Deleted
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Apr 24, 2024 21:56:48 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Sept 8, 2014 4:11:18 GMT
As has been said, this has to do with your school, not Common Core.
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Post by dreamer on Sept 8, 2014 4:11:29 GMT
You are a pompous ass.
Now on to the topic. I've been to college myself. They usually have the syllabus that gives an outline of what the grade will be. I've never heard of having to go 'above and beyond' to achieve and "A".
Lynlam: How frustrating for you. Is there another class she could take? Can you find something online? If the principal wasn't even aware of this kind of grading do they actually have a say so in the matter?
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AmeliaBloomer
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Location: USA
Jun 26, 2014 5:01:45 GMT
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Post by AmeliaBloomer on Sept 8, 2014 4:30:11 GMT
While I wouldn't have used the same posting style, I agree that the OP needs to be cautioned about accurately describing the roots of the problem. She titled her post "Our First Run-In with Common Core" and began with "And so it begins...," so it would appear that she anticipated problems that she can trace to Common Core standards. If she believes she will need to continue alerting school staff to problems, and exploring solutions, the language she uses could result in communication breakdowns. If gun control proponents on this board can/should be chastised for offering opinions about firearms and ammunition they don't truly understand, the same standard can be expected for educational policies.
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Deleted
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Apr 24, 2024 21:56:48 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Sept 8, 2014 4:35:09 GMT
Now on to the topic. I've been to college myself. They usually have the syllabus that gives an outline of what the grade will be. I've never heard of having to go 'above and beyond' to achieve and "A". Between my mom, my husband, and I we've taught/been educated at four different universities in 3 different fields; "above and beyond" for an A+ in the course is the standard practice at all of those schools. It really is a common way of grading in post secondary education.
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paigepea
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Jun 26, 2014 4:28:55 GMT
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Post by paigepea on Sept 8, 2014 4:40:11 GMT
I teach high school and above and beyond for a humanities subject is normal, especially since it is easy to go above and beyond on written assignments or projects. I would put this grading practice into my rubrics.
The due date thing is annoying, but not abnormal.
It's too bad your dd didn't take humanities. It is a phenomenal course, especially for someone who has a significant interest. Learning to write in another discipline (history) is a great skill, and it's very different from writing in LA.
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Post by chances on Sept 8, 2014 5:50:31 GMT
Now on to the topic. I've been to college myself. They usually have the syllabus that gives an outline of what the grade will be. I've never heard of having to go 'above and beyond' to achieve and "A". Between my mom, my husband, and I we've taught/been educated at four different universities in 3 different fields; "above and beyond" for an A+ in the course is the standard practice at all of those schools. It really is a common way of grading in post secondary education. Meeting the standard is a C. Doing more will put the student in the B and A range. I do think Lynlam has an interesting point about this being high school not college. I honestly don't remember how I was graded in high school, but I know my incoming freshman have no idea what A work is. I'm glad to hear that high schools are trying to bridge the gap a bit. on the other hand, high schoolers should probably be coddled a bit. I'm curious to hear what high school teachers think.
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Post by christine58 on Sept 8, 2014 10:00:51 GMT
That's a NOT COMMON CORE issue.
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Post by monklady123 on Sept 8, 2014 10:22:17 GMT
Common core is basically just a list that says First graders should learn: ABC Second graders should learn: DEF and so on. Common core is NOT a curriculum. Common core is NOT a grading system. Common core is NOT a teaching method. Common core is NOT a textbook. Common core is NOT a worksheet. Common core is NOT a method of classroom management. Common core is NOT projects. Common core is NOT an assessment. I am SO glad that I live in a state (Virginia) that did not adopt Common Core, because I don't have to listen to people blame everything they don't like on CC. Put the blame on the kid, or the textbook, or the counselor, or the teacher, or the superintendent, or No Child Left Behind. Every state (or almost every state...to be honest I don't know about all of them) has standardized tests that measure the kids' success on state-wide common standards. That's all CC is except it's across states. (and only in language arts and math, nothing else).
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ddly
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Posts: 3,947
Jul 10, 2014 19:36:28 GMT
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Post by ddly on Sept 8, 2014 10:24:33 GMT
I agree that this has nothing to do with common core. This has to do with standards-based grading. Bad standards based grading.
We use standards-based grading and use a grade scale of 1.5 to 4. There are no percents and there are no letter grades. We actually start our scale at 1.5 and anything below is failing (but it's not actually failing, it's not showing proficiency of the standard and they have all year to do that, but that's a different conversation). In order to earn a 4, you need to go above and beyond. What above and beyond is is left up to the discretion of the teacher but is based on showing proficiency/mastery of the common core standard(s) being assessed. I'm in a state that is pretty progressive in terms of education. We are one of the first high schools interstate to be using standards-based grading and we are also using flexible pathways and other ways to assess the standards. A student can set up an independent study, an internship or take a college class and earn credit. But I digress . . .
There aren't history common core standards. They are ELA standards.
I also think if you're concerned about it being high school, you should be concerned they are still using letter grades.
Lisa D.
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scrapnnana
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Jun 29, 2014 18:58:47 GMT
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Post by scrapnnana on Sept 8, 2014 10:25:27 GMT
As has been explained to me many times, Common Core is a very short list of what students are expected to learn.
It is up to the schools and the individual state to decide how those standards are to be taught. From your description, it sounds to me like the teacher is confused or else covering for her inadequacies in explaining how HER grading system works; or if your child is at a school with a "team" approach, how the team has decided things are to be done.
Our son's 8th grade experiences were the reason we chose to homeschool. They were different from what your daughter is dealing with, but it was clear that at least part of the problem was two individual teachers on the team my son was assigned to.
There are some great teachers in every school system, along with some who aren't. It sounds like your DD got one of the latter.
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ddly
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Jul 10, 2014 19:36:28 GMT
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Post by ddly on Sept 8, 2014 10:31:10 GMT
It is a set of objectives in each grade that students must learn. It is the curriculum for all states that adopted the Common Core. In Texas, we have the TEKS objectives, but they are virtually the same. not curriculum Schools still have to develop the curriculum.
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Post by brina on Sept 8, 2014 12:01:14 GMT
I really wish people would stop blaming common core for every half assed thing their schools are implementing.
This is a ridiculous school policy, but has nothing to do with common core.
Our school offers three levels of every class. You can earn an A+ in the lowest classes as well as the highest classes.
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Post by moosedogtoo on Sept 8, 2014 12:03:43 GMT
This has nothing to do with Common Core which are standards each grade level has to meet, but is instead directly related to either your school or district.Please people (not just the op but all parents), learn what common core is and isn't so the schools can't use it as an excuse.
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scrapaddie
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Jul 8, 2014 20:17:31 GMT
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Post by scrapaddie on Sept 8, 2014 12:23:19 GMT
I won't address the common core issue, because many others have already addressed this. But I do want to address what you have run into in trying to select an easier course for your child. One of the advantages to honors classes is that the students typically are more motivated. Therefore the teacher can teach the subject and not be so concerned about class control and class motivation. This is actually very helpful to the honors student. It's one of the reasons why teachers love to teach the honors classes. By selecting a lower level class, you have put your child in situation where the teacher will have to spend more time motivating and controlling students. A C for the minimum? In an honors class, the teacher would never even think about minimums. But in a regular class many students will be happy to get that C and will purposefully only do the minimum . And there will be those in the class that will not even do the minimum. The depth of the class will also be less because while honor students are usually engaged in class, and regular classes they'll be those few students who are distracting the entire class. I often think that an 'easier' class is actually harder for the good student. And, truthfully, from what you described, your child's schedule is not all that demanding. My sophomores taking honors biology were usually taking AP classes as well. Unfortunately, while parents think they are doing their child a favor, they don't understand all the subtleties in this decision.
I taught honors biology. I often had students who want to take regular chemistry, even though they had been recommended for honors. They were concerned their schedule was too difficult. Those students found that being in a regular class was actually more difficult for them. So, I know this is not really helpful to you, but I'm hoping that other peas reading this might think about this when they are choosing their child's schedule.
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Post by anonrefugee on Sept 8, 2014 12:31:45 GMT
r]I am SO glad that I live in a state (Virginia) that did not adopt Common Core, because I don't have to listen to people blame everything they don't like on CC. Put the blame on the kid, or the textbook, or the counselor, or the teacher, or the superintendent, or No Child Left Behind. Every state (or almost every state...to be honest I don't know about all of them) has standardized tests that measure the kids' success on state-wide common standards. That's all CC is except it's across states. (and only in language arts and math, nothing else). I agree. Our high-ranking District will fight to the death against Common Core, and it's not used here. But at almost every meeting some parent stands up and complains about a local policy, blaming it on CC. They immediately loose credibility, and other parents will call out. If they are even slightly involved they would be aware of Districts statements and activism against CC. ETA I messed up quotes, bottom portion is mine (AR), I'm responding to what MonkLady wrote.
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Post by epeanymous on Sept 8, 2014 12:59:48 GMT
Nothing to do with common core, and, perhaps this is just my own experience, but we did not have A+ grades in high school and A grades were hard to come by, I do alumni interviews for my university and am amazed that everyone has over a 4.0 now, when my 500-person graduating class did not have a single person with a perfect 4.0.
Anyhow, I teach at a graduate level, as I have for ten years now, and, in ten years with approximately 220 students per year, I have given four A+ grades.
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amom23
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Jun 27, 2014 12:39:18 GMT
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Post by amom23 on Sept 8, 2014 13:07:13 GMT
Your beef seems to be with the district's grading policy (or maybe lack of). I can't imagine your district wouldn't have one and if so you need to read it and go from there.
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Deleted
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Apr 24, 2024 21:56:48 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Sept 8, 2014 13:13:09 GMT
I'd pull her out of the class and put her in the humanities class.
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Post by peasapie on Sept 8, 2014 13:14:16 GMT
Why do so many people have to keep saying the same thing. This really feels like a pile on to me. We get it. It's not common core. If there is nothing to add, don't keep repeating the same thing just to add two more cents to the dollar fifty. Many people who aren't educators don't quite get what CC is, but it's not necessary to pound them about it.
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Post by bearmom on Sept 8, 2014 13:14:32 GMT
I won't address the common core issue, because many others have already addressed this. But I do want to address what you have run into in trying to select an easier course for your child. One of the advantages to honors classes is that the students typically are more motivated. Therefore the teacher can teach the subject and not be so concerned about class control and class motivation. This is actually very helpful to the honors student. It's one of the reasons why teachers love to teach the honors classes. By selecting a lower level class, you have put your child in situation where the teacher will have to spend more time motivating and controlling students. A C for the minimum? In an honors class, the teacher would never even think about minimums. But in a regular class many students will be happy to get that C and will purposefully only do the minimum . And there will be those in the class that will not even do the minimum. The depth of the class will also be less because while honor students are usually engaged in class, and regular classes they'll be those few students who are distracting the entire class. I often think that an 'easier' class is actually harder for the good student. And, truthfully, from what you described, your child's schedule is not all that demanding. My sophomores taking honors biology were usually taking AP classes as well. Unfortunately, while parents think they are doing their child a favor, they don't understand all the subtleties in this decision. I taught honors biology. I often had students who want to take regular chemistry, even though they had been recommended for honors. They were concerned their schedule was too difficult. Those students found that being in a regular class was actually more difficult for them. So, I know this is not really helpful to you, but I'm hoping that other peas reading this might think about this when they are choosing their child's schedule. I agree with this. Dd was forced to choose between regular gov/Econ and dropping from honors to advanced algebra trig (schedule conflicts) and dreaded dropping to regular gov/Econ. She found her regular classes harder than the advanced/honors classes, for much of the reasons you listed. (We made this choice together based on her potential career and college choices - defiantly will be a STEM field).
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Dalai Mama
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Jun 26, 2014 0:31:31 GMT
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Post by Dalai Mama on Sept 8, 2014 13:38:59 GMT
I disagree. Maybe we use Common Core as a catchall phrase more than we should these days, to describe the changes occurring in our education system that are not making any sense. But you can no more prove that this isn't driven by a top-down standard than I can prove that it is. So take that out of the picture if you want to get hung up on words. Well, if you are going to use 'common core' as a catch-all for everything that doesn't make sense in education rather than what it actually is then, no matter what, it's going to be a bad thing.
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Post by anonrefugee on Sept 8, 2014 13:52:54 GMT
Why do so many people have to keep saying the same thing. This really feels like a pile on to me. We get it. It's not common core. If there is nothing to add, don't keep repeating the same thing just to add two more cents to the dollar fifty. Many people who aren't educators don't quite get what CC is, but it's not necessary to pound them about it. I happened to read this entire thread before responding, but at other times I've read a post and immediately responded. Haven't you? My guess is that's what's happening here. Not a pile on, just multiple RefuPeas wanting to correct a misunderstanding.
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Post by greenlegume on Sept 8, 2014 14:07:08 GMT
This IS NOT a common core issue. This is a grading policy issue. If the teacher is blaming her ridiculous grading policy on common core, then she's really stupid. You need to educate yourself on the definition of standards based learning and what common core is and isn't. Then, you need to take up the issue with administration. You have a valid complaint, but you're only going to get somewhere if you educate yourself about common core, and quit blaming it for the teacher's grading policy.
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Post by lucyg on Sept 8, 2014 14:11:32 GMT
Why do so many people have to keep saying the same thing. This really feels like a pile on to me. We get it. It's not common core. If there is nothing to add, don't keep repeating the same thing just to add two more cents to the dollar fifty. Many people who aren't educators don't quite get what CC is, but it's not necessary to pound them about it. I think the repeated reminders are important when the matter is so highly charged. Some people see Common Core as government over-reach. Blaming things on Common Core that have nothing to do with it just reinforces wrong-headed thinking. In this case, lynlam doubled down when she was corrected and said, well, it doesn't matter if this problem isn't really related to Common Core, I'm going to blame it anyway.
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Post by shanni on Sept 8, 2014 14:18:54 GMT
Why do so many people have to keep saying the same thing. This really feels like a pile on to me. We get it. It's not common core. If there is nothing to add, don't keep repeating the same thing just to add two more cents to the dollar fifty. Many people who aren't educators don't quite get what CC is, but it's not necessary to pound them about it. I happened to read this entire thread before responding, but at other times I've read a post and immediately responded. Haven't you? My guess is that's what's happening here. Not a pile on, just multiple RefuPeas wanting to correct a misunderstanding. Also, after multiple people said this isn't a common core issue, Lynlam came back and continued to insist that it is. I think everyone is just trying to convince her that her beef is really with the teacher, not with the government.
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raindancer
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 3,095
Jun 26, 2014 20:10:29 GMT
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Post by raindancer on Sept 8, 2014 14:35:59 GMT
I disagree. Maybe we use Common Core as a catchall phrase more than we should these days, to describe the changes occurring in our education system that are not making any sense. But you can no more prove that this isn't driven by a top-down standard than I can prove that it is. So take that out of the picture if you want to get hung up on words. The fact of the matter is, I resent that our students are not able to earn an A+ by doing the course work assigned and achieving a "perfect" on the tests. This is high school. Not college or graduate school. And only in history is this being applied. No other subject takes away that ability. None. The Principal, who has been at this school for two years, was completely unaware of this "new" grading system. So you are not a teacher. You do not work in education. Right? Yet a bunch of people who do work in that field (educated to be educators and working in the environment and are implementing the standards using their education as educators), tell you that your complaint has nothing to do with common core and that you are not understanding it correctly. Then you come back to disagree with them. That makes no sense. (And isn't that what your complaint is? That this makes no sense?) Common core. I don't think it means what you think it means. It's like arguing with a doctor because you read something on the internet about being a doctor. Just because you know a doctor, have been to a doctor, doesn't mean you are an expert in their field. And the same goes for teachers.
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Post by bc2ca on Sept 8, 2014 15:08:19 GMT
Nothing to do with common core, and, perhaps this is just my own experience, but we did not have A+ grades in high school and A grades were hard to come by, I do alumni interviews for my university and am amazed that everyone has over a 4.0 now, when my 500-person graduating class did not have a single person with a perfect 4.0. Anyhow, I teach at a graduate level, as I have for ten years now, and, in ten years with approximately 220 students per year, I have given four A+ grades. Our PTSA does a "4.0 lunch" each semester and has to split it over 2 days because about 25% of the student body qualify. The kids aren't any smarter, just the grading system has shifted with weighting for AP classes kind of like the way I am heavier than I was when I graduated from HS, but wear clothes 2 sizes smaller. For the record, we get scoring Rubrics for most assignments and they are very clear about having to go above and beyond to get an A.
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Post by hawkeyegal on Sept 8, 2014 15:24:59 GMT
It sounds like "double secret probation" to me. You can get a 100%, but you have to know in advance that you need to talk to the teacher and give her the secret password (i.e. I want more homework.) If you get everything right on a test there is no reason it shouldn't be 100%. I understand wanting the kids to go above and beyond, but expectations need to be communicated to the students at the beginning of the semester, not pulled out reluctantly after confused calls to the teacher and principal.
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Post by Skypea on Sept 8, 2014 21:35:22 GMT
not according to a special on it I watched last night.
what I saw was horrifying. in just doing a simple math problem. They had people 'test' it. An engineer, a teacher... they were horrified by it also. oh, it was a simple math problem for maybe a 3rd or 4th grader. maybe even younger.
btw, what happened now to 'just give 'em all a trophy' ?
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luckyexwife
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 3,067
Jun 25, 2014 21:21:08 GMT
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Post by luckyexwife on Sept 8, 2014 21:39:14 GMT
I disagree. Maybe we use Common Core as a catchall phrase more than we should these days, to describe the changes occurring in our education system that are not making any sense. But you can no more prove that this isn't driven by a top-down standard than I can prove that it is. So take that out of the picture if you want to get hung up on words. The fact of the matter is, I resent that our students are not able to earn an A+ by doing the course work assigned and achieving a "perfect" on the tests. This is high school. Not college or graduate school. And only in history is this being applied. No other subject takes away that ability. None. The Principal, who has been at this school for two years, was completely unaware of this "new" grading system. What was the principal's response? What are you going to do now?
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