 25, 2024 22:10:28 GMT
I went to the official source - Merriam Webster Dictionary:
Christian: 1a: one who professes belief in the teachings of Jesus Christ.
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Country Ham
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Post by Country Ham on Feb 26, 2024 0:44:31 GMT
I was raised Catholic, no longer practice any sort of religion at all. So I selected Not Christian - Catholics are. I was taught that the Catholic church was the first and all other Christian sects branched off from them. So in my upbringing, Catholics are the original christians.
That Catholicism predated the churches that Paul wrote his letters to? Predated t he 6 churches of Asia as described in the book of Revelation by John? When Paul addressed King Agrippa in the book of Acts and described his conversion on the road to Damascus and King Agrippa said "thou almost pursuadeth me to become a Christian" you mean predated these Christians? I was raised RC and never heard it taught the Catholics were the original Christians before. That's interesting.
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Post by Zee on Feb 26, 2024 1:25:57 GMT
The poll isn't worded right, in my opinion. "I am Christian...." and "I am Catholic..." are the same thing. Better would be to say "I am not Catholic... "Christian" is a very broad brush that includes all denominations. Christians are those who believe that Jesus was the Christ, and of course that includes Catholics. Honestly, I had never heard of anyone not believing Catholics are Christian until I saw it in a thread here some time ago. Now, there could certainly be wacky Christians who think Catholics or any other denomination are not "true Christians"... they might certainly believe that about my very-left-leaning Presbyterian church. We welcome everyone, have an open table, hold immigration workshops, collect for the local women and children shelter, etc. We try to follow the words of Jesus, as do many many other churches. The wacky ones, like that pastor in the other thread, no doubt think we're heretics with one foot in hell. As I said on that other thread, oh well. We don't mind. In my experience, I know of two pretty "mainstream" religions that believe this: (Southern?) Baptists and members of the Jim Baker First Church of God groups. The only times I ever encountered this belief with the Baptist Church was when I lived in Raleigh, and Richmond, VA. However, I saw it regularly in my hometown in WV (First Church of God--my mom's church). There were quite a few of her church-lady friends who were very concerned about my soul and my sister's soul when we married into the Catholic Church LOL. The funny thing is, I would guess that at least 30% of my hometown residents are Catholic, so it's not like it was some unknown religion. They were just convinced we would be praying to idols (Mary and saints). A wide variety of people to pray to is just a bonus benefit to me! |
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Post by JustCallMeMommy on Feb 26, 2024 15:53:05 GMT
I think for the most part the denominations or sects that think Catholics are not Christian just don't understand what Catholics believe. If they read the text for any given mass, they will find the things they believe is necessary for salvation in every service - confession of sins, statement of Jesus as savior, etc. So, given many of these denominations' belief that you only have to profess that Jesus is lord ask for forgiveness and repent once (and really believe it), the Catholics are pretty well covered, as if they participate in and believe their whole mass just one time in their whole life, they're covered. Plus Catholics and many other denominations state their core beliefs frequently in the form of the Nicean or Apostolic Creed, both of which completely agreed with the teachings of the Southern Baptist church I grew up in (once they understand that little-c catholic means universal).
I think other denominations get hung up on the parts they don't understand - praying to Saints, transfiguration, confession, the role of the priest in forgiveness, and Papal infallibility.
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Post by smasonnc on Feb 26, 2024 16:52:24 GMT
Lapsed Cafeteria Catholic here. But I remember an evangelical friend from high school taking me aside one day to invite me to be "saved" at his church. He told me that Catholics are not Christian and I could expect to go to hell if I didn't leave the church. Yep. I got religious pamphlets on my doorstep that said the pope was the anti-christ and called the host "the death cookie." I never even knew this was a thing until I read the question on the original 2peas. Never heard anyone suggest anything of the sort in real life. I lived in Charlotte, North Carolina where they greet new neighbors with a casserole and, "What church did y'all join?" They looked blankly when I said the local Catholic church. The "Christian" bookstore didn't have any Catholic merchandise. Saleslady: "No ma'am, we don't have any Catholic books." Me: "So this is a PROTESTANT bookstore, not a Christian bookstore." A banner headline on the front page of the Charlotte Observer said, "Catholics, Christians, and Jews..."  There are people I know who are definitely Catholics who claim to be Christians but their behavior definitely doesn’t reflect that. We don't exactly have that market cornered. My good friend has a niece who attends a very small Bible college in Alabama and she is asking for money to go on a mission trip to Ireland to try and convert Catholics to Christianity. According to the email, only 4% of Ireland is Christian. What the actual $%#$? Explains a lot about the troglodytes legislating abortion rights in Alabama. I wonder what the basis is for not considering Catholics Christians. Superiority. Some "actual" Christians, as opposed to Catholics, dearly love telling other people they're going to hell. Makes them feel special. |
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Gennifer
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Post by Gennifer on Feb 26, 2024 19:38:53 GMT
I’m an atheist, but to me, “Christian” refers to anyone that believes Jesus Christ is the Messiah. Catholics would fall under that umbrella.
(But my perception is influenced by the fact that I was raised Mormon and absolutely considered myself a Christian, even if others didn’t.)
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Post by smasonnc on Feb 26, 2024 20:55:02 GMT
The name "Christian" literally denotes someone who follows Christ. It's mental that ignorant Evangelicals have missed that or can't figure it out.
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pilcas
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Post by pilcas on Feb 26, 2024 21:36:08 GMT
I was raised Catholic, no longer practice any sort of religion at all. So I selected Not Christian - Catholics are. I was taught that the Catholic church was the first and all other Christian sects branched off from them. So in my upbringing, Catholics are the original christians. That Catholicism predated the churches that Paul wrote his letters to? Predated t he 6 churches of Asia as described in the book of Revelation by John? When Paul addressed King Agrippa in the book of Acts and described his conversion on the road to Damascus and King Agrippa said "thou almost pursuadeth me to become a Christian" you mean predated these Christians? I was raised RC and never heard it taught the Catholics were the original Christians before. That's interesting.
Those Christians became what is known today as Catholics. The term Catholic means universal and the term was recorded used about 100AD to describe the different Christian communities that grew in different areas but were all based on the teaching of Christ. They were a worldwide church. Remember the 12 apostles and Mary went to different areas to preach the word of Jesus. The name caught on and became used frequently to refer to this new religion. |
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Post by wholarmor on Feb 26, 2024 22:16:06 GMT
Back in my Evangelical heyday-after leaving the Mormon church, I would have answered no. We were taught that Catholics weren't true Christians because of their different beliefs. Mormons- the same. Of course, my very Catholic step-mom told me that only Catholicism was the real Christian church- all these churches trying to convince everyone that they were the only right one, when they all had issues, lol. I was also convinced that Mormons weren't Christian.
I feel like the lady who said she was taking her son to the Catholic school even though they were Christian, COULD have just meant that even though they weren't Catholic, they were still going to go to the Catholic school. The Catholic church DOES have some different beliefs than the generic Christians, and I know people will distinguish themselves in that manner. Likewise, the Catholic church won't give sacraments such as marriage and communion to non Catholics, so it's a mixed bag to me. Kind of like how the Mormons didn't want to call themselves Christian at one point, and now they are trying their best to fit in under the umbrella- even using the cross to label themselves on Google maps when they were very much anti-cross symbols until recently.
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