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Post by Darcy Collins on Feb 2, 2019 3:01:33 GMT
I hope things get better for you Elaine. Thank you. We have found a placement for my son and are admitting him on Tuesday. He doesn’t know. Lots of crying by both my husband and myself when the boys aren’t around. My thoughts are with you. I'm not going to pretend to know what you're going through. I truly hope he'll get the help he needs. (((hugs)))
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Post by mom26 on Feb 2, 2019 3:21:28 GMT
He said the doctor and mom should decide the doctor can kill it. Read a source besides LifeNews or Brietbart, please. www.npr.org/2019/01/31/690468965/failed-virginia-bill-sparks-national-debate-about-abortionHis statement was about a child that was in need of resuscitation. Quote from the transcript (within the NPR article): RALPH NORTHAM: So in this particular example, if a mother is in labor, I can tell you exactly what would happen. The infant would be delivered. The infant would be kept comfortable. The infant would be resuscitated if that's what the mother and the family desired. And then a discussion would ensue between the physicians and the mother.MCCAMMON: And President Trump called those comments terrible. And other Republicans have accused Northam of supporting infanticide. Northam responded with a press conference a little while ago today. He is a pediatrician. And he's counseled families in tough situations, he said. He says Republican lawmakers are trying to score political points here and that they should not interfere in these difficult decisions. I'm sorry, but I need someone to explain to me how you keep a full-term, aborted*, deceased infant 'comfortable' while you take the time to discuss whether to resuscitate it or not. After resuscitation, you have further discussions on whether to continue to keep the child alive or not? How is that not murder? *Aborted because the mother decided, in the throes of labor, that she did not want to have a baby. I've given birth 4 times. I KNOW I said I didn't want to do it many times during labor. The pain of labor makes you say crazy things. Now, I know there is probably more to the decision-making than Northam addressed and my comment above is simplifying it, but criminies. Once a baby is born, it's a human life and is a protected life. The very idea that anyone thinks elective death of a born, full-term baby is even remotely acceptable is horrifying to me. Shades of Auschwitz, actually.
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Post by revirdsuba99 on Feb 2, 2019 3:39:37 GMT
Thank you. We have found a placement for my son and are admitting him on Tuesday. He doesn’t know. Lots of crying by both my husband and myself when the boys aren’t around. I am glad you we able to find a placement, as you say one the hardest things you will ever have to do....... (((((((((((((((((((((((((((((HUGS)))))))))))))))))))
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sassyangel
Drama Llama
Posts: 7,456
Jun 26, 2014 23:58:32 GMT
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Post by sassyangel on Feb 2, 2019 3:42:33 GMT
Read a source besides LifeNews or Brietbart, please. www.npr.org/2019/01/31/690468965/failed-virginia-bill-sparks-national-debate-about-abortionHis statement was about a child that was in need of resuscitation. Quote from the transcript (within the NPR article): RALPH NORTHAM: So in this particular example, if a mother is in labor, I can tell you exactly what would happen. The infant would be delivered. The infant would be kept comfortable. The infant would be resuscitated if that's what the mother and the family desired. And then a discussion would ensue between the physicians and the mother.MCCAMMON: And President Trump called those comments terrible. And other Republicans have accused Northam of supporting infanticide. Northam responded with a press conference a little while ago today. He is a pediatrician. And he's counseled families in tough situations, he said. He says Republican lawmakers are trying to score political points here and that they should not interfere in these difficult decisions. I'm sorry, but I need someone to explain to me how you keep a full-term, aborted*, deceased infant 'comfortable' while you take the time to discuss whether to resuscitate it or not. After resuscitation, you have further discussions on whether to continue to keep the child alive or not? How is that not murder? *Aborted because the mother decided, in the throes of labor, that she did not want to have a baby. I've given birth 4 times. I KNOW I said I didn't want to do it many times during labor. The pain of labor makes you say crazy things. Now, I know there is probably more to the decision-making than Northam addressed and my comment above is simplifying it, but criminies. Once a baby is born, it's a human life and is a protected life. The very idea that anyone thinks elective death of a born, full-term baby is even remotely acceptable is horrifying to me. Shades of Auschwitz, actually. We are not talking healthy babies here, who are *wanted* until they are born. As I understood it, the circumstance was directly around children who are born KNOWING they will only have hours (if that) to *live* due to many medical factors. That happens often enough, sadly.
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Post by bc2ca on Feb 2, 2019 3:50:22 GMT
Read a source besides LifeNews or Brietbart, please. www.npr.org/2019/01/31/690468965/failed-virginia-bill-sparks-national-debate-about-abortionHis statement was about a child that was in need of resuscitation. Quote from the transcript (within the NPR article): RALPH NORTHAM: So in this particular example, if a mother is in labor, I can tell you exactly what would happen. The infant would be delivered. The infant would be kept comfortable. The infant would be resuscitated if that's what the mother and the family desired. And then a discussion would ensue between the physicians and the mother.MCCAMMON: And President Trump called those comments terrible. And other Republicans have accused Northam of supporting infanticide. Northam responded with a press conference a little while ago today. He is a pediatrician. And he's counseled families in tough situations, he said. He says Republican lawmakers are trying to score political points here and that they should not interfere in these difficult decisions. I'm sorry, but I need someone to explain to me how you keep a full-term, aborted*, deceased infant 'comfortable' while you take the time to discuss whether to resuscitate it or not. After resuscitation, you have further discussions on whether to continue to keep the child alive or not? How is that not murder? *Aborted because the mother decided, in the throes of labor, that she did not want to have a baby. I've given birth 4 times. I KNOW I said I didn't want to do it many times during labor. The pain of labor makes you say crazy things. Now, I know there is probably more to the decision-making than Northam addressed and my comment above is simplifying it, but criminies. Once a baby is born, it's a human life and is a protected life. The very idea that anyone thinks elective death of a born, full-term baby is even remotely acceptable is horrifying to me. Shades of Auschwitz, actually.
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Post by revirdsuba99 on Feb 2, 2019 3:52:02 GMT
I will trust Rep John Lewis' opinion!
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mimima
Pearl Clutcher
Stay Gold, Ponyboy
Posts: 4,995
Jun 25, 2014 19:25:50 GMT
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Post by mimima on Feb 2, 2019 3:56:40 GMT
I hope things get better for you Elaine. Thank you. We have found a placement for my son and are admitting him on Tuesday. He doesn’t know. Lots of crying by both my husband and myself when the boys aren’t around. My love, my dear friend. Lots of hugs.
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melissa
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 3,912
Jun 25, 2014 20:45:00 GMT
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Post by melissa on Feb 2, 2019 4:00:23 GMT
If you act like this in medical school and support the taking of a baby’s life after birth you’re prettt much a monster. I don't know you but I already know this much. You are uneducated on the topic of what so-called "late term abortion" is. Anyone who would say that has to be uneducated on the topic. I truly believe that anyone with a single ounce of compassion, once they learn what is really being discussed, would NEVER EVER say something like that. I am referring to the latter and not the costume in his year book. Late term abortion is a term created by the far pro-life right. It is not and has never been a medical term. The first time I ever saw that phrase, I had to look it up because it was never covered in medical school nor in 4 years of ob/gyn residency. Never saw it in a text book or a single journal article and I was once very well read. Extremely well read in my area of expertise. Not only that, I had an attending in residency who was one of the few physicians left who did certain types of pregnancy terminations (and this was the 90's, there are far fewer today). He was someone people came to from all over because he was kind and compassionate and could provide women in serious medical need with a choice. I have mentioned her many times before but I will never forget the woman who had a type of cancer that required quick treatment to live. She was a fundamentalist Christian who had actually protested abortion herself. And there she was, having what these disgusting people call "late term abortion." She ended her pregnancy so she could have a chance to live for her existing children. Yes, she mourned that baby. We all did. But in the situation, she made that choice. Anyone who dares to call someone who can help a woman in a situation like that a monster is not a kind and compassionate person. If I have insulted you, I do not apologize. I am disappointed in this man's choices as a younger man. We have thrown others out of office for far less and others (esp Republicans) have stayed in office for worse. However, calling someone who understands these medical issues a monster... that makes you one yourself. Pot meet kettle. Sorry folks... I've had it up to here with people getting all angsty and angry about something they have not a clue about and refuse to learn. I often let these things go and do not engage the uneducated. Every once in a while, I think maybe... just maybe there is a tiny chance that one person will learn and understand. I made a woman in the airport cry once when she called Hillary Clinton a "baby killer." She happened to be an RN from Michigan who had no idea what these laws and procedures were really about. She cried when she learned that she had been deceived all this time (she was probably about 80 years old). We have a very long talk about medicine past and present that was started because of politics. Don't fall for the propaganda folks. Please.
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Post by iamkristinl16 on Feb 2, 2019 4:00:38 GMT
Read a source besides LifeNews or Brietbart, please. www.npr.org/2019/01/31/690468965/failed-virginia-bill-sparks-national-debate-about-abortionHis statement was about a child that was in need of resuscitation. Quote from the transcript (within the NPR article): RALPH NORTHAM: So in this particular example, if a mother is in labor, I can tell you exactly what would happen. The infant would be delivered. The infant would be kept comfortable. The infant would be resuscitated if that's what the mother and the family desired. And then a discussion would ensue between the physicians and the mother.MCCAMMON: And President Trump called those comments terrible. And other Republicans have accused Northam of supporting infanticide. Northam responded with a press conference a little while ago today. He is a pediatrician. And he's counseled families in tough situations, he said. He says Republican lawmakers are trying to score political points here and that they should not interfere in these difficult decisions. I'm sorry, but I need someone to explain to me how you keep a full-term, aborted*, deceased infant 'comfortable' while you take the time to discuss whether to resuscitate it or not. After resuscitation, you have further discussions on whether to continue to keep the child alive or not? How is that not murder? *Aborted because the mother decided, in the throes of labor, that she did not want to have a baby. I've given birth 4 times. I KNOW I said I didn't want to do it many times during labor. The pain of labor makes you say crazy things. Now, I know there is probably more to the decision-making than Northam addressed and my comment above is simplifying it, but criminies. Once a baby is born, it's a human life and is a protected life. The very idea that anyone thinks elective death of a born, full-term baby is even remotely acceptable is horrifying to me. Shades of Auschwitz, actually. Why is it so hard for people to understand that there are reasons people get abortions besides just "not wanting a baby" ?? This is what is driving me crazy on Facebook this week. There are lots of articles and explanations, but here is one. www.scarymommy.com/late-term-abortions-viral-thread/?fbclid=IwAR19BgURhk_DQGKtBi5ASy7EjitT79xPo6VId4gd6SGFruATHf_YkM4Kmn8
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Post by mustlovecats on Feb 2, 2019 4:04:28 GMT
Read a source besides LifeNews or Brietbart, please. www.npr.org/2019/01/31/690468965/failed-virginia-bill-sparks-national-debate-about-abortionHis statement was about a child that was in need of resuscitation. Quote from the transcript (within the NPR article): RALPH NORTHAM: So in this particular example, if a mother is in labor, I can tell you exactly what would happen. The infant would be delivered. The infant would be kept comfortable. The infant would be resuscitated if that's what the mother and the family desired. And then a discussion would ensue between the physicians and the mother.MCCAMMON: And President Trump called those comments terrible. And other Republicans have accused Northam of supporting infanticide. Northam responded with a press conference a little while ago today. He is a pediatrician. And he's counseled families in tough situations, he said. He says Republican lawmakers are trying to score political points here and that they should not interfere in these difficult decisions. I'm sorry, but I need someone to explain to me how you keep a full-term, aborted*, deceased infant 'comfortable' while you take the time to discuss whether to resuscitate it or not. After resuscitation, you have further discussions on whether to continue to keep the child alive or not? How is that not murder? *Aborted because the mother decided, in the throes of labor, that she did not want to have a baby. I've given birth 4 times. I KNOW I said I didn't want to do it many times during labor. The pain of labor makes you say crazy things. Now, I know there is probably more to the decision-making than Northam addressed and my comment above is simplifying it, but criminies. Once a baby is born, it's a human life and is a protected life. The very idea that anyone thinks elective death of a born, full-term baby is even remotely acceptable is horrifying to me. Shades of Auschwitz, actually. If you can show me one instance in which a woman in labor literally got all the way to the delivery room, asked for and was given digoxin to stop the baby’s heart, and ended up in the scenario you are describing here then it is an argument worth engaging, otherwise you have cobbled together quite the straw man argument here.
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trollie
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 3,580
Jul 2, 2014 22:14:02 GMT
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Post by trollie on Feb 2, 2019 4:06:32 GMT
I hope things get better for you Elaine. Thank you. We have found a placement for my son and are admitting him on Tuesday. He doesn’t know. Lots of crying by both my husband and myself when the boys aren’t around. Oh man. If you posted about this I missed it. ((((BIG HIGS))))
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Post by lucyg on Feb 2, 2019 4:13:21 GMT
elaine, I am so sorry for the difficult choice you’ve had to make. melissa, thank you for your nuanced response to the “late term abortion” issue. Those of you who feel free to pass judgment on other people’s tragic medical situations should maybe think hard about your own ignorance and lack of empathy.
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twinsmomfla99
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 3,949
Jun 26, 2014 13:42:47 GMT
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Post by twinsmomfla99 on Feb 2, 2019 4:15:54 GMT
Read a source besides LifeNews or Brietbart, please. www.npr.org/2019/01/31/690468965/failed-virginia-bill-sparks-national-debate-about-abortionHis statement was about a child that was in need of resuscitation. Quote from the transcript (within the NPR article): RALPH NORTHAM: So in this particular example, if a mother is in labor, I can tell you exactly what would happen. The infant would be delivered. The infant would be kept comfortable. The infant would be resuscitated if that's what the mother and the family desired. And then a discussion would ensue between the physicians and the mother.MCCAMMON: And President Trump called those comments terrible. And other Republicans have accused Northam of supporting infanticide. Northam responded with a press conference a little while ago today. He is a pediatrician. And he's counseled families in tough situations, he said. He says Republican lawmakers are trying to score political points here and that they should not interfere in these difficult decisions. I'm sorry, but I need someone to explain to me how you keep a full-term, aborted*, deceased infant 'comfortable' while you take the time to discuss whether to resuscitate it or not. After resuscitation, you have further discussions on whether to continue to keep the child alive or not? How is that not murder? *Aborted because the mother decided, in the throes of labor, that she did not want to have a baby. I've given birth 4 times. I KNOW I said I didn't want to do it many times during labor. The pain of labor makes you say crazy things. Now, I know there is probably more to the decision-making than Northam addressed and my comment above is simplifying it, but criminies. Once a baby is born, it's a human life and is a protected life. The very idea that anyone thinks elective death of a born, full-term baby is even remotely acceptable is horrifying to me. Shades of Auschwitz, actually. If I am reading the quote correctly, he was responding to the question of what would happen if a mother requested an abortion during labor. Remember, this ONLY applies where the fetus/infant is NOT viable or is suffering from some condition incompatible with life. (The only other allowable reason for a third trimester abortion is the health of the mother, and if she is in the process of delivering that really doesn’t come into play since the time/procedure for an abortion at that point won’t likely help her as much as an emergency c-section.) His response was basically a “no, I would not perform an abortion at that point.” In other words, the baby would be delivered and kept comfortable. If resuscitation is required, and that is what the family wants, then it will be done. After the immediate concerns are covered, then he would discuss next steps with the parents: will the baby be kept in life support? “Extreme measures” taken? How much intervention to keep the baby alive? This is rarely a big surprise to the parents. They are counseled beforehand about complications likely to happen at birth based on ultrasound diagnosis. The decision to resuscitate or not isn’t something that takes a long time. All the doctor has to say is “The baby isn’t breathing. Do you want me to resuscitate?” And the parents say yes or no. Once the baby is stabilized, THEN there is a discussion about end-of-life issues. You ask how they keep the baby comfortable while making these decisions—Place it in an incubator to keep it warm? Give pain meds if necessary? Allow parents to hold the baby free of tubes and wires while he or she passes? Nothing anywhere in his statement suggests that a child is going to be killed after it is born. They simply allow nature to take its course.
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Post by revirdsuba99 on Feb 2, 2019 4:21:02 GMT
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Post by revirdsuba99 on Feb 2, 2019 4:32:39 GMT
*Aborted because the mother decided, in the throes of labor, that she did not want to have a baby. I've given birth 4 times. I KNOW I said I didn't want to do it many times during labor. The pain of labor makes you say crazy things. The decision is not being made during labor. Often severe problems with a fetus are discovered long before delivery and/or at delivery for very serious conditions. Resuscitation allows the parents time to hold and spend time with their newborn during the last hours he/she could have. THAT is compassion!
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Post by papercrafteradvocate on Feb 2, 2019 4:40:02 GMT
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Post by revirdsuba99 on Feb 2, 2019 4:45:53 GMT
Both houses of VA Legislative Black Cacuses have called for Northam to resign!
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Post by mom26 on Feb 2, 2019 5:00:01 GMT
Okay, I've been duly schooled.
There are LOTS of reasons to wait until full-term birth to abort. Message received.
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Post by Merge on Feb 2, 2019 5:04:04 GMT
Okay, I've been duly schooled. There are LOTS of reasons to wait until full-term birth to abort. Message received. Wtf are you talking about?
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Post by mom26 on Feb 2, 2019 5:09:02 GMT
Okay, I've been duly schooled. There are LOTS of reasons to wait until full-term birth to abort. Message received. Wtf are you talking about? I've had multiple people upthread tell me how wrong my view of the up-till-birth abortion is, so I conceded. They're right and I am wrong. I have no desire to argue it further.
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inkedup
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 4,837
Jun 26, 2014 5:00:26 GMT
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Post by inkedup on Feb 2, 2019 5:10:42 GMT
Okay, I've been duly schooled. There are LOTS of reasons to wait until full-term birth to abort. Message received. I think I'll take the opinion of a highly trained, skilled MEDICAL DOCTOR like melissa over the bloviating of a group of dishonest fear mongers ANY DAY. I am curious as to how many women you know, who, as they're crowning, request "abortions?" The amount of misinformation and sheer ignorance is staggering. The lack of empathy for the women and families who find themselves in this situation is infuriating, especially when it comes from a place of supposed concern for human life. You pro lifers are really only pro fetus.
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inkedup
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 4,837
Jun 26, 2014 5:00:26 GMT
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Post by inkedup on Feb 2, 2019 5:11:54 GMT
Wtf are you talking about? I've had multiple people upthread tell me how wrong my view of the up-till-birth abortion is, so I conceded. They're right and I am wrong. I have no desire to argue it further. "Up-till-birth abortion" is not a real thing. It's a bunch of words you and your pro-life buddies have thrown together to allow you to judge women whose lives are threatened by pregnancy, or whose babies will spend their too brief lives suffering.
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Post by slkone on Feb 2, 2019 5:13:51 GMT
Wtf are you talking about? I've had multiple people upthread tell me how wrong my view of the up-till-birth abortion is, so I conceded. They're right and I am wrong. I have no desire to argue it further. You might not have any desire to argue, but you obviously have no desire to learn, either. You have it in your head that women abort up to birth willy-nilly and you have refused to acknowledge that late term abortions (which melissa expanded on upthread) is NOT DONE on a whim. It is NOT DONE unless there is a serious medical need. FFS, why don't you read something outside of your bubble?
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Post by mom26 on Feb 2, 2019 5:14:48 GMT
I've had multiple people upthread tell me how wrong my view of the up-till-birth abortion is, so I conceded. They're right and I am wrong. I have no desire to argue it further. "Up-till-birth abortion" is not a real thing. It's a bunch of words you and your pro-life buddies have thrown together to allow you to judge women whose lives are threatened by pregnancy, or whose babies will spend their too brief lives suffering. I challenge you to read the Gosnell trial transcripts. It IS a real thing.
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Post by Merge on Feb 2, 2019 5:15:06 GMT
Wtf are you talking about? I've had multiple people upthread tell me how wrong my view of the up-till-birth abortion is, so I conceded. They're right and I am wrong. I have no desire to argue it further. If that's what you took away from the responses to you upthread, I think you should take another look in the morning when you're more clear-headed.
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Post by slkone on Feb 2, 2019 5:16:11 GMT
"Up-till-birth abortion" is not a real thing. It's a bunch of words you and your pro-life buddies have thrown together to allow you to judge women whose lives are threatened by pregnancy, or whose babies will spend their too brief lives suffering. I challenge you to read the Gosnell trial transcripts. It IS a real thing. Are you that obtuse? That's why Gosnell is in jail.
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Post by mom26 on Feb 2, 2019 5:21:25 GMT
And for the record, I am firmly pro-choice. I've no desire to have Roe v Wade reversed or to make abortions unattainable or difficult for women to access. I just think we need to take a hard look at the extremes to which it now seems to be going.
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Post by mom26 on Feb 2, 2019 5:22:10 GMT
I challenge you to read the Gosnell trial transcripts. It IS a real thing. Are you that obtuse? That's why Gosnell is in jail. No, but I think you may be.
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Post by Merge on Feb 2, 2019 5:29:43 GMT
"Up-till-birth abortion" is not a real thing. It's a bunch of words you and your pro-life buddies have thrown together to allow you to judge women whose lives are threatened by pregnancy, or whose babies will spend their too brief lives suffering. I challenge you to read the Gosnell trial transcripts. It IS a real thing. No, it is not in any normal, licensed medical establishment. What Gosnell did was horrific. And if you read the transcripts, I'm sure you know that he ran a back-alley clinic where he preyed on poor women, often injuring them in the process. Delivering a child with severe abnormalities, making it comfortable, and allowing nature to take its course - which is what Northam was talking about - is not remotely comparable to what Gosnell did. I'll tell you what, though - if you want to see more "clinics" like Gosnell's pop up, by all means, outlaw the safe clinics that run within the bounds of normal medical ethics. You'll have new Gosnells popping up right and left.
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sassyangel
Drama Llama
Posts: 7,456
Jun 26, 2014 23:58:32 GMT
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Post by sassyangel on Feb 2, 2019 5:46:38 GMT
Wtf are you talking about? I've had multiple people upthread tell me how wrong my view of the up-till-birth abortion is, so I conceded. They're right and I am wrong. I have no desire to argue it further. Your interpretation of that particular thing, was a misunderstanding, yes. Its not black and white. Honestly, its much more complicated and heartbreaking than people who have never been there, could ever really understand.
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