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Post by Really Red on Jan 19, 2019 16:19:31 GMT
I am honestly asking here.
Trump has signed an order so that the furloughed workers are given back pay.
No one is working.
If you don't work, you get back pay? How is that right? I understand completely those who do not wish to work if they feel that they might not get paid, but now they are guaranteed back pay.
Putting aside the insaneness of the government shut down, I'd really like to understand that. You can take 4 weeks off and still get paid for that? It doesn't seem right to me.
And what about those who ARE working? Shouldn't they get more? I'd be super frustrated if I were they, and saw others didn't work and still got paid.
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Post by MichyM on Jan 19, 2019 16:23:22 GMT
But, they didn't "take four weeks off." And yes, IMO they should be paid every cent they would have earned if they hadn't been furloughed.
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Post by mustlovecats on Jan 19, 2019 16:25:28 GMT
Nobody asked for this. Every furloughed person I know wants to go to work but can’t. It’s morally wrong to expect people who have jobs to do and want to do them to lose out on their income because the government can’t get its shit together. This is not a vacation.
The ones who are working... actually I do think they should get special compensation for working without pay all this time. They made an even bigger sacrifice paying for gas and childcare to go to work while not having an income. Which is also morally wrong.
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Post by busy on Jan 19, 2019 16:28:57 GMT
No one is taking time off. They are not being allowed to work because of the president’s shenanigans.
Why should they get screwed?
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Post by Skellinton on Jan 19, 2019 16:33:02 GMT
I am honestly asking here. Trump has signed an order so that the furloughed workers are given back pay. No one is working. If you don't work, you get back pay? How is that right? I understand completely those who do not wish to work if they feel that they might not get paid, but now they are guaranteed back pay. Putting aside the insaneness of the government shut down, I'd really like to understand that. You can take 4 weeks off and still get paid for that? It doesn't seem right to me. And what about those who ARE working? Shouldn't they get more? I'd be super frustrated if I were they, and saw others didn't work and still got paid. I kind of look at it like an unemployment benefit. I used to work a job that shut down for 4 weeks a year and during that time I received some unemployment (3 weeks worth). I wanted to work, was able to work, but just couldn’t as my job site was closed. The weeks were spread out through the year and I couldn’t very easily find a job willing to hire me for one week, so I didn’t really have any option. We were not given enough vacation or sick pay to even cover one week of work missed and those three weeks could have been devastating to my finances at the time. The government employees who are not working are in the same situation. They want to work, but they can’t, I imagine it would be very difficult for them to find temp work with the uncertainty of when this will be resolved. I do think the people working without pay should receive a bonus for each day worked, but I don’t know hw that could or would work.
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Post by ntsf on Jan 19, 2019 16:38:23 GMT
they can't go on vacation, they are at risk for health issues (no payments to them or docs), they often are not allowed to take a side job... they are stuck and without pay due to a tantrum by trump. their credit is suffering, people are going hungry and cold. and the people really screwed over all the millions of federal contractors who will not get back pay and may lose it all over the lack of pay.
there is going to be a sucking sound as the best employees go find other jobs.. and the feds will have a hard time recruiting the best to work for the govt.. where the pay and perks are not really the best..
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marimoose
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 3,282
Jul 22, 2014 2:10:14 GMT
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Post by marimoose on Jan 19, 2019 16:43:49 GMT
And this is the ridiculousness of our government. What is the point of guaranteeing the workers will get paid. Let them work then. How hard is that to figure out?!?! And I do think they should all get paid as they did nothing wrong to start with. I do think that those who have been able to continue showing up for work should receive some sort of benefit. I do know how it can all be figured out equitably. My brother works for TSA and is showing up for work everyday. They have even had forced overtime. Is it easy? No. He simply has faith that this will end soon and thankfully his wife still has her paycheck so they have something coming in. He texted me this morning to say how many are calling out next week, how many already have because they needed to take other jobs to pay the bills and two more air traffic controllers quit. What is horrible sad is that people are feeling they need to quit to take other jobs and are now losing all their benefits including pensions. AND for what??? Can you imagine if every single federal employee decided to band together and not show up for work for even one day how fast this debacle might be solved? Now that would send a message
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Post by kluski on Jan 19, 2019 16:52:26 GMT
I agree. It’s ridiculous. They are home and will get back pay they always do while others are working for their pay. Perhaps half their pay would be like an unemployment benefit. This isn’t a Trump issue. This isn’t the first time there’s been a govt shut down but it always ends the same. Essential employees work for pay non essential just get paid.
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Post by SockMonkey on Jan 19, 2019 18:19:53 GMT
It's right for them to be paid because they're not working through no fault of their own. In the meantime, they're NOT being paid, can't pay their bills, some are food insecure and dependent on charity to get them through. The *least* this shitty president can do is pay them.
This leads me to the most ridiculous part of all of this, that some conservatives would rather pay people for not working than reopen the government and get back to negotiations and the work that needs to be done.
I mean...Okay.
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Post by Really Red on Jan 19, 2019 18:35:24 GMT
And this is the ridiculousness of our government. What is the point of guaranteeing the workers will get paid. Let them work then. How hard is that to figure out?!?! And I do think they should all get paid as they did nothing wrong to start with. I do think that those who have been able to continue showing up for work should receive some sort of benefit. I do know how it can all be figured out equitably. My brother works for TSA and is showing up for work everyday. They have even had forced overtime. Is it easy? No. He simply has faith that this will end soon and thankfully his wife still has her paycheck so they have something coming in. He texted me this morning to say how many are calling out next week, how many already have because they needed to take other jobs to pay the bills and two more air traffic controllers quit. What is horrible sad is that people are feeling they need to quit to take other jobs and are now losing all their benefits including pensions. AND for what??? Can you imagine if every single federal employee decided to band together and not show up for work for even one day how fast this debacle might be solved? Now that would send a message I do not want to be insensitive. It is horrific and stupid. I know if something is shut down there's no way you can go in and work. I feel for those people like TSA agents and law enforcement people who don't have a choice. I absolutely believe they should be compensated greater than the people who did not have to work. I guess I just don't quite understand why everything doesn't stay open as long as you're going to eventually pay people. I do understand that there are people who live paycheck-to-paycheck and have to take other jobs. I am so angry about the shutdown I can't even say, but it seems like the government is making everything even worse by not allowing people to work and do their jobs.
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TheOtherMeg
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 2,541
Jun 25, 2014 20:58:14 GMT
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Post by TheOtherMeg on Jan 19, 2019 18:37:15 GMT
Many of these workers are going to end up paying penalties for missing rent, house payments, car payments, school payments, etc. They're going to lose their child's place in daycare because they cannot make that payment, so even when they do go back to work, they'll be in a tough spot getting child care. (And, like all big cities, finding good childcare in the DC area is a nightmare.)
Back pay won't come close to making any of these workers whole, whether they were forced to work (UNPAID) during the shutdown *or* forced to stay home (UNPAID).
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Post by mustlovecats on Jan 19, 2019 18:42:55 GMT
Many of these workers are going to end up paying penalties for missing rent, house payments, car payments, school payments, etc. They're going to lose their child's place in daycare because they cannot make that payment, so even when they do go back to work, they'll be in a tough spot getting child care. (And, like all big cities, finding good childcare in the DC area is a nightmare.) Back pay won't come close to making any of these workers whole, whether they were forced to work (UNPAID) during the shutdown *or* forced to stay home (UNPAID). We are beltway dwellers so we are in the thick of this for sure. My kids’ former daycare just gave my friend two months free because she is working without pay. She cried. I’m furious it has to be this way but I love seeing people being kinder to each other. It illustrates why it shouldn’t be this way, messing around with people’s livelihood in a political game is wrong.
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Post by myshelly on Jan 19, 2019 18:45:55 GMT
And this is the ridiculousness of our government. What is the point of guaranteeing the workers will get paid. Let them work then. How hard is that to figure out?!?! And I do think they should all get paid as they did nothing wrong to start with. I do think that those who have been able to continue showing up for work should receive some sort of benefit. I do know how it can all be figured out equitably. My brother works for TSA and is showing up for work everyday. They have even had forced overtime. Is it easy? No. He simply has faith that this will end soon and thankfully his wife still has her paycheck so they have something coming in. He texted me this morning to say how many are calling out next week, how many already have because they needed to take other jobs to pay the bills and two more air traffic controllers quit. What is horrible sad is that people are feeling they need to quit to take other jobs and are now losing all their benefits including pensions. AND for what??? Can you imagine if every single federal employee decided to band together and not show up for work for even one day how fast this debacle might be solved? Now that would send a message I do not want to be insensitive. It is horrific and stupid. I know if something is shut down there's no way you can go in and work. I feel for those people like TSA agents and law enforcement people who don't have a choice. I absolutely believe they should be compensated greater than the people who did not have to work. I guess I just don't quite understand why everything doesn't stay open as long as you're going to eventually pay people. I do understand that there are people who live paycheck-to-paycheck and have to take other jobs. I am so angry about the shutdown I can't even say, but it seems like the government is making everything even worse by not allowing people to work and do their jobs. None of these people have a choice. You keep saying “they don’t have to work,” but the truth is they don’t *get* to work. They are *not allowed* to work. These people WANT to work. This isn’t a vacation for them, it’s a crisis. I just have a huge problem with the way you’re wording things and think it shows a lot about your mindset toward the workers.
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moodyblue
Drama Llama
Posts: 6,166
Location: Western Illinois
Site Supporter
Jun 26, 2014 21:07:23 GMT
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Post by moodyblue on Jan 19, 2019 18:50:17 GMT
None of these people affected have it easy. Some are not being allowed to work and they are not being paid - but they certainly are NOT on vacation. Some have to work and are not being paid but they still have the expenses of working - commuting, child care,etc.
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Post by Crack-a-lackin on Jan 19, 2019 18:52:12 GMT
If you look at it like a snow day and the workers get all this bonus time off to have fun then it might be hard to imagine they should get paid. But then the blizzard drags on and the workers want to go back to work but their employers shut the office down so they aren’t even allowed in the building even if they could make it to work through the snow...should they not get paid because the office is closed? It’s not their fault. They would work if they could.
When I was in a grocery union there was a long strike and my store was one that didn’t close and I was expected to work every day (it wasn’t considered crossing the picket line) and it was a similarly odd experience except that I was getting paid. All of these workers in these other stores were banned from their jobs, which I looked at more like snow days at the time, and here I was having to work. Then it dragged on for a long time and these families couldn’t pay their bills and it didn’t look as fun. They would shop in our store and they were so angry at us for something that was also out of our control.
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seaexplore
Prolific Pea
Posts: 8,396
Apr 25, 2015 23:57:30 GMT
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Post by seaexplore on Jan 19, 2019 18:59:07 GMT
I do not want to be insensitive. It is horrific and stupid. I know if something is shut down there's no way you can go in and work. I feel for those people like TSA agents and law enforcement people who don't have a choice. I absolutely believe they should be compensated greater than the people who did not have to work. I guess I just don't quite understand why everything doesn't stay open as long as you're going to eventually pay people. I do understand that there are people who live paycheck-to-paycheck and have to take other jobs. I am so angry about the shutdown I can't even say, but it seems like the government is making everything even worse by not allowing people to work and do their jobs. None of these people have a choice. You keep saying “they don’t have to work,” but the truth is they don’t *get* to work. They are *not allowed* to work. These people WANT to work. This isn’t a vacation for them, it’s a crisis. I just have a huge problem with the way you’re wording things and think it shows a lot about your mindset toward the workers. I get where Red is coming from. It seems like they shouldn't get paid because they're not working. BUT, like many have said- they WANT to work. I understand WHY they should/and will be paid. HOWEVER, it seems like "vacation" because they aren't working. It's really a stupid situation all the way around. They should be paid and should be at work. The President is being a big fat winey baby and affecting millions by his little temper tantrum. It completely sucks ass to want to work but not be able to. I'm sure there are some who aren't working who ARE doing fun stuff with their families and will receive pay for the time they did these things. Yes, it costs money to do things with your family most of the time but if they've saved up money, they can do things. If they were not able to save up money, they're stuck chilling at home or locally and miserable.
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Post by padresfan619 on Jan 19, 2019 19:05:56 GMT
It isn’t like people simply chose to take the time off unpaid. I know a family who is being affected by this shut down. Both adults work for the federal government and they have two kids, they *want* to work but aren’t allowed to. Should they just kiss a month’s pay goodbye because of the choices of Trump?
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Post by myshelly on Jan 19, 2019 19:06:49 GMT
I’m having a really hard time seeing how anyone could think of this as a “vacation”.
That word must mean something different to you than it does to me.
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AmeliaBloomer
Drama Llama
Posts: 6,842
Location: USA
Jun 26, 2014 5:01:45 GMT
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Post by AmeliaBloomer on Jan 19, 2019 19:08:25 GMT
I do not want to be insensitive. It is horrific and stupid. I know if something is shut down there's no way you can go in and work. I feel for those people like TSA agents and law enforcement people who don't have a choice. I absolutely believe they should be compensated greater than the people who did not have to work. I guess I just don't quite understand why everything doesn't stay open as long as you're going to eventually pay people. I do understand that there are people who live paycheck-to-paycheck and have to take other jobs. I am so angry about the shutdown I can't even say, but it seems like the government is making everything even worse by not allowing people to work and do their jobs. What you just wrote doesn’t sound similar to what you first wrote. Then, it seemed like you thought that the furloughed workers themselves were in the wrong for being paid. The onus was on them, exactly as if they had chosen not to work. From the perspective of a government-employee household, my husband has lived through many shutdowns. He was always considered essential; others in his office were not. So, in fact, the working people ended up ALSO doing the work of the non-working people. (Cause it’s always the administrative assistants, who actually run everything, who are furloughed, leaving everybody clueless.) I never heard my husband grouse about the furloughed people. Nor did he ever say he should get a bonus. It’s your right, of course, to think differently, but it might help to learn that your views about the choices/privileges of the furloughed workers are not necessarily shared by those affected - possibly because the furloughed peers often hold lower-paying jobs and are under greater financial stress. Yeah, they sit home, but they sit home worrying. (Actually, my husband is now a contractual employee, so IS getting paid, as his gig is still funded. He is presently out of the country, working with a team of people from different agencies. Some are getting paid; some aren’t. I doubt they care. I think they just put their heads down and do the job. Which is more than I can say for the people running our country right now.)
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melissa
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 3,912
Jun 25, 2014 20:45:00 GMT
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Post by melissa on Jan 19, 2019 19:21:04 GMT
The whole thing, like pretty much every government shut down before this one, is, in my humble not so educated about government opinion, stupid!
This particular shut down, for this length of time, is costing us all more money in the end.
I do not care whether you are conservative, liberal or apathetic. You have a job that you can do, you work for us, the tax payers... you should be able to go and do that job and get paid for what you do. It's not like this is a shut down because the money isn't there. It's because the POTUS wants something funded that no person with intelligence and foresight wants to fund. (Sorry if I insulted your intelligence if you are pro-wall. It's medieval, will take a good decade or more to build and won't solve the illegal immigration issue because the vast majority simply overstay their welcome. Want to put money into that instead? Go ahead. I'll support that).
I think Congress needs to pass a law to prevent this sort of nonsense again no matter who the president is. Perhaps that is a politically naive thought, but it's no where naive as thinking a wall on only one border is going to solve anything. My heart goes out to those who are affected by this insanity.
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Post by mikklynn on Jan 19, 2019 19:26:11 GMT
It's a fair question for discussion. I do think they should get back pay. They didn't volunteer to take unpaid time off.
I also think those who are working without pay should be compensated, perhaps with additional paid time off.
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sassyangel
Drama Llama
Posts: 7,456
Jun 26, 2014 23:58:32 GMT
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Post by sassyangel on Jan 19, 2019 19:41:39 GMT
It wasn't time off by their choice though. They were forced into it by virtue of their job being deemed non-essential. I have no problem with them being paid.
Seems super harsh to force them to take it with no pay.
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sassyangel
Drama Llama
Posts: 7,456
Jun 26, 2014 23:58:32 GMT
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Post by sassyangel on Jan 19, 2019 19:44:07 GMT
The whole thing, like pretty much every government shut down before this one, is, in my humble not so educated about government opinion, stupid! This particular shut down, for this length of time, is costing us all more money in the end. I do not care whether you are conservative, liberal or apathetic. You have a job that you can do, you work for us, the tax payers... you should be able to go and do that job and get paid for what you do. It's not like this is a shut down because the money isn't there. It's because the POTUS wants something funded that no person with intelligence and foresight wants to fund. (Sorry if I insulted your intelligence if you are pro-wall. It's medieval, will take a good decade or more to build and won't solve the illegal immigration issue because the vast majority simply overstay their welcome. Want to put money into that instead? Go ahead. I'll support that). I think Congress needs to pass a law to prevent this sort of nonsense again no matter who the president is. Perhaps that is a politically naive thought, but it's no where naive as thinking a wall on only one border is going to solve anything. My heart goes out to those who are affected by this insanity. I could get on board with that. Currently, the only people who are punished by them, are the federal workers.
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Post by hop2 on Jan 19, 2019 19:49:51 GMT
1. Some of them can NOT have a 2nd job without prior approval due to conflict of interest laws- there’s no one around to approve your interim job isn’t a conflict so you could be disciplined for taking a job if you could find one. 2. Most are ineligible to apply for unemployment. 3. Non of this is thier choice
So yes I think they should be paid wtf else are they supposed to do? Loose a months sakary becausecpokiticians are tempertantruming?
I do agree this working without pay do deserve something in thanks but I also know they’ll never get it.
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Post by yivit on Jan 19, 2019 19:57:00 GMT
I want to add something to this (yes they should get paid because it's not their fault they aren't working, and NOBODY that I know - and I know a lot being a contractor; plus those contractors who are furloughed aren't covered under this pay deal btw). We wouldn't BE in a shutdown yet again if those in DC would do their JOB and pass appropriations bills before the start of the fiscal year.
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Post by Really Red on Jan 19, 2019 21:26:28 GMT
I’m having a really hard time seeing how anyone could think of this as a “vacation”. That word must mean something different to you than it does to me. Please show me who is using the word vacation. I know I absolutely did not and do not think of it like that. When you say things like this myshelly, you instigate problems that do not exist. I am trying to understand clearly. I am sick about the shutdown. I am angry about it. I am frustrated at the President's decision not to negotiate. I am sympathetic to people who live paycheck to paycheck and are stuck in a horrible situation that will affect them for a long time to come. What I did not understand completely was it wasn't people calling out "sick." Down here in the south, all we hear is that people are calling out "sick." I know that some places closed down, but I guess I didn't completely understand it all. That's why I came here. To ask questions and to learn. AmeliaBloomer I am learning and I hope growing with considered comments from Peas. When people attack others, those others shut down. I was asking my questions to learn and asking them as best I could. I was NOT blaming anyone at any time except a President who refuses to compromise. I just see that there are a lot of people working without pay and others who are not working. Again, I didn't realize (with the exception of some obvious things, like parks, etc.) that government buildings were actually shut down.
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Post by Really Red on Jan 19, 2019 21:28:13 GMT
It wasn't time off by their choice though. They were forced into it by virtue of their job being deemed non-essential. I have no problem with them being paid. Seems super harsh to force them to take it with no pay. Just to clarify, I was not suggesting they didn't get back pay, although I see it looks like that's what I said . I just didn't understand why some people had to work and others didn't have to. It didn't seem fair to those who have to work with no pay.
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Post by yivit on Jan 19, 2019 21:35:57 GMT
Really Red - here's where they're getting it. HOWEVER, it seems like "vacation" because they aren't working. Even then, that's not how it was intended (I don't think). I *do* know that we contractors sort of feel that way because government workers don't take a hit on their PTO but we do during this. We *know* it's not really a vacation, but it shows up that way in the benefits. Let's hope that they DO talk and come to a compromise on everything this week and get the government back open for business.
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Post by scrapsotime on Jan 19, 2019 22:06:27 GMT
It wasn't time off by their choice though. They were forced into it by virtue of their job being deemed non-essential. I have no problem with them being paid. Seems super harsh to force them to take it with no pay. Just to clarify, I was not suggesting they didn't get back pay, although I see it looks like that's what I said . I just didn't understand why some people had to work and others didn't have to. It didn't seem fair to those who have to work with no pay. I don't think it's fair to any of them. They shouldn't be used as pawns.
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Post by craftmepink on Jan 19, 2019 22:12:00 GMT
What is really unfair is that fed workers and contractors are being held hostage. All the feds and contractors I know WANT to work. We think the shut down is ridiculous and such a waste of time and money.
I'm a contractor and this is in no way a vacation for me. And federal contractors do not get back pay. I'm really stressed out all the time and thinking about how I will pay my bills if the shutdown lasts longer than a month. I constantly check the news to see if there are any updates (and usually there's no news because both sides won't budge).
I also have 0 leave left (no sick days and no PTO days since basically I had to use them all for this stupid shutdown). So, yes I am pissed off.
Hopefully, they get it together and come up with a compromise because we are about to enter week 5 of this nonsense.
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