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Post by Deleted on Sept 8, 2014 2:38:14 GMT
And so it begins.
My Daughter is a history buff. We all are. She tested out of 8th grade American History last year and did independent study all year, achieving an A+.
Now she is a freshman. She is taking a tough work load of Algebra 2, Honors Biology, French 2, Language Arts, and is the Viola section leader for the symphony orchestra. Because of this, we opted to not have her take the "advanced" history course called Humanities, which is a dual history/language arts class that entails an incredible amount of writing and hours of homework every night. I have heard horror stories from parents whose kids took Humanities, but not one positive thing. So we decided that her work load was heavy enough and she didn't need to add that stress.
So, she is in basic World Studies. She was looking forward to it, since her focus has been mainly American history up til now.
She has been complaining about the class since day one. The teacher has a "reward" system that is more suited for 4th graders. Every day they are "good" they get points, and if they earn X points by end of quarter, they get a pizza party. yay!
However, last week she came home really upset. First, the first test they took she got a "PERFECT" on - the teacher actually wrote that on the paper, along side the grade of 95%. HUH?? It's "Perfect", but only a 95%??
Then, The teacher assigned them a "project" on the Renaisannce and Reformation. Get this...They have 3 levels of project to choose from. Easy, medium or advanced. (seriously??) If they choose easy, the highest grade they can earn is a 75, 85 for medium, and 95 for advanced. Okaaaay....My daughter immediately asked why 95 was the highest score she could achieve, and was told "If you are good enough to get a 100%, you shouldn't be in this class, you should be in humanities". Say WHAT??
So, I emailed the teacher for clarification. Two days went by with no response, so my husband called the Guidance counselor. After some tap dancing, she transferred him to the Principal. DH had a good conversation with him...turns out he is a former history teacher himself. He was completely shocked by what DH told him and said he would get to the bottom of it. He did, that day, call Daughter and the Teacher to his office and talked to them both. DD said it was a really good conversation, which I'm glad for....and teacher told her that she was responding to my email poste haste, that it was all a "misunderstanding", and she could indeed earn 100%.
Okay, great....except no. Not really.
I got the email a few hours later. Basically, she said that due to the new "standards based curriculum" the history dept was reworking its grading criteria. It IS possible for any student to achieve an A+ (98-100%) in the class, but in order to do so they must demonstrate an "advanced mastery" of the subject by going to the teachers on their own and asking for extra work, and the teachers will work with the student and "create a rubric" and come up with a project to complete. again.....SAY WHAT??? So if my daughter, or any student, creates a project that meets or exceeds the standard, they still can only get a 95% and must now do extra credit if they want the A+ (and the GPA bump that comes with it) above and beyond what they have already done that is supposedly what is required by the standards. I am SOOOOO confused!
I am really peeved over this. Would this fly in math class? If a student gets all the problems right on a test, do they only get a 95%, and then have to go above and beyond and do more work to garner the extra 5% that they EARNED in the first place? I think not! Why is this the case with History?? ANY student should be able to earn that A+ based upon the course curriculum, should they not?? It is awfully arbitrary to tell them up front that no matter how well they do or how hard they work, they can't earn it without doing EXTRA work, isn't it? Extra Credit is what we used to call this, and it was for when you needed the extra points to make up for the poor test, or paper or project that you didn't get such a good grade on.
What am I missing here?? Any teachers out there with any experience with this?
And one other gripe...all the projects (homework) that are assigned have a "flexible" due date. They are technically due by Friday, but as long as they are all finished by the end of the term, there will be no penalty. Excuse me??? How is that teaching the kids how to manage the real world? "Okay kids, you only have to strive to be mediocre (Choose the easy projects) and don't worry about doing your work on time because there will be no ramifications if you don't. Just get it done sometime." Yeah...we will have lots of kids ready for the workforce won't we?
Common Core is the devil. I fear this is only my first battle of many.
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Deleted
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Mar 28, 2024 21:27:16 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Sept 8, 2014 2:42:42 GMT
Well, it seems out of place for high school, but that is very similar to the way grading in university works. To get an A+ you have to "go above and beyond" the expectations of the assignment. I don't agree with it, but that's the way it works in the real world.
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Post by freecharlie on Sept 8, 2014 2:44:36 GMT
Because I am on my phone and not my computer, I can't type out a lengthy reply, but...
This has nothing to do with Common Core which are standards each grade level has to meet, but is instead directly related to either your school or district.
Please people (not just the op but all parents), learn what common core is and isn't so the schools can't use it as an excuse.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 8, 2014 2:47:55 GMT
That has nothing to do with the common core. Not one thing.
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Post by myshelly on Sept 8, 2014 2:48:51 GMT
This is NOT common core.
I wish people would educate themselves about what common core is before posting complaints about it.
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SabrinaP
Pearl Clutcher
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Jun 26, 2014 12:16:22 GMT
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Post by SabrinaP on Sept 8, 2014 2:53:04 GMT
This has nothing to do with Common Core. The Common Core is just a set of standards and has nothing to do with grading policies.
I have heard of this philosophy of grading. I went to a workshop recently where the presenter related it to the job force. He said if you only do your job and nothing extra, you will never be promoted. In order to move up in the job force, you need to do your job plus more. He said we need to teach kids that just do the expectations is the minimum, to get a 100, they should go beyond. I'm not sure where I stand on this philosophy, but I did find it interesting.
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Post by *sprout* on Sept 8, 2014 2:55:26 GMT
Common core is the curriculum standard that must be met (ie The student will demonstrate...). Common core is NOT the method used to reach those standards.
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Post by jojam on Sept 8, 2014 2:56:02 GMT
This is NOT common core. I wish people would educate themselves about what common core is before posting complaints about it.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 8, 2014 2:56:05 GMT
I disagree. Maybe we use Common Core as a catchall phrase more than we should these days, to describe the changes occurring in our education system that are not making any sense. But you can no more prove that this isn't driven by a top-down standard than I can prove that it is. So take that out of the picture if you want to get hung up on words.
The fact of the matter is, I resent that our students are not able to earn an A+ by doing the course work assigned and achieving a "perfect" on the tests. This is high school. Not college or graduate school. And only in history is this being applied. No other subject takes away that ability. None. The Principal, who has been at this school for two years, was completely unaware of this "new" grading system.
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Post by elaine on Sept 8, 2014 2:58:01 GMT
The minimum = average = C; if you want a grade that is higher than a C, you must go above and beyond the minimum requirements.
Those are the standards we use at the college level.
Grading standards have nothing to do with subject matter standards and / or common core subject matter standards.
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Post by freecharlie on Sept 8, 2014 2:59:18 GMT
I disagree. Maybe we use Common Core as a catchall phrase more than we should these days, to describe the changes occurring in our education system that are not making any sense. But you can no more prove that this isn't driven by a top-down standard than I can prove that it is. So take that out of the picture if you want to get hung up on words. The fact of the matter is, I resent that our students are not able to earn an A+ by doing the course work assigned and achieving a "perfect" on the tests. This is high school. Not college or graduate school. And only in history is this being applied. No other subject takes away that ability. None. The Principal, who has been at this school for two years, was completely unaware of this "new" grading system. Then your issue is with the History department. Common core is a set of standards. Each grade level is supposed to be tested on meeting this standards. And more importantly, this instance, there are NO common core standards for social studies. They are supposed to incorporate the ELA and math standards, but there are no stand alone history standards. Your state has made those.
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Post by *sprout* on Sept 8, 2014 3:00:07 GMT
I understand your frustration. However, the grading system a teacher uses is not common core.
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Deleted
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Mar 28, 2024 21:27:16 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Sept 8, 2014 3:01:11 GMT
I disagree. Maybe we use Common Core as a catchall phrase more than we should these days, to describe the changes occurring in our education system that are not making any sense. But you can no more prove that this isn't driven by a top-down standard than I can prove that it is. So take that out of the picture if you want to get hung up on words. The fact of the matter is, I resent that our students are not able to earn an A+ by doing the course work assigned and achieving a "perfect" on the tests. This is high school. Not college or graduate school. And only in history is this being applied. No other subject takes away that ability. None. The Principal, who has been at this school for two years, was completely unaware of this "new" grading system. And again this does not have one thing to do with the Common Core. You cannot blame it on that. Period.
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Post by freecharlie on Sept 8, 2014 3:02:02 GMT
The minimum = average = C Those are the standards we use at the college level. Grading standards have nothing to do with subject matter and / or common core. Maybe it has changed in the five years since I got my master's, but I've not experienced this. I've always had classes that give number of possible points and then a breakdown of what is weighted in each area. Finally they give you the grading standards, in grad school it was 93 and up for an A, but if I did the work and got the points, I got the grade.
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Post by myshelly on Sept 8, 2014 3:06:44 GMT
I disagree. Maybe we use Common Core as a catchall phrase more than we should these days, to describe the changes occurring in our education system that are not making any sense. But you can no more prove that this isn't driven by a top-down standard than I can prove that it is. So take that out of the picture if you want to get hung up on words. The fact of the matter is, I resent that our students are not able to earn an A+ by doing the course work assigned and achieving a "perfect" on the tests. This is high school. Not college or graduate school. And only in history is this being applied. No other subject takes away that ability. None. The Principal, who has been at this school for two years, was completely unaware of this "new" grading system. Using the wrong words makes you sound like you have no idea what you are talking about. If you want to have an intelligent discourse on grading philosophy then use the right words for that. If you want to have an intelligent discourse regarding common core then learn what it is. If you want to make no sense then continue on your current course.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 8, 2014 3:07:16 GMT
Because I am on my phone and not my computer, I can't type out a lengthy reply, but... This has nothing to do with Common Core which are standards each grade level has to meet, but is instead directly related to either your school or district. Please people (not just the op but all parents), learn what common core is and isn't so the schools can't use it as an excuse. I don't think educators and parents are communicating well. When a parent hears "common core is the standards each grade level has to meet" what parents translate that phrase to mean IS grading. Grades are standards. What does my child need to do to meet the standard of an A or a B? Can anyone explain what common core is without using the word standards?
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Post by SabrinaM on Sept 8, 2014 3:09:28 GMT
We have been doing CC in NC for 2 years. DD (7th grade) has gotten a final grade of 102% (Math) and also 100% in several subjects. She's in Advanced/honors/gifted and regular ed classes depending on highest level being taught for a particular subject. She's currently taking Alg 1 Honors and has 100%.
For us personally, CC has worked out well but I have seen first hand in the classroom how students struggle with the pace of the material being covered as well as the countless assessments. I'm not a fan of how NC has implemented it.
We are about a month into Louisiana's CC. It's much easier and slower paced (it seems). I'm not familiar enough with it yet to make a judgment call.
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Post by elaine on Sept 8, 2014 3:10:27 GMT
The minimum = average = C Those are the standards we use at the college level. Grading standards have nothing to do with subject matter and / or common core. Maybe it has changed in the five years since I got my master's, but I've not experienced this. I've always had classes that give number of possible points and then a breakdown of what is weighted in each area. Finally they give you the grading standards, in grad school it was 93 and up for an A, but if I did the work and got the points, I got the grade. How were your papers and written assignments graded, though? For us, the minimum met in a paper and other written assignments gets you a C, if you want a B or an A, you had best go beyond the minimum number of sources cited, words/pages, etc. Certainly, if you earned a certain number of points on a test, or at the end of the course for all your assignments, you get the corresponding grade, but I have received direction that written assignments are to be graded according to a rubric that dictates that the minimum required/asked for by the assignment = a C.
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Post by SabrinaM on Sept 8, 2014 3:12:38 GMT
For projects my girls are always given a Rubric with standards/possible points neededto achieve a certain grade.
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AmeliaBloomer
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Post by AmeliaBloomer on Sept 8, 2014 3:14:00 GMT
I'm also baffled that this is being interpreted as as Common Core (which is neither perfect nor the devil).
Our elementary district tried a grading philosophy like this many years ago. The highest grades were reserved for those who went above and beyond. It was an effort to encourage intellectual curiosity, curb grade inflation, and prepare students for higher education (granted, the higher ed that existed before student expectation of perfect grades hit colleges) and the workforce. As a teacher-parent, I welcomed the policy, but the parents of the highest achieving students (so, mostly everyone...) became extremely angry and it was re-worked a couple years later.
As a teacher, I try to answer emails within 24 hours, but sometimes can't. When one of my kids' teachers (especially high school) didn't answer in two days, I re-sent the email. I appreciate when a parent offers me the same courtesy.
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SabrinaP
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Jun 26, 2014 12:16:22 GMT
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Post by SabrinaP on Sept 8, 2014 3:14:33 GMT
Can anyone explain what common core is without using the word standards? It is a set of objectives in each grade that students must learn. It is the curriculum for all states that adopted the Common Core. In Texas, we have the TEKS objectives, but they are virtually the same.
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Post by freecharlie on Sept 8, 2014 3:17:21 GMT
Because I am on my phone and not my computer, I can't type out a lengthy reply, but... This has nothing to do with Common Core which are standards each grade level has to meet, but is instead directly related to either your school or district. Please people (not just the op but all parents), learn what common core is and isn't so the schools can't use it as an excuse. I don't think educators and parents are communicating well. When a parent hears "common core is the standards each grade level has to meet" what parents translate that phrase to mean IS grading. Grades are standards. What does my child need to do to meet the standard of an A or a B? Can anyone explain what common core is without using the word standards? common core = what a student should be able to do by the end of the year in general terms. For instance, the standard could be: multiply and divide two digit numbers. In each s) both ELA and math the standards are broken into groups. Math is broken into numeracy, algebraic thinking, data analysis, and geometry. ELA is broken into oral and listen skills, reading skills (two branches), and writing.
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Post by anxiousmom on Sept 8, 2014 3:18:08 GMT
And one other gripe...all the projects (homework) that are assigned have a "flexible" due date. They are technically due by Friday, but as long as they are all finished by the end of the term, there will be no penalty. Excuse me??? How is that teaching the kids how to manage the real world? "Okay kids, you only have to strive to be mediocre (Choose the easy projects) and don't worry about doing your work on time because there will be no ramifications if you don't. Just get it done sometime." Yeah...we will have lots of kids ready for the workforce won't we? Florida and common core...well, that is all a long discussion for another thread. I will say though, that my experience thus far has been positive, or at least not something that has impacted my son's educational experience. But I did want to comment on the flexible due dates. I spent an entire summer pumping up a kid of mine to prepare him for his first dual enrollment class-talking about how it was harder, how he had to pay more attention to due dates, etc. Imagine my surprise when I saw the syllabus and this is how he graded. There were due dates, and then there was the end of the term when every thing *really* had to be submitted...with no penalty for late projects. So...this isn't as far outside the realm of possibility as far as what can be expected in college.
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Post by freecharlie on Sept 8, 2014 3:19:47 GMT
Maybe it has changed in the five years since I got my master's, but I've not experienced this. I've always had classes that give number of possible points and then a breakdown of what is weighted in each area. Finally they give you the grading standards, in grad school it was 93 and up for an A, but if I did the work and got the points, I got the grade. How were your papers and written assignments graded, though? For us, the minimum met in a paper and other written assignments gets you a C, if you want a B or an A, you had best go beyond the minimum number of sources cited, words/pages, etc. Certainly, if you earned a certain number of points on a test, or at the end of the course for all your assignments, you get the corresponding grade, but I have received direction that written assignments are to be graded according to a rubric that dictates that the minimum required/asked for by the assignment = a C. I think in this case, a rubric would be given. 3 points for 3 sources, 4 points for at least three two of which are primary, and 5 points for using a variety of sources and at least 4 or something. If all you are doing is giving the requirements for a paper without explaining that you actually want more, I think that is a disservice to your studenta.
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Post by myshelly on Sept 8, 2014 3:20:06 GMT
Common core is basically just a list that says First graders should learn: ABC Second graders should learn: DEF and so on.
Common core is NOT a curriculum. Common core is NOT a grading system. Common core is NOT a teaching method. Common core is NOT a textbook. Common core is NOT a worksheet. Common core is NOT a method of classroom management. Common core is NOT projects. Common core is NOT an assessment.
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georgiapea
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Jun 27, 2014 18:02:10 GMT
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Post by georgiapea on Sept 8, 2014 3:20:12 GMT
It's looking like your DD would have been better off to take the Humanities class. In that she's now embroiled in this big hassle with the teacher.
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Post by freecharlie on Sept 8, 2014 3:20:43 GMT
Can anyone explain what common core is without using the word standards? It is a set of objectives in each grade that students must learn. It is the curriculum for all states that adopted the Common Core. In Texas, we have the TEKS objectives, but they are virtually the same. not curriculum
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Post by elaine on Sept 8, 2014 3:26:36 GMT
How were your papers and written assignments graded, though? For us, the minimum met in a paper and other written assignments gets you a C, if you want a B or an A, you had best go beyond the minimum number of sources cited, words/pages, etc. Certainly, if you earned a certain number of points on a test, or at the end of the course for all your assignments, you get the corresponding grade, but I have received direction that written assignments are to be graded according to a rubric that dictates that the minimum required/asked for by the assignment = a C. I think in this case, a rubric would be given. 3 points for 3 sources, 4 points for at least three two of which are primary, and 5 points for using a variety of sources and at least 4 or something. If all you are doing is giving the requirements for a paper without explaining that you actually want more, I think that is a disservice to your studenta. Of course! The various written and oral presentation assignments are in the syllabus with the minimum requirements for the assignments. Those requirements are the same for all instructors teaching different sections of the same overall course. For example, the common syllabus for all Intro Psych classes being taught that semester. Then as we get closer to the due dates for the assignments, I also give out the grading rubrics for each assignment. The students always know what I want from them. It is much easier to grade better papers and oral presentations than less well prepared/written ones, so I selfishly always encourage my students to meet the top tier of the rubrics. It is still depressing to see the number of them who settle for meeting the minimum.
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Post by 950nancy on Sept 8, 2014 3:35:07 GMT
Because I am on my phone and not my computer, I can't type out a lengthy reply, but... This has nothing to do with Common Core which are standards each grade level has to meet, but is instead directly related to either your school or district. Please people (not just the op but all parents), learn what common core is and isn't so the schools can't use it as an excuse. I thought the same thing too. Common Core is a new(er) set of standards. For us, now there are fewer standards, but they are more rigorous than the previous standards. I think this is a teacher thing. It sounds weird to me. My kids can earn 100% on any assignment. How can I offer less? Perhaps if 5% of her grade depended on additional out of classroom activities it would make more sense than telling someone the highest grade they can achieve is 95%. I have that kid (lives downstairs) who knows exactly what he has to score on every single assignment to maintain his GPA. It is funny to watch him.
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Jili
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Jun 26, 2014 1:26:48 GMT
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Post by Jili on Sept 8, 2014 3:54:28 GMT
I am in complete agreement with everyone else who's explained that this has nothing whatsoever to do with Common Core.
I have to throw it in, however, that what your daughter experienced with this history teacher reminds me a great deal of the new teacher evaluation system that is in place in my State (and in many others, too, from what I understand). Basically we are told, "you may get to visit "Distinguished", but most everyone will live in "Proficient". In other words, pretty much no one will earn a rating of Distinguished/Excellent, and that's made clear from the start.
Yes, it sucks. Especially since part of our pay is tied into our performance ratings.
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