Deleted
Posts: 0
Jun 30, 2024 13:14:40 GMT
|
Post by Deleted on Jun 19, 2015 16:31:49 GMT
|
|
Deleted
Posts: 0
Jun 30, 2024 13:14:40 GMT
|
Post by Deleted on Jun 19, 2015 16:34:45 GMT
That person's opinion sickens me. In all fairness though, I'm not sure that is the stance of the NRA itself. That would be like if one of us or even the Admin on this site made some jacked-up assholish comment and the world decided that 2peasrefugees should be banned because of it. One gun law I am ALL for is holding the gun owner responsible for any crime committed with a gun they purchased. I think that may make people think twice about being careless with the security of a weapon they purchase. Someone should NOT be allowed to give a gun to someone else as a gift. A background check on the actual owner/possessor should be mandatory. I am also ALL for the tightest background checks possible to absolutely include mental health record investigations. I am not sure what the different rules are state by state. I know that when I purchased my pistol they did run a check with law enforcement, that is in Michigan. Beyond the things I stated above, I am not sure what "new" gun laws would work, but I am all ears to listen to ideas. I also agree that the illegal gun problem is a horrible one. Since many of the guns used in crimes have been legally purchased though, I think the only way to get people to take seriously the security of the guns they purchase is to hold them personally responsible for their guns. Now, if a gun is stolen, say through a robbery, then it should be reported to the police so that owner is not responsible. I would also like to see mandatory gun safety classes for those wanting to purchase a gun, with the point driven home (and backed with ENFORCED law of course) that your gun=your responsibility. I am CCW trained though chose not to apply for the actual permit as I have no desire to carry in public. I live alone and keep a pistol in my home for personal protection. There are four locks to get in my front door and four to get in my back door. By the time someone is able to get through those, my dog will alert me. Although I pray that I will never ever have to use my gun for self-defense, if a person goes through the trouble to break through 4 locks, they are obviously up to something bad and I would not hesitate to shoot them in my home. My husband is an Army Combat Infantryman Veteran and has spent many hours with me at the range teaching me gun safety and practicing with me. I can match or outshoot him every time on the range and he was classified as a sharpshooter and expert marksman at various times in his military career. The thing here is that I think a generic statement of, "We need tighter gun control laws." does nothing to solve the problem. We do need to come up with specifics. I've posted specifics that I would like to see as have others. So not sure why that's being said. But honestly we aren't the ones that make policy nor do we have the background or education to truly know. All I know is something has to give. And yes that was one man in the nra but they have mad many statements like that as a whole in the past. It's nothing new. |
|
elainebenis
Junior Member
Posts: 50
Jul 3, 2014 23:26:11 GMT
|
Post by elainebenis on Jun 19, 2015 17:22:51 GMT
You guys don't know what the phrase "straight from the playbook' means? Seriously? The killer said it. That vile mindset came from somewhere. Coincidentally, a lot of people make a lot of money at Fox news and rw talk radio (and pretending to run for president) by relentlessly scaring and dividing the citizenry of this country. RW media successfully convinced a fair number of people that unarmed teenagers (Martin and Brown) were a mortal threat to a grown, armed man. Because, thug. Perhaps I'm not making myself clear, so I'll let this comment from a NYT op-ed piece speak for me: |
|
Sarah*H
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 3,989 
|
Post by Sarah*H on Jun 19, 2015 17:29:11 GMT
My proposed solution (which has previously been screamed down by the usual parties here) is to require each gun owner to have insurance on each gun they own and require that insurance to include payouts for use of the weapon in a crime and then go back against the gun owner to recover their loss. Let the actuaries figure out the risk. If that makes guns too expensive for certain people to own because of their choices and habits with their weapons - I say that begins to identify the source of some of our problems.
|
|
|
|
Post by pierogi on Jun 19, 2015 17:52:22 GMT
You guys don't know what the phrase "straight from the playbook' means? Seriously? The killer said it. He got that vile mindset came from somewhere. Coincidentally, a lot of people make a lot of money at Fox news and rw talk radio (and pretending to run for president) by relentlessly scaring and dividing the citizenry of this country. RW media successfully convinced a fair number of people that unarmed teenagers (Martin and Brown) were a mortal threat to a grown, armed man. Because, thug. Perhaps I'm not making myself clear, so I'll let this comment from a NYT op-ed piece speak for me: Funny you should mention NI, because they're coming into "Marching Season" now, which will culminate with the Orange parades and bonfires on July 12. The sectarian Orange Order still exists in big numbers, and they're furious when they can't barrel through Catholic neighborhoods and sing vile tunes like Sash of My Father, or the Famine Song and taunt the "Fenians" for a military defeat that happened in 1690. Then when the flames are lit, they'll burn an effigy of the pope, then throw on an Irish flag, usually with the initials KAT or KAI. The meaning: "Kill All Taigs" or "Kill All Irish." But they're non-violent, they swear! It's just an accident that many lodges had connections to the LVF or UVF and other violent paramilitary organizations. It's just coincidence that in bigger cities like Belfast or Derry, local Catholics hide, board up their windows to protect them from being smashed by bricks, and leave town. It's considered common sense to stay off the streets if you're Catholic and near a marching route. If you're caught, you will be beaten. When the participants get called out on this reprehensible display, they get furious and claim victimhood. Because this kind of bigotry is their "culture," and why are you trying to take away their proud history and heritage? Unfortunately, they dominate the government and still comprise a majority in the country so it may be generations before those practices obsolete themselves. But it's amazing how this majority feels persecuted over the slightest things. Even though the Troubles are technically over, the dehumanizing language towards Catholics, Irish, the Other, is still used. Thirty years of violence has changed little for these people. I see so many parallels between these people and those that defend the confederate flag and displays of bigotry under the umbrella of "culture." It's effect on the population is like a subtle poison. Or as Jon Stewart put it: "racial wallpaper." |
|
mrstodd
Shy Member
Posts: 36
|
Post by mrstodd on Jun 19, 2015 18:01:13 GMT
My proposed solution (which has previously been screamed down by the usual parties here) is to require each gun owner to have insurance on each gun they own and require that insurance to include payouts for use of the weapon in a crime and then go back against the gun owner to recover their loss. Let the actuaries figure out the risk. If that makes guns too expensive for certain people to own because of their choices and habits with their weapons - I say that begins to identify the source of some of our problems. Do you think that the people with illegal guns are going to get insurance? They got their guns illegally, what makes you think that they will comply with the law to insure them? This will keep law abiding people from being able to afford guns, but will do nothing to keep criminals from having them. So, if your goal is to only have criminal gun owners and no way for law abiding citizens to protect themselves from those gun wielding criminals, you'd be well on your way with this requirement. |
|
Deleted
Posts: 0
Jun 30, 2024 13:14:40 GMT
|
Post by Deleted on Jun 19, 2015 18:02:18 GMT
My proposed solution (which has previously been screamed down by the usual parties here) is to require each gun owner to have insurance on each gun they own and require that insurance to include payouts for use of the weapon in a crime and then go back against the gun owner to recover their loss. Let the actuaries figure out the risk. If that makes guns too expensive for certain people to own because of their choices and habits with their weapons - I say that begins to identify the source of some of our problems. Do you think that the people with illegal guns are going to get insurance? They got their guns illegally, what makes you think that they will comply with the law to insure them? This will keep law abiding people from being able to afford guns, but will do nothing to keep criminals from having them. So, if your goal is to only have criminal gun owners and no way for law abiding citizens to protect themselves from those gun wielding criminals, you'd be well on your way with this requirement. And there it is. This crime and sandy hook, etc were done with LEGAL guns. That is what we are talking about. |
|
|
|
Post by kellybelly77 on Jun 19, 2015 18:16:39 GMT
My proposed solution (which has previously been screamed down by the usual parties here) is to require each gun owner to have insurance on each gun they own and require that insurance to include payouts for use of the weapon in a crime and then go back against the gun owner to recover their loss. Let the actuaries figure out the risk. If that makes guns too expensive for certain people to own because of their choices and habits with their weapons - I say that begins to identify the source of some of our problems. A year or two ago our legislature was trying to pass a law that would allow teachers in our public schools to be able to come to school armed. There is one insurance company that provides liability insurance to like 90% of Kansas schools. When they got wind of this they made an announcement that said that their actuaries have done the math and that guns on school campuses were too risky/costly and they would be unable to insure any of our schools if they allowed teachers to come to school armed! Who would have thought, an insurance carrier would be the voice of reason. That is all they do, assess risk and they were telling everyone it was too risky!
ETA: I should say, that the stupid legislation passed but most districts have refused to adopt the policy.
|
|
Sarah*H
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 3,989
|
Post by Sarah*H on Jun 19, 2015 18:31:23 GMT
Those illegal guns came from somewhere to begin with - whether it was a homeowner who negligently failed to secure and the gun was stolen in a burglary or someone bought it and sold it on the black market. I'm also not even remotely interested in hearing that it's too late to put the genie back in the bottle because there are already so many illegal guns out there. Yes, there are and the number grows higher every day. So lets come up with something that requires people to be responsible with their weapons or be priced out of the market. Moreover, as scrappower pointed out, almost all of the guns used in these types of crimes were purchased legally OR were purchased illegally in a way that makes it very simple to trace it back to the person who transferred it illegally.
Look, if you're a law abiding individual who can demonstrate the intent and capacity to use and store your weapon safely and provide proof of the mental competency of the individuals in your home, you should have no problem securing reasonably priced insurance. My gut says that when people push back against this idea, they are unconsciously acknowledging the likely deficit of one of these criteria in many, many gun owning households. And if instead you're saying that there would be no reasonably priced insurance because the companies would judge the overall risk to be too high, you've already lost the argument.
|
|
|
|
Post by ktdoesntscrap on Jun 19, 2015 18:32:47 GMT
Personally I would control the distribution of Bullets.
Like in the UK.. guns could only be used at Gun Clubs. You can have as many bullets as you want there.. but they stay there!!!
|
|
Deleted
Posts: 0
Jun 30, 2024 13:14:40 GMT
|
Post by Deleted on Jun 19, 2015 18:34:21 GMT
You guys don't know what the phrase "straight from the playbook' means? Seriously? The killer said it. He got that vile mindset came from somewhere. Coincidentally, a lot of people make a lot of money at Fox news and rw talk radio (and pretending to run for president) by relentlessly scaring and dividing the citizenry of this country. RW media successfully convinced a fair number of people that unarmed teenagers (Martin and Brown) were a mortal threat to a grown, armed man. Because, thug. Perhaps I'm not making myself clear, so I'll let this comment from a NYT op-ed piece speak for me: Funny you should mention NI, because they're coming into "Marching Season" now, which will culminate with the Orange parades and bonfires on July 12. The sectarian Orange Order still exists in big numbers, and they're furious when they can't barrel through Catholic neighborhoods and sing vile tunes like Sash of My Father, or the Famine Song and taunt the "Fenians" for a military defeat that happened in 1690. Then when the flames are lit, they'll burn an effigy of the pope, then throw on an Irish flag, usually with the initials KAT or KAI. The meaning: "Kill All Taigs" or "Kill All Irish." But they're non-violent, they swear! It's just an accident that many lodges had connections to the LVF or UVF and other violent paramilitary organizations. It's just coincidence that in bigger cities like Belfast or Derry, local Catholics hide, board up their windows to protect them from being smashed by bricks, and leave town. It's considered common sense to stay off the streets if you're Catholic and near a marching route. If you're caught, you will be beaten. When the participants get called out on this reprehensible display, they get furious and claim victimhood. Because this kind of bigotry is their "culture," and why are you trying to take away their proud history and heritage? Unfortunately, they dominate the government and still comprise a majority in the country so it may be generations before those practices obsolete themselves. But it's amazing how this majority feels persecuted over the slightest things. Even though the Troubles are technically over, the dehumanizing language towards Catholics, Irish, the Other, is still used. Thirty years of violence has changed little for these people. I see so many parallels between these people and those that defend the confederate flag and displays of bigotry under the umbrella of "culture." It's effect on the population is like a subtle poison. Or as Jon Stewart put it: "racial wallpaper." So you live in Northern Ireland pierogi ? |
|
Deleted
Posts: 0
Jun 30, 2024 13:14:40 GMT
|
Post by Deleted on Jun 19, 2015 18:38:08 GMT
My proposed solution (which has previously been screamed down by the usual parties here) is to require each gun owner to have insurance on each gun they own and require that insurance to include payouts for use of the weapon in a crime and then go back against the gun owner to recover their loss. Let the actuaries figure out the risk. If that makes guns too expensive for certain people to own because of their choices and habits with their weapons - I say that begins to identify the source of some of our problems. Do you think that the people with illegal guns are going to get insurance? They got their guns illegally, what makes you think that they will comply with the law to insure them? This will keep law abiding people from being able to afford guns, but will do nothing to keep criminals from having them. So, if your goal is to only have criminal gun owners and no way for law abiding citizens to protect themselves from those gun wielding criminals, you'd be well on your way with this requirement. Illegal guns don't appear out of thin air. If we didn't make legal guns so damn easy to get, and thus so plentiful (~300 million), illegal guns wouldn't be as easy to get, either. If Joey's parents can't readily own 10 guns easily, it's not so likely Joey's going to trade one with with felon buddy for meth. That's just a tiny example, but many/most illegal guns were legal at some point and were stolen, sold, traded, whatever and became illegal. We can't just throw our hands up and say, "It's too big a problem! Nothing can be done!" |
|
|
|
Post by foolana on Jun 19, 2015 18:48:30 GMT
Almost every illegal gun in this country started out as a legal gun. Whether it's through burglary, black market sales or gun show sales that are not regulated, a gun that gets into the hands of someone who legally cannot have it has most likely been brought into the situation through our lax and useless gun laws or through crime. You have it backwards, @gajenny.
And StacyAngel, do you ever have anything nice to say? Don't you have some nail polish to squeal over? You never add anything to a discussion I'm involved in except to insult me. That's really sad.
ETA: Perhaps a more useful discussion would involve an examination of how legal guns get into illegal hands. That certainly has more credence here in this thread about a how a person with a LEGAL gun murdered 9 people in cold blood. I still don't understand what Chicago (aka Obama) has to do with the Charleston case. You're unreal...So Chicago is off-limits simply because Obama is from there? Gotcha...Chicago has the tightest gun control laws, and the most gun violence. That is WHY it is relevant to any discussion of gun control. Because people advocating gun control do the math this way... Gun Control Laws > Gun Violence Chicago is a perfect example that that is not a true equation. The violence in SC is gut-wrenching and most definitely a hate crime. The shooter is a white trash thug. Do we know what his previous arrests were for? The root of the problem is something even liberal progressives have no desire to take the time to fix, and that is the psychology of the shooters. WHAT inside them is a common denominator? Is there one? Until we tackle the "why" of the crime, we will never really be effective at controlling the "how" of the crime. But everyone wants a quick fix, so they fly off about gun control, because it's an easy solution. But prohibition of any kind, builds crime. We should have learned that by now. It's funny that you think we need to find out the "why" of a crime only when it's committed by a white person. When a person of color is suspected of a crime a lot of people here only want to talk about punishment. Hmmmm.
I still have no idea what Chicago has to do with what happened in Charleston except to remind us that there's more black crime than white crime in this country. (which isn't true, BTW) Every time we have a discussion about white on black crime we ALWAYS have to be reminded about how terrible black on black crime is, especially in mostly minority inner cities. The racism in these statements by the usual suspects here is always very apparent.
Bringing up the gun crime in Chicago is a disgusting attempt to blame the very people who were the victims of this horrendous attack in Charleston. Shame on you @gajenny. You couldn't even let these poor dead people get cold before you blamed them for their own deaths and a not-so veiled attack on our president . Crime is crime and it shouldn't matter what color you are. Most illegal guns start out as LEGAL guns. How hard is that to comprehend?
|
|
Deleted
Posts: 0
Jun 30, 2024 13:14:40 GMT
|
Post by Deleted on Jun 19, 2015 18:50:43 GMT
|
|
Deleted
Posts: 0
Jun 30, 2024 13:14:40 GMT
|
Post by Deleted on Jun 19, 2015 18:50:51 GMT
You guys don't know what the phrase "straight from the playbook' means? Seriously? I knew exactly what you meant and responded accordingly. Fox News did not, create that hate. Right wing people are not evil. Demonizing an entire segment of the population because they are different than you is no different than if you did it because they are black. What you are doing is no better than a racist. In the Michael Brown case he was a mortal threat to the cop because he tried to take his gun. He made his intent very clear to Darren Wilson. Unarmed does not mean not dangerous, just as death does not elevate someone to sainthood. Those bikers killed people. They surpassed thug and are murderers. Murder isn't limited to a single race. Any black bikers there, would be labeled murders too. The people in Ferguson didn't kill anyone, they only vandalized. Hence the thug title. Vandalizing isn't limited to a single race. Any white people vandalizing would be labeled thug too. I've never been told that. You are wrong. Right wing people and right wing media do not do what you claim. Painting and demonizing an entire segment of the population (incorrectly) because they are different than you is no different than if you did it because they are black. What you are doing is no better than a racist. It's just that it's not illegal and often, socially acceptable to do so. |
|
|
|
Post by jonda1974 on Jun 19, 2015 18:57:19 GMT
My proposed solution (which has previously been screamed down by the usual parties here) is to require each gun owner to have insurance on each gun they own and require that insurance to include payouts for use of the weapon in a crime and then go back against the gun owner to recover their loss. Let the actuaries figure out the risk. If that makes guns too expensive for certain people to own because of their choices and habits with their weapons - I say that begins to identify the source of some of our problems. I actually see a lot of benefits to that, and find that pretty reasonable, as it would be the same as requiring car insurance and whatnot. I would support a measure like this. |
|
|
|
Post by pierogi on Jun 19, 2015 19:04:51 GMT
Funny you should mention NI, because they're coming into "Marching Season" now, which will culminate with the Orange parades and bonfires on July 12. The sectarian Orange Order still exists in big numbers, and they're furious when they can't barrel through Catholic neighborhoods and sing vile tunes like Sash of My Father, or the Famine Song and taunt the "Fenians" for a military defeat that happened in 1690. Then when the flames are lit, they'll burn an effigy of the pope, then throw on an Irish flag, usually with the initials KAT or KAI. The meaning: "Kill All Taigs" or "Kill All Irish." But they're non-violent, they swear! It's just an accident that many lodges had connections to the LVF or UVF and other violent paramilitary organizations. It's just coincidence that in bigger cities like Belfast or Derry, local Catholics hide, board up their windows to protect them from being smashed by bricks, and leave town. It's considered common sense to stay off the streets if you're Catholic and near a marching route. If you're caught, you will be beaten. When the participants get called out on this reprehensible display, they get furious and claim victimhood. Because this kind of bigotry is their "culture," and why are you trying to take away their proud history and heritage? Unfortunately, they dominate the government and still comprise a majority in the country so it may be generations before those practices obsolete themselves. But it's amazing how this majority feels persecuted over the slightest things. Even though the Troubles are technically over, the dehumanizing language towards Catholics, Irish, the Other, is still used. Thirty years of violence has changed little for these people. I see so many parallels between these people and those that defend the confederate flag and displays of bigotry under the umbrella of "culture." It's effect on the population is like a subtle poison. Or as Jon Stewart put it: "racial wallpaper." So you live in Northern Ireland pierogi ? I do not, although my paternal roots are in Co. Antrim. I do have friends and distant family scattered around from Bellaghy (Co. Derry) to western Belfast. Even though the conflict is over, there are still parts that even as an American, I would feel deeply uncomfortable wandering into. You couldn't pay me to walk into the Shankill or Sandy Row without a local escort. North Armagh? You couldn't pay me under any circumstance to go in, even just to drive through. |
|
Deleted
Posts: 0
Jun 30, 2024 13:14:40 GMT
|
Post by Deleted on Jun 19, 2015 19:09:45 GMT
Personally I would control the distribution of Bullets. Like in the UK.. guns could only be used at Gun Clubs. You can have as many bullets as you want there.. but they stay there!!! That isn't strictly true. There are guns outside of Gun clubs over here. The difference is that they are all registered and to get that licence you have to have a very very valid reason to own a gun......i.e farmers, hunting etc and they have very stringent rules regarding the carrying of them outside of the home as well as the very very secure storage of them within the home which is periodically inspected by the police dept that deals with the firearms licence. The certificate/licence also has to be renewed every five years. |
|
|
|
Post by foolana on Jun 19, 2015 19:10:13 GMT
That really does make sense and it's very similar to what I posted earlier. Most illegal guns start out as legal guns. We have to change the regulations regarding legal gun ownership to effect change. A lot of people here don't want to hear that. It's easier to blame minority-dominant cities and the president than it is to consider the problem rationally and intelligently and do something to fix it.
Thanks for posting that @scrappower.
|
|
|
|
Post by jonda1974 on Jun 19, 2015 19:11:35 GMT
It's funny that you think we need to find out the "why" of a crime only when it's committed by a white person. When a person of color is suspected of a crime a lot of people here only want to talk about punishment. Hmmmm.
I still have no idea what Chicago has to do with what happened in Charleston except to remind us that there's more black crime than white crime in this country. (which isn't true, BTW) Every time we have a discussion about white on black crime we ALWAYS have to be reminded about how terrible black on black crime is, especially in mostly minority inner cities. The racism in these statements by the usual suspects here is always very apparent.
Bringing up the gun crime in Chicago is a disgusting attempt to blame the very people who were the victims of this horrendous attack in Charleston. Shame on you @gajenny. You couldn't even let these poor dead people get cold before you blamed them for their own deaths and a not-so veiled attack on our president . Crime is crime and it shouldn't matter what color you are. Most illegal guns start out as LEGAL guns. How hard is that to comprehend?
You are probably one of the most racist people on here Foolana. You are the one who brought up black-on-black crime. Not me. You are the mind reader who seems to put race into the forefront of every argument. You are the one who is putting words in GAJenny's post that don't exist, just because you have a racist agenda. There is absolutely NO doubt that what happened in SC was a racial hate crime. None. What you fail to comprehend is that GAJenny was NOT responding to a remark about SC, but a remark about Gun Control as a broader topic, extending well past this current mass murder. If you want to blame anyone for not letting these poor dead people get cold before bringing up the topic, then blame whichever posted integrated Gun Control into the conversation. I don't see anyone on this thread blaming the victims. Not a single person. My comment about the "Why" had NOTHING to do with JUST this individual event, but again, about the broader topic of Gun Control and the various mass murders that have prompted the discussion. My comment was about understanding what makes these predominantly white males go on these rampages. Until we understand the "Why" all we are doing with gun control is the same as the TSA...security theater. In terms of other issues of crime and violence, I am absolutely a huge proponent of understanding the "why" of the situation, NOT as an excuse, but as an understanding to try to curb the behavior before a crime takes place. You are the one seeing race in the BIGGER picture, not me. |
|
|
|
Post by ktdoesntscrap on Jun 19, 2015 19:12:10 GMT
Personally I would control the distribution of Bullets. Like in the UK.. guns could only be used at Gun Clubs. You can have as many bullets as you want there.. but they stay there!!! That isn't strictly true. There are guns outside of Gun clubs over here. The difference is that they are all registered and to get that licence you have to have a very very valid reason to own a gun......i.e farmers, hunting etc and they have very stringent rules regarding the carrying of them outside of the home as well as the very very secure storage of them within the home which is periodically inspected by the police dept that deals with the firearms licence. The certificate/licence also has to be renewed every five years. Yes sorry I knew I was oversimplifying it. But yes... that type of control. |
|
Deleted
Posts: 0
Jun 30, 2024 13:14:40 GMT
|
Post by Deleted on Jun 19, 2015 19:17:24 GMT
So you live in Northern Ireland pierogi ? I do not, although my paternal roots are in Co. Antrim. I do have friends and distant family scattered around from Bellaghy (Co. Derry) to western Belfast. Even though the conflict is over, there are still parts that even as an American, I would feel deeply uncomfortable wandering into. You couldn't pay me to walk into the Shankill or Sandy Row without a local escort. North Armagh? You couldn't pay me under any circumstance to go in, even just to drive through. I think you're listening to some very biased opinions if you don't mind me saying so  |
|
|
|
Post by freecharlie on Jun 19, 2015 19:25:09 GMT
And what things in our culture - big culture, little culture - breed the kind of rage, fear and paranoia that result in these crimes happening over and over. We're not supposed to talk about that though; (put on your sarcasm goggles for this next part) it's just one of those things. Crazy is as crazy does. We have NO IDEA why he thought those things and killed those people. It's just a tragedy. There is absolutely nothing we can do to keep tragedies like this from happening again. I disagree to a point. While sometimes there are no signs and there really is nothing we can do, sometimes there are definite mental health signs, but the person doesn't get the treatment they need because of lack of funding or access for mental health. Instead of always blaming the guns, let's look at the mental health services in this country. This guy could have used a homemade bomb just as easily as the gun. |
|
|
|
Post by freecharlie on Jun 19, 2015 19:27:58 GMT
If we are going to hold the gun owner responsible, then I think this needs to expand to all legally owned items. If your stolen car is used in a crime, the the owner should be held responsible. Same with chemicals that are stored in a garage.
|
|
|
|
Post by foolana on Jun 19, 2015 19:28:31 GMT
You are so wrong and ridiculous it almost isn't worth responding to you. @gajenny brought up Chicago in this thread because she can't comprehend that white people commit crimes too. Her constant and not so-veiled racist comments about "Chicago gun violence" isn't fooling anyone. You're the one, in every one of these threads about crimes being committed on black people, mostly by the police lately, who can't shut up about black on black crime. Please don't piss on my leg and tell me it's raining; I'm not the racist here. My "agenda" as you call it, is that there is institutionalized racism in the country and it's people like you and Jenny who insist that they're not racists who are the worst. I will never shut up about how hard it is to be black in this country, especially in the south where you see racist Confederate flags being proudly displayed, the very symbol of slavery in this country. You can try to turn it around on me but I will continue to talk about inequality and the scourge of racism and complacency that destroys peoples' lives. Don't like what I say, jonda1974, don't read it. Don't you dare tell me that I'M the racist here. |
|
|
|
Post by pierogi on Jun 19, 2015 19:29:04 GMT
I do not, although my paternal roots are in Co. Antrim. I do have friends and distant family scattered around from Bellaghy (Co. Derry) to western Belfast. Even though the conflict is over, there are still parts that even as an American, I would feel deeply uncomfortable wandering into. You couldn't pay me to walk into the Shankill or Sandy Row without a local escort. North Armagh? You couldn't pay me under any circumstance to go in, even just to drive through. I think you're listening to some very biased opinions if you don't mind me saying so The personal experiences of those that I've known and trusted for years inform my opinion.  I'm not surprised your views are different. It's ok. As long we don't start tossing petrol bombs at each other because of it, I consider it a win. |
|
|
|
Post by gmcwife1 on Jun 19, 2015 19:30:55 GMT
Personally I would control the distribution of Bullets. Like in the UK.. guns could only be used at Gun Clubs. You can have as many bullets as you want there.. but they stay there!!! I come from a family of hunters so I'm curious how ammunition distribution works during hunting season. Do you happen to know? ETA: disregard since I just read dottyscrappers reply that answered my question |
|
Deleted
Posts: 0
Jun 30, 2024 13:14:40 GMT
|
Post by Deleted on Jun 19, 2015 19:35:26 GMT
My proposed solution (which has previously been screamed down by the usual parties here) is to require each gun owner to have insurance on each gun they own and require that insurance to include payouts for use of the weapon in a crime and then go back against the gun owner to recover their loss. Let the actuaries figure out the risk. If that makes guns too expensive for certain people to own because of their choices and habits with their weapons - I say that begins to identify the source of some of our problems. But wouldn't that basically be a "tax" required for a right given to us in the constitution? And aren't there people very much against requiring ID's in order to vote because that would be a "tax" on the right to vote...something granted in the constitution?
We have to get auto insurance if we want to drive. Fine. The right to drive is not in the constitution.
(and clearly, I do get the difference between someone's life and the right to vote...but rights in the constitution are rights in the constitution, right?)
|
|
Deleted
Posts: 0
Jun 30, 2024 13:14:40 GMT
|
Post by Deleted on Jun 19, 2015 19:39:19 GMT
And what things in our culture - big culture, little culture - breed the kind of rage, fear and paranoia that result in these crimes happening over and over. We're not supposed to talk about that though; (put on your sarcasm goggles for this next part) it's just one of those things. Crazy is as crazy does. We have NO IDEA why he thought those things and killed those people. It's just a tragedy. There is absolutely nothing we can do to keep tragedies like this from happening again. I disagree to a point. While sometimes there are no signs and there really is nothing we can do, sometimes there are definite mental health signs, but the person doesn't get the treatment they need because of lack of funding or access for mental health. Instead of always blaming the guns, let's look at the mental health services in this country. This guy could have used a homemade bomb just as easily as the gun. And look at the systemic racism that is still far too prevalent in this country. How often do we jump to the mental health issue when the perpetrator is not white?  |
|
Deleted
Posts: 0
Jun 30, 2024 13:14:40 GMT
|
Post by Deleted on Jun 19, 2015 19:39:15 GMT
You are so wrong and ridiculous it almost isn't worth responding to you. @gajenny brought up Chicago in this thread because she can't comprehend that white people commit crimes too. Her constant and not so-veiled racist comments about "Chicago gun violence" isn't fooling anyone. You're the one, in every one of these threads about crimes being committed on black people, mostly by the police lately, who can't shut up about black on black crime. Please don't piss on my leg and tell me it's raining; I'm not the racist here. My "agenda" as you call it, is that there is institutionalized racism in the country and it's people like you and Jenny who insist that they're not racists who are the worst. I will never shut up about how hard it is to be black in this country, especially in the south where you see racist Confederate flags being proudly displayed, the very symbol of slavery in this country. You can try to turn it around on me but I will continue to talk about inequality and the scourge of racism and complacency that destroys peoples' lives. Don't like what I say, jonda1974, don't read it. Don't you dare tell me that I'M the racist here. You have some serious issues. I brought up Chicago because Scrappower immediately jumped on the need for more gun laws. Had nothing to do with racism and even less to do with Obama.
But either you cannot comprehend what I've said countless times or you're so filled with hate and rage that your brain will not allow you to comprehend.
Others in this thread may not agree with my views, but you're the only one in this thread that doesn't seem to even comprehend what I'm saying.
Unfortunately I can't help you with that. So feel free to continue to chase your own tail on this. You're the only one here looking like a complete fool.
|
|
I'm not surprised your views are different. It's ok. As long we don't start tossing petrol bombs at each other because of it, I consider it a win.