Deleted
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May 3, 2024 4:17:30 GMT
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Post by Deleted on May 13, 2016 1:26:21 GMT
link
I follow writer Ayelet Waldman on Twitter. I like her books and I like her because she can be very blunt about things. Like this tweet. "I'm deeply ambivalent about Clinton, I wish others had run. But this shit by Sanders supporters? Disgusting." So I read the article she had attached to her tweet. The article was written by Mary Juhl - "The Stigma of Openly Supporting Hillary Clinton." The author wrote about Hillary's stop in East LA. How inside the venue her speech was interrupted 5 times by Sanders' supporters. But the real story is what happened outside especially when the Hillary supporters were leaving the venue and left by a walkway that was lined by Sander's supporters on both sides of the walkway. Per the story the Sanders supporters were screaming at the departing folks, waving signs in their face as they walked by. One guy had a bullhorn and was screaming "f*ck you" in folks ear if they happened to get close enough to him. Oh yes then there was this little girl carrying a sign that said "We love you Madam Prez." A Sanders supporter grabbed the sign out of her hands and tore it up in front of her. So I went off and goggled to see what I could fine. I found the story I attached. Rachel Maddow interviewed Sanders a couple of days after this happened and she asked him about it. His answer is in the attached link but the recap is while he doesn't condone protestors interrupting Clinton's speech he has no problem with protestors gathering outside the venue. Not with the yelling, not with nasty signs because it's their right. He is right to a certain extent folks do have a right to protest. However no one should have to walk through a gauntlet of yelling people screaming obscenities at you through a bullhorn or have a sign ripped out of your hands because you don't support their guy. And yes the authorities should have kept the protesters away from the Clinton supporters but there is no excuse for the Sanders supporters behavior either. Especially when they rip signs out of a little girl's hands. ( you can see I'm pissed by this sign incident.) I had read on this board that Clinton supporters had been nasty to Sanders supporters so I went looking. All I found that one night on Facebook certain pro Sanders groups had pictures of porn show up on their pages and then tagged so Facebook shut down their pages until they were cleaned up. It was felt this was done by Clinton supporters. Annoying for sure but nothing like what the Clinton supporters faced in East LA faced. And this just didn't happen in East LA. It seems the Sander's supporters have been targeting Superdelegates in MN of all places. NPR did a story on it. I keep thinking of the little girl with the sign. I think it's good thing people want to take their kids to political rallies but one shouldn't have to go through that shit to support one's political candidate. But it's even worse when kids are there. And Sanders should condone this behavior and he hasn't. And this ends my vent for today.
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YooHoot
Pearl Clutcher
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Post by YooHoot on May 13, 2016 3:37:40 GMT
I cannot wait until November 9 th and all this madness will be done.
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Post by lucyg on May 13, 2016 6:20:44 GMT
Yeah, I've been unimpressed with the behavior of some Sanders supporters. I think they pulled that same crap in Oakland last week, too.
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Deleted
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May 3, 2024 4:17:30 GMT
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Post by Deleted on May 13, 2016 10:20:01 GMT
Ok, wading into shark-invested waters...
I agree...that was a very nefarious act for that person to do to that little child. I am a huge Bernie follower, and would never ever think that is appropriate. In fact, I wouldn't even protest at another candidate's rally or speech.
How do they know the protesters were Sander's supporters? I know that we all have experienced someone coming here or at the old Pod claiming to be someone they are not. I would think it would benefit Hillary's campaign greatly, if her supporters would show up wearing "Feel The Bern" t-shirts and pins, and holding signs and acting like little assholes so everyone would assume they were for Bernie, thus turning people off of him. Same for Trump's campaign.
I hang out a lot at those FB groups/pages for Bernie. Most everyone there is all peaceful, kumbaya and all that. Not saying there aren't those zealots who make a bad name for everyone else. Everyone's campaign have those types of people. The groups that were shut down were shut down not by regular pornographic photos. They were kiddie porn photos. And the guy who supposedly did it, bragged about it. He claimed to be a Hillary supporter. But how do we know for sure? Like I said...anyone can claim to be anyone they want.
I agree...I can't wait for this to be over. I fear it's just going to get worse.
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Post by compeateropeator on May 13, 2016 12:28:01 GMT
Well vent away that is allowed, as is protesting. I agree that protesters should not assault anyone. I think most people are in agreement with that. Should people not be Bernie supporters because of this? Well l am guessing that all of the candidates have some assholes and jerks as supporters. Those people are usually only a small percentage of their supporters, but unfortunately they are the ones that are most visible and remembered. I do think that people have the right to PEACEFULLY protest. The people that were physically engaging with the Clinton supporters were wrong. No matter who someone supports or who they are protesting against they should not be touching anyone, grabbing signs, or impede a supporter's access to the venue. And if they do they should have to deal with the consequences. However that doesn't negate the reasons why Someone might support that candidate. And while I do think that people have the right to protest, I am very much against people going into an opposing candidate's rally for the sole purpose of disrupting it. I am also against people getting tickets with no intention of attending just to try and thwart that candidate. I think a lot of people feel that way including many Bernie supporters. I think there are nasty things that Hillary supporters are engaging in. I think it is the same for Trump and all the other candidates. It just may not be protesting at rallies. It is a very tumultuous political season. I also think that Bernie has a lot of young supporters. And sometimes it seems that many younger people can be over zealous and cross the line, especially when they feed off each other. You can also see this type of action when there are mobs of people causing destruction after a big sporting event. There seems to be a lot of "protests" in my state so maybe I am desensitized.   And I think that Bernie is very much an "if you don't like it or don't agree then you need to show people that" type. However you can do that peacefully, legally and without malice, and those that don't follow those rules are wrong no matter their intent. However I am still not a Hilary supporter. I think she is deceptive and a power monger among many other things. My opinion...but my opinion based on Hillary's actions not that of her supporters. I will certainly judge her supporters that I feel are behaving badly, I think that is just human nature. But I don't blame their actions on Hillary unless I have proof that she specifically requested it. However this is just my long winded opinion and I don't expect that everyone will agree with it. |
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Post by Merge on May 13, 2016 14:49:45 GMT
I will continue to base my support of a particular candidate on the behavior and platform of the candidate himself, not people who are or claim to be "supporters." We're not electing supporters.
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MizIndependent
Drama Llama
Quit your bullpoop.
Posts: 5,836
Jun 25, 2014 19:43:16 GMT
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Post by MizIndependent on May 13, 2016 15:47:08 GMT
I think this kind of behavior from all camps is deplorable, but coming Bernie's camp - I'm really disgusted, probably because I hold them to my personal standard. Sanders is 100% correct though, they have every enforceable right to protest. The way they are protesting in CA (and other places) is not acceptable to me or any Sanders Supporter I know or have spoken with. On a side note: when Bernie came to my town, the Trump supporters were the jerks. DD witnessed a Trump supporter literally spitting on a Bernie supporter who was merely in line for the event. That's assault. What that guy did to the little girl's sign...probably an actionable offense as well aside from being just a terrible thing to do. That said... I keep thinking of the little girl with the sign. I think it's good thing people want to take their kids to political rallies but one shouldn't have to go through that shit to support one's political candidate. But it's even worse when kids are there. And Sanders should condone [sic] this behavior and he hasn't. I highly doubt Sanders is even aware of this particular situation and I am certain he (like Clinton if it were a Clinton supporter that did this) would be really angered that someone treated someone else like that in his name. It's just not what he stands for. At all. Some of the anger, I believe, that these particular Bernie Supporters are feeling has to do with the repeated calls for Sanders to "get in line and support Hillary already!" Why on earth would he do that? There are 283 pledged delegates separating them with still another 667 needed for Clinton to clinch it...California, one of the most delegate rich states in the union, is still ahead of us. There is no reason for him to drop out other than to make things easier for Hillary and NONE of the Bernie supporters want him to just give up and hand over what all of us believe in to her. None of that makes these degenerate outliers' behavior acceptable, though it might explain the frustration they have towards what they may feel is an entitled Hillary campaign. I mean...damn. If she can't lock it up with Sanders, how well can we expect her to perform when Trump really pours on the heat? Trump is no gentleman, after all. |
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Post by flanz on May 13, 2016 18:01:32 GMT
I will continue to base my support of a particular candidate on the behavior and platform of the candidate himself, not people who are or claim to be "supporters." We're not electing supporters. exactly! and if we're going to condemn supporters, look at what has happened at Trump rallies by his supporters. difference being, Trump encourages violence!! I abhor all of the nastiness. Bottom line, it is the candidate, not his/her supporters, that inform my vote. |
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MizIndependent
Drama Llama
Quit your bullpoop.
Posts: 5,836
Jun 25, 2014 19:43:16 GMT
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Post by MizIndependent on May 13, 2016 18:42:58 GMT
I had read on this board that Clinton supporters had been nasty to Sanders supporters so I went looking. All I found that one night on Facebook certain pro Sanders groups had pictures of porn show up on their pages and then tagged so Facebook shut down their pages until they were cleaned up. It was felt this was done by Clinton supporters. Annoying for sure but nothing like what the Clinton supporters faced in East LA faced. It was more or less proven to be badly behaving Clinton supporters who were behind it... Snopes did a nice, in depth article on the whole debacle. Screencaps from Bros4Hillary Facebook group cheering on the wingnut who got some pages shut down, there's this screencap as well. |
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Post by lucyg on May 13, 2016 19:01:03 GMT
I had read on this board that Clinton supporters had been nasty to Sanders supporters so I went looking. All I found that one night on Facebook certain pro Sanders groups had pictures of porn show up on their pages and then tagged so Facebook shut down their pages until they were cleaned up. It was felt this was done by Clinton supporters. Annoying for sure but nothing like what the Clinton supporters faced in East LA faced. It was more or less proven to be badly behaving Clinton supporters who were behind it... Snopes did a nice, in depth article on the whole debacle. Screencaps from Bros4Hillary Facebook group bragging about shutting down pages, there's this screencap as well. I don't like that kind of crap behavior from anyone on either side. But I agree with everyone else, I don't hold the candidates responsible for what their wingnut supporters do. Except Trump. I hold Trump responsible.  |
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Deleted
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May 3, 2024 4:17:30 GMT
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Post by Deleted on May 13, 2016 19:04:55 GMT
I don't like that kind of crap behavior from anyone on either side. But I agree with everyone else, I don't hold the candidates responsible for what their wingnut supporters do. Except Trump. I hold Trump responsible. Heh. I agree. Trump is purposefully exploiting people's ignorance, fear, and bigotry in order to gain political power. This kind of scenario never ends well. |
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Deleted
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May 3, 2024 4:17:30 GMT
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Post by Deleted on May 13, 2016 19:10:56 GMT
You should see how the Bernie supporters act on my local county Democratic Facebook page. I can't imagine that Bernie would be happy with their behavior. The moderator had to boot a couple of them off because of their language and aggressiveness toward everyone.
I was pretty suspect that the ones that were causing most of the problem weren't even from our area, so I didn't understand why they were there other than trolling. They wanted NO discussion, just name calling and nasty memes.
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Post by mellyw on May 13, 2016 19:12:48 GMT
I had the thought starting with the 2008 election, kind of wish we had restricted campaigning times, like a lot of European countries. Then 2012 came around, thought it again.
Now that 2016 is here? Have mercy on us all, sure wish we had it. Even though just thinking it makes me itchy (sorry to any European's reading this, it really is ingrained in Americans to not want anything "colonial"), because it feels like a restriction on our freedoms. But damn, it would be nice to only have to hear/see this crap for a short time.
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georgiapea
Drama Llama
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Post by georgiapea on May 13, 2016 19:13:58 GMT
Sanders has supporters?
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MizIndependent
Drama Llama
Quit your bullpoop.
Posts: 5,836
Jun 25, 2014 19:43:16 GMT
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Post by MizIndependent on May 13, 2016 19:17:05 GMT
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Post by mellyw on May 13, 2016 19:17:42 GMT
I don't like that kind of crap behavior from anyone on either side. But I agree with everyone else, I don't hold the candidates responsible for what their wingnut supporters do. Except Trump. I hold Trump responsible. Oh, hell yes. Anything I say doesn't apply to Trump. |
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Post by BeckyTech on May 13, 2016 21:09:12 GMT
Oh, hell yes. Anything I say doesn't apply to Trump. Oh yes, the liberal double-standard. I believe I've heard about that someplace. The Democratic National Convention should be mighty interesting this year. |
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Post by lucyg on May 13, 2016 22:23:07 GMT
Oh, hell yes. Anything I say doesn't apply to Trump. Oh yes, the liberal double-standard. I believe I've heard about that someplace. The Democratic National Convention should be mighty interesting this year. oh, for Pete's sake. First of all, I'm sure there's a sense of humor buried in there somewhere. Please look for it. Second, seriously ... unlike the other candidates, of both parties, who discourage their followers from being disruptive or violent, Trump encourages it. Remember all that go-ahead-shut-him-up-I'll-pay-your-legal-bills business? No need to get offended. This isn't a Democratic vs. Republican issue. It's a civilized world vs. Trump issue. |
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jayfab
Drama Llama
procastinating
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Post by jayfab on May 13, 2016 22:25:52 GMT
Oh yes, the liberal double-standard. I believe I've heard about that someplace. The Democratic National Convention should be mighty interesting this year. oh, for Pete's sake. First of all, I'm sure there's a sense of humor buried in there somewhere. Please look for it. Second, seriously ... unlike the other candidates, of both parties, who discourage their followers from being disruptive or violent, Trump encourages it. Remember all that go-ahead-shut-him-up-I'll-pay-your-legal-bills business? No need to get offended. This isn't a Democratic vs. Republican issue. It's a civilized world vs. Trump issue.
Good one!  |
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Deleted
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May 3, 2024 4:17:30 GMT
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Post by Deleted on May 14, 2016 16:11:33 GMT
I had read on this board that Clinton supporters had been nasty to Sanders supporters so I went looking. All I found that one night on Facebook certain pro Sanders groups had pictures of porn show up on their pages and then tagged so Facebook shut down their pages until they were cleaned up. It was felt this was done by Clinton supporters. Annoying for sure but nothing like what the Clinton supporters faced in East LA faced. It was more or less proven to be badly behaving Clinton supporters who were behind it... Snopes did a nice, in depth article on the whole debacle. Screencaps from Bros4Hillary Facebook group cheering on the wingnut who got some pages shut down, there's this screencap as well. I did my research before I started this thread so I knew who supposedly posted the pictures. Again annoying but not in the same caliber of someone yelling "f*uck you" at you through a bullhorn as you leave a rally for your candidate. |
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Post by BeckyTech on May 14, 2016 16:28:31 GMT
Oh yes, the liberal double-standard. I believe I've heard about that someplace. The Democratic National Convention should be mighty interesting this year. oh, for Pete's sake. First of all, I'm sure there's a sense of humor buried in there somewhere. Please look for it. Second, seriously ... unlike the other candidates, of both parties, who discourage their followers from being disruptive or violent, Trump encourages it. Remember all that go-ahead-shut-him-up-I'll-pay-your-legal-bills business? No need to get offended. This isn't a Democratic vs. Republican issue. It's a civilized world vs. Trump issue. I was afraid of that. I should have added <she said dryly> because yes, I was trying to be humorous.
On the serious side, yes, I do remember that business but I fail to see how it justifies "Trump is responsible" when Bernie or Hillary supporters are aggressive and nasty at Trump rallies. www.latimes.com/politics/la-na-trailguide-04282016-outside-of-trump-rally-protesters-grow-violent-1461899538-htmlstory.html I really don't see how anyone can condone blocking intersections, throwing trash at passing traffic, trashing a police vehicle, and hitting Trump supporters all because you hate what Trump has said.
It's okay not to like the guy and hate what he has said, but condoning the behavior of aggressive protestors because "well, it's Trump, we hate him" is completely hypocritical when the same behavior at other rallies is unacceptable to you. Bad behavior does not justify other bad behavior.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 14, 2016 16:29:42 GMT
I will continue to base my support of a particular candidate on the behavior and platform of the candidate himself, not people who are or claim to be "supporters." We're not electing supporters. How about the character of the candidate? These supporters are inspired by Sander's message. So yes he is responsible for their actions. All he had to do is at his rallies say something like "I support your right to protest at other candidates' rallies however let's tone down the behavior" or something like that. But he chooses not to. To me his silence puts him on the same level as Trump and I had always thought Bernie was better then that. His inaction is making me think maybe he is not. |
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Post by lucyg on May 14, 2016 20:00:19 GMT
oh, for Pete's sake. First of all, I'm sure there's a sense of humor buried in there somewhere. Please look for it. Second, seriously ... unlike the other candidates, of both parties, who discourage their followers from being disruptive or violent, Trump encourages it. Remember all that go-ahead-shut-him-up-I'll-pay-your-legal-bills business? No need to get offended. This isn't a Democratic vs. Republican issue. It's a civilized world vs. Trump issue. I was afraid of that. I should have added <she said dryly> because yes, I was trying to be humorous.
On the serious side, yes, I do remember that business but I fail to see how it justifies "Trump is responsible" when Bernie or Hillary supporters are aggressive and nasty at Trump rallies. www.latimes.com/politics/la-na-trailguide-04282016-outside-of-trump-rally-protesters-grow-violent-1461899538-htmlstory.html I really don't see how anyone can condone blocking intersections, throwing trash at passing traffic, trashing a police vehicle, and hitting Trump supporters all because you hate what Trump has said.
It's okay not to like the guy and hate what he has said, but condoning the behavior of aggressive protestors because "well, it's Trump, we hate him" is completely hypocritical when the same behavior at other rallies is unacceptable to you. Bad behavior does not justify other bad behavior.
I don't think anyone is blaming Trump for other candidates' supporters harassing his supporters, if that's what you're saying. What I said was that I don't hold most candidates responsible for their supporters' most extreme behavior because the candidates themselves discourage it. In Trump's case, he has egged it on in the past ... he does seem to have toned that down now, after several violent displays by his supporters against protestors. I can't speak for anyone else, but I thought that's what we were talking about. |
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Post by Merge on May 14, 2016 21:24:38 GMT
I will continue to base my support of a particular candidate on the behavior and platform of the candidate himself, not people who are or claim to be "supporters." We're not electing supporters. How about the character of the candidate? These supporters are inspired by Sander's message. So yes he is responsible for their actions. All he had to do is at his rallies say something like "I support your right to protest at other candidates' rallies however let's tone down the behavior" or something like that. But he chooses not to. To me his silence puts him on the same level as Trump and I had always thought Bernie was better then that. His inaction is making me think maybe he is not. Making any statement at all directed at the people behaving badly suggests that they are operating at his bidding and that he is responsible for their behavior. Unlike Trump, Bernie has never said or suggested that his supporters should behave this way. How is he responsible for what people claiming to be his supporters do? My neighbor with the Bernie sign in his lawn is a jackass who leaves his dog tied up in the back yard all day. I was cut off on the freeway by someone with a Bernie bumper sticker the other day. Since Bernie has not said at a rally that he is opposed to these actions, is he tacitly endorsing them? |
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Post by mollycoddle on May 14, 2016 21:34:03 GMT
How about the character of the candidate? These supporters are inspired by Sander's message. So yes he is responsible for their actions. All he had to do is at his rallies say something like "I support your right to protest at other candidates' rallies however let's tone down the behavior" or something like that. But he chooses not to. To me his silence puts him on the same level as Trump and I had always thought Bernie was better then that. His inaction is making me think maybe he is not. Making any statement at all directed at the people behaving badly suggests that they are operating at his bidding and that he is responsible for their behavior. Unlike Trump, Bernie has never said or suggested that his supporters should behave this way. How is he responsible for what people claiming to be his supporters do? My neighbor with the Bernie sign in his lawn is a jackass who leaves his dog tied up in the back yard all day. I was cut off on the freeway by someone with a Bernie bumper sticker the other day. Since Bernie has not said at a rally that he is opposed to these actions, is he tacitly endorsing them? That's disingenuous. Of course Bernie can't dictate how his supporters act all of the time. What he can do is to ask that they refrain online from aggressive name-calling. And frankly, if Hillary supporters are also doing this, then, yes, she should also ask them to refrain from such juvenile behavior. We have a Trump to beat! |
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Post by Merge on May 14, 2016 21:47:59 GMT
I can't think of a single candidate whose supporters (real or purported) have never said ugly things on the Internet, or behaved badly in public.
I guess I'd rather focus on issues than hold one candidate to an arbitrary standard that isn't met by anyone. YMMV.
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Post by mollycoddle on May 14, 2016 22:07:02 GMT
I can't think of a single candidate whose supporters (real or purported) have never said ugly things on the Internet, or behaved badly in public. I guess I'd rather focus on issues than hold one candidate to an arbitrary standard that isn't met by anyone. YMMV. Me too. At this stage of the election, I hope that most liberals back off the negative language and focus on the greater threat: Trump. I hope that it happens soon. |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 14, 2016 22:20:28 GMT
How about the character of the candidate? These supporters are inspired by Sander's message. So yes he is responsible for their actions. All he had to do is at his rallies say something like "I support your right to protest at other candidates' rallies however let's tone down the behavior" or something like that. But he chooses not to. To me his silence puts him on the same level as Trump and I had always thought Bernie was better then that. His inaction is making me think maybe he is not. Making any statement at all directed at the people behaving badly suggests that they are operating at his bidding and that he is responsible for their behavior. Unlike Trump, Bernie has never said or suggested that his supporters should behave this way. How is he responsible for what people claiming to be his supporters do? My neighbor with the Bernie sign in his lawn is a jackass who leaves his dog tied up in the back yard all day. I was cut off on the freeway by someone with a Bernie bumper sticker the other day. Since Bernie has not said at a rally that he is opposed to these actions, is he tacitly endorsing them? I totally disagree. One can be a douche bag regardless of who they support as a presidential candidate. And some in their enthusiasm for their candidate of choice can become a douche bags. There is no question Bernie has struck a cord with a lot of young supporters and there is no question some of supporters have become very enthusiastic about Bernie. And there is no question some are behaving as douche bags. And their is no question these supporters are out there protesting under Bernie's name. And because some these Bernie supporters are acting as douche bags then I think he has a strong obligation to tell these enthusiastic supporters to tone it down. Because I suspect it's because these enthusiastic supporters are so wrapped in their support for Bernie they are acting as douche bags. And I would like to think if he told them to tone it down they would. But by him ignoring it, it is to me anyhow, a signal from Bernie it's ok for these enthusiastic supporters to act as douche bags. There are some protests that have no clear leader for the lack of a better term. An example are the Occupy Wall Street folks and the various other Occupy groups. Tell me who the one person was who fired up these guys? While with the protesters that tore up that little girl's sign it was clear who the person was that fired them up because they were holding signs that said "Bernie Bernie Bernie". So yes he has an obligation to tell his enthusiastic supporters to tone it down. And we are going to disagree on this. |
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Post by Merge on May 14, 2016 22:25:10 GMT
*shrug* OK, if this is an important issue to you, you have the right to act accordingly.
I'm more interested in Sanders' own ideas and political actions because I think those are more important in choosing a president than whether he comes out and states the obvious about some crackpots who were shouting his name.
But you do you.
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Post by refugeepea on May 14, 2016 22:31:47 GMT
So that makes Hillary responsible for their actions. All she had to do was say I support your right to protest, but let's not take down Facebook pages of my opponent or something like that. But she chooses not to. So that makes her just as bad as Trump; silly Crooked Hillary. |
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And I think that Bernie is very much an "if you don't like it or don't agree then you need to show people that" type. However you can do that peacefully, legally and without malice, and those that don't follow those rules are wrong no matter their intent.
