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Post by leftturnonly on Jan 25, 2019 10:23:36 GMT
Mags hats are the current version of the confederate flag. In your opinion, but not in the opinion of a lot of people who wear those hats. There is an enormous difference there between what you think people stand for and what they actually do stand for. The confederate flag was created in the 1860's as a symbol of division. The Make America Great Again hats were created in the 2016's as a symbol of unity. Whether you see it that way or not, please understand that there are millions of your fellow Americans who do.
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Post by papercrafteradvocate on Jan 25, 2019 10:29:31 GMT
So, just celebrities? Because I see/hear hate all over comments sections (where brain cells go to die) and IRL from the right but I don't tend to ever hear that from liberals. *sigh* No, not just from celebrities. And if you aren't hearing it, then it's simply not registering as being wrong to you. Which means you agree with it. Right back at ya! You absolutely refuse—after YOU ASKED—to see the truth that your liberal counterparts have provided. They WERE NOT attacks towards nor were they “hate” as you’ve labeled it. They are real, bonafide facts and reality. Then you got your panties in a twist and stomped off declaring us deaf—no one has disputed the examples you’ve given, they answered YOUR question with examples in return. Heed your own advice—“if you’re not hearing it, then it’s simply not registering being wrong to you. Which means you agree with it.”
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Post by papercrafteradvocate on Jan 25, 2019 10:35:08 GMT
Mags hats are the current version of the confederate flag. In your opinion, but not in the opinion of a lot of people who wear those hats. There is an enormous difference there between what you think people stand for and what they actually do stand for. The confederate flag was created in the 1860's as a symbol of division. The Make America Great Again hats were created in the 2016's as a symbol of unity. Whether you see it that way or not, please understand that there are millions of your fellow Americans who do. I gave my opinion based on what I hear and see. I would LOVE for it to be proven wrong. And I’ve yet to see ANYWHERE that this 2016 creation of the hats “symbolizing unity” is actually doing that. It’s been quite the opposite—and that is not just my opinion, it’s factually backed up by trump’s Twitter account.
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Post by sabrinae on Jan 25, 2019 11:49:56 GMT
Oh, I don’t know, but bombs being sent to President Obama, Vice President Biden, Hilary Clinton, George Soros, CNN, etc.. seems a comparable example. Thankfully the bombs didn’t go off, doesn’t make the intent any less than what happened on that ball field. Not okay at ALL, but it seems we have a payback mentality going on here. Does that not disturb you? Your the one that said there weren’t any similar examples from the right. Maybe you should take a look at your own role here? You certainly aren’t expressing any concerns regarding behaviors from the right here. You say you can’t even identify concerns from the right.
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Post by sabrinae on Jan 25, 2019 11:54:23 GMT
I wasn’t going to get involved in this thread, but this statement is pure insanity and I cannot stay silent. Sure, you’re right, these shootings were not on the same scale, but not the way you apparently mean. 20 people were shot and six were killed (including a child), and the Congresswoman was permanently and severely disabled, at the Gifford event. In what way is that not as horrific as the Scalise shooting? And that’s aside from the fact that you’re the one who asked for examples of comparable events. Really? I guess I might be feeling sensitive, too, if my argument was so weak. My point, very clumsily made, is that hate is not the answer and never can be. Look around and see where that is getting us. Nowhere good, that's for sure. If we don't want more of the same, we have be to willing to do something different. Perhaps listen to each other and find common ground? What a novel idea. Listening. Compromising. Coming together. That’s not what your doing here. Your throwing all the blame at the “left”. Maybe you should work on cleaning up “your side” before you start throwing all the blame at the left
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Post by leftturnonly on Jan 25, 2019 12:26:06 GMT
I gave my opinion based on what I hear and see. I understand that. You believe what you hear. And what exactly is it that you hear? Media Trump Hatred Shows In 92% Negative Coverage Of His Presidency - Investor's Business Daily The media’s hatred of Trump is only hurting itself - The New York Times Evan Siegfried Media bias against conservatives is real, and part of the reason no one trusts the news now - NBC News Overwhelmingly, what is to be heard are the biased opinions that support the beliefs of the people who are supposed to be giving the news, just the news and nothing but the news. And frankly, very rarely do they say anything that remotely applies to people like me, yet I am mocked and condemned so regularly that I don't think most of y'all are even aware of it, because you consider such a generalized denigration A OK. It's not OK. It is not OK to unquestionably consider all people who support any goal of this administration as homophobic, xenophobic, misogynistic, uneducated, drooling nitwits. Good Lord. Some of us want our borders secured. Here's a few of them....
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Post by leftturnonly on Jan 25, 2019 13:08:05 GMT
To give some perspective here, actual contemporary coverage of the rise of Mussolini and Hitler were not American media's finest hour - Smithsonian. Our infallible press. Germans who resisted Hitler and the Nazis --- Biography online To date, just exactly how many people have been imprisoned and condemned to death for speaking out against this administration by our current legally elected and seated president of the United States? To listen to the majority of the what is publicized as political news here in America today, we are right now in the very heart and soul of equivalent evil. No rights are secure. Hate runs rampant. We are destroying ourselves. Sorry, but I'm not sorry for the lengthy posts. This was a thread asking about right leaning peas and after reading more reflexively-made inane comments, I decided to speak up.
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Post by iamkristinl16 on Jan 25, 2019 13:29:09 GMT
Mags hats are the current version of the confederate flag. In your opinion, but not in the opinion of a lot of people who wear those hats. There is an enormous difference there between what you think people stand for and what they actually do stand for. The confederate flag was created in the 1860's as a symbol of division. The Make America Great Again hats were created in the 2016's as a symbol of unity. Whether you see it that way or not, please understand that there are millions of your fellow Americans who do. There are people who say the confederate flag just looks cool and for them doesn’t represent racism. That doesn’t change its meaning to the general public. Saying that the MAGA hats represent unity is a simplistic response. Just like in another thread it was said that the hats show support for trump. Sure. But they also represent the policies that trump has put into place (or tried to in some cases) and his statements that are racist, sexist, discriminatory, and full of hate and lies. Wearing those hats is not like flashing the peace sign. If people don’t want others to think that they are all of the things listed above, they shouldn’t wear the hat. That is based on trumps actual words that come out of his mouth or on Twitter, and the words of his supporters. Not the media.
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Post by pierkiss on Jan 25, 2019 13:50:50 GMT
This is at least the third time I’m specifically asking you this: ideologically, what characterizes the “radical left”? I haven’t gotten any answer before, so if any of the 11 of you who LIKEd this stance is willing, I would appreciate learning what you considered “radical left” to mean when you agreed with it. I’m honestly curious - and this is not the only poster here I have asked this question of who hasn’t replied. (Carp, that was a radically bad sentence.) I’ve asked it of at least four people here and none has ever replied. I’ve also asked what people mean when they write that the Democratic Party has moved alarmingly Left - and also not received any reply. (Note: normally wouldn’t interrupt a thread like this, but I am mystified why this continues to be a claim without explanation, so thought I’d try here. Full disclosure, I have more than once written here about my beliefs about the history and progression of Rightward movement in the Republican Party since the 1970s, but again: wrong thread for that. I just wanted to establish that I am personally willing to explain my own claims about shifting political ideology.) I consider the radical left to be those who fully embrace socialism. Ocasio-Cortez is a good example. It's worrisome to me because socialism can easily go extreme and quickly turn into communism. I don't want that for my country which is founded on freedom, not force.. Thank you for answering!
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Post by leftturnonly on Jan 25, 2019 13:57:13 GMT
There are people who say the confederate flag just looks cool and for them doesn’t represent racism. That doesn’t change its meaning to the general public. Saying that the MAGA hats represent unity is a simplistic response. Just like in another thread it was said that the hats show support for trump. Sure. But they also represent the policies that trump has put into place (or tried to in some cases) and his statements that are racist, sexist, discriminatory, and full of hate and lies. Wearing those hats is not like flashing the peace sign. If people don’t want others to think that they are all of the things listed above, they shouldn’t wear the hat. That is based on trumps actual words that come out of his mouth or on Twitter, and the words of his supporters. Not the media. There is a history of roughly 155 years for the Confederate flag that was created in an attempt to dissolve the union of the United States. Make American Great Again hats, first produced in 2016 by presidential candidate Donald Trump, is a campaign slogan that happens to resonant with a significant part of our population, some of whom protested the 58,220 Americans who died in the Vietnam War and want a serious border to fight against *72,000+ deaths from drug overdoses. *that number is from 2017. 2018's total will be higher. Some of us actually consider this a problem. Teenagers who couldn't even tell you what century the Civil War was fought and think the Confederate flag looks cool is the comparison you think applicable? Well, OK then. You're allowed to think that. You will not be arrested and neither will your family for stating that opinion here in public.
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Post by Merge on Jan 25, 2019 14:18:37 GMT
There are people who say the confederate flag just looks cool and for them doesn’t represent racism. That doesn’t change its meaning to the general public. Saying that the MAGA hats represent unity is a simplistic response. Just like in another thread it was said that the hats show support for trump. Sure. But they also represent the policies that trump has put into place (or tried to in some cases) and his statements that are racist, sexist, discriminatory, and full of hate and lies. Wearing those hats is not like flashing the peace sign. If people don’t want others to think that they are all of the things listed above, they shouldn’t wear the hat. That is based on trumps actual words that come out of his mouth or on Twitter, and the words of his supporters. Not the media. There is a history of roughly 155 years for the Confederate flag that was created in an attempt to dissolve the union of the United States. Make American Great Again hats, first produced in 2016 by presidential candidate Donald Trump, is a campaign slogan that happens to resonant with a significant part of our population, some of whom protested the 58,220 Americans who died in the Vietnam War and want a serious border to fight against *72,000+ deaths from drug overdoses. *that number is from 2017. 2018's total will be higher. Some of us actually consider this a problem What evidence do you have that a wall will stop the flow of drugs over the border? It's been my understanding that most are smuggled in through legal ports of entry. www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2019/01/16/fact-check-mike-pence-donald-trump-drugs-crossing-southern-border-wall/2591279002/www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/article/2019/jan/24/fact-checking-donald-trumps-false-and-misleading-c/www.factcheck.org/2017/08/will-trumps-wall-stop-drug-smuggling/This is an especially interesting read: www.texastribune.org/2018/01/25/texas-smugglers-say-trumps-border-wall-wouldnt-stop-immigrants-drugs-p/Why not spend $5B on better drug detection equipment and more agents, instead of a wall that won't solve the problem? I'll bet you all my meager paycheck that House and Senate Democrats would leap to vote for that - because many of them have suggested it. See, we also consider this a problem. But we're interested in spending money on solutions that may actually work, instead of spending the money to ruin the Texas border with a giant monument to Trump's ego. When you're defending those who wear MAGA hats, you might go back and look through some of the video of campaign rallies at which people were wearing them. Rallies at which people chanted for Trump to lock up a political opponent, cheered when he described immigrants as rapists and murderers, cheered when he mocked a disabled reporter, surrounded and threatened media members doing their jobs, cheered and laughed when he used racist and sexist language to describe opponents, and cheered when he told blatant and obvious lies. Not just once, but over and over again until these things were a feature at every rally he led. It is disingenuous at best to pretend that people wearing those hats are just signaling their virtuous desire to end drug overdoses. The hat is forever entwined with the racist, sexist, lying nature of the man who made them popular.
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Post by papercrafteradvocate on Jan 25, 2019 14:55:48 GMT
I gave my opinion based on what I hear and see. I understand that. You believe what you hear. And what exactly is it that you hear? Media Trump Hatred Shows In 92% Negative Coverage Of His Presidency - Investor's Business Daily The media’s hatred of Trump is only hurting itself - The New York Times Evan Siegfried Media bias against conservatives is real, and part of the reason no one trusts the news now - NBC News Overwhelmingly, what is to be heard are the biased opinions that support the beliefs of the people who are supposed to be giving the news, just the news and nothing but the news. And frankly, very rarely do they say anything that remotely applies to people like me, yet I am mocked and condemned so regularly that I don't think most of y'all are even aware of it, because you consider such a generalized denigration A OK. It's not OK. It is not OK to unquestionably consider all people who support any goal of this administration as homophobic, xenophobic, misogynistic, uneducated, drooling nitwits. Good Lord. Some of us want our borders secured. Here's a few of them.... <iframe width="10.600000000000023" height="6.899999999999977" style="position: absolute; width: 10.6px; height: 6.9px; z-index: -9999; border-style: none; left: 5px; top: 3555px;" id="MoatPxIOPT0_95343717" scrolling="no"></iframe> <iframe width="10.600000000000023" height="6.899999999999977" style="position: absolute; width: 10.6px; height: 6.9px; z-index: -9999; border-style: none; left: 473px; top: 3555px;" id="MoatPxIOPT0_72950026" scrolling="no"></iframe> <iframe width="10.600000000000023" height="6.899999999999977" style="position: absolute; width: 10.6px; height: 6.9px; z-index: -9999; border-style: none; left: 5px; top: 3843px;" id="MoatPxIOPT0_40883197" scrolling="no"></iframe> <iframe width="10.600000000000023" height="6.899999999999977" style="position: absolute; width: 10.6px; height: 6.9px; z-index: -9999; border-style: none; left: 473px; top: 3843px;" id="MoatPxIOPT0_61550096" scrolling="no"></iframe> Sorry, but no, I’m not getting the majority of the news from any one source or just following a group blindly. I get most of what you’re implying as my bias straight from trump, the GOP, White House. It doesn’t take a rocket scientist to read what trump himself puts out on twitter or actually says to reporters. Same with his entourage.
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Post by leftturnonly on Jan 25, 2019 15:04:16 GMT
Sounds like a problem with border security to me. I'm in disagreement that being below the historic high number lessens the significance of the problems created through people criminals who refuse to obey the laws we have enacted to legally protect our country. Texas Criminal Illegal Alien DataSounds like a problem with our border security to me. No, but it is going to deter women and children from making perilous journeys to try to get here. MOST DANGEROUS JOURNEY: WHAT CENTRAL AMERICAN MIGRANTS FACE WHEN THEY TRY TO CROSS THE BORDER -- Amnesty International Sounds like a problem enhanced by problems with our border security to me.
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Deleted
Posts: 0
Apr 20, 2024 6:24:04 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Jan 25, 2019 15:42:57 GMT
Make American Great Again hats, first produced in 2016 by presidential candidate Donald Trump, is a campaign slogan that happens to resonant with a significant part of our population, some of whom protested the 58,220 Americans who died in the Vietnam War and want a serious border to fight against *72,000+ deaths from drug overdoses. *that number is from 2017. 2018's total will be higher. Some of us actually consider this a problem. Teenagers who couldn't even tell you what century the Civil War was fought and think the Confederate flag looks cool is the comparison you think applicable? Well, OK then. You're allowed to think that. You will not be arrested and neither will your family for stating that opinion here in public. A couple of points. 1. MAGA means different things to those who support it. There are those who support it because they believed trump that he could bring back those jobs they lost. You know, the jobs that are never coming back. Some of those who support MAGA/trump now had voted for President Obama thinking that when he talked about change, it meant he could bring those jobs back. To make it just like it was before. Some of those who support MAGA are those who do not want to see this country lose its white majority. trump’s words and actions during the campaign and since he has taken office has brought the white nationalist out from the cess pool they had been hiding in to mainstream America. They believe that trump feels like they do, a kindred spirit. And you have to believe that they may be correct when trump still has Stephen Miller as a senior advisor. One of the very few that is still at the White House today from day one. Some of those who support MAGA are anti-establishment and see trump as an outsider that can “shake things up” and now are ignoring the damage that trump is doing, because he is ,after all, the outsider. 2. Let’s be clear, a “significant” number represents a relatively small number of Americans. 3. As someone who lost friends and classmates in the Vietnam War and was front and center to the demonstrations against the Vietnam War, I highly doubt that those who wear the MAGA hat today would be out demonstrating against the war back then. 4. The notion that if you don’t support a wall at the Southern Border is proof you don’t support eliminating the drug problem is just plain stupid. If trump could wave a magic wand tomorrow and his wall appeared along the entire Southern Border, it would not stop the flow of drugs into this country, in fact I doubt very much it would even slow it down. That is not just me thinking that, it’s based on all kind of studies and reports of how drugs are actually smuggled into this country. What trump is doing is manufacturing a crisis at the Southern Border to suit his agenda of no immigrants, legal or illegal, of color allowed, all the while ignoring the real crisis in this country of too many drugs and too many guns. Real immigration reforn needs to be done, but it’s not the big crisis that trump is trying to sell to the American People. There is no question this country should have secured borders. The key worded here is borders, like more then one. Like three other borders that trump is ignoring.
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Post by leftturnonly on Jan 25, 2019 15:56:34 GMT
When you're defending those who wear MAGA hats, you might go back and look through some of the video of campaign rallies at which people were wearing them. Rallies at which people chanted for Trump to lock up a political opponent, cheered when he described immigrants as rapists and murderers, cheered when he mocked a disabled reporter, surrounded and threatened media members doing their jobs, cheered and laughed when he used racist and sexist language to describe opponents, and cheered when he told blatant and obvious lies. Not just once, but over and over again until these things were a feature at every rally he led. 1) I said that there is a difference in perspectives between many people who wear the clothing and those who denigrate them. If you consider that as defending them, whatever. I really don't care. 2) "Lock her up!" has not resulted in Hillary Clinton being illegally seized and held, despite the calamity that is being portrayed in your statement. Hillary Clinton is as free as she ever has been. Therefore, the chants have had zero effect on any political opponents. There is no threat of her being arrested, or locked up, without due legal proceedings, so the outrage is very hollow to my ears. 3) You win. No criminals, drug dealers or rapists cross our southern border. Mexico does encourage doctors and scientists to defy our laws and cross our border illegally. The Mexican government hands out the old 31 page pamphlet, "Guide for the Mexican Migrant" to these high level achievers just to help them along. 4) All 7 seconds of the horror of Trump's mockery on display, never to be forgotten. Joe Biden's comments about not being allowed go to a 7-11 or Dunkin Donuts without having a slight Indian accent. No one remembers. No one cares. I give them about the same rating of inappropriateness and they are roughly equivalent in length. Hardly representative of actual policies created or supported by either man. And if they aren't discriminating against the disabled or the foreign-born (respectively), neither their private opinions nor my assumptions of their private opinions really matter. 5) Sexist language. He has said truly terrible things. And this is actually a fairly good summation of the fallacy that people support Donald Trump or parts of Trump's agenda because they agree with any or all of these terrible things that you listed. The truth is that people support Donald Trump or parts of his agenda despite those shortcomings because they see him as a man of action trying to implement the policies that they voted him into office to implement. There is a difference between the two that is clear as day to me and as murky as swamp to so many others.
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Dalai Mama
Drama Llama
La Pea Boheme
Posts: 6,985
Jun 26, 2014 0:31:31 GMT
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Post by Dalai Mama on Jan 25, 2019 16:00:19 GMT
I'm in just for the sake of hating bras. If only political affiliation was determined by by the intensity of bra hate. Here on the left, we've seated those who just don't like the darn things. And here on the right, we've seated those who even wear bras to bed. Not sure where that leaves the men. Maybe they could just sit in the middle and be quiet for a while. A bizarro world in which I'm seated on the right (or just don't want to be strangled by my titties in the middle of the night).
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Post by missfrenchjessica on Jan 25, 2019 16:24:50 GMT
I have really thought about how to respond here. If this same exact topic had been posted three years ago, I would have raised my hand as a right leaning pea with no hesitation.
I am no longer a right leaning pea. I don't know what I am exactly. I am not right leaning, or left leaning. I HATE the extremes of both parties. I am middle of the road, I guess. And in this political climate, that is a difficult place to be. I don't really fit in anywhere. I never am sure of what I should post on political threads.
*I have always been for tight immigration laws, but I am definitely against spending billions of $$$ on a wall because I don't think it will solve any of the problems we have with illegal immigrants.
*I am not in favor of socialized medicine, but I do believe we desperately need to find a way to fix our healthcare system.
*I do not believe that people should be discriminated against because of their sexual orientation. This hits very close to home for me.
*I am pro-choice. NOT "pro-abortion." I hope and pray that none of my children will ever have an abortion, but I also hope and pray that there is never a time when we go back to the days of unsafe abortions.
*The 2016 election was one of only 3 times since I was old enough to vote that I did not vote for a Republican president. (The first time I was of age to vote was when I voted for Reagan). I've never been a registered Republican, but I have rarely voted any other party.
I am so disillusioned now. I did not vote for Trump, but when he won, I told myself that the party would rein him in. Checks and balances, ya know? But that hasn't happened, and I have found myself really disillusioned with the Republican party.
I feel lost politically.
Me too@justt...me too...the only thing that differs for me is that 2016 was the second election I did not vote Republican not my third. But I agree with everything else you posted. This is pretty much exactly how my husband feels. Voted Republican pretty much every election and just couldn't vote for Trump. He feels like he's in no-man's-land with the current state of the Republican party. I'm sorry for those who feel like this--it's not a fun place to be.
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Post by Merge on Jan 25, 2019 17:54:37 GMT
When you're defending those who wear MAGA hats, you might go back and look through some of the video of campaign rallies at which people were wearing them. Rallies at which people chanted for Trump to lock up a political opponent, cheered when he described immigrants as rapists and murderers, cheered when he mocked a disabled reporter, surrounded and threatened media members doing their jobs, cheered and laughed when he used racist and sexist language to describe opponents, and cheered when he told blatant and obvious lies. Not just once, but over and over again until these things were a feature at every rally he led. 1) I said that there is a difference in perspectives between many people who wear the clothing and those who denigrate them. If you consider that as defending them, whatever. I really don't care. 2) "Lock her up!" has not resulted in Hillary Clinton being illegally seized and held, despite the calamity that is being portrayed in your statement. Hillary Clinton is as free as she ever has been. Therefore, the chants have had zero effect on any political opponents. There is no threat of her being arrested, or locked up, without due legal proceedings, so the outrage is very hollow to my ears. 3) You win. No criminals, drug dealers or rapists cross our southern border. Mexico does encourage doctors and scientists to defy our laws and cross our border illegally. The Mexican government hands out the old 31 page pamphlet, "Guide for the Mexican Migrant" to these high level achievers just to help them along. 4) All 7 seconds of the horror of Trump's mockery on display, never to be forgotten. Joe Biden's comments about not being allowed go to a 7-11 or Dunkin Donuts without having a slight Indian accent. No one remembers. No one cares. I give them about the same rating of inappropriateness and they are roughly equivalent in length. Hardly representative of actual policies created or supported by either man. And if they aren't discriminating against the disabled or the foreign-born (respectively), neither their private opinions nor my assumptions of their private opinions really matter. 5) Sexist language. He has said truly terrible things. And this is actually a fairly good summation of the fallacy that people support Donald Trump or parts of Trump's agenda because they agree with any or all of these terrible things that you listed. The truth is that people support Donald Trump or parts of his agenda despite those shortcomings because they see him as a man of action trying to implement the policies that they voted him into office to implement. There is a difference between the two that is clear as day to me and as murky as swamp to so many others. I'll just refer you back to this quote in my initial post, re: Trump saying awful things. "Not just once, but over and over again until these things were a feature at every rally he led."People mess up and say horrible things periodically. Trump does it over and over again, on purpose. That is clear as day to me, if not to you. It's almost like ... he means what he says. I think it's very telling that you apparently see no gray area between a Mexican doctor or lawyer, or a criminal, murderer, rapist, etc. (i.e., if they're not sending one, it must be the other). Very Trumpian. Hardworking, peaceful folk apparently do not exist among our immigrant population. (Narrator: In fact, they make up the vast majority of our immigrant population.) This is what the MAGA apologists don't seem to understand: the "policies they voted him into office to implement" come from the same place and way of thinking as all the terrible things he's said, over and over again. They come from false assumptions, lies and fearmongering. There is no "despite the terrible things he says." He hates brown-skinned people and tells lies about them cloaked in "border security." He sees women as second-class citizens and supports legislation to see them treated as such. He hates gay and trans folk and supports legislation to deny them access to honorably serve in the military, marry whom they choose, etc. He hates the poor and pushes legislation that will hurt them. He likes rich people and enacts legislation that will help them. There is no "despite." There is only "because."
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Post by Merge on Jan 25, 2019 17:59:54 GMT
Sounds like a problem with border security to me. I'm in disagreement that being below the historic high number lessens the significance of the problems created through people criminals who refuse to obey the laws we have enacted to legally protect our country. Texas Criminal Illegal Alien DataSounds like a problem with our border security to me. No, but it is going to deter women and children from making perilous journeys to try to get here. MOST DANGEROUS JOURNEY: WHAT CENTRAL AMERICAN MIGRANTS FACE WHEN THEY TRY TO CROSS THE BORDER -- Amnesty International Sounds like a problem enhanced by problems with our border security to me. Again, I'll just refer you back to a portion of my original post, which you apparently overlooked. "Why not spend $5B on better drug detection equipment and more agents, instead of a wall that won't solve the problem? I'll bet you all my meager paycheck that House and Senate Democrats would leap to vote for that - because many of them have suggested it. See, we also consider this a problem. But we're interested in spending money on solutions that may actually work, instead of spending the money to ruin the Texas border with a giant monument to Trump's ego." We want solutions that will actually work. Trump lies about Democrats not caring about border security, and you're lapping it up. What we don't want is wasted billions on a wall that will not work. Did you actually read any of the articles I linked? Or did you just skim through a couple to pull out quotes that allowed you to go off on a tangent? The Texas Tribune one is especially interesting for people who think a wall is going to help. Finally, a point of order - can you and everyone else who does it please, please stop including long-ass quotes from news articles. Link to the article, mention a point of interest, and let us go down the rabbit hole ourselves. Those of us who read mostly on our phones cannot easily follow a long post that also includes long quotes. Pull out shorter quotes, make your point and move on. Anyone interested in context can open the actual article.
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Post by bc2ca on Jan 25, 2019 18:21:49 GMT
Sounds like a problem with border security to me. I'm in disagreement that being below the historic high number lessens the significance of the problems created through people criminals who refuse to obey the laws we have enacted to legally protect our country. Texas Criminal Illegal Alien DataSounds like a problem with our border security to me. No, but it is going to deter women and children from making perilous journeys to try to get here. MOST DANGEROUS JOURNEY: WHAT CENTRAL AMERICAN MIGRANTS FACE WHEN THEY TRY TO CROSS THE BORDER -- Amnesty International Sounds like a problem enhanced by problems with our border security to me. No one is disputing border security is an issue that need to be addressed. What is being questioned is how is a 10 year construction project going to address any of it?
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Just T
Drama Llama
Posts: 5,530
Jun 26, 2014 1:20:09 GMT
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Post by Just T on Jan 25, 2019 18:24:20 GMT
I'm pretty certain I can piss off people of just about every political philosophy. You don't piss me off.
I actually enjoy your posts, and I do learn from them. I don't wade into political posts all that often. I've been burned a few times, and like I said earlier, I don't really know where I "fit" politically right now. I don't think I even have a real "political philosophy" these days. I read all of the political threads. Sometimes, I feel driven to respond, other times, I scream silently to myself, other times, I really want to respond, but don't know how to formulate my thoughts. I'm often confused. LOL
But, all that said, while I don't always agree with you, I do often look at something in a way I hadn't thought of before based on what you have posted. Know that even if I don't respond or say it, I appreciate what you post, even if I don't agree.
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Post by tentoes on Jan 25, 2019 18:59:43 GMT
Thank you leftturnonly for your posts. I truly enjoy them.
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Post by FuzzyMutt on Jan 25, 2019 19:21:07 GMT
The lack of reply is likely due to the fact that *I* for one do not feel like having my opinion dissected. I'm sure others feel the same. Not saying that you, AmeliaBloomer would dissect the opinions but others likely will. That's so interesting. I've noticed a lot of the right leaning peas here have felt the same way. For me, I don't necessarily enjoy having my opinion dissected or challenged, either - but I appreciate the opportunity to consider whether my opinions stand up to being challenged, or if I need to rethink and refine them. However at 2Peas, discussion means dog pile and pick apart the person willing to discuss based on one or two lines interpreted in a hot button manner. This board leans so far left if we were a ship we'd all be in the water. I tend to stay pretty quiet, and was just lambasted because I didn't realize "who" I was talking to and remember all other threads and posts about that person and managed to hit a hot button in addition to an unpopular opinion (on this board.) Not a single thing was said that challenged my opinion, just my life, my experience, my person and my intelligence. No one gained anything valuable from the "discussion." So, no thanks.
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Post by FuzzyMutt on Jan 25, 2019 19:31:33 GMT
Former Republican, now independent. The longer this administration is in office, the more left I become. Raising hand ✋. Me too. Yes, I believe there's a radical left. And at this point I'm not sure I believe they are worse than the radical right. My mom always taught us- two wrongs don't make a right (meaning: correct or good.) I agree, I believe the "noise" both right and left, is making it impossible for the vast majority of us in the center of the bell curve to think and love and communicate as we should.
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Post by leftturnonly on Jan 25, 2019 20:15:34 GMT
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Post by papercrafteradvocate on Jan 25, 2019 20:18:48 GMT
“Safe passage” does not mean open borders—-come on everyone pile in.
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Post by dewryce on Jan 25, 2019 20:39:29 GMT
And surely you realize that with your original list we can find equally disturbing examples from the right? This is probably part of the reason folks from either side don't want to try and explain why they feel the way they do though. Some says "I am ________ leaning because the other side does xyz" and instead of saying "i can see that, i understand why you feel that way" the reply is "well let me tell you how bad your side is". Sounds like a big game of one uppance. Not a game of one uppance, as I purposefully didn’t include examples to “beat hers” in order to avoid just that. She made the rather inflammatory accusation that: and was giving examples of what she categorizes as “unfiltered hate” from the liberal left and I was pointing out that it goes both ways. I felt like her messages imply that the country is going to hell solely due to the liberal left and I strongly disagree with her; and I didn’t state that I understood why she felt that way because I don’t. Merely pointing out that she should consider that it goes both ways before accusing one side of destroying the country.
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Post by Merge on Jan 25, 2019 21:16:49 GMT
Keith Ellison is now the AG of Minnesota, a position that has about as much national power as a turnip.
AOC is a freshman congresswoman with no more power than her one vote in Congress. And Nancy Pelosi will keep her in line. TBH the right pays far more attention to her than we do.
Let's look at Democratic representatives like Lizzie Fletcher and Joaquin Castro, both from Texas and both in favor of better border security, as was Beto when he was in Congress. Let's look at all the Democratic congresspeople (literally ALL of them, including AOC) who recently voted for budgets that included increased border security - but Trump turned them down because it wasn't money specifically for a wall.
This fear mongering from Trump and the right wing is not based on reality. It's a made up fear tactic and you all have fallen for it.
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Post by bc2ca on Jan 25, 2019 21:31:22 GMT
No one is disputing border security is an issue that need to be addressed. What is being questioned is how is a 10 year construction project going to address any of it?
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Post by leftturnonly on Jan 25, 2019 21:54:34 GMT
No one is disputing border security is an issue that need to be addressed. What is being questioned is how is a 10 year construction project going to address any of it? Well, yeah, there is quite the new wave of Democrats who are in fact disputing that border security is an issue to be addressed. (Hence the foot long post.) But since you were somehow able to disregard that part of your post, even as you copied my entire foot long one, I'm going to return the favor and ask you why this construction project was a big talking point for Democrats Obama, Pelosi & Schumer just a few years ago when illegal immigration was hurting our country and had to be addressed with tighter security, including a wall, at our southern border, yet it is now worth $1 funding because President Trump is the POTUS? On a more serious note, the construction of a substantial border will not take an additional 10 years, nor will it be the solid mass that was added as in a comic some pages back. In some areas, it will look like this and as Jim Acosta so readily points out, nothing much is happening where this wall has been built. Jim Acosta standing by the wall
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