ComplicatedLady
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 3,037
Location: Valley of the Sun
Jul 26, 2014 21:02:07 GMT
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Post by ComplicatedLady on Jan 21, 2019 5:57:38 GMT
What can white people do to help? Decenter whiteness. Examine white supremacy in action. Avoid defensiveness. Read widely, especially works by BIPOC (black and indigenous people of color). Read history books not written by white men. Examine our own biases and work to do better. Call out and challenge our own, especially our elected folks at all levels and spiritual leaders. If you’re interested in reading indigenous voices, here is a good start : Thank you so much for sharing this tweet. I've added a couple of these to my Kindle. Agreed. Thanks SockMonkeyI’m saving this to go through later.
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Post by lesserknownpea on Jan 21, 2019 9:42:00 GMT
/photo/2 Statement from the schoolboy. Someone wrote this to try to explain what was captured on that video. But you can’t explain away that smug smirk. I find this very disingenuous.
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Post by gillyp on Jan 21, 2019 10:22:23 GMT
I quite agree lesserknownpea. This is damage limitation, not an honest account imo.
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Deleted
Posts: 0
Mar 28, 2024 18:28:08 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Jan 21, 2019 11:09:46 GMT
I think it's far more likely that the tweet posted by fuji up thread(page 5) is what happened and not any snippets of video depending on who's side one is on, or the damage limitation statement given by one of the boys or one of their mothers.The tweet makes far more sense than all the other reports/statements I've read. Black Hebrew Israelites were preaching " hate". A crowd of Catholic Schoolboys decided to start heckling them rather than ignore them and walk on by. Mr Phillips, as a past veteran could see how this could manifest into something far bigger( and possibly turn violent) than just heckling decided to, peacefully by chanting and drumming, stand between the boys and the BHI's in an attempt to defuse the situation. It didn't work,the boys started to heckle even more and defiantly stared Mr Phillips in the face with that smirk of a look as if to say " try and stop us"
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Post by tracyarts on Jan 21, 2019 12:12:23 GMT
Oh for fuck's sake. These young men aren't "children". They are young adults.
They're old enough to drive, old enough to work at jobs operating potentially dangerous equipment, and in the process of transitioning into legal adulthood.
We do not allow "children" to drive. We do not hand the keys to one ton projectiles to "children". We, however give this responsibility to young adults.
We do not allow "children" to work in fast food. We do not place "children" in charge of 50 gallon vats of boiling oil and searing hot sheets of steel. We, however give this opportunity to young adults.
We do not allow "children" to wander around in groups without direct supervision, to go on dates without chaperones, and to move freely within the community without adult guidance. We, however give this right to young adults.
I saw NO "children" in those video clips. I saw young men and adults.
And I have absolutely NO issue with and will go on record saying that if someone is old enough to drive, work, and rape young women (as at least one of their classmates is shown to have), they are old enough to get punched in the face for being an offensive piece of shit.
They can't be old enough to enjoy adult responsibilities, but too young to be held accountable for their actions. It doesn't work that way. We can't coddle them as "children" when they fuck up.
Is their rapist classmate also a "child"?.
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pyccku
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 2,817
Jun 27, 2014 23:12:07 GMT
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Post by pyccku on Jan 21, 2019 13:24:55 GMT
White kids this age are just children, not to be held accountable.
Black kids this age are adults, and threats that must be dealt with harshly.
Isn’t that the way it seems to work?
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Post by tracyarts on Jan 21, 2019 13:30:33 GMT
White boys are "children", black and brown boys are "youths". Or "juveniles". White kids this age are just children, not to be held accountable. Black kids this age are adults, and threats that must be dealt with harshly. Isn’t that the way it seems to work?
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Post by librarylady on Jan 21, 2019 14:14:04 GMT
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Deleted
Posts: 0
Mar 28, 2024 18:28:08 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Jan 21, 2019 14:24:55 GMT
"Smug privilege" - yeah. That.
Imagine if this young man had been taught respect and kindness and all the stuff many Christians love to talk about but so many have a hard time DOING - instead of being taught to react with smug privilege. He would have flashed a peace sign and no confrontation would have ensued.
I also agree that death threats have no place in our society. I'm sure Mr. Phillips has received them too. Death threats seem to be the first reaction of idiots.
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imsirius
Prolific Pea
Call it as I see it.
Posts: 7,661
Location: Floating in the black veil.
Jul 12, 2014 19:59:28 GMT
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Post by imsirius on Jan 21, 2019 14:33:03 GMT
This makes me sick. If that was my child, I would be so angry and humiliated. They are from a Catholic school? What are they learning? The mother posted that they were jeering black muslims....oh that's SO MUCH better. SMDH.
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Nanner
Drama Llama
Posts: 5,942
Jun 25, 2014 23:13:23 GMT
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Post by Nanner on Jan 21, 2019 14:45:01 GMT
That "child" did NOT write that statement.
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basketdiva
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 3,607
Member is Online
Jun 26, 2014 11:45:09 GMT
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Post by basketdiva on Jan 21, 2019 15:13:46 GMT
The video I watched showed Nathan Phillips walking up to the teen and the teen did not move. and whatever on the teen moving or not he could have just stood there and this wouldn't have been a thing. It was the yelling with the smirk that made this go viral. At any point the teens could have and should have walked away I agree it was the smirk that went viral and the teens were out of line in their actions but accusing that teenager of walking up to and confronting Phillips is incorrect ( from the videos I've watched). Yes the teens should have walked away and the chaperones should have gotten those students under control long before that picture was taken.
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Deleted
Posts: 0
Mar 28, 2024 18:28:08 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Jan 21, 2019 15:22:59 GMT
Covington players in black dress and blackface. Yeah, just a bunch of kind Christian boys.
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Post by gillyp on Jan 21, 2019 16:05:21 GMT
Classy.
No matter what the time line leading to the confrontation, there is nothing to take away from the fact that the boys were arrogant, insolent, intimidating and racist in much of their behaviour.
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AmeliaBloomer
Drama Llama
Posts: 6,842
Location: USA
Jun 26, 2014 5:01:45 GMT
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Post by AmeliaBloomer on Jan 21, 2019 16:23:39 GMT
Along the vein of "where were the adults/why didn't the adults move the young men along/etc.", why did the diocese of Covington send students from the Catholic boys' high school to the anti-choice march promoting taking control over women's bodies, yet not send young women from the Catholic girls' high school down the street? Because.................................. They don't count Did you read what that priest from the school said about the unattractive women there...... TheOtherMeg and revirdsuba99 , keeping in mind that I’m not being an apologist, just a pedant... Since this is the world I grew up in, the first thing I did when I read this story was google these schools to see who runs them. Answer: The boys’ school is run by the diocese and the girls’ school by the Sisters of Notre Dame. (So, independent, but they still have to toe the line with the diocese doctrinally.) But I haven’t read enough to know whether it was a school-initiated trip or if the diocese decided to send the group. I am not at all dismissing the dangerous culture that can thrive in some Catholic boys’ schools (BELIEVE me), but I think school “ownership” is a distinction to note when people are speculating about why the girls did not participate. [And I feel compelled to add that I went to a girls’ school run by an order of nuns, and, despite many regrets about my education, I attended during a time when my raging second-wave feminism was shared - and encouraged - by many of my teachers. I never once felt that we girls didn’t count. In fact, we mattered very much, which is the fundamental beauty of all-girl schools. Did the boys at their own school agree? Doubtful. But this wide disparity in respect of females is the ultimate irony when discussing the PROs/CONs of same-sex education, whether Catholic or not. Okay, ramble over.]
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Post by SockMonkey on Jan 21, 2019 16:44:12 GMT
Because.................................. They don't count Did you read what that priest from the school said about the unattractive women there...... TheOtherMeg and revirdsuba99 , keeping in mind that I’m not being an apologist, just a pedant... Since this is the world I grew up in, the first thing I did when I read this story was google these schools to see who runs them. Answer: The boys’ school is run by the diocese and the girls’ school by the Sisters of Notre Dame. (So, independent, but they still have to toe the line with the diocese doctrinally.) But I haven’t read enough to know whether it was a school-initiated trip or if the diocese decided to send the group. I am not at all dismissing the dangerous culture that can thrive in some Catholic boys’ schools (BELIEVE me), but I think school “ownership” is a distinction to note when people are speculating about why the girls did not participate. [And I feel compelled to add that I went to a girls’ school run by an order of nuns, and, despite many regrets about my education, I attended during a time when my raging second-wave feminism was shared - and encouraged - by many of my teachers. I never once felt that we girls didn’t count. In fact, we mattered very much, which is the fundamental beauty of all-girl schools. Did the boys at their own school agree? Doubtful. But this wide disparity in respect of females is the ultimate irony when discussing the PROs/CONs of same-sex education, whether Catholic or not. Okay, ramble over.] It appears that both schools were there on school-sanctioned trips, with the blessing of the diocese: www.covdio.org/as-pilgrims-plan-to-march-on-the-streets-of-washington-faithful-at-home-encouraged-to-attend-a-holy-hour-for-life/www.ndapandas.org/news/2019/01/19/notre-dame-academy-students-march-for-life.aspxThe Covington Catholic site is offline, but a Google search gives a preview:
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The Great Carpezio
Pearl Clutcher
Something profound goes here.
Posts: 2,883
Jun 25, 2014 21:50:33 GMT
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Post by The Great Carpezio on Jan 21, 2019 16:46:33 GMT
Certainly, like 90% of the issues presented today, there is no simple story. There was a perfect storm brewing that is, sadly, representative of our larger American society, and no one is exempt from confirmation bias and perception. All of us see things through our own lenses. It’s hard to see innocence while wearing a MAGA hat.
However, I stand by what I said before. There was ugly behavior going on, and these young men fed off and contributed to it. I have to wonder how this would have gone down if
a. Instead of a N.A drummer, it was a 68 year old white veteran or priest that came in singing a catholic hymn? Pretty sure those smirks and mocking wouldn’t not have occurred
b. If that smirking boy and the 99% Of the crowd was black and the diffuser was white, how the narrative would have shifted.
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LeaP
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 3,939
Location: Los Angeles, CA where 405 meets 101
Jun 26, 2014 23:17:22 GMT
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Post by LeaP on Jan 21, 2019 16:52:27 GMT
/photo/2 Statement from the schoolboy. Someone wrote this to try to explain what was captured on that video. But you can’t explain away that smug smirk. I find this very disingenuous. Agree.
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MizIndependent
Drama Llama
Quit your bullpoop.
Posts: 5,836
Jun 25, 2014 19:43:16 GMT
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Post by MizIndependent on Jan 21, 2019 18:21:00 GMT
This makes me sick. If that was my child, I would be so angry and humiliated. They are from a Catholic school? What are they learning? The mother posted that they were jeering black muslims....oh that's SO MUCH better. SMDH. Actually, as I understand it they were the "Israelite Church of God in Jesus Christ (ICGJC, also Israelite Church-God & Jesus), formerly known as the Israeli Church of Universal Practical Knowledge, is an organization of Black Hebrew Israelites. The Southern Poverty Law Center has designated the ICGJC as an active hate group." [ Source 1, Source 2] They are known to be very similar to Westboro Baptist Church. It has the full video (1 hr, 46 min) for anyone interested in seeing the ICGJC in action.
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Post by SockMonkey on Jan 21, 2019 18:55:35 GMT
The mother posted that they were jeering black muslims....oh that's SO MUCH better. SMDH. Actually, as I understand it they were the "Israelite Church of God in Jesus Christ (ICGJC, also Israelite Church-God & Jesus), formerly known as the Israeli Church of Universal Practical Knowledge, is an organization of Black Hebrew Israelites. The Southern Poverty Law Center has designated the ICGJC as an active hate group." [ Source 1, Source 2] They are known to be very similar to Westboro Baptist Church. It has the full video (1 hr, 46 min) for anyone interested in seeing the ICGJC in action.
Yivit posted the longer video earlier in the thread. Nathan Phillips was on NPR this morning and compared the group to the Westboro Baptist Church as well.
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Post by peatlejuice on Jan 21, 2019 19:50:37 GMT
First: That smirk is anything but confused. Eff that awful young man and his equally awful parents for trying to pawn off his behavior as confused and an attempt to de-escalate. Also, he saw groups making a path for Phillips and chose to block him. That's not confusion. Seriously, eff that kid.
Second: I don't care if the Black Hebrew hate group started jeering at those kids first or not. It was absolutely inappropriate for them to do so, but two wrongs don't make a right (and any parent or school worth a damn shod have taught those kids that). By chanting and jeering back at the Black Hebrews, they lose all rights to claim they were confused, scared,anything other than arrogant young men asserting their smug white privilege.
Third: By that young man's own admission, the trip "chaperones" encouraged and gave these brats permission to engage with these groups. Does the Catholic church not follow the "turn the other cheek" mantra encouraged in the Bible?
Gah, I'm just so sick of white male fragility.
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Post by papercrafteradvocate on Jan 21, 2019 20:16:24 GMT
The schools problem is systemic...
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Post by papercrafteradvocate on Jan 21, 2019 20:31:55 GMT
/photo/2 Statement from the schoolboy. Someone wrote this to try to explain what was captured on that video. But you can’t explain away that smug smirk. I find this very disingenuous. Hell, Brett Kavanaugh v2
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Deleted
Posts: 0
Mar 28, 2024 18:28:08 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Jan 21, 2019 21:17:16 GMT
No matter what happened here, the ensuing mob mentality of pitchforks and torches before you know all the facts is going to get someone hurt or even killed. A kid and his family in Ohio are being physically threatened and having their business and lives ruined because he "resembled" the kid in the video. He wasn't even there.
His brother tweeted 1) Yesterday was supposed to be a day of celebration for my middle brother Alex, who got married last night. Instead my family had to deal with the fallout of my youngest brother #MichaelHodge being falsely accused for standing & smiling in front of an indigenous man with a drum 2) People then proceeded to spam my family with harassments and threats of physical violence. We then find out our parents address was posted online. If that wasn't enough, our family operated business has been slandered and attacked. 3) No one reviews evidence or does any due diligence, they immediately escalate things to a state of frenzy over much of nothing. The zealots scream for the head of #MichaelHodge knowing that their will be zero consequences to them if anything happens to him 4) My parents, uncles, & aunts, receive messages stating they are pieces of shit parents and won't be able to protect #MichaelHodge forever... seriously what kind of behavior is this?
Celebrities tweeting & demanding to know who this kid is and he should be held accountable just gets the crazies riled up and put into action. Do they have any accountability?
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Post by Merge on Jan 21, 2019 21:27:52 GMT
Another video has surfaced.
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Post by SockMonkey on Jan 21, 2019 21:28:30 GMT
No matter what happened here, the ensuing mob mentality of pitchforks and torches before you know all the facts is going to get someone hurt or even killed. A kid and his family in Ohio are being physically threatened and having their business and lives ruined because he "resembled" the kid in the video. He wasn't even there. His brother tweeted 1) Yesterday was supposed to be a day of celebration for my middle brother Alex, who got married last night. Instead my family had to deal with the fallout of my youngest brother #MichaelHodge being falsely accused for standing & smiling in front of an indigenous man with a drum 2) People then proceeded to spam my family with harassments and threats of physical violence. We then find out our parents address was posted online. If that wasn't enough, our family operated business has been slandered and attacked. 3) No one reviews evidence or does any due diligence, they immediately escalate things to a state of frenzy over much of nothing. The zealots scream for the head of #MichaelHodge knowing that their will be zero consequences to them if anything happens to him 4) My parents, uncles, & aunts, receive messages stating they are pieces of shit parents and won't be able to protect #MichaelHodge forever... seriously what kind of behavior is this? Celebrities tweeting & demanding to know who this kid is and he should be held accountable just gets the crazies riled up and put into action. Do they have any accountability? I agree with you that doxxing/mistaken identity is dangerous. For white boys, it can mean they can't celebrate their brother's wedding. For black boys, it can mean they get shot by police.
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Deleted
Posts: 0
Mar 28, 2024 18:28:08 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Jan 21, 2019 21:43:25 GMT
No matter what happened here, the ensuing mob mentality of pitchforks and torches before you know all the facts is going to get someone hurt or even killed. A kid and his family in Ohio are being physically threatened and having their business and lives ruined because he "resembled" the kid in the video. He wasn't even there. His brother tweeted 1) Yesterday was supposed to be a day of celebration for my middle brother Alex, who got married last night. Instead my family had to deal with the fallout of my youngest brother #MichaelHodge being falsely accused for standing & smiling in front of an indigenous man with a drum 2) People then proceeded to spam my family with harassments and threats of physical violence. We then find out our parents address was posted online. If that wasn't enough, our family operated business has been slandered and attacked. 3) No one reviews evidence or does any due diligence, they immediately escalate things to a state of frenzy over much of nothing. The zealots scream for the head of #MichaelHodge knowing that their will be zero consequences to them if anything happens to him 4) My parents, uncles, & aunts, receive messages stating they are pieces of shit parents and won't be able to protect #MichaelHodge forever... seriously what kind of behavior is this? Celebrities tweeting & demanding to know who this kid is and he should be held accountable just gets the crazies riled up and put into action. Do they have any accountability? I agree with you that doxxing/mistaken identity is dangerous. For white boys, it can mean they can't celebrate their brother's wedding. For black boys, it can mean they get shot by police. They were threatened with violence with their address revealed giving crazy people a literal road map to carry it out and your answer is that they only had to worry about a wedding? and if it was a black kid the police would come and shoot him for what they perceived in the video? Seriously?
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Post by SockMonkey on Jan 21, 2019 21:55:12 GMT
I agree with you that doxxing/mistaken identity is dangerous. For white boys, it can mean they can't celebrate their brother's wedding. For black boys, it can mean they get shot by police. They were threatened with violence with their address revealed giving crazy people a literal road map to carry it out and your answer is that they only had to worry about a wedding? and if it was a black kid the police would come and shoot him for what they perceived in the video? Seriously? First of all, I would like you to consider the optics and response if a white man was peacefully protesting and became encircled by a group of black students behaving like those boys did. Consider what the response would be. Consider what police response would be. Secondly, I am talking about in general when I am talking about the mistaken identity of black and white folks and the impact that has.
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Deleted
Posts: 0
Mar 28, 2024 18:28:08 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Jan 21, 2019 22:04:01 GMT
They were threatened with violence with their address revealed giving crazy people a literal road map to carry it out and your answer is that they only had to worry about a wedding? and if it was a black kid the police would come and shoot him for what they perceived in the video? Seriously? First of all, I would like you to consider the optics and response if a white man was peacefully protesting and became encircled by a group of black students behaving like those boys did. Consider what the response would be. Consider what police response would be. Secondly, I am talking about in general when I am talking about the mistaken identity of black and white folks and the impact that has. That isn't what happened and this isn't "in general" it's a very specific event that happened in a very specific way. Your what if and what about response to what mob mentality has done in this very specific case says it all.
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Post by Skellinton on Jan 21, 2019 22:08:09 GMT
Another video has surfaced. Good lord. Those youung men are the epitome of disrespectful and ignorant, aren’t they? Everyone defending those assholes needs to see this video. They are mocking him and anyone who claims differently is just as wrong as those students and likely just as racist and horrible as those young men.
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