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Post by flanz on Dec 17, 2018 21:03:57 GMT
MF'ing science getting in the way of my beliefs. How dare we know it works on a medical level! God forbid we try to offer the cheapest and one of the most effective ways to deal with the basic mental health disorders. My mother’s church did a series of adult Sunday school lessons on ‘Satan’s Strategies Unmasked’. It covered the usual subjects of their disdain-Catholics, LDS, Jehovah’s Witnesses- but also devoted an entire Adult Sunday school lesson to ‘Scientists’. They actually had a printed out lesson book used all over the country by this church. An entire Sunday morning trashing science. They also had a fit over a local yoga studio. I busted out of there when I was 16 and never looked back. Wow! I'm curious what denomination that was, if you're comfortable sharing. Happy you freed yourself from that lunacy!
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Dec 17, 2018 21:34:12 GMT
As if Buddhists or Hindus own the concept of breath and breathing and being in awareness.
As if Christians own the concept of being kind and caring for others.
Religions have some great ideas - but the rest of their baggage is what makes them ridiculous. Keep the ideas (mindfulness, calmness, kindness, etc), ditch the idiocy (gays are evil, women are lesser, certain groups are beneath others).
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Post by mollycoddle on Dec 17, 2018 21:39:45 GMT
Ugh. You don't want to fund the public schools well enough to have psychology services available for students who need it, and you don't want to fund healthcare that might provide mental health services, but when a teacher tries to help kids with anxiety or anger issues (on top of everything else she's already teaching), you're going to throw a fit about that too. Only thoughts and prayers will be allowed, I guess. 🙄🙁
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J u l e e
Drama Llama
Posts: 6,531
Location: Cincinnati
Jun 28, 2014 2:50:47 GMT
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Post by J u l e e on Dec 17, 2018 21:50:05 GMT
"Imagine your elementary school child coming home one night and explaining the actions that their teacher asked them to do that day — to close their eyes and obey an audio recording that tells them to clear their minds, to watch their memories and emotions float away on clouds, and to feel the love and warmth from their connection to the universe. How would you react if this same audio recording is telling your child to look inside themselves to reach inner-goodness and peace? Imagine that day after day, your child is subjected to 15-minute “Mindfulness” sessions that are similar to anciently established Buddhist and Hindu practices.... The schools are using curriculums including but not limited to Inner Explorer, Mind Up, and Dialectic Behavior Therapy. An audio is played telling young students: “We’re all connected through nature. And we’re all connected through the universe.” It tells them how to clear their minds, watch their memories and emotions float away on clouds, and connect with the universe." I am a Christian. The word evangelical has become sketchy to me, but I love and follow the teachings of Jesus. And I practice mindfulness. I do yoga. I pray. And because of those things, I am able to be a good human instead of a ball of stress. IMO, none of the things in that script are counter to Jesus/God/Christianity. We ARE all connected through nature. I believe God created it, and the universe, and us. How a could we not be connected? I have always said I feel closest to God in nature. I definitely feel the love and warmth from my connection to the universe. I do have inner-goodness and peace. Promised to me by my creator. When I look inside myself and see those things, I know where they came from. And that's what I teach my daughter. Nothing she would hear during mindfulness practice through these curriculums scare me. And if it truly scares any evangelicals, I would question their faith in their creator.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Dec 17, 2018 23:07:10 GMT
What are they so VERY afraid of? Having to think for themselves versus being spoon fed everything they know about spirituality from someone else.
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Deleted
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Jun 1, 2024 18:28:43 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Dec 17, 2018 23:54:05 GMT
"Imagine your elementary school child coming home one night and explaining the actions that their teacher asked them to do that day — to close their eyes and obey an audio recording that tells them to clear their minds, to watch their memories and emotions float away on clouds, and to feel the love and warmth from their connection to the universe. How would you react if this same audio recording is telling your child to look inside themselves to reach inner-goodness and peace? Imagine that day after day, your child is subjected to 15-minute “Mindfulness” sessions that are similar to anciently established Buddhist and Hindu practices.... The schools are using curriculums including but not limited to Inner Explorer, Mind Up, and Dialectic Behavior Therapy. An audio is played telling young students: “We’re all connected through nature. And we’re all connected through the universe.” It tells them how to clear their minds, watch their memories and emotions float away on clouds, and connect with the universe." I am a Christian. The word evangelical has become sketchy to me, but I love and follow the teachings of Jesus. And I practice mindfulness. I do yoga. I pray. And because of those things, I am able to be a good human instead of a ball of stress. IMO, none of the things in that script are counter to Jesus/God/Christianity. We ARE all connected through nature. I believe God created it, and the universe, and us. How a could we not be connected? I have always said I feel closest to God in nature. I definitely feel the love and warmth from my connection to the universe. I do have inner-goodness and peace. Promised to me by my creator. When I look inside myself and see those things, I know where they came from. And that's what I teach my daughter. Nothing she would hear during mindfulness practice through these curriculums scare me. And if it truly scares any evangelicals, I would question their faith in their creator. I think the ACLJ needs to hear from tens of thousands of Christians like you. But, I'm not sure they'd listen anyway. They have their bronze age rules and they don't seem willing to entertain any ideas that they've decided is contrary to them.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Dec 18, 2018 0:00:24 GMT
Newsweek's take
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Dec 18, 2018 0:09:05 GMT
Reminds me of this BBC documentary
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cycworker
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 4,376
Jun 26, 2014 0:42:38 GMT
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Post by cycworker on Dec 18, 2018 6:17:09 GMT
I'm actually going to disagree with everyone. We do mindfulness / cantering prayer in our church, so I don't have s problem with the concept. I do have a problem with the language of that script in the first paragraph. On its own, it does exclude Christians. The teacher needs to acknowledge that some people do connect with their inner selves through Christ. So before using the tape the teacher should be telling the kids to substitute God or Jesus where it fits, if that's their faith grounding. Could you point out what part of that first paragraph “excludes Christians”. In fairness, excludes may have been the wrong word. Some Christians, though, would consider the wording in that script, with its emphasis on nature as being the primary object of focus/worship/direction of energy, to be idolatry - putting something above God - which breaks a key commandment.
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cycworker
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 4,376
Jun 26, 2014 0:42:38 GMT
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Post by cycworker on Dec 18, 2018 6:19:54 GMT
I'm actually going to disagree with everyone. We do mindfulness / cantering prayer in our church, so I don't have s problem with the concept. I do have a problem with the language of that script in the first paragraph. On its own, it does exclude Christians. The teacher needs to acknowledge that some people do connect with their inner selves through Christ. So before using the tape the teacher should be telling the kids to substitute God or Jesus where it fits, if that's their faith grounding. Why is it a teacher’s responsibility to turn a non-religious practice religious by asking kids to substitute a Christian deity? And why should that teacher be exclusively concerned with the Christian god figures? No.... I am suggesting that it be made clear they are ALLOWED go substitute a Christian (or Jewish, or Muslim, or any faith's) deity. Because again, as a Christian, I don't worship nature... I worship God, through Christ. Now, I may connect to Him through time in nature, but the connection is with God. Im not actually Evangelical. I'm definitely not fundamentalist - they call me a fake Christian because I support things like women in ministry, LGBT equality, and abortion rights. Editted for clarity.
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ashley
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 3,400
Jun 17, 2016 12:36:53 GMT
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Post by ashley on Dec 18, 2018 12:26:27 GMT
Why is it a teacher’s responsibility to turn a non-religious practice religious by asking kids to substitute a Christian deity? And why should that teacher be exclusively concerned with the Christian god figures? No.... I am suggesting that it be made clear they are ALLOWED go substitute a Christian (or Jewish, or Muslim, or any faith's) deity. Because again, as a Christian, I don't worship nature... I worship God, through Christ. Now, I may connect to Him through time in nature, but the connection is with God. Im not actually Evangelical. I'm definitely not fundamentalist - they call me a fake Christian because I support things like women in ministry, LGBT equality, and abortion rights. Editted for clarity. Again, not a teacher’s job to ensure religion is included in schools.
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scrappinmama
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 4,885
Jun 26, 2014 12:54:09 GMT
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Post by scrappinmama on Dec 18, 2018 12:51:34 GMT
What are they so VERY afraid of? Women, gay and transgender, immigrants, the poor, I could go on. They are afraid of anything different. What is really sad is that they forget about all the things that Jesus taught us.
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scrappinmama
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 4,885
Jun 26, 2014 12:54:09 GMT
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Post by scrappinmama on Dec 18, 2018 12:53:01 GMT
"Imagine your elementary school child coming home one night and explaining the actions that their teacher asked them to do that day — to close their eyes and obey an audio recording that tells them to clear their minds, to watch their memories and emotions float away on clouds, and to feel the love and warmth from their connection to the universe. How would you react if this same audio recording is telling your child to look inside themselves to reach inner-goodness and peace? Imagine that day after day, your child is subjected to 15-minute “Mindfulness” sessions that are similar to anciently established Buddhist and Hindu practices.... The schools are using curriculums including but not limited to Inner Explorer, Mind Up, and Dialectic Behavior Therapy. An audio is played telling young students: “We’re all connected through nature. And we’re all connected through the universe.” It tells them how to clear their minds, watch their memories and emotions float away on clouds, and connect with the universe." I am a Christian. The word evangelical has become sketchy to me, but I love and follow the teachings of Jesus. And I practice mindfulness. I do yoga. I pray. And because of those things, I am able to be a good human instead of a ball of stress. IMO, none of the things in that script are counter to Jesus/God/Christianity. We ARE all connected through nature. I believe God created it, and the universe, and us. How a could we not be connected? I have always said I feel closest to God in nature. I definitely feel the love and warmth from my connection to the universe. I do have inner-goodness and peace. Promised to me by my creator. When I look inside myself and see those things, I know where they came from. And that's what I teach my daughter. Nothing she would hear during mindfulness practice through these curriculums scare me. And if it truly scares any evangelicals, I would question their faith in their creator. Amen to all of that. My church even teaches yoga.
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Post by Spongemom Scrappants on Dec 18, 2018 13:31:44 GMT
When statewide standards testing was first introduced in SC, everyone freaked out. That spring testing period took on a life of its own and everyone's anxiety ramped up. I was asked by a couple of my children's teachers to come do relaxation yoga with their classes to help the students deal with their test anxiety. (I have multiple certifications as a group exercise instructor.) The kids loved it and the teachers who took advantage of it believed it made a real difference in helping the children deal better with the long days of stress-inducing tests.
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schizo319
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 3,030
Jun 28, 2014 0:26:58 GMT
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Post by schizo319 on Dec 18, 2018 13:37:22 GMT
Mindfulness and relying on oneself to deal with the stress of life is a direct threat to the power structure of organized religion. If we teach our children to deal with their problems without Jesus, who's going to fill up the offering plate on Sundays?
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Deleted
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Jun 1, 2024 18:28:43 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Dec 18, 2018 13:39:01 GMT
Mindfulness isn't about worshipping anything, no one is saying worship nature and put it above 'God'. Do you misunderstand things on purpose so you can disagree?
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Post by gar on Dec 18, 2018 13:42:57 GMT
Mindfulness and relying on oneself to deal with the stress of life is a direct threat to the power structure of organized religion. If we teach our children to deal with their problems without Jesus, who's going to fill up the offering plate on Sundays? Good point. The realisation that one can do those things as well as live a purposeful, honest, kind and giving life without a god is a threat to their very existence.
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Post by hop2 on Dec 18, 2018 13:48:32 GMT
Are you teaching early elementary where you have the students for all classes for most of the day (except for pullouts like PE?). I can see where working a few minutes of non academic activities can fit in. How do you "justify" it according to standards though? Health? All teacher activities here have to meet some sort of standards.
I have teenagers who are constantly moving from one class room to another. From 7:30 to 8:55 there is time where kids could choose to participate in organized meditation. My kids have various groups that meet for 30 mins during that time frame. Beta club, FBLA, SADD, FCA etc.
I have a self contained 4th grade class. I don't have to justify it because my school encourages us to do this. All of this helps prevent behaviors that disrupt class time. Kids are able to focus better. Students are kinder, more understanding. Learning environment is important. Why should you have to ‘justify’ a life skill that is helpful in nearly every aspect of life? Wether you Christian or not, wether your going to be a great person or an evil genius learning to be mindful and use your own brain to help yourself will improve any task you choose to do. It helps you focus, calm, center yourself, problem solve and for some it can even improve thier interactions with others. Especially if your capable of empathy. I fail to see the downside of it as long as it is not religious based in intent or content it is only teaching children a useful life skill. And no one needs to be religious in anyway to be mindful.
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Post by pierkiss on Dec 18, 2018 14:29:03 GMT
MF'ing science getting in the way of my beliefs. How dare we know it works on a medical level! God forbid we try to offer the cheapest and one of the most effective ways to deal with the basic mental health disorders. My mother’s church did a series of adult Sunday school lessons on ‘Satan’s Strategies Unmasked’. It covered the usual subjects of their disdain-Catholics, LDS, Jehovah’s Witnesses- but also devoted an entire Adult Sunday school lesson to ‘Scientists’. They actually had a printed out lesson book used all over the country by this church. An entire Sunday morning trashing science. They also had a fit over a local yoga studio. I busted out of there when I was 16 and never looked back. Oh yeah. My mom made me attend one of those when I was in 9th grade. Basically everything is evil, only church and church approved activities will keep the devil away. It put a bad taste in my mouth for our church. And I already didn’t like church to begin with. Biggest waste of 2.5 hrs ever. This was at a Catholic Church.
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Country Ham
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 3,313
Jun 25, 2014 19:32:08 GMT
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Post by Country Ham on Dec 18, 2018 16:59:59 GMT
I have a self contained 4th grade class. I don't have to justify it because my school encourages us to do this. All of this helps prevent behaviors that disrupt class time. Kids are able to focus better. Students are kinder, more understanding. Learning environment is important. Why should you have to ‘justify’ a life skill that is helpful in nearly every aspect of life?Wether you Christian or not, wether your going to be a great person or an evil genius learning to be mindful and use your own brain to help yourself will improve any task you choose to do. It helps you focus, calm, center yourself, problem solve and for some it can even improve thier interactions with others. Especially if your capable of empathy. I fail to see the downside of it as long as it is not religious based in intent or content it is only teaching children a useful life skill. And no one needs to be religious in anyway to be mindful. I used the word 'justify' in quotes because I was struggling to find the right word. I am not sure if you quoted me or not but I was the person who first brought it up. In our classrooms all activities have to have a state standard attached to it that the activity works towards. So I was wondering where meditation would fit in IF you were teaching in a school like ours.
I have no issues with relaxation techniques. Even as a kid when people would start doing things like "imagine yourself in a field of daisies" I would tune them out. I am not a fan of meditation where you are asked to " to watch your memories and emotions float away on clouds, and to feel the love and warmth from their connection to the universe". It's not because of my faith. There is nothing inherently wrong in this sort of meditation , but, it's not something I personally like and I would find it so distracting it would have the opposite effect before testing. Always made me uncomfortable and as a student I wouldn't want to be made to participate in meditation any more then some students don't want to be forced to pray etc (and while one is not the same as the other both are activities that affect a person psyche). I just think it should be optional. Everyone de-stresses in different ways. Asking me to send my memories on a cloud somewhere would not de-stress me. Putting in my ear buds and listening to my favorite music would be more beneficial.
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Post by Merge on Dec 18, 2018 17:06:27 GMT
I took a class on teaching kids to use mindfulness and it doesn't have to use the kind of script like the one quoted. In my class I teach my kids to use breathing techniques to calm themselves. We keep gratitude journals so that kids can focus on positive things. We talk about taking a pause and choosing a better response when they are reacting to something. We use the mindfulness videos on gonoodle and they are excellent. They aren't religious at all. There is Maximo - a monkey who teaches kids yoga moves, but he doesn't call it yoga or use yoga terms. It's stretching. I opted to gonoodle so that if any parents asked me about what we are doing, they can view all of it. Gonoodle has so many other things in it too - songs, dances, workouts, etc. It's great. I think it's all pretty necessary. I have a lot of kids who live in stressful households. I find the few minutes I dedicate to it twice a day to be worth it. I am able to get through more teaching material because we have less disruptions. When my students do flip their lid, I know how to help them calm themselves. It's one of those things that even the kids who don't need it benefit from it. There is no downside to doing it. I find that it has helped me deal with a lot of the frustrations of teaching as well. I use the Maximo videos on Go Noodle, too - as well as the other song/dance activities - with kids who need to calm down when they come to me after P.E. or just when we need a brain break. I can't honestly imagine how a parent could object.
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Post by Merge on Dec 18, 2018 17:08:00 GMT
Why should you have to ‘justify’ a life skill that is helpful in nearly every aspect of life?Wether you Christian or not, wether your going to be a great person or an evil genius learning to be mindful and use your own brain to help yourself will improve any task you choose to do. It helps you focus, calm, center yourself, problem solve and for some it can even improve thier interactions with others. Especially if your capable of empathy. I fail to see the downside of it as long as it is not religious based in intent or content it is only teaching children a useful life skill. And no one needs to be religious in anyway to be mindful. I used the word 'justify' in quotes because I was struggling to find the right word. I am not sure if you quoted me or not but I was the person who first brought it up. In our classrooms all activities have to have a state standard attached to it that the activity works towards. So I was wondering where meditation would fit in IF you were teaching in a school like ours.
If pressed, I would say that I'm doing a cross-curricular partnership with the P.E. teacher to cover some of her social/emotional wellness standards.
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Post by crazy4scraps on Dec 19, 2018 15:42:21 GMT
It sounds like the kind of activity that should be elective for students/parents rather then mandatory. Our kids barely get 15 mins to run outside in the fresh air and I would rather mine get fresh air in between classes then meditation to be honest. I would have to spend more time in the relationship between meditation and prayer to have an opinion on the practice. It seems like 15 mins is a lot to take from academics where some classes are only 45 mins for math etc. I hear what you’re saying about kids being able to go outside, etc., our kid usually gets one 20 minute recess outside although some days they get to go out for another short time if they are particularly needing it and time allows. However, some of these kids have learned *zero* self calming or coping skills at home, and some have very stressful, chaotic home lives where they are bounced from place to place multiple times a week. All of that also has an effect on not only those kids directly affected, but on their classmates too because the affected kids can cause multiple disruptions throughout the day in spite of an added recess period which sometimes gets those kids even more wound up. As the parent of a kid whose BFF comes from a house like that (mom and dad aren’t together anymore, mom has lived in seven different places in the four years we’ve known them and has had an endless string of different jobs and boyfriends, and thankfully the kid primarily lives with dad and his parents who have provided a good amount of stability when she is there). Want to know what my DD put on her Christmas list to Santa this year? “That BFF XX will stop throwing tantrums in class every day.” Seriously, she asked Santa to give her friend some self control. These kids benefit from this kind of stuff. It does help and I have absolutely no objections to the teachers spending a little bit of their classroom time on it.
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Deleted
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Jun 1, 2024 18:28:43 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Dec 19, 2018 17:03:00 GMT
It sounds like the kind of activity that should be elective for students/parents rather then mandatory. Our kids barely get 15 mins to run outside in the fresh air and I would rather mine get fresh air in between classes then meditation to be honest. I would have to spend more time in the relationship between meditation and prayer to have an opinion on the practice. It seems like 15 mins is a lot to take from academics where some classes are only 45 mins for math etc. I hear what you’re saying about kids being able to go outside, etc., our kid usually gets one 20 minute recess outside although some days they get to go out for another short time if they are particularly needing it and time allows. However, some of these kids have learned *zero* self calming or coping skills at home, and some have very stressful, chaotic home lives where they are bounced from place to place multiple times a week. All of that also has an effect on not only those kids directly affected, but on their classmates too because the affected kids can cause multiple disruptions throughout the day in spite of an added recess period which sometimes gets those kids even more wound up. As the parent of a kid whose BFF comes from a house like that (mom and dad aren’t together anymore, mom has lived in seven different places in the four years we’ve known them and has had an endless string of different jobs and boyfriends, and thankfully the kid primarily lives with dad and his parents who have provided a good amount of stability when she is there). Want to know what my DD put on her Christmas list to Santa this year? “That BFF XX will stop throwing tantrums in class every day.” Seriously, she asked Santa to give her friend some self control. These kids benefit from this kind of stuff. It does help and I have absolutely no objections to the teachers spending a little bit of their classroom time on it. That is so sad. I am sorry for your DD. I am sorry for her BFF. I am sorry we live in a society filled with scared people who take all their life rules from pre-science desert dwellers, while we live in the 21st century developed world w/lives they couldn't imagine in their wildest dreams. I am sorry they insist on making the rest of society live by their idiocy.
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Post by Merge on Dec 19, 2018 18:31:13 GMT
This thread came to mind yesterday as I got an email saying my new school has enrolled me, as a new employee, in two full days of training for their classroom/student management approach.
This will be the sixth such program I've trained on in 12 years - Fish Philosophy, Love and Logic (twice), CHAMPS, Leader in Me, IB PYP learner profile, and now this. They're all pretty much the same: build relationships with kids and set clear routines and expectations, and kindly enforce them. Just the vocabulary changes. So you can imagine how excited I am to sit through two full days of stuff I already know! And to find out that it's an (checks notes) immersive, participatory experience ... yay! (Every teacher on the board is rolling her eyes in sympathy with me right now.)
How does that relate to this thread? Well, it all ties in to the fact that so many parents can't or won't provide their children with a stable, loving environment and appropriate parental guidance. That's why I need to learn to build quasi-parental relationships with troubled kids and to set very basic expectations like "don't hit people when you're angry" or "follow directions without arguing." Those things are not always taught at home. That's also why I sometimes engage in a little mindfulness exercise with my classes - kids are not able to self-regulate because often the parents can't self-regulate, either. I guarantee you your child's school or district spends tens of thousands or even millions of dollars each year teaching teachers how to deal with large groups of kids who have had little/no parenting.
You want to help struggling schools? Tell your kid no periodically and without a consolation prize. Allow them to experience and manage age-appropriate periods of boredom or activities they don't enjoy without becoming destructive or disruptive. Give them appropriate attention so they won't seek it in inappropriate ways at school. Teach them constructive ways to express anger. Do the hard work of making sure they know how to listen to and follow directions respectfully. Teach them to be kind to others. Teach them to take responsibility for their actions and belongings. Make sure your child is eating mostly healthy foods at home. Don't send him to school with a "lunch" of Mountain Dew and Funyuns. Kids are kids and they'll never be perfect, but you'd be shocked how many nice kids from "good" families come to school without any exposure to these basic life skills and experiences. They're unsettled and they're angry.
We teachers shouldn't need to be parents to large groups of troubled kids. We shouldn't need to do class mindfulness activities. And yet here we are, because the majority of American parents are not doing their jobs.
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Post by threegirls on Dec 20, 2018 2:40:07 GMT
Two of my daughters attend a private school for kids with learning disabilities. It is an amazing school and has done wonders for my daughters. Most of the kids at the school have attention problems along with a learning disability.
Middle school kids have 15 minutes of mindfulness in the morning and 5 minutes of mindfulness after lunch. Trust me, that school doesn't do ANYTHING without research to back up whatever they are doing! I would imagine in order to handle a whole school of kids with learning disabilities coupled with attention problems you would do what works and mindfulness works for these kids.
The lower school kids meditate for a few minutes in the morning and afternoon.
It really never crossed my mind that anyone would have a problem with mindfulness.
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Post by OntarioScrapper on Dec 21, 2018 22:17:26 GMT
MF'ing science getting in the way of my beliefs. How dare we know it works on a medical level! God forbid we try to offer the cheapest and one of the most effective ways to deal with the basic mental health disorders. My mother’s church did a series of adult Sunday school lessons on ‘Satan’s Strategies Unmasked’. It covered the usual subjects of their disdain-Catholics, LDS, Jehovah’s Witnesses- but also devoted an entire Adult Sunday school lesson to ‘Scientists’. They actually had a printed out lesson book used all over the country by this church. An entire Sunday morning trashing science. They also had a fit over a local yoga studio. I busted out of there when I was 16 and never looked back. People like this just make he sigh. It means they don't realize how much is actually in their daily lives BECAUSE of Science. I'm sure that knowledge would put them in a coma of despair.
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Post by OntarioScrapper on Dec 21, 2018 22:28:11 GMT
Mindfulness isn't about worshipping anything, no one is saying worship nature and put it above 'God'. Do you misunderstand things on purpose so you can disagree? Actually this thinking is taught. I was taught this as a kid. Connecting with Nature was a big No No. At some point in my life I left religion. It just didn't make any sense to me anymore as I got older.
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