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Post by cajeanne on Oct 12, 2016 17:13:42 GMT
I was listening to a radio show a few days ago and a congressman from Northern California was asked his stance on illegal immigration. He called people who entered our country illegally undocumented Americans. Is this phrase accepted now? I was rather put off by this.
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Deleted
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May 2, 2024 0:45:36 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Oct 12, 2016 17:17:06 GMT
I do.
I don't think citizens own the term Americans. People who are living here long-term also qualify IMO.
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MizIndependent
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Quit your bullpoop.
Posts: 5,836
Jun 25, 2014 19:43:16 GMT
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Post by MizIndependent on Oct 12, 2016 17:22:03 GMT
Sure. I see "America" as a fairly general term referring to a land mass in the western hemisphere - either North or South America. However, this is not the prevailing opinion. Just google "America" and The United States is the first thing to pop up.
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Dalai Mama
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La Pea Boheme
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Jun 26, 2014 0:31:31 GMT
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Post by Dalai Mama on Oct 12, 2016 17:24:03 GMT
No, 'American' is a term I reserve for American citizens.
eta - yes, that also means that I don't refer to legal immigrants as American either.
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smartypants71
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Jun 25, 2014 22:47:49 GMT
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Post by smartypants71 on Oct 12, 2016 17:25:32 GMT
No, but mainly because I know people who have lived here for a long time (legally) who are not citizens and they identify themselves as Mexican, Scottish, Colombian, etc.
But hey, if they want to be called American, I'm ok with that too.
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Post by stampinfraulein on Oct 12, 2016 17:40:21 GMT
No.
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Post by nepean on Oct 12, 2016 17:42:18 GMT
NO.
I should clarify the following statement, by saying that I am a rule follower. So with that said:
I was a LEGAL alien in this country for 12 years. First with appropriate visa's and second with a green card (permanent resident). We went through the process the legal way, and it is a long and painstaking process. AND IT SHOULD BE. There are processes that are in place to PROTECT this country and when these processes are abused it is a slap in the face to EVERY citizen and everyone already in the process of becoming a citizen.
Last year we became official citizens of the United States of America. I can now call myself an American. Though, I am a dual citizen, so I call myself an Australian and an American.
***Edited to remove a poorly worded thought.
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Post by littlemama on Oct 12, 2016 17:43:34 GMT
American = Citizen of the United States
I don't think that people who do not have citizenship consider themselves American, anymore than I would consider myself French if I moved to France, but did not obtain citizenship.
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Post by Darcy Collins on Oct 12, 2016 17:47:46 GMT
My gut reaction was no. But I thought I'd turn good old Merriam for reference. I used Canadian, to get away from the whole use of American for United States of America versus one's continental status.
Surprisingly no discussion of citizenship at all. If one resides in Canada, you can call yourself Canadian, so I suppose the same could be true of American. Having said that, I typically think of a citizen only.
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Post by workingclassdog on Oct 12, 2016 17:50:43 GMT
No, 'American' is a term I reserve for American citizens. eta - yes, that also means that I don't refer to legal immigrants as American either.
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georgiapea
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Jun 27, 2014 18:02:10 GMT
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Post by georgiapea on Oct 12, 2016 17:58:00 GMT
No, if you snuck in under the radar you are an illegal alien. You only become an American citizen when you become naturalized.
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Dalai Mama
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Jun 26, 2014 0:31:31 GMT
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Post by Dalai Mama on Oct 12, 2016 18:00:33 GMT
My gut reaction was no. But I thought I'd turn good old Merriam for reference. I used Canadian, to get away from the whole use of American for United States of America versus one's continental status. Surprisingly no discussion of citizenship at all. If one resides in Canada, you can call yourself Canadian, so I suppose the same could be true of American. Having said that, I typically think of a citizen only. As both a native and inhabitant of Canada, most Canadians would disagree with M-W's definition.
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freebird
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'cause I'm free as a bird now
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Post by freebird on Oct 12, 2016 18:14:41 GMT
If you do not have citizenship, then no, I do not consider you to be an American.
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Post by lovinlife on Oct 12, 2016 18:16:29 GMT
No
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Deleted
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May 2, 2024 0:45:36 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Oct 12, 2016 18:18:36 GMT
What if someone immigrated here from South America? Or Central America?
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Post by gmcwife1 on Oct 12, 2016 18:18:46 GMT
American = Citizen of the United States I don't think that people who do not have citizenship consider themselves American, anymore than I would consider myself French if I moved to France, but did not obtain citizenship. I agree with this
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loco coco
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Post by loco coco on Oct 12, 2016 18:18:53 GMT
no
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Oct 12, 2016 18:19:42 GMT
Absolutely not.
And I'll go a step further and say that I consider them a criminal.
There are ways to enter this country legally. It is not as if our borders are closed and we don't welcome immigrants. But we have laws and there is no reason that we should not uphold the laws that we as a country have established.
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Post by scrappyoutlaw on Oct 12, 2016 18:20:48 GMT
ETA: As a United States citizen I can now vote in elections. But as a visa holder, or green card holder (resident) I could not vote. I think this speaks for itself. American = ability to vote; Non American (resident, visa holder or illegal) =NOT able to vote. Out of curiosity, would you then consider convicted felons who cannot vote Americans, or no?
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Post by Basket1lady on Oct 12, 2016 18:21:31 GMT
No, 'American' is a term I reserve for American citizens. eta - yes, that also means that I don't refer to legal immigrants as American either. Agreed. And that doesn't mean that I don't have sympathy for those here illegally. I get that for so many, they were desperate. Until the politicians figure out what to do with all the illegal immigrants, I would not classify them as Americans. I do think that something needs to be done. I'm all for figuring out who and how to legalize them. Let them pay taxes and live in the light. (And I don't agree with the whole "those who come from North or South America are Americans." Canadians don't call themselves Americans. The term has come to mean those citizens of the United States of America.)
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garcia5050
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Jun 25, 2014 23:22:29 GMT
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Post by garcia5050 on Oct 12, 2016 18:26:40 GMT
I'm biased, but yep, I have tons of first cousins who came this to country illegally and remained that way for quite a while. They were very appreciative of their new country and assimilated quickly. A good number of them served in our military WHILE THEY WERE STILL ILLEGAL. This was back when it was allowed. Actually, my father and a few of my uncles also served in the Army while still illegal. Almost all of them are citizens now.
So yes, these "criminals" are very much American, in my eyes. I do admit, when I see protesters waving a flag of another country (and here in Los Angeles, it would typically be a Mexican flag), it does make me a bit angry.
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Post by nepean on Oct 12, 2016 18:30:44 GMT
ETA: As a United States citizen I can now vote in elections. But as a visa holder, or green card holder (resident) I could not vote. I think this speaks for itself. American = ability to vote; Non American (resident, visa holder or illegal) =NOT able to vote. Out of curiosity, would you then consider convicted felons who cannot vote Americans, or no? I wasn't saying this is the litmus test. If you had quoted the preceding text I stated that there is a process, of which I am intimately aware of. In my opinion if one is not a citizen of the United States then they cannot call themselves "American". Quote of my original post NO.I should clarify the following statement, by saying that I am a rule follower. So with that said:I was a LEGAL alien in this country for 12 years. First with appropriate visa's and second with a green card (permanent resident). We went through the process the legal way, and it is a long and painstaking process. AND IT SHOULD BE. There are processes that are in place to PROTECT this country and when these processes are abused it is a slap in the face to EVERY citizen and everyone already in the process of becoming a citizen.Last year we became official citizens of the United States of America. I can now call myself an American. Though, I am a dual citizen, so I call myself an Australian and an American.ETA: I removed the voting / citizen part from my original post since it was poorly worded and did not convey my thoughts clearly.
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Post by papersilly on Oct 12, 2016 18:33:23 GMT
I do. I don't think citizens own the term Americans. People who are living here long-term also qualify IMO. I agree. "American" is a feeling and a way of life. most illegals assimilate into the American way of life. they work, spend money, and take part and celebrate in traditional Americana like sports, activities and holidays. they want civil liberties and many believe in freedom and democracy. lack of that is probably why they fled their own countries.
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Post by papersilly on Oct 12, 2016 18:37:26 GMT
to me, being American is so much more than just being able to vote. I know a ton of "Americans" who don't even vote and just as many non Americans who would love to vote if and when they can. why should the ability to vote set the benchmark for being American? that's just one of the privileges bestowed as being a US Citizen but being "American" in the philosophical sense is so much more.
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Post by scrappyoutlaw on Oct 12, 2016 18:37:28 GMT
Out of curiosity, would you then consider convicted felons who cannot vote Americans, or no? I wasn't saying this is the litmus test. If you had quoted the preceding text I stated that there is a process, of which I am intimately aware of. In my opinion if one is not a citizen of the United States then they cannot call themselves "American". Quote of my original post NO.
I should clarify the following statement, by saying that I am a rule follower. So with that said:
I was a LEGAL alien in this country for 12 years. First with appropriate visa's and second with a green card (permanent resident). We went through the process the legal way, and it is a long and painstaking process. AND IT SHOULD BE. There are processes that are in place to PROTECT this country and when these processes are abused it is a slap in the face to EVERY citizen and everyone already in the process of becoming a citizen.
Last year we became official citizens of the United States of America. I can now call myself an American. Though, I am a dual citizen, so I call myself an Australian and an American.Sorry, I was just trying to understand this line you drew. I read your entire post. To me it's not such a black and white answer. Wasn't trying to ruffle your feathers.
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Post by littlemama on Oct 12, 2016 18:39:19 GMT
What if someone immigrated here from South America? Or Central America? If they became a US citizen, they would be an American. Until then, they would be a Brazilian or a Nicaraguan, etc living in the United States.
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Post by compwalla on Oct 12, 2016 18:41:56 GMT
I think there is a difference between being culturally American and being a citizen. Undocumented people who are culturally American? I don't have issue calling them Americans. A person who was brought here as a small child and grew up here? How could such a person be anything but American?
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Post by Sam on Oct 12, 2016 18:42:17 GMT
Of course not - and I don't think of people here illegally as 'undocumented English, or British, or whatever we happen to be today'.
If I lived somewhere on a long term visa, I might well identify with the people I lived with, feel part of a community, love where I was, but I would not talk about myself as a citizen of that country.
If I was there illegally, there is no way I should have the right to call myself 'American' or 'Swedish', or 'German', or 'French', or 'Australian' or whatever.
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Post by nepean on Oct 12, 2016 18:46:57 GMT
I wasn't saying this is the litmus test. If you had quoted the preceding text I stated that there is a process, of which I am intimately aware of. In my opinion if one is not a citizen of the United States then they cannot call themselves "American". Quote of my original post NO.
I should clarify the following statement, by saying that I am a rule follower. So with that said:
I was a LEGAL alien in this country for 12 years. First with appropriate visa's and second with a green card (permanent resident). We went through the process the legal way, and it is a long and painstaking process. AND IT SHOULD BE. There are processes that are in place to PROTECT this country and when these processes are abused it is a slap in the face to EVERY citizen and everyone already in the process of becoming a citizen.
Last year we became official citizens of the United States of America. I can now call myself an American. Though, I am a dual citizen, so I call myself an Australian and an American.Sorry, I was just trying to understand this line you drew. I read your entire post. To me it's not such a black and white answer. Wasn't trying to ruffle your feathers. You're right, using the voting analogy was not wise, as it is not a black and white answer. I apologize. I guess I hadn't connected all the dots.
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Post by myboysnme on Oct 12, 2016 18:47:44 GMT
Does the person being referenced think of themselves as an American? If so, I go with that. There is a difference between being an American and a United States Citizen. The USA is not the entirety of the Americas.
Mostly people who have a problem with this are talking about our southern neighbors, not our northern ones. I have never heard someone give a crap if a Canadian considers themselves American.
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