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Post by craftygamer on Aug 21, 2014 20:55:45 GMT
I really need to know if I'm overreacting, or if the company is in the wrong. Here's the story. . .
I bought two packs of the new BH PL panoramic sheet protectors. The way they work is that there is a portion of the sheet protector that extends from the regular 12x12 part. Anyway, both of the packages I bought are folded in the wrong part. Because of this, not only do the protectors not lay flat, but the pockets closest to the edge all have a crease in them. I have tried creasing them in the proper place, then laying something flat on them, but it didn't seem to help at all.
Since that didn't work, I have every intention of returning them to Michael's. I have also bought some PL sheet protectors from Amazon awhile back, and noticed they were a bit yellow, so this purchase was me hoping their quality had improved. Making a run up to Michael's is a bit of an inconvenience, and disappointing because I won't be buying them again, but not a big deal overall.
However, I did want to let the company know, in case they actually wanted to let the manufacturer know and fix the problem; so I emailed PL directly. I wasn't expecting anything for free, but was hoping they would at least want to correct the problem. The person I corresponded with basically blamed AC and said that, while it is a known problem, it's not a common occurrence so there is no plan to do anything about it. In addition, I could send my defective protectors to them, wait until the end of September (this is when they anticipate receiving more in stock), and have new ones sent to me. But, I would have to pay shipping both ways, and they can't even guarantee that those ones would be folded in the correct place. Like I said, I wasn't looking for any freebies, but I thought they would at least cover shipping charges, since it was their error. What say the peas? Would you be disappointed, too?
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Post by chances on Aug 21, 2014 21:02:48 GMT
I don't think you're over reacting. It's ridiculous that the product is basically unusable. It's so frustrating that companies just don't seem to care anymore. That is the benefit of buying from a big box store though. It's a wonder Michalels doesn't put more pressure on AC for all of the returns they must get. However, I think some people just take the loss. I remember several people writing about page protectors from PL that were mislabeled but not taking them back the store because it was too mulch of a hassle.
Sorry they were so unhelpful!
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Post by crazy4scraps on Aug 21, 2014 21:04:09 GMT
Yup, I would be disappointed. That's pretty poor customer service to not stand behind your products. Heck, if you get a bad bag of M&M's and let them know, they send you a pile of coupons for free product because they care about their image. They know we have a lot of other choices so they want to keep their customers happy. That's why it's such a big deal for any one company to corner the market on anything. They know you don't have too many other choices so when you have a problem they just don't care.
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Post by anniefb on Aug 21, 2014 21:27:33 GMT
I agree. That's just terrible customer service. If it's a defective product they should replace it at their cost, no questions asked.
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amom23
Drama Llama
Posts: 5,328 
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Post by amom23 on Aug 21, 2014 21:40:42 GMT
I agree. That's just terrible customer service. If it's a defective product they should replace it at their cost, no questions asked. If the product was bought from Michael's then it should be returned there. I'm not sure why you would expect BH/PL company to do a return for you when you bought the defected product from another store? |
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Post by hjs on Aug 21, 2014 21:52:11 GMT
I would just return them to Michaels. I would guess Michaels has a way of tracking returned items, and it there are too many returns, I imagine they will stop ordering these from AC.
If the product is consistantly defective, then they are going to realize that by the amount of returns. AC should get the message from the amount they get returned from Michaels as well as the lack of future orders.
If you had purchased these items on line from AC, then I would expect they would refund your money or replace your item. It seems quite variable as to whether on line stores will pay for the shipping for returns. That is something I always consider when i buy something on line.
I certainly would not expect AC to reimburse me or replace an item I bought at Michaels. They will be crediting Michaels for items returned to the store, and then , presumably, returned to AC.
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lisavb
Full Member
Posts: 147
Jun 25, 2014 21:49:19 GMT
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Post by lisavb on Aug 21, 2014 21:56:07 GMT
I agree. That's just terrible customer service. If it's a defective product they should replace it at their cost, no questions asked. If the product was bought from Michael's then it should be returned there. I'm not sure why you would expect BH/PL company to do a return for you when you bought the defected product from another store? Because a LOT of the vendors want to deal directly with the customer when it comes to product warranties. Over the past 11 years I've been open, I have had customer purchase different items from AC, WeR, Fiskars, Scrapbook Adhesives, and I have exchanged them for a new replacement. But, when I call the company and ask for a replacement, they tell me they would rather the customer call them directly to get the problem fixed. Personally, as a store owner, I'd rather take care of *my* customer when I can, but I'm a small local store that wants to help my customers out as much as I can. I talk to my reps frequently enough, that it's not a huge deal to hold on to a few tape runners to get replaced, but I'm pretty sure I'm not the norm. Michael's is a big enough company that they will just defect it out and AC/PL will probably never hear about it again. THAT is why you should call the manufacturer, so they know there is a problem with the product. Product Warranties are almost NEVER handled at the store level. If you have a warranty on a TV or dishwasher or something...the retail store will give you the manufacturer's number and tell you to call them. It's not the store's fault nor problem if it is a manufacturer defect. On the other hand, I have a customer who had a problem with their Cricut Expression machine, and 13 months after owning it, it stopped working. She first called me and asked if I could help. I gave her the number and she called Cricut for help, and they told her to bring it back to me to get replaced? Ummm, sorry Cricut, that is YOUR problem, not mine. PLUS, it was a month past it's product warranty. Needless to say, I won't be selling any more Cricut machines for as long as I own my store. |
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amom23
Drama Llama
Posts: 5,328
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Post by amom23 on Aug 21, 2014 21:59:38 GMT
lisavb - ya feel better now?  |
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lisavb
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Jun 25, 2014 21:49:19 GMT
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Post by lisavb on Aug 21, 2014 22:12:15 GMT
Sorry, I really didn't mean to sound snarky. I re-read it three times before posting it, to try to take all the "meanness" out. I'm sorry if you felt I was being snarky, or rude, or anything like that. It really, really wasn't posted out of some sort of spite or anything. Gosh, now will re-read it again to make sure my point got across without sounding mean! LOL Like I said, as a store owner, I would take it back if I could. And with my AC rep, I wouldn't have any problems taking it back, because I KNOW I would get credit for it in the long run. I don't know if the OP is "expecting too much" because I'm not exactly sure who she is upset with. My guess is the PL/BH rep who basically said they knew about the problem but wouldn't ship out a free replacement?? I agree that if they know about the problem, it's not too much to ask for a replacement shipped to her. However, my guess is the PL/BH rep that emailed her is probably not a company customer service (and I mean a BRAND customer service, versus just a BH webstore customer service rep) and that rep feels like she should go back to where she purchased it from originally. It's just interesting sometimes to hear what people expect from store owners on occasions. |
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Post by myshelly on Aug 21, 2014 22:46:46 GMT
Yes, OP, I think that was stinky CS.
However, I have to say if that had happened to me I would have just returned them to the store and gotten my money back.
I don't want to and shouldn't have to deal with the mnftr. I'm the consumer, I just want my money back.
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PaperAngel
Drama Llama
Posts: 7,290
Jun 27, 2014 23:04:06 GMT
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Post by PaperAngel on Aug 21, 2014 22:47:29 GMT
Given that you intend to return the product to the store where purchased & contacted the company's customer service department out of courtesy to alert them of the production defect, I can understand your disappointment with the response received from AC. IMHO your expectations are normal: No consumer wants to think they are spending money on supplies that are defective, & the manufacturer doesn't care! I would be reluctant to purchase from AC in the future...
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lisavb
Full Member
Posts: 147
Jun 25, 2014 21:49:19 GMT
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Post by lisavb on Aug 21, 2014 22:50:05 GMT
But see...AC never said they didn't care. Nor did AC say they wouldn't take care of their customer. She emailed Becky Higgin's site.
I would almost guarantee you that AC would send her out a new product to replace the defective one.
Tell you what OP...email me at lisa @ awalkdownmemorylane.net and I'll see what I can do for you.
I'd need the product item number off your packaging. I'll talk to my rep and see if we can't get you taken care of...my only stipulation? next time try my site! LOL Just kidding, I just feel bad that you are given the runaround by BH's site.
Everyone here always is so quick to put down AC, but I have never had any problems with products that weren't replaced immediately.
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Post by crazy4scraps on Aug 21, 2014 23:00:19 GMT
I don't think it should be up to the customer to have to return the product to the store where it was purchased in the case of an item that has a MANUFACTURING defect. It should be an option in case the easiest thing is to just exchange it at the store for a good one, but the customer has already been inconvenienced by spending her time, gas and money to purchase something she wanted and can't use. What if the customer bought that product while on vacation 500 miles from home? I realize that's probably not the case here, but I'm just saying.
The company that manufactured the defective item should just make it right. That's what I do on the rare occasions when there is an issue with any of my kits. I just fix the problem, send some fun little extras along with the replacement (at MY expense) and apologize profusely for the customer's inconvenience. In this case since it's a known issue, they should have just had her email a photo of the defective product, told her to keep it or throw it away and sent out a non-defective replacement at their expense as soon as a replacement is available.
OP, did you complain to AC directly? The cost to replace the occasional product for a big company like that is tiny compared to the cost of replacing that customer and all of her future purchases because they're not happy with your company. Not only do they risk losing that customer possibly for life, but their reputation will go downhill too when that customer tells everyone they know about their dissatisfaction with the product and the way the company handled the problem.
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Deleted
Posts: 0
Apr 23, 2024 17:41:09 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Aug 22, 2014 1:22:12 GMT
No, I don't think you're expecting too much.
I DO NOT expect perfection in manufacturing, but in a hobby where most products aren't visible through the packaging before you purchase and open, and when most(? a lot?) of us have to shop online so there is ZERO chance of seeing anything in person at all, companies need to step up and take the responsibility for their defective product.
I sympathize that it's not their fault, and that shipping and replacing new product is expensive, but I think that's part of doing business. I think that companies expect and accept a certain percentage of defective product from the factory (they know it can't all be 100% perfect 100% of the time) but I think it's wrong to pass that accepted defectiveness onto the customer.
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Post by craftygamer on Aug 22, 2014 1:35:41 GMT
When I first emailed BH's site, I didn't realize that AC made these protectors. I know that in reality she could probably care less, but I thought BH would want to know that her company is producing a sub-par product. But given the response, I think that contacting AC directly would be futile at this point. Seeing as how this is not the first time I've had problems with her page protectors, and that there are so many other options, I see no reason to continue supporting the PL brand.
Thank you to all of those who understand and agree with me on this. After dealing with ACOT, Scrapbook Generation, Citrus Twist, etc., it has reinforced my decision to continually buy from smaller shops. I know these aren't the people doing the actual manufacturing, but if they can provide excellent customer service, why can't the larger companies. Besides, there are large companies (like Fiskars, for example) that stand behind their products 100% and provide a high quality customer service experience, too. So, with a company like PL, who is such a dominating company in this industry, it's disappointing that they are so quick to shrug their shoulders and pass the blame onto someone else.
Lisavb, thanks for the offer, but I really don't feel right making this someone else's problem. I'll be taking them back to Michael's bad getting a refund. However, I prefer to take my business to the smaller stores, so why don't you give me the link, and I'd be more than happy to buy from you in the future. I really do appreciate the offer.
FWIW, after reading through all your responses again, perhaps I will try to go through AC. It seems so much easier to take them back to Michael's, even though the brush-off from PL has left me a bit defeated. Maybe they will care that their product is defective. Lol
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Deleted
Posts: 0
Apr 23, 2024 17:41:09 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Aug 22, 2014 1:39:26 GMT
I've always had fantastic customer service from AC! Definitely helps keep me loyal!
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lisavb
Full Member
Posts: 147
Jun 25, 2014 21:49:19 GMT
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Post by lisavb on Aug 22, 2014 3:49:44 GMT
Lisavb, thanks for the offer, but I really don't feel right making this someone else's problem. I'll be taking them back to Michael's bad getting a refund. However, I prefer to take my business to the smaller stores, so why don't you give me the link, and I'd be more than happy to buy from you in the future. I really do appreciate the offer. FWIW, after reading through all your responses again, perhaps I will try to go through AC. It seems so much easier to take them back to Michael's, even though the brush-off from PL has left me a bit defeated. Maybe they will care that their product is defective. Lol You're very welcome, and again, if you don't get your money back from Michaels, the offer stands. I'll do what I can to get you taken care of. My store website is in my signature. And, I'm pretty sure AC will care that their product is defective. I talk to my rep a few times a month, and they understand that there is a portion of Peas consumers that feel they have bad quality. They are trying to fix it, and will replace defective product. As a consumer, what more can we ask of them? It'd be one thing if they made a bad product, and just said "tough luck" but they are not. They are replacing items that aren't up to par. |
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Post by sabriolet on Aug 22, 2014 10:54:37 GMT
My page protectors have the same problem. I have been able to salvage them by folding them on the correct crease and laying two heavy books on them. I am annoyed and I should not have to do this with a brand new product in order for it to be usable. But I really want these page protectors and do not feel like waiting for replacements. I already have a page planned.
I plan to let BH and American Crafts know about it however.
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GiantsFan
Prolific Pea
Posts: 8,284
Site Supporter
Jun 27, 2014 14:44:56 GMT
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Post by GiantsFan on Aug 23, 2014 2:02:01 GMT
Lisavb, thanks for the offer, but I really don't feel right making this someone else's problem. I'll be taking them back to Michael's bad getting a refund. However, I prefer to take my business to the smaller stores, so why don't you give me the link, and I'd be more than happy to buy from you in the future. I really do appreciate the offer. FWIW, after reading through all your responses again, perhaps I will try to go through AC. It seems so much easier to take them back to Michael's, even though the brush-off from PL has left me a bit defeated. Maybe they will care that their product is defective. Lol You're very welcome, and again, if you don't get your money back from Michaels, the offer stands. I'll do what I can to get you taken care of. My store website is in my signature. And, I'm pretty sure AC will care that their product is defective. I talk to my rep a few times a month, and they understand that there is a portion of Peas consumers that feel they have bad quality. They are trying to fix it, and will replace defective product. As a consumer, what more can we ask of them? It'd be one thing if they made a bad product, and just said "tough luck" but they are not. They are replacing items that aren't up to par. Lisavb, This is really nice of you. Just for trying to help the OP I'm going to check out / bookmark your store.  |
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Post by doesitmatter on Aug 23, 2014 3:25:07 GMT
I'd be disappointed too  |
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Post by lynne on Aug 23, 2014 12:34:17 GMT
Just checked, and mine are all folded the wrong way, too. I'm hoping I can fix them with a bone folder, but really, what a pain! Seems like a pretty key feature that they should have gotten right instead of making it my problem...
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Post by LisaDV on Aug 23, 2014 14:45:20 GMT
Yep, that's stinky service. You could call AC directly to see if you get better and if they're going to do anything about their quality issues.
Lisavb, sweet offer. Also I'm hoping to make it to your brick and mortar store in the next few months. So excited.
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doglover
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Posts: 233
Jun 27, 2014 14:50:33 GMT
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Post by doglover on Aug 23, 2014 17:19:28 GMT
I think it is this type of CS that ultimately drives a company out of business. And then they wonder what happened.
Once I have a bad CS experience with a company, I don't buy from them again.
Some companies don't seem to realize that Consumers have long memories.
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Post by craftygamer on Aug 30, 2014 6:53:58 GMT
A few people here suggested I take my problem up with AC directly, so I did email them about it. They said that it is a known problem and that, if I send them back, they will send me new ones. HOWEVER, I have to pay to ship them there (but she said that they will send me some "special goodies" to compensate me for this), and that they don't expect to receive new ones until sometime in October.
I'm not sure how I feel about this, though. First of all, it's such a pain in the ass to find a box big enough to ship it. And second of all, I know it will cost me a pretty penny to ship them because I do have to get such a big box. Plus, if I end up not liking the products they choose to compensate me with, that's just more money I've wasted.
I will say that they did respond to me right away, and they are trying to make it right. But, at this point, I think it just makes more sense to return them to Michael's and be done with it all. I really wish they would've just been right when I bought them. *sigh*. What would you do?
Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
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Post by Dani B. on Aug 30, 2014 12:56:14 GMT
A few people here suggested I take my problem up with AC directly, so I did email them about it. They said that it is a known problem and that, if I send them back, they will send me new ones. HOWEVER, I have to pay to ship them there (but she said that they will send me some "special goodies" to compensate me for this), and that they don't expect to receive new ones until sometime in October. I'm not sure how I feel about this, though. First of all, it's such a pain in the ass to find a box big enough to ship it. And second of all, I know it will cost me a pretty penny to ship them because I do have to get such a big box. Plus, if I end up not liking the products they choose to compensate me with, that's just more money I've wasted. I will say that they did respond to me right away, and they are trying to make it right. But, at this point, I think it just makes more sense to return them to Michael's and be done with it all. I really wish they would've just been right when I bought them. *sigh*. What would you do? Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk I am sorry with all you had been trough. A product should be ready to be used when it's put to be sold and the customer should not be having to deal with "fixing" it. I also agree you had done everything possible and I understand your frustration. If like you decided to back and return it to the store, I would make an exchange for the same product. While in the store, after completing the exchange open the product to verify it. I will do it as many times as necessary. This way I expect to get a functional product, and by opening and returning as many defective products should alert the store about the problem with this specific manufacturer. And like you, after all I have read I too will support small retailers. I don't know if I was much help to you. But I tried my best. Enviado do meu iPhone usando Tapatalk |
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Post by craftygamer on Aug 31, 2014 0:44:19 GMT
Slowpokeypea, thanks for chiming in, you did help me make my decision. I took them back to Michael's today, and just got my money back. It's disappointing because I was looking forward to using them on my upcoming trip to CA, but I shouldn't have to pay more money to fix their mistake. On the bright side, I did pick up the Crate Paper Boys Rule pad for only $7. Woo hoo. :-)
Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
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Post by artisticscrapper on Aug 31, 2014 18:22:16 GMT
AC wanted you to pay shipping to send them back their defective product? Then they wanted to offset your cost by sending you a few mystery products that you may not even want? Wow. The whole "yeah, we know it's defective, too bad for you" attitude is just so sad, especially since we've seen so many AC quality control issues posted on the boards. I think you did the right thing by just taking it back to M's and getting a refund. I hope you can work around it in your layout.
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