Deleted
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May 16, 2024 7:37:24 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Nov 23, 2016 14:34:49 GMT
link"But Trump was actually just trading on something psychologists and political scientists have known for years: that people don’t necessarily make decisions based on facts. Instead, we are often guided by our emotions and deeply held biases. Humans are also very adept at ignoring facts so that we can continue to see the world in a way that conforms to our preconceived notions. And simply stating factual information that contradicts those deeply held beliefs is often not enough to combat the spread of misinformation." How does democracy survive when people vote "beliefs", "emotions" and "feelings" over facts and evidence? I don't think that it will, in the long term. People will keep voting w/their gut; ignoring facts and evidence. Demagoguery and nationalism and tribalism and wars will continue and escalate. I
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Post by papercrafteradvocate on Nov 23, 2016 15:22:33 GMT
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Post by SockMonkey on Nov 23, 2016 15:27:25 GMT
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scrapaddie
Drama Llama
Posts: 5,090
Jul 8, 2014 20:17:31 GMT
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Post by scrapaddie on Nov 23, 2016 16:30:40 GMT
Not just true in politics, but life in general. We have grown up in an age of advertisements where anything can be said and it must be true! Every detergent cleans better than the competitor's detergent. And Facebook drives me crazy! People are always posting things that are blatantly untrue and everybody is believing It. like asking for likes and shares for a dog that is 19 years old. The picture search easily reveals that it's a stock photo. Another post asked for likes and shares for a little girl that supposedly has cancer. Search reveals that it's a little girl who shave off her hair in support of cancer... but everybody believes and shares and likes the post.... drives me crazy!
Maybe I am too cynical
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tincin
Drama Llama
Posts: 5,368
Jul 25, 2014 4:55:32 GMT
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Post by tincin on Nov 23, 2016 16:53:25 GMT
Does this mean I should put some pennies and water in a plastic bad, then hang it up to keep flies out of my house?
I don't think it's shocking that people don't care about facts, I think it's been that way for a while now.
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freebird
Drama Llama
'cause I'm free as a bird now
Posts: 6,927
Jun 25, 2014 20:06:48 GMT
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Post by freebird on Nov 23, 2016 16:58:56 GMT
I agree with this, and a reminder, this works both directions.
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Post by scrapsotime on Nov 23, 2016 16:59:26 GMT
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Deleted
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May 16, 2024 7:37:24 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Nov 23, 2016 17:22:03 GMT
I agree with this, and a reminder, this works both directions. There is no "both directions" when it comes to facts. Facts are facts. They have 1, 2, or 50 directions depending on the facts involved. Your framing of "both" shows a dogged determination to keep the context there being two (and only two) sides to every issue.
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freebird
Drama Llama
'cause I'm free as a bird now
Posts: 6,927
Jun 25, 2014 20:06:48 GMT
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Post by freebird on Nov 23, 2016 17:26:46 GMT
I agree with this, and a reminder, this works both directions. There is no "both directions" when it comes to facts. Facts are facts. They have 1, 2, or 50 directions depending on the facts involved. Your framing of "both" shows a dogged determination to keep the context there being two (and only two) sides to every issue. Both, as in both political sides ignore facts.
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Post by papersilly on Nov 23, 2016 18:04:54 GMT
a perfect example of this is the OJ Simpson trial. when experts examined why the jury didn't convict him, many said that people didn't care about the minutia of DNA evidence and other forensic facts. they were bored when the DNA experts were testifying but were gripped when sensationalism, celebrity and racism was peppered into the case.
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Deleted
Posts: 0
May 16, 2024 7:37:24 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Nov 23, 2016 18:07:19 GMT
Both, as in both political sides ignore facts. I don't have evidence to back up your opinion, nor do I have evidence to back up that "both sides" ignore facts to the same degree. "Yes, you can find examples where *some* liberals got off on a hobbyhorse of one kind or another, or where the liberal conventional wisdom turned out wrong. But you don’t see the kind of lockstep rejection of evidence that we see over and over again on the right. Where is the liberal equivalent of the near-uniform conservative rejection of climate science...?" - Paul Krugman More here on scientific studies of left/right thinking., if anyone is interested. But this post was more about how it doesn't even matter what's in those studies, cuz people want to go on "feelings" not evidence.
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Post by papercrafteradvocate on Nov 24, 2016 0:01:07 GMT
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~Lauren~
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 3,876
Jun 26, 2014 3:33:18 GMT
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Post by ~Lauren~ on Nov 24, 2016 0:03:06 GMT
It comes as no surprise to me that people ignore facts.
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Post by iamkristinl16 on Nov 24, 2016 1:30:12 GMT
I recently listened to an episode of "this American life" about this very topic. It was interesting. I believe it was called "Seriously?"
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Post by stefdesign on Nov 24, 2016 1:33:32 GMT
There's really no way to rely entirely on "facts" to live one's life, or form one's opinions. There are too many variables, everything from gut instinct, faith, unexplained occurrences, coincidences, emotions. Even seeming "facts" are often colored by perspective, history, understanding. One of the things that makes us individuals is our unique understanding of life's events and our own personal reactions to those events and relationships. There are few "facts" about love and sexuality, for example. The fact is, that men and women procreate and produce children. But what is the "fact" about a person who feels that they are a woman in a man's body? Is that a fact or a feeling? Science might not back up that feeling, but it's as real as science to the individual. Falling in love? Is that a "fact"? No, it's a feeling, Bonding with a newborn baby? Fact? I'm not sure, but I don't think there's anything "factual" about it, but for those of us who have experienced it, it's as real as giving birth. We would be sad humans indeed if we made all of our decisions in life based on "facts".
I understand the OP's point, but we have survived for many millenia by basing our decisions in part on our feelings, impressions, and instincts. I'm not saying it should be a primary source of information, but certainly it's bound to color our opinions. We can't ever know all of the "facts", sometimes we have to combine a few facts with a little common sense, or even gut instinct. I'm not bothered at all by people, whichever the political spectrum they fall, using emotions or feelings to help make their choices. It's just human nature. I think that's a fact.
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Deleted
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May 16, 2024 7:37:24 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Nov 24, 2016 2:47:54 GMT
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surf75
Junior Member
Posts: 50
Jun 26, 2014 1:30:17 GMT
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Post by surf75 on Nov 24, 2016 2:59:11 GMT
How does democracy survive when people vote "beliefs", "emotions" and "feelings" over facts and evidence? Isn't that how we got ourselves 8 years of Obama? You know, all that "Hope and Change" that everyone got so emotional over?
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Deleted
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May 16, 2024 7:37:24 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Nov 24, 2016 4:59:57 GMT
How does democracy survive when people vote "beliefs", "emotions" and "feelings" over facts and evidence? Isn't that how we got ourselves 8 years of Obama? You know, all that "Hope and Change" that everyone got so emotional over? That was based on his policies - some of which were enacted. Policies which have seen GDP go up (not that that's a great measure, except to idiots who look for shortcut measures), unemployment go down, uninsured go down, wages go up (not much, but some) vs. the Bush era of rising unemployment, shrinking GDP, high gas prices, 2 wars and a medicare Part D colossal expense put on the nation's debt sheet. So, all in all, that was voting based on policies and the hope and change were side benefits.
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Post by lucyg on Nov 24, 2016 19:45:49 GMT
How does democracy survive when people vote "beliefs", "emotions" and "feelings" over facts and evidence? Isn't that how we got ourselves 8 years of Obama? You know, all that "Hope and Change" that everyone got so emotional over? What the heck are you going to do when you don't have Obama to bitch about anymore?
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Post by Sam on Nov 24, 2016 19:47:57 GMT
How does democracy survive when people vote "beliefs", "emotions" and "feelings" over facts and evidence? Isn't that how we got ourselves 8 years of Obama? You know, all that "Hope and Change" that everyone got so emotional over? So, basically, you are saying SSDD??
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Deleted
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May 16, 2024 7:37:24 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Nov 24, 2016 19:58:35 GMT
Isn't that how we got ourselves 8 years of Obama? You know, all that "Hope and Change" that everyone got so emotional over? That was based on his policies - some of which were enacted. Policies which have seen GDP go up (not that that's a great measure, except to idiots who look for shortcut measures), unemployment go down, uninsured go down, wages go up (not much, but some) vs. the Bush era of rising unemployment, shrinking GDP, high gas prices, 2 wars and a medicare Part D colossal expense put on the nation's debt sheet. So, all in all, that was voting based on policies and the hope and change were side benefits. Plus, he has/had lots of class, and acts/acted very Presidential.
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Deleted
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May 16, 2024 7:37:24 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Nov 24, 2016 22:22:18 GMT
I think there are a lot of people that are mentally lazy and have very little curiosity. They tend to latch on to a piece of information without having the slightest care where it came from and what is it based on. That guy that was elected president is epitome of someone who is mentally lazy with no curiosity about things. <---- opinion.
I think one can have an opinion that is formed without any facts. An opinion is what we personally like or don't like. Or how we see things.
Beliefs, to me, are different then opinions. Beliefs are based on something specific like religion. But as with opinions beliefs can be formed without facts.
The problem is that when some take their opinions and beliefs and try to make them facts with no facts to back up what they are saying. And it's when one is called on their lack of facts that things can get down right testy.
I think it's hard for some to separate opinions from beliefs from facts. There are some who never want to be wrong and as such they become defensive when challenged for their opinion or belief especially if they feel it was made with facts.
And because of this I believe this is one of the reasons for the discord that is going on right now in the country.
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Post by redhead32 on Nov 25, 2016 1:04:02 GMT
I recently listened to an episode of "this American life" about this very topic. It was interesting. I believe it was called "Seriously?" The part where Ira talked to his uncle blew my mind.
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Post by papercrafteradvocate on Nov 25, 2016 1:45:52 GMT
Isn't that how we got ourselves 8 years of Obama? You know, all that "Hope and Change" that everyone got so emotional over? What the heck are you going to do when you don't have Obama to bitch about anymore? And find out that it wasn't as bad as they bitched about!
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Deleted
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May 16, 2024 7:37:24 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Dec 2, 2016 2:35:19 GMT
Trump spokesperson confirms it:"HUGHES There's no such thing, unfortunately, anymore of facts. And so Mr. Trump's tweet amongst a certain crowd, a large -- a large part of the population, are truth. When he says that millions of people illegally voted, he has some -- in his -- amongst him and his supporters, and people believe they have facts to back that up. Those that do not like Mr. Trump, they say that those are lies, and there's no facts to back it up. So..."
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~Lauren~
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 3,876
Jun 26, 2014 3:33:18 GMT
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Post by ~Lauren~ on Dec 2, 2016 3:30:26 GMT
Isn't that how we got ourselves 8 years of Obama? You know, all that "Hope and Change" that everyone got so emotional over? What the heck are you going to do when you don't have Obama to bitch about anymore? Well, I guess we have at least 4 years, six if Trump is reelected. That's about how long Obama and the Dems blamed Bush for everything after he left office
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Deleted
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May 16, 2024 7:37:24 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Dec 2, 2016 5:20:43 GMT
What the heck are you going to do when you don't have Obama to bitch about anymore? Well, I guess we have at least 4 years, six if Trump is reelected. That's about how long Obama and the Dems blamed Bush for everything after he left office That's because the Bush years fu#(ed up the economy good and proper. Remember the two wars costing trillions while expanding medicaid drug coverage while cutting taxes/revenues while ignoring a real estate bubble? Yeah, that.
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Deleted
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May 16, 2024 7:37:24 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Dec 2, 2016 5:27:43 GMT
What the heck are you going to do when you don't have Obama to bitch about anymore? Well, I guess we have at least 4 years, six if Trump is reelected. That's about how long Obama and the Dems blamed Bush for everything after he left office "President George W. Bush gives his farewell speech, Jan. 15, 2009. President Bush will leave office as one of the most unpopular departing presidents in history, according to a new CBS News/New York Times poll showing Mr. Bush's final approval rating at 22 percent.Jan 16, 2009" I don't know but it seems to me there were plenty of reasons to blame Bush. 22% approval rating and the title of "most unpopular departing president in history". He must have done something to earn those titles.
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Deleted
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May 16, 2024 7:37:24 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Dec 2, 2016 13:44:38 GMT
And more evidence that we are living in a post-factual country.
This is NOT a good thing.
This is how very bad things start. Things like holocaust camps and witch trials and burnings at the stake. All based on "beliefs".
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~Lauren~
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 3,876
Jun 26, 2014 3:33:18 GMT
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Post by ~Lauren~ on Dec 2, 2016 18:43:27 GMT
Well, I guess we have at least 4 years, six if Trump is reelected. That's about how long Obama and the Dems blamed Bush for everything after he left office That's because the Bush years fu#(ed up the economy good and proper. Remember the two wars costing trillions while expanding medicaid drug coverage while cutting taxes/revenues while ignoring a real estate bubble? Yeah, that. Yeah, yeah....lol.
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