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Post by Really Red on Sept 8, 2014 14:01:55 GMT
The Background: My DD17 (Sr in HS) wants to go on a mission trip to Guatemala in January. I am convinced that this would be good for her and it is as safe as anything can be there. If it were free, there would be no question. She has earned the money to pay for it ($1200), but she's going to college next year. If she didn't use this money for the trip, she'd have more money to put for college. She has a twin sister who will go to college at the same time. This DD wants to go to a state school. Still, it is a lot of money and that could and would be used for college. The Problem: She recently had an accident with the car she shares with her sister. She rear ended someone who stopped in a merge lane on the highway - 100% her fault, but we just found out the car is totalled. If it were only she, I'd not get a new car, but her twin attends a different HS in the morning and no transportation is available. Plus, both my girls help me out with my son who has no transportation to/from his school, and they do the shopping, etc. They are very helpful with the car and honestly have never ever had a problem sharing it or doing anything I ask of them (probably because I told them if they did, the car reverted to me . I have to get a new car, which hopefully will be able to be used for my son in a few years. I need about $3K to do that. Additional Facts: This DD is my "normal' 17yo. The world revolves around her, more or less. I honestly think this mission trip will open her eyes to the unbelievable extreme poverty that exists in the world. The group is accompanied the entire time by armed guards. It's good to know how people live when you are slightly annoyed that you now have to drive your mom's van when your mom gets the cool rental (and yes, this pissed me off that she said she didn't like driving my car). DD is paying me back for the deductible, half through money and the other half through chores. The chores because she doesn't seem to care about the money. DD worked over the summer about 30 hrs/week. She babysits about 3-5 hours/week now. Also, if it matters, DD does well in school and works hard. When she's sweet, she is truly the perfect child, but when things don't go her way, she is scary. She goes to her room when that happens, but she is definitely not perfect all the time and it is exhausting. The Solution: I'm hoping you can give me your thoughts if your (possibly entitled) kids went on a mission trip. If it was any other thing, the answer is an easy no, but she'd be working her butt off on this mission. I have the money to pay for the car, but I'm not overflowing with money and that's money I'd like to save for retirement. So while it sounds like it's "her" money paying for the trip, in the end, it's money that is going to the same place - college - and has to come from both of us. I want my DD to be the best person she can be, but I also need to think about the future. Update: I talked to DD tonight. I told her that I was truly on the fence. The accident put me a bit on the side for her not to go, but that my solution was that I felt she didn't realize the toll that the new car was taking (she has not seemed to be appreciative of that to me). I said it has taken me many hours of my time already, plus I now have to look for a new car (she is helping) that is safe and affordable. I have many more hours of time I have to give that I don't really have in my life, plus the cost of the new car and the rise in insurance. I said that I while I appreciated how much she gave to others, I want to see her give a little to her family. I told her that for the next 4 months, I'd like to see her give a little to her family. Once a week she needs to do something - her choice - like making dinner and sitting and having nice conversation with us (that's the hard part!), or cleaning out my car and washing it and putting gas in it once a week on a schedule (this is my favorite!), or doing a cleaning job I hate or anything that she felt would take an hour or two a week. I said if she could give of her time to us, I could approve of her time in Guatemala. I'm really trying to show her it's not all about her. Her first response wasn't favorable. She was slightly traumatized and I asked her to think about it and make the decision. So the ball is in her court. It's just funny to think that if her twin sister had wanted something, she would have jumped on this as an easy choice. To my poor other one, it's a torturous choice. I will update when she decides.
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dylniksmor
Junior Member
Posts: 56
Aug 1, 2014 14:14:18 GMT
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Post by dylniksmor on Sept 8, 2014 14:09:53 GMT
First I thought it would be a good idea to let her go on the mission trip -once in a lifetime experience and all that. - But anywhere where you have to be escorted by armed guard at all times does not sound like a place I would want my child to visit.
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Post by lucyg on Sept 8, 2014 14:18:22 GMT
First I thought it would be a good idea to let her go on the mission trip -once in a lifetime experience and all that. - But anywhere where you have to be escorted by armed guard at all times does not sound like a place I would want my child to visit. Exactly that. I wouldn't want my child going any place where armed guards were required. That said, my nieces and nephews all go on birthright trips to Israel, so what do I know?? About the money ... cars and money are replaceable. Experiences, not so much. I would encourage DD to go off to another country and see how lesser-privileged people live, especially since she has saved the money to pay for it. But I would also be concerned about safety.
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Deleted
Posts: 0
Mar 29, 2024 12:07:54 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Sept 8, 2014 14:22:04 GMT
Never say no to a young person who wants to serve and move beyond themselves...unless there is just absolutely no alternative.
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raindancer
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 3,095
Jun 26, 2014 20:10:29 GMT
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Post by raindancer on Sept 8, 2014 14:24:56 GMT
The Background: My DD17 (Sr in HS) wants to go on a mission trip to Guatemala in January. I am convinced that this would be good for her and it is as safe as anything can be there. If it were free, there would be no question. She has earned the money to pay for it ($1200), but she's going to college next year. If she didn't use this money for the trip, she'd have more money to put for college. She has a twin sister who will go to college at the same time. This DD wants to go to a state school. Still, it is a lot of money and that could and would be used for college. The Problem: She recently had an accident with the car she shares with her sister. She rear ended someone who stopped in a merge lane on the highway - 100% her fault, but we just found out the car is totalled. If it were only she, I'd not get a new car, but her twin attends a different HS in the morning and no transportation is available. Plus, both my girls help me out with my son who has no transportation to/from his school, and they do the shopping, etc. They are very helpful with the car and honestly have never ever had a problem sharing it or doing anything I ask of them (probably because I told them if they did, the car reverted to me . I have to get a new car, which hopefully will be able to be used for my son in a few years. I need about $3K to do that. Additional Facts: This DD is my "normal' 17yo. The world revolves around her, more or less. I honestly think this mission trip will open her eyes to the unbelievable extreme poverty that exists in the world. The group is accompanied the entire time by armed guards. It's good to know how people live when you are slightly annoyed that you now have to drive your mom's van when your mom gets the cool rental (and yes, this pissed me off that she said she didn't like driving my car). DD is paying me back for the deductible, half through money and the other half through chores. The chores because she doesn't seem to care about the money. DD worked over the summer about 30 hrs/week. She babysits about 3-5 hours/week now. Also, if it matters, DD does well in school and works hard. When she's sweet, she is truly the perfect child, but when things don't go her way, she is scary. She goes to her room when that happens, but she is definitely not perfect all the time and it is exhausting. The Solution: I'm hoping you can give me your thoughts if your (possibly entitled) kids went on a mission trip. If it was any other thing, the answer is an easy no, but she'd be working her butt off on this mission. I have the money to pay for the car, but I'm not overflowing with money and that's money I'd like to save for retirement. So while it sounds like it's "her" money paying for the trip, in the end, it's money that is going to the same place - college - and has to come from both of us. I want my DD to be the best person she can be, but I also need to think about the future. I would say no, put away the money and let her do a humanitarian aid project during the summer (or an internship) with her college instead. Mostly because I take real issue with teenage mission trips and the lack of any actual benefit to the people they are trying to help.
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raindancer
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 3,095
Jun 26, 2014 20:10:29 GMT
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Post by raindancer on Sept 8, 2014 14:27:49 GMT
First I thought it would be a good idea to let her go on the mission trip -once in a lifetime experience and all that. - But anywhere where you have to be escorted by armed guard at all times does not sound like a place I would want my child to visit. Exactly that. I wouldn't want my child going any place where armed guards were required. That said, my nieces and nephews all go on birthright trips to Israel, so what do I know?? About the money ... cars and money are replaceable. Experiences, not so much. I would encourage DD to go off to another country and see how lesser-privileged people live, especially since she has saved the money to pay for it. But I would also be concerned about safety. We don't have a right as a wealthy nation to just send our kids in to "help" those in less fortunate situations to show us how the "others" live as an experience. This is a huge issue for me, and one that often causes far more harm than good for the people we are claiming to "help". Especially when you throw in a religious component, and especially if that component in any way is brought forward to the people they are attempting to help.
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Deleted
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Mar 29, 2024 12:07:54 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Sept 8, 2014 14:27:54 GMT
I would let her go on the missions trip hands-down. She saved for it. This is an experience you can't get back. Both of my parents were missionaries to Haiti and New Guinea and it profoundly changed who they are. I have a friend who goes to Haiti every year. She says it's the most important thing she does each year and it has changed her life for the better as well..she had her entitled moments, for sure!
I know that some of these places are not the safest, but they do go above and beyond to protect missionaries, especially group mission trips. Let her experience more than her back yard, especially if you have the means to allow it.
I don't know if your DD is a saver, but it would've been hard for me at 17 to save $1200 for something if it weren't truly important to me. That money would've gone to clothing, music, makeup and fun.
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Post by Really Red on Sept 8, 2014 14:35:18 GMT
Yes. I agree with you in general. That is why I said no at the start. But in this very specific situation, I have done my research and it is different. It's pretty amazing what this one place has accomplished. Yes, it has a basis in religion, and I think that is sometime inevitable, but she is going with a specific purpose with a group of 6 (if she goes). One person is installing a security system, another is digging a well, etc. Normally and usually, I do agree with what you wrote. I do think this one is different. It is a pretty impressive setup that has changed the lives of many (and I am certain many not at all).
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Deleted
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Mar 29, 2024 12:07:54 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Sept 8, 2014 14:37:06 GMT
These "mission" trips do little good and actually can and do a lot more harm. I just don't think they are a good idea. They are usually not very thoughtful of the cultures, native religions and true issues at hand.
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Post by lucyg on Sept 8, 2014 14:37:46 GMT
Exactly that. I wouldn't want my child going any place where armed guards were required. That said, my nieces and nephews all go on birthright trips to Israel, so what do I know?? About the money ... cars and money are replaceable. Experiences, not so much. I would encourage DD to go off to another country and see how lesser-privileged people live, especially since she has saved the money to pay for it. But I would also be concerned about safety. We don't have a right as a wealthy nation to just send our kids in to "help" those in less fortunate situations to show us how the "others" live as an experience. This is a huge issue for me, and one that often causes far more harm than good for the people we are claiming to "help". Especially when you throw in a religious component, and especially if that component in any way is brought forward to the people they are attempting to help. I don't disagree at all. But given that mission trips seem to be a semi-permanent part of the HS/college landscape these days, I went along with the program. Would it make you feel better if I said she should do a student exchange program instead? My DD did a mission-type trip in high school with a non-religious-affiliated nonprofit program. Truthfully, from the sound of it after she got back, it was every bit as unhelpful as you say they are (and a big waste of my money, which was a lot more than $1200, even 14 years ago).
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iowgirl
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 4,089
Jun 25, 2014 22:52:46 GMT
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Post by iowgirl on Sept 8, 2014 14:49:13 GMT
Exactly!
I admire her for saving her money, with the thoughts of doing good for others - but it is also a good lesson in reality. The car wreck happened - so now the mission trip is off. That's life. Really - that is how life will be when you are an adult. Things happen and your life changes. The money should go towards college or the car.
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Post by BeckyTech on Sept 8, 2014 14:55:27 GMT
There are plenty of opportunities to see and help those that are considerably less fortunate in just about any city.
When I was living/working in the Bay area, the company I worked for "adopted" a shelter that was for entire families looking to get back on their feet. Each department in the company would make and serve dinner once a month.
Although the shelter was for families, everyone lived in large rooms with rows of bunk beds. Women and children in one area, men in another. These people had fallen on hard times and were being given a place to live, and resources to help give them a hand up. I believe the limit for living there was something like 3 months.
The living conditions were bare and stark, personal possessions were few, and you could not help but be touched by how incredibly difficult it would be to have to live there, no matter what your age was. We were given a tour after our dinner duties and it was a really hard thing to see.
You don't have to travel to another country to see extreme poverty in action and help those who are looking for a better way of life. I bet there are plenty of youthful volunteer opportunities local to you.
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Post by lily on Sept 8, 2014 14:58:16 GMT
WELL, this is JUST my OPINION...but really, encourage her to do some sort of 'mission' closer to home. I have a real problem with everyone always going to these other countries when people HERE can use the help too.
She can see just as well how less fortunate people live by volunteering at a homeless shelter, or rocking babies who are born on drugs in the hospital, or visiting the elderly who have no one who visits them.
EDIT: Becky and I were typing at the same time and she said what I meant much more eloquently.
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Deleted
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Mar 29, 2024 12:07:54 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Sept 8, 2014 15:18:25 GMT
I don't know if the mission trip your dd is doing is one that would be helpful to the Guatamalan people or not.
But I had 3 teen age daughters once, and I know if they had saved $1200 for a mission trip and I did not let them go because they totaled a car....I would still be hearing about it. I would not want to have that come up in conversations about "what mom did to me once". Would not want my grandchildren to hear that story, either.
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Deleted
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Mar 29, 2024 12:07:54 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Sept 8, 2014 15:22:26 GMT
Have to agree with Becky and others. I would suggest something closer to home...both for safety reasons and cost reasons. Short term missions (less than a whole summer at least) seem to be more about the kid going than who they are going to serve. Yes, it might open their eyes to how good they have it, but does it change their heart for others? That is the key question. Service should be consistent/ongoing and a part of their world perspective, not just a one week trip.
As for the car, our twin dd's shared one until this year (now sophomores in college). No wrecks thankfully. I would probably replace the car because I agree it can really help to have other drivers who run errands, etc. unless you can get away with all three of you sharing one car.
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Post by greenlegume on Sept 8, 2014 15:41:01 GMT
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Post by auntkelly on Sept 8, 2014 15:44:44 GMT
Has your daughter chosen a major yet? My son is an engineering major. His university offers opportunities for engineering majors to spend the summer in a third world country and apply the skills they have learned in class to help others. For example, one group, under the supervision of a professor, built a swinging footbridge over a river which made it possible for villagers living in a small remote village to have access to larger villages where medical care, markets, schools, etc. were available. Perhaps if your DD explored the options at the university she was attending, she might be persuaded to wait until she was in college to take a mission trip.
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Post by utmr on Sept 8, 2014 15:48:38 GMT
I think the trip and the car are two separate issues.
Personally I'm not a fan of mission trips for the reasons others have mentioned. There are opportunities to do humanitarian projects closer to home. I personally would not want my child on a proselytizing trip, but that's me. Helping the less fortunate can happen at home, and might be more eye opening in that people in the US live in very dire situations also, not just "over there".
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Deleted
Posts: 0
Mar 29, 2024 12:07:54 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Sept 8, 2014 15:51:00 GMT
I'd share some links about the realities of mission trips and involve her in your thought process - then make a decision together taking the accident into consideration as well as the financials. Can her father weigh in - I didn't see him mentioned.
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Post by kckckc on Sept 8, 2014 15:56:37 GMT
Exactly that. I wouldn't want my child going any place where armed guards were required. That said, my nieces and nephews all go on birthright trips to Israel, so what do I know?? About the money ... cars and money are replaceable. Experiences, not so much. I would encourage DD to go off to another country and see how lesser-privileged people live, especially since she has saved the money to pay for it. But I would also be concerned about safety. We don't have a right as a wealthy nation to just send our kids in to "help" those in less fortunate situations to show us how the "others" live as an experience. This is a huge issue for me, and one that often causes far more harm than good for the people we are claiming to "help". Especially when you throw in a religious component, and especially if that component in any way is brought forward to the people they are attempting to help. I totally agree with Raindancer on this one. I would suggest you read Toxic Charity: How Churches and Charities Hurt Those They Help by Robert D. Lupton.
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Post by monklady123 on Sept 8, 2014 15:57:25 GMT
First I thought it would be a good idea to let her go on the mission trip -once in a lifetime experience and all that. - But anywhere where you have to be escorted by armed guard at all times does not sound like a place I would want my child to visit. Exactly that. I wouldn't want my child going any place where armed guards were required. That said, my nieces and nephews all go on birthright trips to Israel, so what do I know?? About the money ... cars and money are replaceable. Experiences, not so much. I would encourage DD to go off to another country and see how lesser-privileged people live, especially since she has saved the money to pay for it. But I would also be concerned about safety. Well...when the son of a friend of mine went on his birthright trip to Israel they were all escorted by armed guards. My friend said that's normal. When I went to Israel (only a few months before this kid went) we went everywhere with no problems. We did have a guide on the bus but I never saw any indication she was armed. So maybe it's the same with youth groups who go to Latin American countries? I don't know much about the political situations in some of those countries so I'm just speculating.
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Post by monklady123 on Sept 8, 2014 16:05:41 GMT
Oh, and I agree with those who don't like "mission trips". I would encourage kids to go on cultural exchange trips, or sister-city exchanges, or trips like that. A neighbor just went on one this summer to Costa Rica. She's in 10th grade now. She came back with the real understanding that people use other languages to communicate. lol. I know that sounds a bit simplistic, but it was an eye-opener for her to be in a situation where everyone was speaking Spanish while doing ordinary things. And that even small children can speak Spanish. A group of kids from Costa Rica will be coming here in January as part of this exchange. -- These are the kind of trips that I think can be very educational and beneficial for both groups. A funny story from a French exchange that our high school did. One of my dd's friends came back from her exchange to France and said "you know what? French people really do use the subjunctive!" lol. Any of you who have taken French know what a bear that subjunctive tense is since we use it so rarely in English. lol Anyway, sorry, just my language hijack.
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LeaP
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 3,939
Location: Los Angeles, CA where 405 meets 101
Jun 26, 2014 23:17:22 GMT
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Post by LeaP on Sept 8, 2014 16:22:03 GMT
There are plenty of opportunities to see and help those that are considerably less fortunate in just about any city. When I was living/working in the Bay area, the company I worked for "adopted" a shelter that was for entire families looking to get back on their feet. Each department in the company would make and serve dinner once a month. Although the shelter was for families, everyone lived in large rooms with rows of bunk beds. Women and children in one area, men in another. These people had fallen on hard times and were being given a place to live, and resources to help give them a hand up. I believe the limit for living there was something like 3 months. The living conditions were bare and stark, personal possessions were few, and you could not help but be touched by how incredibly difficult it would be to have to live there, no matter what your age was. We were given a tour after our dinner duties and it was a really hard thing to see. You don't have to travel to another country to see extreme poverty in action and help those who are looking for a better way of life. I bet there are plenty of youthful volunteer opportunities local to you. There was a lot of need just blocks from where I lived in Los Angeles. While a part of me would want to send her to more exciting Guatemala, I have read several studies that condemn mission trips and say that just sending the money would be more helpful. I think finding something local would the best compromise.
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Post by lindywholoveskids on Sept 8, 2014 16:30:55 GMT
Maybe once she gets out of college she can join the Peace Corps. it was an amazing experience for me. I am still close to my Peace Corps friends, but unfortunately I lost contact with some Costa Rican friends in the community where we worked.
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Post by Really Red on Sept 8, 2014 16:41:16 GMT
Sorry for all of you who didn't see that I do agree about the mission trip issues. I wrote that in one of my responses. That was why originally I said no. I read the links, but knew much of that information already. I did my research on this specific charity. There is no prosthelytizing. She is going as a part of a group who has been several times before and has specific jobs (no painting!). Also, this is a very, very remote location in an awful area. Group don't go here for exotic. The work that is done at this charity is very impressive. I know it's hard to take my word for it, but it appears this is the exception that may prove the rule. Also, I did think about the stuff about closer to home. Our own church does mission work here in Appalachia. The poverty level is atrocious; but there are many, many programs to help the American poor and none exist in Guatemala, where the government is very corrupt. Finally, my first offer was just to send the money and the people there said they are desperate for help. This place has an orphanage and a hospital and even transient help is important to them. Unfortunately the car and the trip really aren't separate issues when their common issue is money
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Post by monklady123 on Sept 8, 2014 16:42:36 GMT
Maybe once she gets out of college she can join the Peace Corps. it was an amazing experience for me. I am still close to my Peace Corps friends, but unfortunately I lost contact with some Costa Rican friends in the community where we worked. Yay for the Peace Corps. I was in Burkina Faso, West Africa for three years.
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Post by moveablefeast on Sept 8, 2014 16:50:17 GMT
I can't address the other issues, but I can say that absolutely nothing has changed my life like international travel and mission work. I walked around with a great big chip on my shoulder about things until I went to Venezuela the first time. And then doing mission in post Katrina Louisiana changed my whole life.
I did have to leave the country to understand real poverty. I grew up in poverty in central Appalachia - but not like in the slums outside Caracas. Nothing in te US is like that. It took seeing that to change my understanding.
I think people who think you can see just as bad a condition in LA don't actually know what a real slum looks like. A slum is a place where people make houses out of scraps of metal and cardboard from the dump and eliminate in open latrines, not a housing project with walls, doors, and working toilets. That is not at all to say that local/domestic charity work is not important because they have toilets - it is to say that there is a kind of poverty that exists in those horrible slums that I did not understand until I saw a real slum - and seeing that was a major catalyst to change in my life that I did not get growing up, even growing up in poverty. It taught me how to properly see my own station in life in a global context.
I can still name the people whose houses we worked on in Louisiana and I was there half the time for 18 straight months. My point is that it made a real impression. So philosophically speaking I am in favor of short term mission. FWIW, the six teams that I worked with in Louisiana contributed to the completion of repairs on literally dozens of houses and prevented others from being torn down - both maximizing the impact of any insurance/RoadHome money that the homeowners received and entitling them to materials grants which were contingent on the provision of a certain number of man-hours of labor. I understand that many well-meaning charities do bad work and actually cause harm to the people they went to help in the first place; however, I can tell you from first hand experience that an established, well organized and well visioned organization that actually knows what the need is on the ground (as opposed to what people outside think the need is) can make a lasting difference when it is in a healthy partnership with a community.
As long as we aren't talking about a play trip with buddies as opposed to a serious work trip, I would say that I would take the chance and write the check.
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Deleted
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Mar 29, 2024 12:07:54 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Sept 8, 2014 17:10:29 GMT
Save the money for college. Most colleges have. mandatory volunteer requirement for graduation, And volunteer trips during breaks.
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Post by anonrefugee on Sept 8, 2014 17:13:06 GMT
I'll be odd Pea out, if you say you've researched this group I believe you and want to address the question you asked.
Your DD sounds overall responsible and had an accident. I know more than one kid that had a fender bender- or total wreck-, and never had the responsibility of a job, or saving money. They couldn't have paid it off if they had too.
Since she's generally a good kid I wouldn't want to keep her from a life altering experience she's been planning. Sure, paying for car would be another kind of life lesson, but not sure it's equitable to the trip since her driving benefits the family too.
Mothering teens isn't black and white and some situations don't fit our our previous "family rules" or expectations. Good luck!!
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Post by Really Red on Sept 8, 2014 17:15:30 GMT
I am happy to hear this. To me, if this gets rid of my DD's entitledness, it is a small amount to pay. I know she will be helping people because I have heard from the missionaries who live there and many other people. Since this charity isn't cool and exotic, they really get the people who care. All the people going with my DD have been before at least once, and many numerous times. And the 3 kids going are not my DD's play buddies.
I am also happy to hear from someone who has BTDT. Most of the other posts are people like me, who have read the bad stuff. I want to hear from people like you. Thank you!
I would LOVE for her to join the Peace Corps after college. Maybe this is the path to start her on that?
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