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Post by kellybelly77 on May 14, 2016 18:34:41 GMT
My sister had been engaged for about a year with the wedding date coming in about another year. She was having some medical problems and was 34 and her DR told her that if she wanted kids she better start now because it was going to be harder the longer she waited. She stopped her pill and was pregnant within a few months. Her first baby was due 2 weeks before their originally scheduled wedding date. So they pushed it off. Baby came, everything was fine and they rescheduled.
She got married and found out she was pregnant several weeks later. After baby 2 came she had her tubes tied and will have to have a hysterectomy in the next year or two.
Everyone has their own reasons and I guess I just don't understand why people care which order it all happens. My sister might not have been able to have kids had she waited.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 14, 2016 19:16:13 GMT
In some cases, I think people just want to save for a "pinterest" wedding and then have surprise babies. I feel (many will disagree) if he is good enough to live with and make babies with, he is good enough to marry... stop pinning things and just get married. The wedding means nothing compared to the marriage.
I am not trying to sound perfect..... I am just old and have seen it all. I and some of my friends did things in the "wrong" order and regret it even 20 plus years later.
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Post by anniefb on May 14, 2016 19:39:41 GMT
I'm old fashioned. I like seeing a pregnancy happen after the wedding. I don't judge when it happens in a different order, but I'm just being honest.  Yeah me too. But it seems to be the exception now  |
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RosieKat
Drama Llama
PeaJect #12
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Post by RosieKat on May 14, 2016 21:05:20 GMT
I care, but not deeply. Like, if and when the time comes for my kids, I'd honestly rather not have them do this, or even (gasp) live together. But, if it happens, I won't be threatening to disown them or anything. I'm traditional enough to prefer it the traditional way, but I also know enough to know that true commitment isn't necessarily defined by marriage, either.
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Post by bostonmama on May 14, 2016 21:56:37 GMT
It begs the question whether women are interested in a longterm partner, someone to share the rest of their lives with, or more a means to an end, someone decent to impregnate them? That's a crude oversimplification, but is a man little more than a sperm donor, paycheck, and other half of a Pinterest wedding to some?
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Post by refugeepea on May 14, 2016 22:08:12 GMT
It begs the question whether women are interested in a longterm partner, someone to share the rest of their lives with, or more a means to an end, someone decent to impregnate them? That's a crude oversimplification, but is a man little more than a sperm donor, paycheck, and other half of a Pinterest wedding to some? I'm sorry, but what?? What does this statement even mean?  That WAS really crude! The people I know who had baby and then got married wanted to get finances in order and that was more important than spending a lot of money on a wedding. |
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Post by bostonmama on May 14, 2016 22:15:16 GMT
It begs the question whether women are interested in a longterm partner, someone to share the rest of their lives with, or more a means to an end, someone decent to impregnate them? That's a crude oversimplification, but is a man little more than a sperm donor, paycheck, and other half of a Pinterest wedding to some? I'm sorry, but what?? What does this statement even mean? That WAS really crude! The people I know who had baby and then got married wanted to get finances in order and that was more important than spending a lot of money on a wedding. This is my point; I was being sarcastic. Some people want a FB picture perfect life and will do whatever it takes to have it, even if that means jumping into things or spending irresponsibly on a wedding instead of investing in their marriage, etc. |
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Post by refugeepea on May 14, 2016 22:17:03 GMT
I'm sorry, but what?? What does this statement even mean? That WAS really crude! The people I know who had baby and then got married wanted to get finances in order and that was more important than spending a lot of money on a wedding. This is my point; I was being sarcastic. Some people want a FB picture perfect life and will do whatever it takes to have it, even if that means jumping into things or spending irresponsibly on a wedding instead of investing in their marriage, etc. Ok, the sarcasm went over my head!  |
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Post by bostonmama on May 14, 2016 22:27:15 GMT
This is my point; I was being sarcastic. Some people want a FB picture perfect life and will do whatever it takes to have it, even if that means jumping into things or spending irresponsibly on a wedding instead of investing in their marriage, etc. Ok, the sarcasm went over my head! And sometimes my sarcasm falls flat |
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Post by Deleted on May 14, 2016 22:27:55 GMT
I honestly think to each their own on that one. I wanted to get married first before we had kids. I wanted DH and I to have time together just the 2 of for a while before we started a family. We got married in 2001 and had ODS in 2004. DH had severe medical issues as a child and was told he would never be able to have kids. So we kind of thought that we would never have any, so we weren't in any rush to try either.
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azredhead
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Post by azredhead on May 14, 2016 23:47:41 GMT
In my neices case , she has NO desire to get married. She has two kids now. Granted they were super young when they had the first one. But the guy has been great and matured a lot. They both have really. He's has stayed around. He's the one that wants to get married. They were engaged for a while but then she freaked out and they split up for a short time. I think there were some other issues but they're still together and so far doing okay. She's going to nursinig school. He wants to be an EMT/ fire fighter.
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Post by Deleted on May 15, 2016 11:39:39 GMT
I was thinking more about this and reading this tread reminds me to "nag" my own kids on the subject. I feel picking someone to parent your child is the most important choice you will ever make. Even if the marriage fails, this person must be mentally healthy, secure, and a good example in all ways.
I was so naive when I got married. I did not worry about nor even put much thought into making sure I was picking the very best father for my future children.
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Post by brina on May 15, 2016 11:57:26 GMT
Looking at my younger cousins and friend's kids, yes, a lot seem to be having first child before the wedding. Most of them seem happy - at least to the same degree as my friends and I were at that point in our lives.
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Post by lisae on May 15, 2016 12:05:37 GMT
For generations, family has started 'out of order' in that the baby came or at least the pregnancy before the marriage. It has just become more socially acceptable to wait to get married when you want and even have the baby as part of the wedding. Or if the relationship falters, just not get married at all.
What people used to do if she became pregnant is hurry up and marry and a 7 month or 6 month baby would come along. Sometimes a divorce came along as well.
I don't know that either method is resulting in more or better marriages. I know people who 'had to get married' who divorced and some that are still married after decades.
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Post by Deleted on May 15, 2016 12:30:46 GMT
I'm really old fashioned for being young and see this a lot or just babies even without engagement in my area. I know if we were to have done this, financially we'd be far better off. I could qualify for childcare and child tax breaks on my own in my state but there is a max we hit as a married couple and don't qualify for either. If I were to file taxes with just my child I'd get back equal to what we get as a couple with a child get back - but my husband on his own would get a whole lot more back filing single on his income too. Sadly a few of the women I know of openly speak how they also qualify for state healthcare that is low/no cost for themselves and child/kids and the cost of having a baby on it is very low. They also talk about how in our state it provides them with car seats too so they don't have to buy those either. (We know the spouses well and buying a car seat wouldn't be a hardship). It kind of disgusts me the financial penalties to being married and having a child in some cases. Then the women who are with partners for years, living together, staying home to raise kids (thus openly speaking of claiming no income) then getting social assistance programs and tons and tons and tons back on taxes from doing it "that way." I say this as in passing they speak of it. I think ultimately there can be a lot of financial benefits to couples going that route - and I wonder if celebrities have tax benefits to not being married. I completely get this. My husband and I have said for years that we did it all wrong. That we should have just lived together and we would have had so much given to us, healthcare, childcare, college etc. But we did it the "right way" around here and we now pay for everyone else to live together. |
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Post by bigbundt on May 15, 2016 12:31:25 GMT
I was thinking more about this and reading this tread reminds me to "nag" my own kids on the subject. I feel picking someone to parent your child is the most important choice you will ever make. Even if the marriage fails, this person must be mentally healthy, secure, and a good example in all ways. I tell anyone who is dating and want to have kids, you aren't making one decision, you are making two. Your perfect partner may be a crappy parent, choose wisely. The order in which people create their families doesn't bother me but I guess I am semi-traditional. I would be lying if I didn't say that I would prefer my own daughters to be married before having kids. I want them to have the marital legal benefits provided, some time alone with their spouses before the drudgery of day to day child rearing comes to be, and I want them to have a partner to raise kids with. Raising kids is hard, it is nice to have someone help shoulder the load but that has to be the RIGHT person otherwise it would just be easier to do it alone. And that has less to do with tradition and appearances but more with the idea that this "order" will make their lives easier. In the end though I want them to be happy and not end up with douche bags. |
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Post by peano on May 15, 2016 14:40:36 GMT
I realize by writing this I may be opening a can of worms, and will probably sound like I'm 150 years old, but this is the place to discuss and get a variety of opinions and insight. At least in my neck of the woods, there seems to be a trend of getting engaged, getting pregnant and then getting married at a later time. Actually, I feel like I've seen this a lot on various wedding shows and it's clearly been the celebrity way of doing things for a while. I guess I just don't understand it. There's a declared intention of getting married first so it doesn't seem to be a matter of people not wanting to "get a piece of paper" It doesn't seem like all these situations can be "oopsie" situations either. IMO, having a baby together is a FAR bigger commitment than getting married in that your lives are bound together forever, so it can't be a fear of permanent commitment issue. One mom soon-to-be-bride talked almost instantly upon getting pregnant that she was so excited to have a baby to dress up and participate in the wedding. I mean that's not the big reason right? Practically speaking it seems like it would be easier/make more sense to get married first. DH and I were engaged and bought a house together when we were about 40. Suddenly my biological clock started chiming, when I had always assumed I didn't want children. Because of my age, I thought it might take a while to get pregnant so we started trying before we got married while trying to decide what kind of wedding we wanted--big wedding or elopement. I got pregnant literally the first time we tried in November and we had a quiet justice of the peace ceremony the following February. I am am kind of with you but it seems hypocritical to be judgy about people who do what I did. I guess one difference was the fact that we were mature and we realistically were sort of pressed for time. |
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raindancer
Pearl Clutcher
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Post by raindancer on May 15, 2016 15:30:00 GMT
I don't think this actually bears out to more or less true statistically. It's merely perception based in your own interactions. Teen pregnancies are down and the age of a woman at her first pregnancy is slightly increased. And the rate of single women having babies is also not significantly different as far as I am aware from the previous decades.
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Post by Deleted on May 15, 2016 16:30:59 GMT
The older I get, the less I care how the baby get here.
Unless it is my son. I have too many friends who have "lost" their grandchildren, because their sons never married the baby's mother. I think I would die of broken heart if that happened to me. Ftr, the young couples drifted apart and moms met somebody, got married and moved away.
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Post by cindytred on May 16, 2016 2:11:30 GMT
IMO, having a baby together is a FAR bigger commitment than getting married in that your lives are bound together forever, so it can't be a fear of permanent commitment issue. I must be 150 years old too because I agree with you and the above statement 100%. In trying to come up with a reason why this is a trend with this generation - it could be because everything else (sex, drugs, living together, etc.) has been done by previous generations - so this is their "thing". |
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Post by 950nancy on May 16, 2016 2:21:48 GMT
The older I get, the less I care how the baby get here. Unless it is my son. I have too many friends who have "lost" their grandchildren, because their sons never married the baby's mother. I think I would die of broken heart if that happened to me. Ftr, the young couples drifted apart and moms met somebody, got married and moved away. I have friends where this has happened also. So sad for the grandparents. |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 16, 2016 4:07:33 GMT
The older I get, the less I care how the baby get here. Unless it is my son. I have too many friends who have "lost" their grandchildren, because their sons never married the baby's mother. I think I would die of broken heart if that happened to me. Ftr, the young couples drifted apart and moms met somebody, got married and moved away. I have friends where this has happened also. So sad for the grandparents. It is beyond sad. My neighbor raised her grandson, until he was five. She is still heartbroken. |
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Post by jassy on May 16, 2016 12:48:48 GMT
Sorry I never came back to this thread! Busy, busy prom weekend!
I really enjoyed reading different viewpoints.
My point wasn't really baby without marriage, but the idea that the couple plans to get married anyway (engaged) but just chooses to do it out of order. A lot of you gave me things to consider than I hadn't though.
I do think there are still benefits to being married over all. Some of the engaged women I know with babies are stay at home moms. That seems dangerous to me. If the relationship breaks up and the woman doesn't have a job, she's entitled to nothing that they've built together.
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Post by anxiousmom on May 16, 2016 13:26:57 GMT
I have friends where this has happened also. So sad for the grandparents. It is beyond sad. My neighbor raised her grandson, until he was five. She is still heartbroken. My kids were young when I divorced and I remember my (now) ex-mother in law coming to me in tears-she had an actual, real list of all the ways she could be a good grandmother. Apparently grandparents losing touch with their grandkids happens enough that she was terrified that I would some how block her access to the boys. Totally not my style, and she even said that, but she was scared that because I am so close to my parents that they would just gradually fade away. (Personally, I felt the conversation was more of an indictment against her son than me and had to reassure her that even if he fell down on the job I would make sure the kids had a relationship with her.) It was the most pitifully sad conversation I have ever had with someone. I think I cried harder than she did. |
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That WAS really crude!
