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Post by snowsilver on Sept 17, 2017 21:50:55 GMT
Izzyscraps, I promise you that many of us DO care what has happened to you. I have been simply astonished at the lack of response from many Peas to the multiple threads we have had here from many, MANY of our Peas detailing how their financial lives have virtually been ruined by Obama Care. Your story is just one of literally hundreds of stories I have read. When did we decide that this country has the right to do to its citizens what has been done to you and thousands of others??!! Somewhere along the line we seem to have decided that a preexisting condition trumps everything else including the financial solvency of thousands and thousands of our middle class citizens. Personally, I am stunned that we also think that a 26-year-old ADULT has the right to demand that American citizens pay his/her insurance so they can remain on mom and dad's policy. This is just nonsense to me. A person that old should be taking care his own needs. Obamacare is a disaster and I am constantly stunned at the refusal of its proponents to admit that. It has destroyed so many families that before it went into effect were managing. All of this is why I support catastrophic insurance only. You're not listening to me. I want izzyscraps to be able to afford it too. And I want the very wealthiest to pay MUCH MORE and the next wealthiest to pay some more and so on, so that those in the middle can pay less and still afford health care. Catastrophic only is not going to help people w/pre-existings either be able to get or keep insurance w/o being kicked off or priced off due to millions in medical bills/year. Zing, you and I have such a fundamental difference in mindset on making the rich "pay" that we would never be able to find a compromise that would work for both of us. That is something we would probably have to agree to disagree on. What we probably CAN agree on is ways to bring the cost of insurance down. I am all for addressing those. Of course we should not be paying the astronomic costs for drugs that we do. Of course medical malpractice should not cost what it does. Of course we should address what people can and cannot sue over and how much lawyers can charge. All these things would help resolve some of the issues that you and I are concerned about. But I will never be for tearing the fabric of what this country was founded on apart: i.e. forcing the "rich" to pay for everyone else just because they had an idea, worked their tails off and made some money. I say "good for them" because they provided jobs or me and mine all of our lives. And maybe even you and yours.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 17, 2017 21:53:24 GMT
You're not listening to me. I want izzyscraps to be able to afford it too. And I want the very wealthiest to pay MUCH MORE and the next wealthiest to pay some more and so on, so that those in the middle can pay less and still afford health care. Catastrophic only is not going to help people w/pre-existings either be able to get or keep insurance w/o being kicked off or priced off due to millions in medical bills/year. Zing, you and I have such a fundamental difference in mindset on making the rich "pay" that we would never be able to find a compromise that would work for both of us. That is something we would probably have to agree to disagree on. What we probably CAN agree on is ways to bring the cost of insurance down. I am all for addressing those. Of course we should not be paying the astronomic costs for drugs that we do. Of course medical malpractice should not cost what it does. Of course we should address what people can and cannot sue over and how much lawyers can charge. All these things would help resolve some of the issues that you and I are concerned about. But I will never be for tearing the fabric of what this country was founded on apart: i.e. forcing the "rich" to pay for everyone else just because they had an idea, worked their tails off and made some money. I say "good for them" because they provided jobs or me and mine all of our lives. And maybe even you and yours. Not all the rich had an idea or worked their tails off. Paris Hilton comes to mind. Lots of people work hard. Including those breaking their backs for $60,000/year, only to be able to keep $42,000 of that and then get hit w/a child w/leukemia. You'll forgive me if I feel more sorry for them than some millionaire who might lose an extra $100,000 or so and still come home w/a few million or more per year.
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Post by snowsilver on Sept 17, 2017 21:59:36 GMT
Zing, you and I have such a fundamental difference in mindset on making the rich "pay" that we would never be able to find a compromise that would work for both of us. That is something we would probably have to agree to disagree on. What we probably CAN agree on is ways to bring the cost of insurance down. I am all for addressing those. Of course we should not be paying the astronomic costs for drugs that we do. Of course medical malpractice should not cost what it does. Of course we should address what people can and cannot sue over and how much lawyers can charge. All these things would help resolve some of the issues that you and I are concerned about. But I will never be for tearing the fabric of what this country was founded on apart: i.e. forcing the "rich" to pay for everyone else just because they had an idea, worked their tails off and made some money. I say "good for them" because they provided jobs or me and mine all of our lives. And maybe even you and yours. Not all the rich had an idea or worked their tails off. Paris Hilton comes to mind. I say good for them too. And they can pay more and still end up bringing in MILLIONS per YEAR while helping those least fortunate. Oh sure, I totally concede that not all got their money by working their tails off. But that is beside the point in my opinion. I just don't think that you or I have the right to tell the rich that they HAVE to pay for the rest of us. Do they have a moral responsibility to help out? Yeah, I think so. But just can't support making it a legal responsibility. I will never be in line with that. And besides--where do we draw the line on who is "rich"? I've seen major fights on that question right here on this forum.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 17, 2017 22:01:22 GMT
Oh sure, I totally concede that not all got their money by working their tails off. But that is beside the point in my opinion. I just don't think that you or I have the right to tell the rich that they HAVE to pay for the rest of us. Do they have a moral responsibility to help out? Yeah, I think so. But just can't support making it a legal responsibility. I will never be in line with that. And besides--where do we draw the line on who is "rich"? I've seen major fights on that question right here on this forum. We all decide the rules (who is rich, what are the marginal rates, etc.) through voting. That's how our country is set up. I believe that one day we will change the rules/laws to make this country better and more fair not just for the hard working rich but also for the hard working middle and poor.
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Post by jenis40 on Sept 17, 2017 22:08:11 GMT
Izzyscraps, I promise you that many of us DO care what has happened to you. I have been simply astonished at the lack of response from many Peas to the multiple threads we have had here from many, MANY of our Peas detailing how their financial lives have virtually been ruined by Obama Care. Your story is just one of literally hundreds of stories I have read. When did we decide that this country has the right to do to its citizens what has been done to you and thousands of others??!! Somewhere along the line we seem to have decided that a preexisting condition trumps everything else including the financial solvency of thousands and thousands of our middle class citizens. Personally, I am stunned that we also think that a 26-year-old ADULT has the right to demand that American citizens pay his/her insurance so they can remain on mom and dad's policy. This is just nonsense to me. A person that old should be taking care his own needs. Obamacare is a disaster and I am constantly stunned at the refusal of its proponents to admit that. It has destroyed so many families that before it went into effect were managing. All of this is why I support catastrophic insurance only. That's pretty fucking cold when there is more than one person on this board that wouldn't have insurance due to pre-existing conditions or who would have lost their insurance due to caps and would be dead right now like ME. ER's don't offer emergency chemo. Kind heart my ass. I feel for those who've been hit by high premiums but until American healthcare becomes more socialized it's not going to get better.
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quiltedbrain
Full Member
Posts: 429
Jun 26, 2014 3:34:53 GMT
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Post by quiltedbrain on Sept 17, 2017 22:31:28 GMT
Obamacare is a disaster and I am constantly stunned at the refusal of its proponents to admit that. It has destroyed so many families that before it went into effect were managing. All of this is why I support catastrophic insurance only. I'm supporter of the ACA because I've seen SO MANY people helped by it. I'm stunned that so many Peas want us to turn our backs on them by doing away with it. All of this is why I support single payer Medicare for all, which solves the problem of covering everyone along with addressing out of control costs and undue burdens on providers.
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Post by papercrafteradvocate on Sept 17, 2017 22:36:06 GMT
I'm trying to find "the hundreds" on this group who's "lives were completely ruined" by the ACA. What's really rich is that every single "conservative" plan RAISES premiums for virtually everyone and the Trump train holding back or refusing to pay is what is hurting the ACA right now. Do I think the ACA is perfect? NO. Do I think that insurance companies are taking advantage? YES. Do I think "the rich" should pay for my insurance? Not really. Do I think that FIRST AND FOREMOST the COSTS of medical, dr visits, treatments, and Rx should be addressed, reduced--Definitely YES. Costs are OUT OF CONTROL. My insurance is self funded. I pay for me and mine. I'm okay with a portion of my taxes going towards medical care of others--because ITS THE HUMANITARIAN THING TO DO. And I'm sick to fucking death of hearing the conservatives say that these devastatingly sick people, who through no fault of their own have been either born with or contracted life ending illness, need to "get a job that pays their health care" "pay their own way" "if only they would take care of themselves" "26 yr olds should be paying their own way and not be on parents policies" etc. The economy has changed drastically--kids are not leaving their parents homes right out of high school or college because they cannot afford it and/or they have to work 2-3 jobs (companies only wanting to hire part time) just to make a non-living wage. How do we expect kids in college to pay for these insurance policies? They're going to school. What about those who are <26 who are mentally, physically challenged who will ALWAYS be in their parents care? Do we bankrupt the parents because at what age--18?--they get kicked off their parents insurance??? Then what? There is no easy solution and anyone trying to "cure it all" in one package is going to meet obstruction and failure. For me, it's more about the insensitivity, who gives a fuck about others attitude (all the really shitty statements from the GOP'ers and conservatives) and that it IS all about the benefit to those more financially able--just go back to the statements made by Trump surrogates and GOP, they've acknowledged that more than once.
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Post by #notLauren on Sept 17, 2017 22:39:03 GMT
The opinions I see on here towards anyone who doesn't fall into an "acceptable" group is why I am unlikely to ever vote for a Democrat again in my lifetime.
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Post by snowsilver on Sept 17, 2017 22:39:58 GMT
Izzyscraps, I promise you that many of us DO care what has happened to you. I have been simply astonished at the lack of response from many Peas to the multiple threads we have had here from many, MANY of our Peas detailing how their financial lives have virtually been ruined by Obama Care. Your story is just one of literally hundreds of stories I have read. When did we decide that this country has the right to do to its citizens what has been done to you and thousands of others??!! Somewhere along the line we seem to have decided that a preexisting condition trumps everything else including the financial solvency of thousands and thousands of our middle class citizens. Personally, I am stunned that we also think that a 26-year-old ADULT has the right to demand that American citizens pay his/her insurance so they can remain on mom and dad's policy. This is just nonsense to me. A person that old should be taking care his own needs. Obamacare is a disaster and I am constantly stunned at the refusal of its proponents to admit that. It has destroyed so many families that before it went into effect were managing. All of this is why I support catastrophic insurance only. That's pretty fucking cold when there is more than one person on this board that wouldn't have insurance due to pre-existing conditions or who would have lost their insurance due to caps and would be dead right now like ME. ER's don't offer emergency chemo. Kind heart my ass. I feel for those who've been hit by high premiums but until American healthcare becomes more socialized it's not going to get better. Read your own comment, Jenis..."I feel for those who've been hit by high premiums, but........" Isn't that pretty cold in itself? Entire families are being destroyed by Obamacare. Izzyscraps has NO insurance now when before Obamacare her family was covered. Isn't it pretty cold for you to make the statement you did! This country cannot afford socialized medicine without changing what and who we are. In my opinion, we should first address the high costs of healthcare. Surely if everyone worked together we could figure out a way to bring that down to make it more affordable for the average American. If we could get the costs down and get people who aren't working and SHOULD be working back into the workplace, perhaps we could all pay for our own insurance as we have done for hundreds of years! Again, I would vote for catastrophic insurance so that no one would be wiped out due to a catastrophic illness. And now I must leave, at least for now. Mr. Snowsilver seems to think he deserves to be fed.
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Post by #notLauren on Sept 17, 2017 22:40:31 GMT
Obamacare is a disaster and I am constantly stunned at the refusal of its proponents to admit that. It has destroyed so many families that before it went into effect were managing. All of this is why I support catastrophic insurance only. I'm supporter of the ACA because I've seen SO MANY people helped by it. I'm stunned that so many Peas want us to turn our backs on them by doing away with it. All of this is why I support single payer Medicare for all, which solves the problem of covering everyone along with addressing out of control costs and undue burdens on providers. Question: are you willing to have every American adult pay federal taxers in order to provide "single payer" coverage? That's the only way I'd be in favor of it. One half of the adult population shouldn't have to foot the bill for the other half as well as themselves and everyone needs to have a financial stake in it.
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Post by jenis40 on Sept 17, 2017 22:41:15 GMT
The opinions I see on here towards anyone who doesn't fall into an "acceptable" group is why I am unlikely to ever vote for a Democrat again in my lifetime. Really? I could say the same about Republicans.
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Post by #notLauren on Sept 17, 2017 22:42:02 GMT
You could. However, I've voted for each party in the past. In the future, I will either vote Republican or not at all.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 17, 2017 22:42:53 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Sept 17, 2017 22:46:31 GMT
That's pretty fucking cold when there is more than one person on this board that wouldn't have insurance due to pre-existing conditions or who would have lost their insurance due to caps and would be dead right now like ME. ER's don't offer emergency chemo. Kind heart my ass. I feel for those who've been hit by high premiums but until American healthcare becomes more socialized it's not going to get better. Read your own comment, Jenis..."I feel for those who've been hit by high premiums, but........" Isn't that pretty cold in itself? Entire families are being destroyed by Obamacare. Izzyscraps has NO insurance now when before Obamacare her family was covered. Isn't it pretty cold for you to make the statement you did! This country cannot afford socialized medicine without changing what and who we are. In my opinion, we should first address the high costs of healthcare. Surely if everyone worked together we could figure out a way to bring that down to make it more affordable for the average American. If we could get the costs down and get people who aren't working and SHOULD be working back into the workplace, perhaps we could all pay for our own insurance as we have done for hundreds of years! Again, I would vote for catastrophic insurance so that no one would be wiped out due to a catastrophic illness. And now I must leave, at least for now. Mr. Snowsilver seems to think he deserves to be fed. One side is feeling empathy for people who would DIE or be BANKRUPT w/o insurance and attendant care it brings (as she said, you can't get chemo in the ER). One side is feeling empathy for millionaires who might have to pay more but could still come home w/millions/year after taxes. Both sides seem to agree that the middle could pay less if the wealthiest pay more. I know which side I'm on.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 17, 2017 22:50:42 GMT
1. Reducing the cost of medical care. This I don't know if it can be done enough to make a difference. If the ACA is repealed tomorrow thousands of health care workers will lose their jobs as there will be less people visiting their doctors. Which makes me think a large part of the expense is employees. And the insurance I placed was for biotech companies and some made medical devices and those devices aren't cheap. So if I'm right the question become to cut costs are there to be less employees and not state of the art medical devices? Or to tell nurses they should get less money?
2. Catastrophic policies or High Risk pools don't work. If I was to buy a 4 door Honda my insurance premium would be one amount. But if I was to buy a very fast sports car at the same limits my premium would be a lot higher with high deductibles. The reason I just increased the exposure by buying the sports car. The insurance companies know anything they pay out in claims is going to be a lot higher than on the Honda. The same applies to Catastrophic and high risk pool policies. Insurance companies know the pay out on these policies is going to be high and they will charge accordingly. It will price too many people out of the market.
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quiltedbrain
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Jun 26, 2014 3:34:53 GMT
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Post by quiltedbrain on Sept 17, 2017 22:52:17 GMT
I'm supporter of the ACA because I've seen SO MANY people helped by it. I'm stunned that so many Peas want us to turn our backs on them by doing away with it. All of this is why I support single payer Medicare for all, which solves the problem of covering everyone along with addressing out of control costs and undue burdens on providers. Question: are you willing to have every American adult pay federal taxers in order to provide "single payer" coverage? That's the only way I'd be in favor of it. One half of the adult population shouldn't have to foot the bill for the other half as well as themselves and everyone needs to have a financial stake in it. Simply speaking, yes. However we live in a world that is not so black and white--not all adults have an income, for a variety of reasons. I am perfectly comfortable with the idea of everyone paying a tax or premium based on income level. I strongly believe that one's access to insurance coverage/health care should not be tied to one's employment.
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Post by jenis40 on Sept 17, 2017 22:58:36 GMT
That's pretty fucking cold when there is more than one person on this board that wouldn't have insurance due to pre-existing conditions or who would have lost their insurance due to caps and would be dead right now like ME. ER's don't offer emergency chemo. Kind heart my ass. I feel for those who've been hit by high premiums but until American healthcare becomes more socialized it's not going to get better. Read your own comment, Jenis..."I feel for those who've been hit by high premiums, but........" Isn't that pretty cold in itself? Entire families are being destroyed by Obamacare. Izzyscraps has NO insurance now when before Obamacare her family was covered. Isn't it pretty cold for you to make the statement you did! This country cannot afford socialized medicine without changing what and who we are. In my opinion, we should first address the high costs of healthcare. Surely if everyone worked together we could figure out a way to bring that down to make it more affordable for the average American. If we could get the costs down and get people who aren't working and SHOULD be working back into the workplace, perhaps we could all pay for our own insurance as we have done for hundreds of years! Again, I would vote for catastrophic insurance so that no one would be wiped out due to a catastrophic illness. And now I must leave, at least for now. Mr. Snowsilver seems to think he deserves to be fed. I celebrated the third anniversary of my bone marrow transplant today. It was the last shot I had to survive Leukemia, a cancer that isn't caused by smoking or other unhealthy habits, I was just unlucky. My treatment cost over a $1 million. If you only had a catastrophic plan for that scenario, most people would be bankrupt before you could say go. Hospitals don't do bone marrow transplants until you prove you can pay it in full so now you're dead. Telling me I don't deserve healthcare because I have a pre-existing condition is like a punch to the gut, especially today. And I'm sure you didn't mean it that way but that's how it's coming across and it pisses me off. Healthcare costs aren't coming down until you take profits out of healthcare and insurance - you know socialized medicine.
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moodyblue
Drama Llama
Posts: 6,173
Location: Western Illinois
Site Supporter
Jun 26, 2014 21:07:23 GMT
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Post by moodyblue on Sept 17, 2017 23:08:55 GMT
That's pretty fucking cold when there is more than one person on this board that wouldn't have insurance due to pre-existing conditions or who would have lost their insurance due to caps and would be dead right now like ME. ER's don't offer emergency chemo. Kind heart my ass. I feel for those who've been hit by high premiums but until American healthcare becomes more socialized it's not going to get better. Read your own comment, Jenis..."I feel for those who've been hit by high premiums, but........" Isn't that pretty cold in itself? Entire families are being destroyed by Obamacare. Izzyscraps has NO insurance now when before Obamacare her family was covered. Isn't it pretty cold for you to make the statement you did! This country cannot afford socialized medicine without changing what and who we are. In my opinion, we should first address the high costs of healthcare. Surely if everyone worked together we could figure out a way to bring that down to make it more affordable for the average American. If we could get the costs down and get people who aren't working and SHOULD be working back into the workplace, perhaps we could all pay for our own insurance as we have done for hundreds of years! Again, I would vote for catastrophic insurance so that no one would be wiped out due to a catastrophic illness. And now I must leave, at least for now. Mr. Snowsilver seems to think he deserves to be fed. I don't know how we can bring down the cost of healthcare without also addressing the other issues. And as long as healthcare and health insurance are for-profit businesses, I think the costs aren't going to decline. I put healthcare in the same category as roads, military, education and emergency services - things we all pay for because they benefit our society as a whole. A healthy population makes the country stronger.
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Post by SockMonkey on Sept 17, 2017 23:14:12 GMT
You're not listening to me. I want izzyscraps to be able to afford it too. And I want the very wealthiest to pay MUCH MORE and the next wealthiest to pay some more and so on, so that those in the middle can pay less and still afford health care. Catastrophic only is not going to help people w/pre-existings either be able to get or keep insurance w/o being kicked off or priced off due to millions in medical bills/year. Zing, you and I have such a fundamental difference in mindset on making the rich "pay" that we would never be able to find a compromise that would work for both of us. That is something we would probably have to agree to disagree on. What we probably CAN agree on is ways to bring the cost of insurance down. I am all for addressing those. Of course we should not be paying the astronomic costs for drugs that we do. Of course medical malpractice should not cost what it does. Of course we should address what people can and cannot sue over and how much lawyers can charge. All these things would help resolve some of the issues that you and I are concerned about. But I will never be for tearing the fabric of what this country was founded on apart: i.e. forcing the "rich" to pay for everyone else just because they had an idea, worked their tails off and made some money. I say "good for them" because they provided jobs or me and mine all of our lives. And maybe even you and yours. Girl, this country was "founded on" the backs of slaves, so let's not drag the founding fathers argument into this. That's a load of shit. Also, most wealth is generational. The idea that the majority of wealthy people are pulling themselves up from their bootstraps and starting from nothing is romantic, but not reality. Ultimately, it comes down to whether or not you believe there are certain fundamental human rights that are the responsibility of all of society. For me, I think all humans have the right to affordable (or ideally free) health care and education, and that should be funded through taxes.
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Post by epeanymous on Sept 17, 2017 23:45:38 GMT
Oh sure, I totally concede that not all got their money by working their tails off. But that is beside the point in my opinion. I just don't think that you or I have the right to tell the rich that they HAVE to pay for the rest of us. Do they have a moral responsibility to help out? Yeah, I think so. But just can't support making it a legal responsibility. I will never be in line with that. And besides--where do we draw the line on who is "rich"? I've seen major fights on that question right here on this forum. We all decide the rules (who is rich, what are the marginal rates, etc.) through voting. That's how our country is set up. I believe that one day we will change the rules/laws to make this country better and more fair not just for the hard working rich but also for the hard working middle and poor. Wealth doesn't happen in a vacuum, either. We invest a tremendous amount in infrastructure, education, and, yes, healthcare; the policy choices we make affect the ability of people to make money. Just look at how Jeff Bezos is shopping around a second Amazon HQ right now and look at his criteria for that headquarters.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 17, 2017 23:53:29 GMT
This country cannot afford socialized medicine without changing what and who we are. In my opinion, we should first address the high costs of healthcare. Again, I would vote for catastrophic insurance so that no one would be wiped out due to a catastrophic illness. Interesting that you consistently refer to universal healthcare as socialized medicine.......a political pejorative that has been defined to mean the government involvement in health care originally used in the 1930. The term socialized medicine was routinely used negatively by US conservative opponents of publicly funded health care who wished to imply it represented socialism, and by extension, communism. Take it from me our Government has far less involvement in our healthcare,except to fund it, than any insurance company in the US has in your healthcare.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 18, 2017 0:31:22 GMT
We all decide the rules (who is rich, what are the marginal rates, etc.) through voting. That's how our country is set up. I believe that one day we will change the rules/laws to make this country better and more fair not just for the hard working rich but also for the hard working middle and poor. Wealth doesn't happen in a vacuum, either. We invest a tremendous amount in infrastructure, education, and, yes, healthcare; the policy choices we make affect the ability of people to make money. Just look at how Jeff Bezos is shopping around a second Amazon HQ right now and look at his criteria for that headquarters. I was at a conference on Thurs where a panel of investors, Asian geo-pols, etc. were discussing Japan and China. They were talking about the invention of the blue LED. One of the men on the panel said how the invention was traced directly to the idea of one man who worked tirelessly to refine the concept which led to the proliferation of the LED light bulbs we have today. He was vaunting the idea of the solitary genius who single-handedly changes the world. The woman on the panel (who works for the Paulson institute, so no slack) corrected him. He didn't "single-handedly" change the world. Japan has astounding education systems, paid for by taxes. It has amazing infrastructure - roads, test beds, access to trained employees, etc, paid for by taxes. She slammed this notion of "one person" because that "one person" in a different economy might never have been educated enough to come up w/the concept, or test it through the university system or find enough trained, stable people to bring it to market at scale. I loved that she shoved the asinine idea of the "single-handed" inventor where it belongs. We, as societies, will rise or fall together, especially in the new world of connectivity. Those societies who care for each other will rise. Those who don't, will fall (and the wealthiest will take their (money)ball and hightail it to pleasanter pastures), if we keep using the outdated notions of the lone-inventor past to run the economies of the future.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 18, 2017 0:32:52 GMT
Read your own comment, Jenis..."I feel for those who've been hit by high premiums, but........" Isn't that pretty cold in itself? Entire families are being destroyed by Obamacare. Izzyscraps has NO insurance now when before Obamacare her family was covered. Isn't it pretty cold for you to make the statement you did! This country cannot afford socialized medicine without changing what and who we are. In my opinion, we should first address the high costs of healthcare. Surely if everyone worked together we could figure out a way to bring that down to make it more affordable for the average American. If we could get the costs down and get people who aren't working and SHOULD be working back into the workplace, perhaps we could all pay for our own insurance as we have done for hundreds of years! Again, I would vote for catastrophic insurance so that no one would be wiped out due to a catastrophic illness. And now I must leave, at least for now. Mr. Snowsilver seems to think he deserves to be fed. I celebrated the third anniversary of my bone marrow transplant today. It was the last shot I had to survive Leukemia, a cancer that isn't caused by smoking or other unhealthy habits, I was just unlucky. My treatment cost over a $1 million. If you only had a catastrophic plan for that scenario, most people would be bankrupt before you could say go. Hospitals don't do bone marrow transplants until you prove you can pay it in full so now you're dead. Telling me I don't deserve healthcare because I have a pre-existing condition is like a punch to the gut, especially today. And I'm sure you didn't mean it that way but that's how it's coming across and it pisses me off. Healthcare costs aren't coming down until you take profits out of healthcare and insurance - you know socialized medicine. Grateful you are here, Jenis! Grateful you got the treatment that allowed you to be here, today.
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Post by papercrafteradvocate on Sept 18, 2017 1:08:25 GMT
The opinions I see on here towards anyone who doesn't fall into an "acceptable" group is why I am unlikely to ever vote for a Democrat again in my lifetime. Oh please spare us the drama in your fake butt hurt over another person's opinion, when you're guilty of the same exact thing, if people don't agree with you they are not "acceptable" , your sanctimonious attitude from your start as a new ID is proof of that. Well then, good. Democrats don't need people like you either.
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Post by papercrafteradvocate on Sept 18, 2017 1:10:45 GMT
You're not listening to me. I want izzyscraps to be able to afford it too. And I want the very wealthiest to pay MUCH MORE and the next wealthiest to pay some more and so on, so that those in the middle can pay less and still afford health care. Catastrophic only is not going to help people w/pre-existings either be able to get or keep insurance w/o being kicked off or priced off due to millions in medical bills/year. Zing, you and I have such a fundamental difference in mindset on making the rich "pay" that we would never be able to find a compromise that would work for both of us. That is something we would probably have to agree to disagree on. What we probably CAN agree on is ways to bring the cost of insurance down. I am all for addressing those. Of course we should not be paying the astronomic costs for drugs that we do. Of course medical malpractice should not cost what it does. Of course we should address what people can and cannot sue over and how much lawyers can charge. All these things would help resolve some of the issues that you and I are concerned about. But I will never be for tearing the fabric of what this country was founded on apart: i.e. forcing the "rich" to pay for everyone else just because they had an idea, worked their tails off and made some money. I say "good for them" because they provided jobs or me and mine all of our lives. And maybe even you and yours. Well, you are for the conservative ticket, and those same GOP's in Congress are allowing the country to be demoralized, embarrassed and torn apart because of the deplorable in office now.
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Post by epeanymous on Sept 18, 2017 2:50:41 GMT
Wealth doesn't happen in a vacuum, either. We invest a tremendous amount in infrastructure, education, and, yes, healthcare; the policy choices we make affect the ability of people to make money. Just look at how Jeff Bezos is shopping around a second Amazon HQ right now and look at his criteria for that headquarters. I was at a conference on Thurs where a panel of investors, Asian geo-pols, etc. were discussing Japan and China. They were talking about the invention of the blue LED. One of the men on the panel said how the invention was traced directly to the idea of one man who worked tirelessly to refine the concept which led to the proliferation of the LED light bulbs we have today. He was vaunting the idea of the solitary genius who single-handedly changes the world. The woman on the panel (who works for the Paulson institute, so no slack) corrected him. He didn't "single-handedly" change the world. Japan has astounding education systems, paid for by taxes. It has amazing infrastructure - roads, test beds, access to trained employees, etc, paid for by taxes. She slammed this notion of "one person" because that "one person" in a different economy might never have been educated enough to come up w/the concept, or test it through the university system or find enough trained, stable people to bring it to market at scale. I loved that she shoved the asinine idea of the "single-handed" inventor where it belongs. We, as societies, will rise or fall together, especially in the new world of connectivity. Those societies who care for each other will rise. Those who don't, will fall (and the wealthiest will take their (money)ball and hightail it to pleasanter pastures), if we keep using the outdated notions of the lone-inventor past to run the economies of the future. We have a lone wolf frontier superstar narrative in America. It's not serving us particularly well conceptually right now.
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jayfab
Drama Llama
procastinating
Posts: 5,521
Jun 26, 2014 21:55:15 GMT
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Post by jayfab on Sept 18, 2017 2:55:01 GMT
The opinions I see on here towards anyone who doesn't fall into an "acceptable" group is why I am unlikely to ever vote for a Democrat again in my lifetime. Really? I could say the same about Republicans. 100% agree. I never voted straight ticket, always mixed it up. Never will again. I can't ever see myself voting for a Rebublican again. Their ideas are too far out for me. I can't vote for a me and me only and to hell with anyone else party.
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Post by snowsilver on Sept 18, 2017 3:09:01 GMT
I'm trying to find "the hundreds" on this group who's "lives were completely ruined" by the ACA. What's really rich is that every single "conservative" plan RAISES premiums for virtually everyone and the Trump train holding back or refusing to pay is what is hurting the ACA right now. Do I think the ACA is perfect? NO. Do I think that insurance companies are taking advantage? YES. Do I think "the rich" should pay for my insurance? Not really. Do I think that FIRST AND FOREMOST the COSTS of medical, dr visits, treatments, and Rx should be addressed, reduced--Definitely YES. Costs are OUT OF CONTROL. My insurance is self funded. I pay for me and mine. I'm okay with a portion of my taxes going towards medical care of others--because ITS THE HUMANITARIAN THING TO DO. And I'm sick to fucking death of hearing the conservatives say that these devastatingly sick people, who through no fault of their own have been either born with or contracted life ending illness, need to "get a job that pays their health care" "pay their own way" "if only they would take care of themselves" "26 yr olds should be paying their own way and not be on parents policies" etc. The economy has changed drastically--kids are not leaving their parents homes right out of high school or college because they cannot afford it and/or they have to work 2-3 jobs (companies only wanting to hire part time) just to make a non-living wage. How do we expect kids in college to pay for these insurance policies? They're going to school. What about those who are <26 who are mentally, physically challenged who will ALWAYS be in their parents care? Do we bankrupt the parents because at what age--18?--they get kicked off their parents insurance??? Then what? There is no easy solution and anyone trying to "cure it all" in one package is going to meet obstruction and failure. For me, it's more about the insensitivity, who gives a fuck about others attitude (all the really shitty statements from the GOP'ers and conservatives) and that it IS all about the benefit to those more financially able--just go back to the statements made by Trump surrogates and GOP, they've acknowledged that more than once. I just don't have time to respond to all the posts here tonight (got a deadline I'm having to meet), but I do want to at least respond to you PCA. First of all--some of our taxes have always gone to pay towards the medical care of others. Always! That's nothing new. What is new is saying that it is a basic human right--which there is nothing in our Constitution that guarantees that at all. I know that I will be called heartless because I do not consider it a "right" but really that is untrue and unfair. Our country has managed for nearly 300 years without free healthcare and we have prospered. I am absolutely not heartless, and there is no way that I could be put in a position of deciding who should get any kind of goodie because I'm a softy really and I'd end up giving the store away. But I feel that logic has to rule, and logic says that when nearly half our population is not working, there is no way the other half can pay for everything. Of course I agree with you--things HAVE changed. But much of that change is due to some of the policies liberals support. Employers no longer want to hire full time because of Obamacare. They can't afford the insurance premiums. So we all suffer with part time jobs. Believe me, I know what I am talking about with this. I stand by my statement that a 26 year old is an adult and should be responsible for his/her own insurance. Or Mom and Dad can pay if if they like. But your neighbor should not be required to pay for your adult child. But you asked how about 26 year olds who are physically and mentally challenged--to me that is a different thing. Social programs should exist for people like that and I support them. And comments that state that conservatives (like me) are insensitive, etc. just aren't true. I am far from heartless. I just think this path we're heading down where we basically give it all away will leave ALL of us broke. Izzyscraps is just one example. Thank you for a reasonable post. Of course we will never completely agree. But your side has to give too. And the reason I took the time to respond to you is that YOU actually did give a bit. You said that the cost of medical care has to be addressed and that is one of my hot buttons. I just cannot believe that anyone would think that there is nothing to be done with that. And now I better get my article done. Thanks, PCA.
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Deleted
Posts: 0
May 5, 2024 16:01:47 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Sept 18, 2017 3:16:44 GMT
And comments that state that conservatives (like me) are insensitive, etc. just aren't true. I am far from heartless. I just think this path we're heading down where we basically give it all away will leave ALL of us broke. Izzyscraps is just one example. 10% of us own 76% of the wealth of the nation (trillions of dollars). They've got a LOOOONNNNNNGGGGGGG way to go before they're broke. But again, you carry on worrying about the billionaires and millionaires. Many of the rest of us will be worrying about the poor, the ill and the middle.
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mimima
Drama Llama
Stay Gold, Ponyboy
Posts: 5,017
Jun 25, 2014 19:25:50 GMT
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Post by mimima on Sept 18, 2017 3:32:12 GMT
Interestingly, I was in a conversation today where it was discussed that large corporations are having difficulty recruiting international prospects due to the US health care policies.
I am fundamentally uncomfortable with a for profit system that links access to health care with employment. It seems to be the antithesis of wanting to encourage small businesses and it is making us unequal in competing internationally.
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