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Post by Deleted on Apr 14, 2016 20:36:22 GMT
link
"Today a Superior Court judge ruled that a lawsuit by the families of the Sandy Hook Elementary school victims could proceed against the manufacturer of military-style rifle used to kill 20 first graders and 6 adults." "Judge Barbara Bells ruled the federal law shielding gun makers from liability does not override the "legal sufficiency" of the claims made by the Sandy Hook families that the Bushmaster XM-15 used by Adam Lanza should never been made available for sale to civilians". I hope the families succeed but even without understanding most of the "legal stuff" in the article I know it's going to be an almost impossible battle in this gun crazy culture too many Americans live in. But at some level you have to wonder who thought it was a good idea to let John Q Public buy military type weapons. I mean those rifles were invented to efficiently kill our enemies on the battlefield not some crazy neighbor or 20 innocent first graders. Anyway good luck to the families. I really do hope they succeed.
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Post by meeko77 on Apr 14, 2016 20:42:34 GMT
I'm on the bench with you. Now, I admit I didn't read the article. But as far as assault rifles go... I don't have a problem with guns. Hunting rifles, even a hand gun, whatever makes you happy if you're a law abiding, non coocoocachooo citizen. But those military assault rifles, nope....those have no business in the hands of people not specifically trained (and hardcore screened) to use them.
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Post by peano on Apr 14, 2016 22:12:01 GMT
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 14, 2016 23:10:00 GMT
In the article @peano posted its noted that part of the advertising for this Bushmaster XM-15 is the phrase "Consider you man card Reissued". What a stupid ass reason to buy a rifle. And I bet you some men bought the rifle for that very reason.
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Post by lesserknownpea on Apr 14, 2016 23:45:59 GMT
This thread is going to get ugly in 5, 4, 3, 2, 1. . .
But I see no reason for assault weapons like that to be advertised to and sold to non military personnel.
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Post by Linda on Apr 15, 2016 0:54:45 GMT
I don't think that civilians need military weapons. And I really feel for the families - nothing will ever bring their children back.
BUT I don't think that the gun manufacturer should be held liable for selling a legal weapon under legal conditions. If the weapon wasn't legal at time of sale, then yes, that's a liability. If the sale wasn't legal, then yes, that's a liability. But if they followed the law, then they aren't responsible. To rule otherwise is a very slippery slope legally.
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Deleted
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May 19, 2024 15:04:56 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Apr 15, 2016 1:50:05 GMT
I don't think that civilians need military weapons. And I really feel for the families - nothing will ever bring their children back. BUT I don't think that the gun manufacturer should be held liable for selling a legal weapon under legal conditions. If the weapon wasn't legal at time of sale, then yes, that's a liability. If the sale wasn't legal, then yes, that's a liability. But if they followed the law, then they aren't responsible. To rule otherwise is a very slippery slope legally. Maybe this a ways to a mean to get these guns declared illegal in ALL states.
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Post by freecharlie on Apr 15, 2016 2:28:10 GMT
I don't think that civilians need military weapons. And I really feel for the families - nothing will ever bring their children back. BUT I don't think that the gun manufacturer should be held liable for selling a legal weapon under legal conditions. If the weapon wasn't legal at time of sale, then yes, that's a liability. If the sale wasn't legal, then yes, that's a liability. But if they followed the law, then they aren't responsible. To rule otherwise is a very slippery slope legally. I agree with this
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Post by verdepea on Apr 15, 2016 2:37:56 GMT
I hope they preval too. I can't imagine how survivors and the loved ones of the murdered can ever heal when they see it over and over again.
Those types of guns should not be sold to the public. I don't have a problem with most gun ownership. I fully understand the reason those guns were sold to the public was to increase profits, just like every other corporation today.
In almost every other area of business safety is a huge focus..to prevent save lives (aka reduce lawsuits). Work places reward employees for reporting safety concerns. In order to eligible to bid jobs, I have to complete safety packets with endless questions about safety and submit documentation regarding our safety policies, osha 300A logs, ect. We talk about safety regularly. "Don't become complacent in your job, be alert. Wear proper PPE on the job and at home."
The gun industry and the NRA have made little to no effort to increase safety for its customers or the general public. It's time laws are enacted to make them responsible for their lack of concern for the safey of their customer base to the public. It it going to save everyone? No, but if it can save one life and also the lives of the people who love the one saved person. That is a lot.
I can only hope this will be the start of a new movement that says our safety supercedes your right to carte blanc gun ownership.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 15, 2016 2:49:18 GMT
I hope they preval too. I can't imagine how survivors and the loved ones of the murdered can ever heal when they see it over and over again. Those types of guns should not be sold to the public. I don't have a problem with most gun ownership. I fully understand the reason those guns were sold to the public was to increase profits, just like every other corporation today. In almost every other area of business safety is a huge focus..to prevent save lives (aka reduce lawsuits). Work places reward employees for reporting safety concerns. In order to eligible to bid jobs, I have to complete safety packets with endless questions about safety and submit documentation regarding our safety policies, osha 300A logs, ect. We talk about safety regularly. "Don't become complacent in your job, be alert. Wear proper PPE on the job and at home." The gun industry and the NRA have made little to no effort to increase safety for its customers or the general public. It's time laws are enacted to make them responsible for their lack of concern for the safey of their customer base to the public. It it going to save everyone? No, but if it can save one life and also the lives of the people who love the one saved person. That is a lot. I can only hope this will be the start of a new movement that says our safety supercedes your right to carte blanc gun ownership. I have to respectfully disagree with you here. NRA firearm safety programs have helped reduce the accidental firearm fatality rate 67% over the last 50 years, while firearms ownership has risen 140%, and handgun ownership has risen 200%. From Huffington Post: "Talking politics alone or attempting to convince millions of Americans not to own guns will not constructively educate those people (gun owners), just like talking abstinence alone will not adequately educate people on safe sex practices. You need specific instructions. Who is educating these millions of gun owners? It is largely the NRA, through its 93,000 NRA Certified Instructors nationwide, that trains about 750,000 people a year on gun safety. The NRA Eddie Eagle GunSafe firearm accident prevention program has reached over 25 million children, making it the most widely taught prevention program in the world. The program teaches children that if they see a gun, they should "STOP! Don't Touch. Leave The Area. Tell An Adult." ...it is important to recognize the value the NRA provides in educating millions of Americans on the safe use and storage of guns."
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Post by freecharlie on Apr 15, 2016 2:51:59 GMT
I hope they preval too. I can't imagine how survivors and the loved ones of the murdered can ever heal when they see it over and over again. Those types of guns should not be sold to the public. I don't have a problem with most gun ownership. I fully understand the reason those guns were sold to the public was to increase profits, just like every other corporation today. In almost every other area of business safety is a huge focus..to prevent save lives (aka reduce lawsuits). Work places reward employees for reporting safety concerns. In order to eligible to bid jobs, I have to complete safety packets with endless questions about safety and submit documentation regarding our safety policies, osha 300A logs, ect. We talk about safety regularly. "Don't become complacent in your job, be alert. Wear proper PPE on the job and at home." The gun industry and the NRA have made little to no effort to increase safety for its customers or the general public. It's time laws are enacted to make them responsible for their lack of concern for the safey of their customer base to the public. It it going to save everyone? No, but if it can save one life and also the lives of the people who love the one saved person. That is a lot. I can only hope this will be the start of a new movement that says our safety supercedes your right to carte blanc gun ownership. I understand that you don't believe that the guns should be legal, but given that they are legal, why should a company that is doing nothing illegal be held responsible? We don't sue breweries for drunk drivers, we don't sue car makers for accidents (as long as there is no defect). I don't think they should be barred from bringing a legal case, but I don't believe they should win.
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Post by pierkiss on Apr 15, 2016 3:07:02 GMT
I hope they win. I was just thinking of Sandy Hook today when my daughter came home from school today and told me that she got really scared during a lockdown drill at school. They normally don't scare her but she was in a different room today and was unfamiliar with the protocol for that room. What a sad world we live in where 1st graders have to practice what they will do and where they will hide in case someone comes to their school to try and hurt them.
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Post by gar on Apr 15, 2016 3:12:06 GMT
Just waiting for someone to drop in and point out that the term assault rifle is wrong/meaningless or whatever and therefore no one knows what they're talking about.....
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Deleted
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May 19, 2024 15:04:56 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Apr 15, 2016 3:24:43 GMT
Maybe the lawsuit will die. Maybe not. I hope not because who in their right mind thinks it's a good idea for military grade guns be made available to the masses? Stupidity at its best.
If the manufacturer is held accountable in some way maybe just maybe it will pave a way to make guns like this illegal in all the states. Or it could be the manufacturer will decide to only make the guns for the military. Baby step win for sure if any of this happens. But at least it's a win.
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Deleted
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May 19, 2024 15:04:57 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Apr 15, 2016 3:27:04 GMT
Just waiting for someone to drop in and point out that the term assault rifle is wrong/meaningless or whatever and therefore no one knows what they're talking about..... And since they didn't in almost 6 hours of this thread being active, you decided to go ahead and get it going?
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Post by gar on Apr 15, 2016 3:31:38 GMT
Just waiting for someone to drop in and point out that the term assault rifle is wrong/meaningless or whatever and therefore no one knows what they're talking about..... And since they didn't in almost 6 hours of this thread being active, you decided to go ahead and get it going? I'm in Thailand at the moment so time zones are pretty off for me currently between here, uk and usa. I just got down to the pool and started browsing without so much as a glance at when it was posted but if you want to look at it like that, feel free
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Post by Anita on Apr 15, 2016 3:35:35 GMT
I don't think that civilians need military weapons. And I really feel for the families - nothing will ever bring their children back. BUT I don't think that the gun manufacturer should be held liable for selling a legal weapon under legal conditions. If the weapon wasn't legal at time of sale, then yes, that's a liability. If the sale wasn't legal, then yes, that's a liability. But if they followed the law, then they aren't responsible. To rule otherwise is a very slippery slope legally. I agree with this. Anita
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Post by verdepea on Apr 15, 2016 10:26:23 GMT
I am not familiar with with double quoting, so my apologies.
As I mentioned, I don't have a problem with most gun ownership, I understand its part of the second amendment. I have an issue with certain types of guns being sold to the public, the minimal government oversite, and the industry's inability to self regulate, and the NRA's lack of compassion.
I am sorry, but I have NEVER seen Eddie the Eagle program advertised and I live in Texas. I have seen concealed gun classes. It is NOT enough in my humble opinion. There should be large scale campaigns.
The alcohol industry DOES promote PSA's about the effects of drinking and driving and dangers of drinking while pregnant. MADD has done a wonderful job in educating the public in a variety of ways. There is criminal liability for both the establishment who holds the license to sell and to the person who consumed too much alcohol. It is regulated by the government by setting drinking ages and drinking limits, sobriety check points on the road, and it is monitered by the FTC. Finally there is large campaigns about the dangers of drinking and driving. There are a variety of programs out there to help persons and their families suffering from the disease of alcoholism.
Have all these efforts saved everyone? No? Have the combination of these large scale efforts saved many lives? Yes. Absolutely.
I hope the Sandy Hook parents/coalition become the new MADD of today as it has been very successful in saving lives.
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teddyw
Drama Llama
Posts: 6,850
Jun 29, 2014 1:56:04 GMT
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Post by teddyw on Apr 15, 2016 12:24:50 GMT
I would love to see a total ban of assault rifles. I don't understand why every day people need them. I'd also like to see a total gun ban but that's just never going to happen. This is one of the few things dh & I argue over.
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Post by shescrafty on Apr 15, 2016 12:34:38 GMT
Maybe the lawsuit will die. Maybe not. I hope not because who in their right mind thinks it's a good idea for military grade guns be made available to the masses? Stupidity at its best. If the manufacturer is held accountable in some way maybe just maybe it will pave a way to make guns like this illegal in all the states. Or it could be the manufacturer will decide to only make the guns for the military. Baby step win for sure if any of this happens. But at least it's a win. Totally agree with this.
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marimoose
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 3,282
Jul 22, 2014 2:10:14 GMT
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Post by marimoose on Apr 15, 2016 13:09:17 GMT
I hope they preval too. I can't imagine how survivors and the loved ones of the murdered can ever heal when they see it over and over again. Those types of guns should not be sold to the public. I don't have a problem with most gun ownership. I fully understand the reason those guns were sold to the public was to increase profits, just like every other corporation today. In almost every other area of business safety is a huge focus..to prevent save lives (aka reduce lawsuits). Work places reward employees for reporting safety concerns. In order to eligible to bid jobs, I have to complete safety packets with endless questions about safety and submit documentation regarding our safety policies, osha 300A logs, ect. We talk about safety regularly. "Don't become complacent in your job, be alert. Wear proper PPE on the job and at home." The gun industry and the NRA have made little to no effort to increase safety for its customers or the general public. It's time laws are enacted to make them responsible for their lack of concern for the safey of their customer base to the public. It it going to save everyone? No, but if it can save one life and also the lives of the people who love the one saved person. That is a lot. I can only hope this will be the start of a new movement that says our safety supercedes your right to carte blanc gun ownership. I understand that you don't believe that the guns should be legal, but given that they are legal, why should a company that is doing nothing illegal be held responsible? We don't sue breweries for drunk drivers, we don't sue car makers for accidents (as long as there is no defect). I don't think they should be barred from bringing a legal case, but I don't believe they should win. Can we be friends lol??? You think like I think. I could think of dozens of other examples to add to the list.
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Post by cade387 on Apr 15, 2016 13:53:12 GMT
The lawsuit isn't about if the selling of the guns was legal - it is how they are marketed. So just by selling the gun, the defendants (the gun manufacturer, the distributor, and the store owner) did not do anything illegal inherently. It was that they continuously market these as military guns that can cause great damage to civilians. Also making them readily available to those are not necessarily able to handle their power. That was the way I read the lawsuit.
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iowgirl
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 4,135
Jun 25, 2014 22:52:46 GMT
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Post by iowgirl on Apr 15, 2016 14:12:28 GMT
The Bushmaster looks just like an AR-15. Most people think "AR" stands for "Assault Rifle". It does not. Both are semi-auto civilian guns.
Should that kid have had a gun. No. Do I need a gun. Yes. It is a fact of life for us. Having a gun is a very necessary tool that we have to utilize in our livestock operation.
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Post by anxiousmom on Apr 15, 2016 14:45:43 GMT
The Bushmaster looks just like an AR-15. Most people think "AR" stands for "Assault Rifle". It does not. Both are semi-auto civilian guns. Armalite Rifle, right? (or something similar-I remember reading it in a book somewhere.)
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MerryMom
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 2,539
Jul 24, 2014 19:51:57 GMT
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Post by MerryMom on Apr 15, 2016 14:47:31 GMT
Don't confuse the propaganda put out by the NRA as what the majority of responsible gun owners believe when it comes to gun control.
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MerryMom
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 2,539
Jul 24, 2014 19:51:57 GMT
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Post by MerryMom on Apr 15, 2016 14:49:01 GMT
I understand that you don't believe that the guns should be legal, but given that they are legal, why should a company that is doing nothing illegal be held responsible? We don't sue breweries for drunk drivers, we don't sue car makers for accidents (as long as there is no defect). I don't think they should be barred from bringing a legal case, but I don't believe they should win. Can we be friends lol??? You think like I think. I could think of dozens of other examples to add to the list. Why not make the comparison for the accountability of tobacco companies?
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raindancer
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 3,095
Jun 26, 2014 20:10:29 GMT
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Post by raindancer on Apr 15, 2016 14:50:24 GMT
I hope they preval too. I can't imagine how survivors and the loved ones of the murdered can ever heal when they see it over and over again. Those types of guns should not be sold to the public. I don't have a problem with most gun ownership. I fully understand the reason those guns were sold to the public was to increase profits, just like every other corporation today. In almost every other area of business safety is a huge focus..to prevent save lives (aka reduce lawsuits). Work places reward employees for reporting safety concerns. In order to eligible to bid jobs, I have to complete safety packets with endless questions about safety and submit documentation regarding our safety policies, osha 300A logs, ect. We talk about safety regularly. "Don't become complacent in your job, be alert. Wear proper PPE on the job and at home." The gun industry and the NRA have made little to no effort to increase safety for its customers or the general public. It's time laws are enacted to make them responsible for their lack of concern for the safey of their customer base to the public. It it going to save everyone? No, but if it can save one life and also the lives of the people who love the one saved person. That is a lot. I can only hope this will be the start of a new movement that says our safety supercedes your right to carte blanc gun ownership. I understand that you don't believe that the guns should be legal, but given that they are legal, why should a company that is doing nothing illegal be held responsible? We don't sue breweries for drunk drivers, we don't sue car makers for accidents (as long as there is no defect). I don't think they should be barred from bringing a legal case, but I don't believe they should win. But bars have been sued for over serving drunk people, etc. And why don't you believe they should win? I think that should be reserved to an actual review of the case as it is presented to the court. Who knows what evidence, etc. there will be.
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MerryMom
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 2,539
Jul 24, 2014 19:51:57 GMT
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Post by MerryMom on Apr 15, 2016 14:53:20 GMT
I hope they preval too. I can't imagine how survivors and the loved ones of the murdered can ever heal when they see it over and over again. Those types of guns should not be sold to the public. I don't have a problem with most gun ownership. I fully understand the reason those guns were sold to the public was to increase profits, just like every other corporation today. In almost every other area of business safety is a huge focus..to prevent save lives (aka reduce lawsuits). Work places reward employees for reporting safety concerns. In order to eligible to bid jobs, I have to complete safety packets with endless questions about safety and submit documentation regarding our safety policies, osha 300A logs, ect. We talk about safety regularly. "Don't become complacent in your job, be alert. Wear proper PPE on the job and at home." The gun industry and the NRA have made little to no effort to increase safety for its customers or the general public. It's time laws are enacted to make them responsible for their lack of concern for the safey of their customer base to the public. It it going to save everyone? No, but if it can save one life and also the lives of the people who love the one saved person. That is a lot. I can only hope this will be the start of a new movement that says our safety supercedes your right to carte blanc gun ownership. The NRA Eddie Eagle GunSafe firearm accident prevention program has reached over 25 million children, making it the most widely taught prevention program in the world. The program teaches children that if they see a gun, they should "STOP! Don't Touch. Leave The Area. Tell An Adult." ...it is important to recognize the value the NRA provides in educating millions of Americans on the safe use and storage of guns." The NRA counts each "click" on their Eddie Eagle website towards their "25 million children" statistic. I just clicked on it so I guess the count is 25 million and 1 except that I am not a child. I won't get into the millions of dollars the NRA PAC sends to politicians and the millions they spend in fighting reasonable gun control or laws to close loop holes.
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Post by Delta Dawn on Apr 15, 2016 16:51:33 GMT
(Just thinking here but where would you use an assault rifle if you weren't in the military? Shooting range maybe? Collector's piece? Just had to have it thing?)
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Post by crimsoncat05 on Apr 15, 2016 16:59:15 GMT
(Just thinking here but where would you use an assault rifle if you weren't in the military? Shooting range maybe? Collector's piece? Just had to have it thing?) disregarding the fact that 'assault rifle' IS a meaningless term (we've had that discussion before, so I won't do it again here no matter how tempting), the answer to your questions is YES, to all of the above. Shooting range, just as a collector's piece, etc. are valid reasons for someone to own any gun that's legal to purchase. And the bar serving alcohol to someone drunk is different than suing the brewery for manufacturing the beer. That analogy for guns would be more like a gun shop selling a gun to someone who didn't pass their background check. The gun manufacturer still isn't liable in that situation, either.
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