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Post by mustlovecats on Apr 21, 2018 14:58:57 GMT
I agree. This is often one of the things that teachers in my state include as one of their reasons for striking. Besides pay reductions and lack of increasing benefits, benefits can be reduced or eliminated as well. If you're promised XYZ benefits when you start working for a district, then 3 years down the line the district decides that those benefits are becoming cost-prohibitive and they want to stop giving them or give them in lesser amounts, you just started being compensated less, even if your pay stayed the same. That can be in any business. When I started at the City, health insurance was 100% paid for the family. After about three years, we started having to pay. That was an effective reduction in salary. I still made the decision to stay there. If they don't like the reduction, they are free to look for other employment. Is this good for our kids?
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Post by Merge on Apr 21, 2018 15:06:37 GMT
And where is the money going to come from? Are you willing to give up fixing roads, law enforcement, parks, welfare, etc? Do you want to pay 70% of your income in taxes (and that is just a figure I made up)? To give them what the teachers in OK are demanding, you have to get the money from somewhere! I've been on the receiving end of too many cuts in the City while the special interest departments got all the money. I won't argue with you on it but I think the "walkout"/strike was very selfish on their part. I don't think somebody who works just part of a year (and with a lot of time off during that time - two weeks at Christmas, spring break, a week at Thanksgiving, fall break, etc.) should make more than I make working the full year! I'm entitled to my opinion and that's all I'll say on the subject since I know I have an unpopular opinion. I know many people think like this, but it's awful and depressing to read it. Calling teachers "very selfish" makes me feel nauseous. You, dear lady, have NO IDEA what being a teacher in a public school these days is like. Glad to know we are so appreciated. I'm really trying not to get offended when I read things like this. I don't know sharon, but I have a lot of relatives who feel like she does. They live in mostly rural areas and suffer from low wages and lack of jobs, and feel like they shouldn't need to pay one more dime in taxes than they already do. So I'm imagining that perspective - and of course I may be wrong. I get that perspective, because I frequently feel like I shouldn't have to pay more at the gas pump to enrich big oil, or more interest on my mortgage to enrich the people who own the bank. But, if we want to live in a free market economy - as conservatives say they do - we have to acknowledge that everyone has their price. If teachers are willing to continue to work in poor conditions with low wages, then that's what the market will bear, and we have no reason to change. When teachers have had enough and aren't willing to do that any more, then the market won't bear it, and the people paying for public education (all of us) are going to have to figure out how to fund public schools in a way that keeps good teachers inside of them. That's reality.
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SabrinaP
Pearl Clutcher
Busy Teacher Pea
Posts: 4,355
Location: Dallas Texas
Jun 26, 2014 12:16:22 GMT
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Post by SabrinaP on Apr 21, 2018 15:36:12 GMT
I know many people think like this, but it's awful and depressing to read it. Calling teachers "very selfish" makes me feel nauseous. You, dear lady, have NO IDEA what being a teacher in a public school these days is like. Glad to know we are so appreciated. I'm really trying not to get offended when I read things like this. I don't know sharon, but I have a lot of relatives who feel like she does. They live in mostly rural areas and suffer from low wages and lack of jobs, and feel like they shouldn't need to pay one more dime in taxes than they already do. So I'm imagining that perspective - and of course I may be wrong. I get that perspective, because I frequently feel like I shouldn't have to pay more at the gas pump to enrich big oil, or more interest on my mortgage to enrich the people who own the bank. But, if we want to live in a free market economy - as conservatives say they do - we have to acknowledge that everyone has their price. If teachers are willing to continue to work in poor conditions with low wages, then that's what the market will bear, and we have no reason to change. When teachers have had enough and aren't willing to do that any more, then the market won't bear it, and the people paying for public education (all of us) are going to have to figure out how to fund public schools in a way that keeps good teachers inside of them. That's reality. I think people get lost in what is being fought for. Yes, some of it is for Teacher raises but often it is for funding. Oklahoma was given a one year $6,000 raise and 50 million increase in funding. They were asking for $10,000 over the next 3 years and 200 million in funding. They continued the walkout because of the funding. Teachers are so far from selfish it’s ridiculous to say that. I see teachers everyday using their own money to fund education. Every year we are given a certain amount of paper. I just used my last ream on Friday. Guess who will be going to the store to buy more paper to get through the last 5 weeks of school? It’s test prep time and I teach 6th grade math. I cannot go without paper. I spend money during the year on pencils, glue, scissors, notebooks, not to mention supplies for specific lessons. I do these things because I care about each one of my kids. Some have parents that purchase these things and make sure their child always have them and some don’t, so teachers pick up that slack. A pay raise is always nice, but funding is so important. I see a future where fewer and fewer becone teachers. I know I personally will be discouraging my children from teaching and DH and I both teach.
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AnotherPea
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 2,968
Jan 4, 2015 1:47:52 GMT
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Post by AnotherPea on Apr 21, 2018 15:36:17 GMT
Exactly, Merge. Part of the problem is the nature of the profession. Profession, not job. Because truly dedicated teachers, for generations, took crap from the public, “for the kids”, people started to believe they deserved to be treated like crap.
(And these same people are the first to bitch when their special snowflakes aren’t treated exactly as their ignorant parents believe they should be)
When the teachers finally stand up and say ENOUGH, these entitled people can’t understand why we don’t just want to be crapped on more.
It’s like when people are pissed that the dog they’ve been beating for years finally growls and snaps when someone raises his hand.
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katybee
Drama Llama
Posts: 5,378
Jun 25, 2014 23:25:39 GMT
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Post by katybee on Apr 21, 2018 15:53:40 GMT
I’m guessing Sharon must be older. I’ve read a lot of similar comments from older people on this topic lately and really get the feeling they don’t understand education today. We are not babysitters. We do not open up a pre-planned curriculum, read it word for word and have our kids sit quietly and finish their work while we drink our coffee. I spend HOURS analyzing the standards set forth by my state, assessing my kids, reading research, using that research and best practices to develop lessons and activities that will help my kids learn those standards, develop 21st century skills and become decent human beings. I never sit down. I’m am engaging with students every minute they are with me—asking questions, checking for understanding, clearing up misconceptions. I have kids in my class reading on a 3rd grade level and kids that are just now learning to read words like cat and dog. And I teach them all. I collect and analyze mountains of data, I create intervention plans, I create enrichment plans, I create behavior plans. I incorporate technology into all of my lessons. I write a blog, create spreadsheets, create videos and slideshows. I am a level 2 Google Certified Educator. I make home visits to the student who misses school 2 days per week to make sure everything is OK. I give up my lunch—those 25 magical minutes a day where I can decompress—to eat with a kid who is having a hard time. I work 50-60 hours per week during the school year. I have my masters degree and HUNDREDS and HUNDREDS of professional development hours. But I don’t want you to feel sorry for me. I don’t feel sorry for myself. I love my job (most days) and I’M GOOD AT IT. I am an educated, experienced PROFESSIONAL. That’s right— a PROFESSIONAL. And I deserve to be compensated accordingly. And seriously? What professional job do you have that pays less than a teacher? I have been teaching for 16 years and I make $51,000–just barely over the national average for all workers.
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katybee
Drama Llama
Posts: 5,378
Jun 25, 2014 23:25:39 GMT
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Post by katybee on Apr 21, 2018 16:04:58 GMT
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Post by Clair on Apr 21, 2018 17:12:37 GMT
In general - I don’t think teachers should strike but unfortunately, there seems to be no other option.
The teaching profession in general is paid very poorly. Personally, I think salaries should be on par with police and Fire. Around here - fair salary - roughly 75,000 - 200,000. Critical to the community - teachers require education vs police and fire face danger. All public service jobs.
I think it’s perspective though - if you are a parent or citizen making 50,00 or 500,000 a year - that salary is viewed very differently. I also think there needs to be a different pay structure - not steps and not tied to test scores. Everyone knows who the most effective teachers are - ask any parent or other teachers. Effective teachers cannot be determined by test scores.
Around here - some people are up in arms because a bond passed to install air conditioners in schools. Seems like many think kids and teachers should just tough it out like they did. I think they should be installed to make a more comfortable learning/work environment. Living in costal so cal we dont need air much but if the classrooms get hot - it’s miserable.
Off topic - I think there should be public service campaigns to foster parents/teachers/schools/neighborhoods bonding together for the advancement of our kids. My kids went public school and I never had any issues with teachers - I may have rolled my eyes a few times. Never had the issues parents seem to have now. My kids are only early 20s.
Im not a teacher but I believe strongly in public education.
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Post by monklady123 on Apr 21, 2018 17:35:05 GMT
Yes, teachers are free to look for other employment if they want. But, wouldn't it be better to pay them what they're worth from the beginning? Seriously...there's already a teacher shortage in some districts. They have a very difficult job. And they're educating our children! And so often it's the young ones who leave...they teach for a few years out of college then they move to a private school or they get married and are free to quit while they look for another job since their spouse's job carries insurance, etc. We need to encourage and KEEP teachers, not just say "oh yeah, they can go somewhere else". And where is the money going to come from? Are you willing to give up fixing roads, law enforcement, parks, welfare, etc? Do you want to pay 70% of your income in taxes (and that is just a figure I made up)? To give them what the teachers in OK are demanding, you have to get the money from somewhere! I've been on the receiving end of too many cuts in the City while the special interest departments got all the money. I won't argue with you on it but I think the "walkout"/strike was very selfish on their part. I don't think somebody who works just part of a year (and with a lot of time off during that time - two weeks at Christmas, spring break, a week at Thanksgiving, fall break, etc.) should make more than I make working the full year! I'm entitled to my opinion and that's all I'll say on the subject since I know I have an unpopular opinion. Wow. -- I had a lot to say in response but katybee said everything I would have in her post on the next page. You sound a bit like one of my 1st graders (I'm a substitute, so all grades of elementary are "mine") -- if someone else has something that I don't have then it's not fair! Why shouldn't teachers have things you don't have work-wise? You probably have a lot of things at your work that others don't have. Should every single person be paid equally and have exactly the same benefits? I don't think so. [although some benefits should be universal, like health care, but that's another thread...] And about all that time that teachers get off... wow. The teachers I know often spend their summers working at another job. Some of them do so because they need that extra money to buy things for their classrooms since what they're given doesn't begin to cover what they need. That includes supplies for kids whose parents can't afford to buy them. My school tries to help in that area, and the PTA donates a lot...but still there are a lot of things that are still needed. Also, some of their summer is spent in mandatory training. This county requires a certain number of continuing ed during a certain time period (I want to say three years, but I'm not 100% sure). The county also requires training on new programs/techniques for teaching writing, reading, and math. This year there was a new writing program and teachers had to go to that after school. And then of course there's that workday where they get off work by 3:00-ish. On days where they don't have mandatory after-school training of course. Oh wait... there are after-school clubs to supervise (clubs that they volunteered for...at my elementary school we have Homework Club (mostly for kids from homes that don't support homework, often non-English speaking), and Girls on the Run, and Knitting Club (that one is actually before school), and Recycling Rangers, and Tech Tigers (technology club...these are the kids who do all the filming of speeches and skits and whatever)... just off the top of my head. And THEN when they're all done with that they have to prepare lessons for language arts (reading and writing), math, social studies, and science. And all of that has to be done with different students in mind -- different levels, different language abilities, etc. Even if a teacher can leave at 3:00 on the dot (oh wait, first they have to do bus duty, and someone has to supervise the kids who are riding the bus that's running late because of traffic)..okay, after the last bus finally arrives THEN they can go home. And at home they'll spend a lot of time preparing lessons, and grading papers, and emailing parents, and worrying about the little boy who looks sad a lot, and the little girl who said her uncle hit her (the teacher makes notes of that and prepares the report form for the counselor), and researching the math standards for teaching 2nd grade and then looking up new ways to teach that standard because lately it's been feeling a bit "stale", oh and then making up some new flash cards because the "slush fund" is depleted, then getting ready for the IEP meeting the next day (collecting the kid's schoolwork, checking the kid's file, preparing mentally for the antagonistic parent who doesn't seem to want to help his kid)... Yep, it's a soft life these teachers have.
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ComplicatedLady
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 3,037
Location: Valley of the Sun
Jul 26, 2014 21:02:07 GMT
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Post by ComplicatedLady on Apr 21, 2018 17:48:35 GMT
I’m in Arizona. My husband and I both work full time outside of the home. Neither of us work in the education field. I fully support the walk out that may occur next week.
I appreciate the warning and luckily I have some time to figure out childcare for those days if needed. I’m also lucky in that I can work from home if needed and that my boss has a child in the same school and grade as mine.
Teachers are not selfish. Far from it. This is about more than a personal pay raise. Teachers have been working for crap salaries for years. This would’ve happened years ago if it were about salaries. This is about funding and legislation. As a society, we cannot let our teachers burn out or require them to fund their own classrooms from minimal salaries. As I parent, I’m supportive, but even if I didn’t have a child in a public school, I would support teachers because of everything they do for children and for society.
These are some of the most dedicated and hard working people. Teachers absolutely need our support.
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azredhead
Drama Llama
Posts: 5,755
Jun 25, 2014 22:49:18 GMT
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Post by azredhead on Apr 21, 2018 18:14:19 GMT
I’m in Arizona. My husband and I both work full time outside of the home. Neither of us work in the education field. I fully support the walk out that may occur next week. I appreciate the warning and luckily I have some time to figure out childcare for those days if needed. I’m also lucky in that I can work from home if needed and that my boss has a child in the same school and grade as mine. Teachers are not selfish. Far from it. This is about more than a personal pay raise. Teachers have been working for crap salaries for years. This would’ve happened years ago if it were about salaries. This is about funding and legislation. As a society, we cannot let our teachers burn out or require them to fund their own classrooms from minimal salaries. As I parent, I’m supportive, but even if I didn’t have a child in a public school, I would support teachers because of everything they do for children and for society. These are some of the most dedicated and hard working people. Teachers absolutely need our support. I agree at first I don't like the idea of the walk out only if the demands are crazy and what not. And the disruptrion right at the end of the year.. graduation etc.. But Dh's sister is a teacher, she also runs the after school programs. She has never been able to live on her own though $$ wise. Dh thought about being a teacher before he went the legal route, he still wants to and has thought about it but due to pay it would be part time. He also understands how hard it is to get a raise or higher salary in the education and even goverment jobs. They don't come easy if it at all. I hope the funds go where they are supposed to. I can't imagine what it's like to be a teacher these days and how different it is just from when we were school. They say it has it rewards and we've seen that from Pea teachers. I have the most uprespect for them. You get some crazy stuff.. but I'm sure it's like that anywhere. I dont have kids but Dh is still in school as well. So we have a strong belief in the public school system. I hope the walk out helps some and as I mentioned just done the right way and given to the teachers. The only thing I will add. Is I was amazed at some of the stuff that teachers pay for out of their own pockets for their class rooms. We helped Dh's sister set up her rooms before. I was shocked at what they had to pay for.
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Post by freecharlie on Apr 21, 2018 18:17:20 GMT
Let's not pile on the one pea. While we may not believe we are selfish, there are a number of people that do believe that. If we shit down their opinions by getting offended, there is no longer an opportunity to try to have them see outside.
For many, all they see is having to pay for daycare or having to take the day off and stay home with their kids.
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Post by freecharlie on Apr 21, 2018 18:20:11 GMT
I’m in Arizona. My husband and I both work full time outside of the home. Neither of us work in the education field. I fully support the walk out that may occur next week. I appreciate the warning and luckily I have some time to figure out childcare for those days if needed. I’m also lucky in that I can work from home if needed and that my boss has a child in the same school and grade as mine. Teachers are not selfish. Far from it. This is about more than a personal pay raise. Teachers have been working for crap salaries for years. This would’ve happened years ago if it were about salaries. This is about funding and legislation. As a society, we cannot let our teachers burn out or require them to fund their own classrooms from minimal salaries. As I parent, I’m supportive, but even if I didn’t have a child in a public school, I would support teachers because of everything they do for children and for society. These are some of the most dedicated and hard working people. Teachers absolutely need our support. I agree at first I don't like the idea of the walk out only if the demands are crazy and what not. And the disruptrion right at the end of the year.. graduation etc.. But Dh's sister is a teacher, she also runs the after school programs. She has never been able to live on her own though $$ wise. Dh thought about being a teacher before he went the legal route, he still wants to and has thought about it but due to pay it would be part time. He also understands how hard it is to get a raise or higher salary in the education and even goverment jobs. They don't come easy if it at all. I hope the funds go where they are supposed to. I can't imagine what it's like to be a teacher these days and how different it is just from when we were school. They say it has it rewards and we've seen that from Pea teachers. I have the most uprespect for them. You get some crazy stuff.. but I'm sure it's like that anywhere. I dont have kids but Dh is still in school as well. So we have a strong belief in the public school system. I hope the walk out helps some and as I mentioned just done the right way and given to the teachers. The only thing I will add. Is I was amazed at some of the stuff that teachers pay for out of their own pockets for their class rooms. We helped Dh's sister set up her rooms before. I was shocked at what they had to pay for. This may sound contrary to everything else I have said, but I would not support something right now that would affect the seniors graduation. They worked damn hard for that and I will not be the one who messes it up. Hopefully the one day does what we need in Colorado.
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azredhead
Drama Llama
Posts: 5,755
Jun 25, 2014 22:49:18 GMT
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Post by azredhead on Apr 21, 2018 18:29:45 GMT
I agree at first I don't like the idea of the walk out only if the demands are crazy and what not. And the disruptrion right at the end of the year.. graduation etc.. But Dh's sister is a teacher, she also runs the after school programs. She has never been able to live on her own though $$ wise. Dh thought about being a teacher before he went the legal route, he still wants to and has thought about it but due to pay it would be part time. He also understands how hard it is to get a raise or higher salary in the education and even goverment jobs. They don't come easy if it at all. I hope the funds go where they are supposed to. I can't imagine what it's like to be a teacher these days and how different it is just from when we were school. They say it has it rewards and we've seen that from Pea teachers. I have the most uprespect for them. You get some crazy stuff.. but I'm sure it's like that anywhere. I dont have kids but Dh is still in school as well. So we have a strong belief in the public school system. I hope the walk out helps some and as I mentioned just done the right way and given to the teachers. The only thing I will add. Is I was amazed at some of the stuff that teachers pay for out of their own pockets for their class rooms. We helped Dh's sister set up her rooms before. I was shocked at what they had to pay for. This may sound contrary to everything else I have said, but I would not support something right now that would affect the seniors graduation. They worked damn hard for that and I will not be the one who messes it up. Hopefully the one day does what we need in Colorado. Yea my neices are worried about it.. but some districts are saying they will mail the dipolomas. I think I'd be kinda not happy about that. They said they would work around it. They are trying to at least annouce the days so parents and the kids can prepare but I hope it doesn't affect their graduation!
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Post by pattyraindrops on Apr 21, 2018 20:41:04 GMT
This may sound contrary to everything else I have said, but I would not support something right now that would affect the seniors graduation. They worked damn hard for that and I will not be the one who messes it up. Hopefully the one day does what we need in Colorado. Yea my neices are worried about it.. but some districts are saying they will mail the dipolomas. I think I'd be kinda not happy about that. They said they would work around it. They are trying to at least annouce the days so parents and the kids can prepare but I hope it doesn't affect their graduation! Our district just announced graduation as usual, but students may need to come back the next day etc. if they don't have the required days to receive their diploma.
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Post by Sharon on Apr 22, 2018 1:12:36 GMT
And where is the money going to come from? Are you willing to give up fixing roads, law enforcement, parks, welfare, etc? Do you want to pay 70% of your income in taxes (and that is just a figure I made up)? To give them what the teachers in OK are demanding, you have to get the money from somewhere! I've been on the receiving end of too many cuts in the City while the special interest departments got all the money. I won't argue with you on it but I think the "walkout"/strike was very selfish on their part. I don't think somebody who works just part of a year (and with a lot of time off during that time - two weeks at Christmas, spring break, a week at Thanksgiving, fall break, etc.) should make more than I make working the full year! I'm entitled to my opinion and that's all I'll say on the subject since I know I have an unpopular opinion. Thank you for sharing your POV, to which you are indeed entitled. I hope you'll continue in the discussion, as I'm always curious about this particular opinion, which I hear a lot. If you're willing, I have some questions for you. Does your job require a degree? An advanced degree? Ongoing training? Long hours? Planning and development on weekends and during breaks? Does it affect the future of our state and country? From my point of view, I'm always puzzled by the argument that "teachers shouldn't make more than me." I guess it depends on what you do. I guess I could choose to be offended that a brain surgeon makes more than me, but I recognize that the years (decades) of expensive training required, the long hours they work, and the life and death nature of their business all suggest that a higher salary is appropriate. I do think I should make more than someone in a job that doesn't require a degree or any specialized training, or that is the kind of job where you leave at 5 each day and don't think about it again until 8 the next morning. I think I should have a salary roughly equivalent to other professionals with my level of training and experience and the hours put in. I get that some people think that teachers get salaries out of the generosity of taxpayers, and kind of feel we should be grateful to get anything at all. From my perspective, a lot of people make a lot more than me, including my husband, who works in oil and gas, only works 9 days out of every 10, has a generous vacation package, and can take a long lunch or leave early pretty much whenever he wants. He can work from home most days. He can even use the bathroom whenever he wants, which sounds pretty awesome to me! He has the same level of education that I do. And you and I pay his salary every time we go to the gas pump, use natural gas in our homes, or use electricity generated by fossil fuels. If he and his co-workers were all willing to take a big pay cut, back to, say, what a teacher makes, we could have really cheap gas and power! So I'm not convinced that the O&G folks are more worthy of what we pay them than teachers are, just because their salaries come from sales and not taxes. In my opinion, our system takes advantage of the fact that teachers are mostly women, either very young women or women like me with spouses who earn more, and we're mostly "true believers" who are willing to suffer low pay and long hours for the sake of doing a job that we love and that we feel is important. There is, however, a breaking point for most, and what we're seeing is that many teachers have reached the breaking point. People still need to eat and pay their mortgage. It's easy to say, oh, they can just go find another job, but my question remains: what happens to our schools when too many of us do that? As to where the money should come from? In Texas, our revenue system is incredibly complicated and inefficient. We could bring in more, less painfully, by adjusting some things. I think this article lays it out pretty well.I'll answer this since it has nothing to do with teachers. Yes, I have a degree. Yes, I'm required to get 40 hours of CPE per year (which I have to pay for). I also have to pay for my license and professional organizations. I'm a CPA if that makes any difference. So, yes, I can have long hours with no additional pay. I also cannot take time off during closing and year end. I only had to have a four year degree. The CPA covered anything else I needed. Now, an accounting degree is a five year program. Since I worked for a City, I guess you could say it affected the future of the City. I'm also from OK. I have teachers in the family.
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Post by Merge on Apr 22, 2018 1:19:42 GMT
Thank you for sharing your POV, to which you are indeed entitled. I hope you'll continue in the discussion, as I'm always curious about this particular opinion, which I hear a lot. If you're willing, I have some questions for you. Does your job require a degree? An advanced degree? Ongoing training? Long hours? Planning and development on weekends and during breaks? Does it affect the future of our state and country? From my point of view, I'm always puzzled by the argument that "teachers shouldn't make more than me." I guess it depends on what you do. I guess I could choose to be offended that a brain surgeon makes more than me, but I recognize that the years (decades) of expensive training required, the long hours they work, and the life and death nature of their business all suggest that a higher salary is appropriate. I do think I should make more than someone in a job that doesn't require a degree or any specialized training, or that is the kind of job where you leave at 5 each day and don't think about it again until 8 the next morning. I think I should have a salary roughly equivalent to other professionals with my level of training and experience and the hours put in. I get that some people think that teachers get salaries out of the generosity of taxpayers, and kind of feel we should be grateful to get anything at all. From my perspective, a lot of people make a lot more than me, including my husband, who works in oil and gas, only works 9 days out of every 10, has a generous vacation package, and can take a long lunch or leave early pretty much whenever he wants. He can work from home most days. He can even use the bathroom whenever he wants, which sounds pretty awesome to me! He has the same level of education that I do. And you and I pay his salary every time we go to the gas pump, use natural gas in our homes, or use electricity generated by fossil fuels. If he and his co-workers were all willing to take a big pay cut, back to, say, what a teacher makes, we could have really cheap gas and power! So I'm not convinced that the O&G folks are more worthy of what we pay them than teachers are, just because their salaries come from sales and not taxes. In my opinion, our system takes advantage of the fact that teachers are mostly women, either very young women or women like me with spouses who earn more, and we're mostly "true believers" who are willing to suffer low pay and long hours for the sake of doing a job that we love and that we feel is important. There is, however, a breaking point for most, and what we're seeing is that many teachers have reached the breaking point. People still need to eat and pay their mortgage. It's easy to say, oh, they can just go find another job, but my question remains: what happens to our schools when too many of us do that? As to where the money should come from? In Texas, our revenue system is incredibly complicated and inefficient. We could bring in more, less painfully, by adjusting some things. I think this article lays it out pretty well.I'll answer this since it has nothing to do with teachers. Yes, I have a degree. Yes, I'm required to get 40 hours of CPE per year (which I have to pay for). I also have to pay for my license and professional organizations. I'm a CPA if that makes any difference. So, yes, I can have long hours with no additional pay. I also cannot take time off during closing and year end. I only had to have a four year degree. The CPA covered anything else I needed. Now, an accounting degree is a five year program. Since I worked for a City, I guess you could say it affected the future of the City. I'm also from OK. I have teachers in the family. Thank you so much for sharing your perspective. If you don't mind, I have another couple of questions: are you actually making less than the average Texas teacher makes (we'll say $50K for argument)? And if so, why haven't you just chosen another profession or found another job as you suggest they do? I have CPAs in my family who make 2-3x what I do as a teacher.
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Post by freecharlie on Apr 22, 2018 1:20:29 GMT
[/quote]I'll answer this since it has nothing to do with teachers. Yes, I have a degree. Yes, I'm required to get 40 hours of CPE per year (which I have to pay for). I also have to pay for my license and professional organizations. I'm a CPA if that makes any difference. So, yes, I can have long hours with no additional pay. I also cannot take time off during closing and year end. I only had to have a four year degree. The CPA covered anything else I needed. Now, an accounting degree is a five year program. Since I worked for a City, I guess you could say it affected the future of the City. I'm also from OK. I have teachers in the family.[/quote] completely off topic, but how does a 5 year degree work? Did they just add more classes? Can you specialize in a specific area?
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Post by Sharon on Apr 22, 2018 1:55:10 GMT
I'll answer this since it has nothing to do with teachers. Yes, I have a degree. Yes, I'm required to get 40 hours of CPE per year (which I have to pay for). I also have to pay for my license and professional organizations. I'm a CPA if that makes any difference. So, yes, I can have long hours with no additional pay. I also cannot take time off during closing and year end. I only had to have a four year degree. The CPA covered anything else I needed. Now, an accounting degree is a five year program. Since I worked for a City, I guess you could say it affected the future of the City. I'm also from OK. I have teachers in the family. Thank you so much for sharing your perspective. If you don't mind, I have another couple of questions: are you actually making less than the average Texas teacher makes (we'll say $50K for argument)? And if so, why haven't you just chosen another profession or found another job as you suggest they do? I have CPAs in my family who make 2-3x what I do as a teacher. Yes, I'm making less than $50 per year. I'm not the one complaining about my salary though. I also haven't had a raise in several years. I know I could make more but I happen to like my job and the people I work with. As I said, if you're unhappy with your job, find another one. I happen to think it is wrong to strike.
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sassyangel
Drama Llama
Posts: 7,456
Jun 26, 2014 23:58:32 GMT
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Post by sassyangel on Apr 22, 2018 2:09:20 GMT
Yes, teachers are free to look for other employment if they want. But, wouldn't it be better to pay them what they're worth from the beginning? Seriously...there's already a teacher shortage in some districts. They have a very difficult job. And they're educating our children! And so often it's the young ones who leave...they teach for a few years out of college then they move to a private school or they get married and are free to quit while they look for another job since their spouse's job carries insurance, etc. We need to encourage and KEEP teachers, not just say "oh yeah, they can go somewhere else". And where is the money going to come from? Are you willing to give up fixing roads, law enforcement, parks, welfare, etc? Do you want to pay 70% of your income in taxes (and that is just a figure I made up)? To give them what the teachers in OK are demanding, you have to get the money from somewhere! I've been on the receiving end of too many cuts in the City while the special interest departments got all the money. I won't argue with you on it but I think the "walkout"/strike was very selfish on their part. I don't think somebody who works just part of a year (and with a lot of time off during that time - two weeks at Christmas, spring break, a week at Thanksgiving, fall break, etc.) should make more than I make working the full year! I'm entitled to my opinion and that's all I'll say on the subject since I know I have an unpopular opinion. You don't know the first thing about teaching as a profession, if that's how you think it is. In the interests of not losing my cool, that's all I'm going to say about that.
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sassyangel
Drama Llama
Posts: 7,456
Jun 26, 2014 23:58:32 GMT
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Post by sassyangel on Apr 22, 2018 2:13:51 GMT
Let's not pile on the one pea. While we may not believe we are selfish, there are a number of people that do believe that. If we shit down their opinions by getting offended, there is no longer an opportunity to try to have them see outside. For many, all they see is having to pay for daycare or having to take the day off and stay home with their kids.I'm more than sympathetic to this part of it. I know its not ideal, I do think its come as a last straw, but I do understand the tough realities that is this bringing to students families in OK. I just draw the line at referring to teachers as selfish, and part-time workers.
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Post by Merge on Apr 22, 2018 11:41:19 GMT
Thank you so much for sharing your perspective. If you don't mind, I have another couple of questions: are you actually making less than the average Texas teacher makes (we'll say $50K for argument)? And if so, why haven't you just chosen another profession or found another job as you suggest they do? I have CPAs in my family who make 2-3x what I do as a teacher. Yes, I'm making less than $50 per year. I'm not the one complaining about my salary though. I also haven't had a raise in several years. I know I could make more but I happen to like my job and the people I work with. As I said, if you're unhappy with your job, find another one. I happen to think it is wrong to strike. If I may say so - I think it's wrong to hold teachers to an artificially low salary because you have chosen to take one yourself. Clearly you don't need more money, or you'd find a different job that pays more, as you have the option to do that in your field. Please understand that the teachers don't have that option. We can't stay in the field in which we are trained and go find another job making more money. And many are struggling to get by on their salaries, working additional jobs, etc. Just like you, we are not being paid a salary that is commensurate with our training, skills and the hours that we work. Unlike you, we can't just go find a job in the same field that does pay an appropriate salary. So I think you're equating your personal choice with a situation in which teachers have no choice. Also, what do you think of the way our schools are funded? Teacher salaries aside, does it seem right to you that in oil-wealthy states like TX and OK, kids are using crumbling, decades-old textbooks? Does it seem right that some schools only operate 4 days a week? Does it seem right that some have cut all ancillary classes? And again I'll ask you the question you haven't answered yet: what happens to our schools when too many teachers leave the profession?
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