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Post by disneypal on Jun 17, 2016 14:09:47 GMT
When the little boy fell into the gorilla enclosure recently and the gorilla was killed to rescue the boy, there was so much outrage (by people in general) about this and the parents, particularly the mother because she was there, was blamed for this - many people saying she should be charged. Luckily her little boy was fine in the end.
However, with this alligator at WDW, which resulted in 5 alligators being killed, most people (in general) seem to be sympathetic with the parents and are not really blaming them.
Personally, I don't think either set of parents are to blame - both incidents happened so quickly. While I hate to see any animal killed, a human life is much more important, no matter what.
I'm just curious, why do you think the majority of people were upset about the gorilla killing and blamed the mom but the majority of people are not upset about the alligator killings and don't blame the parents?
Why do you think that is?
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Dalai Mama
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Post by Dalai Mama on Jun 17, 2016 14:18:32 GMT
Unless the two-year-old at Disney expressed a wish to get close to the alligator, I don't see the two as comparable.
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Nink
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Jul 1, 2014 23:30:44 GMT
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Post by Nink on Jun 17, 2016 14:20:01 GMT
This is just my opinion. But with the gorilla, the boy had to actively seek out and get into the enclosure. The gorilla was in an enclosure. This wasn't an act of the mom and boy just standing there and the gorilla reached out and grabbed him and pulled him in. The boy even made it known he wanted to go in.
With the alligator incident, they were just there and an alligator came out of nowhere and snatched him. Now, had barriers been in place and the little boy said "I wanna swim the gators" and the mom wasn't paying attention and let him have an opportunity to climb over the fence and swim under the barriers, then I'd feel it was the same.
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AnotherPea
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Jan 4, 2015 1:47:52 GMT
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Post by AnotherPea on Jun 17, 2016 14:21:32 GMT
Gorilla mom was ignoring dangerous behavior. Alligator mom was doing the typical thing with her kid. Gorilla mom was not paying attention but alligator dad was beside his baby. Gorilla mom screamed and agitated thhe gorilla. Alligator dad dove into dangerous waters to retrieve his son. Gorilla child survived but the alligator killed a baby.
Gorillas are more special than alligators, to most. They are endangered and more closely related to our species. Humans are not typically on their menu.
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Post by pierkiss on Jun 17, 2016 14:25:41 GMT
For starters, I believe aligators are no longer listed as endangered. There are now way too many of them, and they are often a nuisance. Gorillas, on the other hand, are still endangered and they are not native to this country. Therefore, I believe people think of them as being more rare, and majestic and need taking care of at all costs.
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Post by mimi3566 on Jun 17, 2016 14:38:04 GMT
I don't think in either case the parents are to blame and agree that the child's life comes first...with that being said, my outrage regarding the gorilla is over the fact that the gorilla is kept in an enclosure in a zoo at all. period. Whereas the gators are not...they are wild living as gators do.
I think WDW needs to take advantage of this opportunity to educate their guests about the gator. Perhaps this will go along way in educating people from around the world about the Florida gator...with knowledge comes power. The power will be that humans will learn to live in harmony and respect with nature. For Florida that nature includes gators... A win, win for all.
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Post by pjaye on Jun 17, 2016 14:40:31 GMT
I'm just curious, why do you think the majority of people were upset about the gorilla killing and blamed the mom but the majority of people are not upset about the alligator killings and don't blame the parents? I also don't think the two are remotely the same. I was very vocal about gorilla incident and I did and still do blame the mother. Gorillas are endangered and he died for nothing he did wrong. In the alligator incident, I don't think the parents are to blame, they didn't have enough information to be able to predict that their child was in any danger of attack. They didn't deliberately leave him unattended where they knew/thought a wild animal would be. Sure there was a no swimming sign...but they weren't swimming. If the managers of the resort knew or had good reason to suspect that alligators were in the water, then they should have had better signage outlining that there was a risk from wild animals. In that case I do think the resort is to blame. However if they can prove they didn't know, or had no reason to suspect or had taken steps to ensure there were no alligators in the water...and one got in anyway, then I think it does qualify has a horrible accident. And even though it is still horrible to kill wild animals for no good reason, they aren't an endangered species either. In the first scenario, I think the zoo staff made the right call, as heart breaking as it was, BUT the gorilla did nothing wrong, it was the mother's fault he ended up dead. In the second scenario, the alligator DID do something wrong, even though it was only following it's natural prey drive and other alligators in that same situation would also be likely to do the same thing. It's a family resort and to the best of their ability they can't allow wild animals to live in the lake and to kill visitors. At the zoo you know there will be wild animals there and you expect them to be safely contained in their enclosures...which they were. If people are dumb enough to get in there or parents don't supervise their kids, then that's the fault of the people...not the fault of the animals. At a Disney resort with a "beach" if you are a visitor and don't know about alligators in the area, then it's not natural to assume that your child might be snatched by a wild animal off that beach is there aren't signs or other warnings present. The lack of warnings (if they knew) is the fault of the people who run the resort, but not the fault of the parents. The gorilla was innocent, but the alligator was guilty. Sure I would have preferred they "relocate" rather than kill those animals, but from what I'm hearing they aren't exactly rare...and if there is no place to take them too, then what else could they do with them except "put them down" hopefully quickly and humanely and without causing them undue suffering.
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caro
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Post by caro on Jun 17, 2016 14:46:41 GMT
Disney creates an atmosphere of fantasy and everything is magical, the happiest place on earth, therefore, a safe place.
A zoo does not. Although there were barriers in place that child managed to get in the enclosure.
Who would have thought this would happen to either child?
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Deleted
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May 18, 2024 0:51:03 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Jun 17, 2016 14:55:04 GMT
I don't see any comparison either.
One took place in a clearly marked, Gorilla enclosure and the child was allowed to climb, with a lack of supervision, and make his way into the enclosure. The other took place in a magical theme park with a purpose made beach and man made lake with a "no swimming" sign where they regularly show outdoor evening movies to the public. Both parents were supervising a toddler, wadding along the edge with just his feet in the water. When one is aware of a higher risk before hand the level of care and supervision differs greatly to what one would have if the risks were not obviously apparent as was the case with the gator.
As for killing the animals I was heartbroken when they took the decision to shoot the gorilla which was an endangers species. The gator? I have no idea why they needed to kill 5 of them as I don't know enough about them to form an opinion. Was it to try and recover the child's body? was it because if he ( the gator) had done it once he was more likely to do it again? do the authorities usually kill the fully grown ones regularly for any reason?.....as I said I don't know enough of their habits to form an opinion.
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Deleted
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May 18, 2024 0:51:03 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Jun 17, 2016 15:01:48 GMT
I think WDW needs to take advantage of this opportunity to educate their guests about the gator. Perhaps this will go along way in educating people from around the world about the Florida gator...with knowledge comes power. The power will be that humans will learn to live in harmony and respect with nature. For Florida that nature includes gators... A win, win for all. I don't think it's a matter of living in harmony with the gators at all. Most people would if they knew that they were in that lake or they knew that there would be a possibility of them being there. It's the unknown existence of them in that particular environment that has caused this terrible tragedy.
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Post by mommaho on Jun 17, 2016 15:06:52 GMT
Just my thoughts -
Society is so full of judges and self professed experts it drives me crazy! Yes, everyone is entitled to their opinion but it is a tragedy for the Nebraska family and a horrific scare for the Ohio family.
Education at Disney regarding the caution of alligators is warranted and necessary, and secure enclosures at the zoo are a must. Common sense must prevail in both incidents.
I couldn't even imagine myself in either of their positions and I pray that I will never have to do so.
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Post by mimi3566 on Jun 17, 2016 15:08:42 GMT
I think WDW needs to take advantage of this opportunity to educate their guests about the gator. Perhaps this will go along way in educating people from around the world about the Florida gator...with knowledge comes power. The power will be that humans will learn to live in harmony and respect with nature. For Florida that nature includes gators... A win, win for all. I don't think it's a matter of living in harmony with the gators at all. Most people would if they knew that they were in that lake or they knew that there would be a possibility of them being there. It's the unknown existence of them in that particular environment that has caused this terrible tragedy. I totally agree with you which is why I said that WDW needs to use this as an opportunity to educate their guests since they entertain thousands of guests from all over the world annually. I can't think of a grander scale to accomplish this. Do they need to post better signage, sure...but that doesn't really teach anyone anything about the gator other than they are there. I think they should issue pamphlets to their guest in the future making them aware of why the signs are there.
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Post by gar on Jun 17, 2016 15:11:16 GMT
It's ok for kids to paddle at the beach, its not ok for kids to go into a zoo enclosure. One is open to the general public to use, the other has barriers.
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Deleted
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May 18, 2024 0:51:03 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Jun 17, 2016 15:17:09 GMT
I don't think it's a matter of living in harmony with the gators at all. Most people would if they knew that they were in that lake or they knew that there would be a possibility of them being there. It's the unknown existence of them in that particular environment that has caused this terrible tragedy. I totally agree with you which is why I said that WDW needs to use this as an opportunity to educate their guests since they entertain thousands of guests from all over the world annually. I can't think of a grander scale to accomplish this. Do they need to post better signage, sure...but that doesn't really teach anyone anything about the gator other than they are there. I think they should issue pamphlets to their guest in the future making them aware of why the signs are there. I think most people know, if they saw a sign, be it picture or words " alligators" KNOW what that would mean and why the signs were there. Tourists are not that uneducated! Many of us know of the existence of gators in Florida but many of us wouldn't have expected to see them on a man made beach at Disney or walking down Florida mall for that matter!
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Post by bc2ca on Jun 17, 2016 15:22:37 GMT
It's ok for kids to paddle at the beach, its not ok for kids to go into a zoo enclosure. One is open to the general public to use, the other has barriers. Other than both situations involving a small child and wild animal, there really isn't much else they have in common. SaveSave
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georgiapea
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Post by georgiapea on Jun 17, 2016 15:24:29 GMT
The gorilla was not a 'native species'. Killing alligators will only reduce the population in that particular body of water, and only for a short time.
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Post by mimi3566 on Jun 17, 2016 15:25:18 GMT
I totally agree with you which is why I said that WDW needs to use this as an opportunity to educate their guests since they entertain thousands of guests from all over the world annually. I can't think of a grander scale to accomplish this. Do they need to post better signage, sure...but that doesn't really teach anyone anything about the gator other than they are there. I think they should issue pamphlets to their guest in the future making them aware of why the signs are there. I think most people know, if they saw a sign, be it picture or words " alligators" KNOW what that would mean and why the signs were there. Tourists are not that uneducated! Many of us know of the existence of gators in Florida but many of us wouldn't have expected to see them on a man made beach at Disney or walking down Florida mall for that matter! Nevermind...I'm not going to argue with you about this...apparently, I'm not getting my point across.
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Post by JustCallMeMommy on Jun 17, 2016 15:50:41 GMT
I think most people can much more clearly see themselves in the place of the mom at Disney World. While our kids have escaped us once or twice, they haven't wriggled past us through 3 barriers and into a gorilla enclosure. We hope there had to be at least some element of not watching the child closely enough for the child to get there, because if there wasn't that element, it could happen to any of us.
As for Disney World, I think most of us can picture taking our child down to the beach at our hotel to watch the fireworks. We have children who have tried desperately to get into water elements where they probably weren't really supposed to be - and we probably even let them splash in some of these shallow water elements (I'm thinking about things like the little squirty fountains at the local malls). I know I splashed with Alison in waters at local lakes that look an awfully lot like the pictures of the beach at the Grand Floridian (though I did know about alligators and amoebas in the lakes at DW). In this case, it is really hard not to put ourselves in the place of these parents to say that it couldn't happen to us in a similar situation.
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oh yvonne
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Jun 26, 2014 0:45:23 GMT
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Post by oh yvonne on Jun 17, 2016 16:00:04 GMT
I'm seeing stuff on social media that people are calling this a racial thing. They are upset that more aren't blaming the parents of the child at Disney World for neglect or similar like they did the kid who fell at the zoo.
I don't blame either parent in either scenario, and I was appalled and upset at the threads here crucifying the mother whose kid got into the gorilla compound.
Accidents happen. I'm sick of everyone pointing fingers and ripping these poor traumatized parents apart.
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Post by epeanymous on Jun 17, 2016 16:13:34 GMT
FWIW, I think both situations were accidents and I don't blame the parents (or the zoo, or Disney).
I think at least part of the distinction for people, in addition to the other things people have mentioned, is that people are upset by the killing of a gorilla, but not as much by the killing of alligators.
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Post by lisae on Jun 17, 2016 17:27:50 GMT
Everyone including the mother and child knew the gorilla was there and that getting so close you could fall in was dangerous.
No one expects the 'happiest place on earth' to have an alligator come up from the water and snatch up their child. If you think about it, you are in Florida with lots of water and lots of alligators but you just don't think about it. Disney is a fantasy land where happy memories are made. That's the state I think are in when you are there. The biggest thing I've worried about at Disney was planning my day to avoid the longest lines.
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Deleted
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May 18, 2024 0:51:03 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Jun 17, 2016 18:00:09 GMT
I classify them both as accidents and don't hold the parent in Cincinnati responsible. As for society's reaction ... maybe we learned some compassion between the first and second incidents?
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Post by anxiousmom on Jun 17, 2016 19:40:16 GMT
FWIW, I think both situations were accidents and I don't blame the parents (or the zoo, or Disney). I think at least part of the distinction for people, in addition to the other things people have mentioned, is that people are upset by the killing of a gorilla, but not as much by the killing of alligators. This is what I think. Gorillas are much easier to ... like ... than an alligator. Alligators are scary with big teeth and give us all a primitive shiver of fear. And we are used to alligators dying-we make shoes and purses out of them, we eat the meat from them and they aren't all warm and cuddly. I don't blame the parents in any way, shape or form. In fact, I would go so far as to say that if there had of been charges leveled at the parents, I would have written a letter to whomever made that decision and let them know in no uncertain terms that they had lost their damn mind.
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Post by mlynn on Jun 17, 2016 19:56:37 GMT
I'm seeing stuff on social media that people are calling this a racial thing. They are upset that more aren't blaming the parents of the child at Disney World for neglect or similar like they did the kid who fell at the zoo. Interesting. I do not know the race of either child. Now that I think about it, wasn't the child in the gorilla enclosure blonde?
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Post by femalebusiness on Jun 17, 2016 20:01:15 GMT
Gorillas are human like, alligators are snake like. That is at least part of the outrage over killing a gorilla vs killing a gator.
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smginaz Suzy
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Post by smginaz Suzy on Jun 17, 2016 20:22:44 GMT
I heard there was plenty of mcjudgery going on with the alligator incident, although I didn't read any of it. There is altogether too much social media vigilante behavior that occurs. Mob rule internet-protected anonymity and all.
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buggirl47
Full Member
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Apr 7, 2015 21:54:54 GMT
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Post by buggirl47 on Jun 17, 2016 20:30:47 GMT
i dont see it as the same. the one the kid had to climb and get into an enclosure. second one the alligator came up and snatched a boy where he was "suppose to be".
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jayfab
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Post by jayfab on Jun 17, 2016 21:54:59 GMT
I'm seeing stuff on social media that people are calling this a racial thing. They are upset that more aren't blaming the parents of the child at Disney World for neglect or similar like they did the kid who fell at the zoo. I don't blame either parent in either scenario, and I was appalled and upset at the threads here crucifying the mother whose kid got into the gorilla compound. Accidents happen. I'm sick of everyone pointing fingers and ripping these poor traumatized parents apart. I think some are thinking it is racial because when the gorilla thing happened the parents were investigated, and things from years ago were brought up even for the father, who wasn't even there. There might have been an investigation on the alligator parents, but nothing has been reported that I know of. Or maybe there's nothing there to report. Don't know I don't blame either family. Horrible things can happen in the blink of an eye.
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Post by librarylady on Jun 17, 2016 22:18:14 GMT
Alligators are still a protected species in Texas. I don't know about the laws in Florida.
A repercussion of the incident--a local lake in Fort Worth is now working to relocate an alligator that has been living in that lake for awhile. The alligator will be taken to a refuge that has other 'gators and hopefully it will live happily ever after.
I know how alligators are, but the sign that says "no swimming" does not indicate that any alligators are near. IMO, Disneyworld is at fault for not clearly indicating where the alligators are hanging out and warning guests of the danger. I probably would have let my child wade in that shallow water also.
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Post by anonrefugee on Jun 18, 2016 0:18:24 GMT
Was this posted elsewhere? A mother shows photos of her son playing in same spot, within the hour of gator attack. www.people.com/people/mobile/article/0,,20981907_21013168,00.html I think Disney should have had better signage, and would not be surprised if it was considered and rejected. Big gator signs would take away some of the illusion of safety and magic. I can't compare the two events they are so different.
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