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Post by revirdsuba99 on Feb 2, 2019 5:55:33 GMT
I'll tell you what, though - if you want to see more "clinics" like Gosnell's pop up, by all means, outlaw the safe clinics that run within the bounds of normal medical ethics. You'll have new Gosnells popping up right and left. My generation lived through the times of the back alley procedures.......... Some didn't live. The affluent flew overseas or the friendly family friend doctor did a 'legal' D&C.
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Post by mom26 on Feb 2, 2019 6:31:41 GMT
I've had multiple people upthread tell me how wrong my view of the up-till-birth abortion is, so I conceded. They're right and I am wrong. I have no desire to argue it further. Your interpretation of that particular thing, was a misunderstanding, yes. Its not black and white. Honestly, its much more complicated and heartbreaking than people who have never been there, could ever really understand. Perhaps it was, perhaps it wasn't. Which is why I wish that politics could be put aside for this particular discussion. I'm not right or left on this, I'm just...human.
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Post by mollycoddle on Feb 2, 2019 6:35:43 GMT
I hope things get better for you Elaine. Thank you. We have found a placement for my son and are admitting him on Tuesday. He doesn’t know. Lots of crying by both my husband and myself when the boys aren’t around. Elaine, I’m so sorry for your troubles.
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Deleted
Posts: 0
Apr 24, 2024 4:55:28 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Feb 2, 2019 12:13:16 GMT
If you act like this in medical school and support the taking of a baby’s life after birth you’re prettt much a monster. Really? How on earth would you come to that conclusion from what he said........ He said he thinks at least two doctors should approve a late-term abortion. But first, he drew on his medical background to describe what might transpire in cases in which a fetus has severe deformities or is otherwise non-viable. “The infant would be delivered,” he said. “The infant would be kept comfortable, the infant would be resuscitated, if that’s what the mother and the family desired, and then a discussion would ensue between the physicians and the mother.”
If you conclude that what he said is "killing babies" then you have to also believe that anyone switching off anyone's life support machine is a murderer. As for someone else to say this...... House Majority Leader Todd Gilbert, who asked her if it would allow an abortion while a woman was in labor.
How in the world can you have an abortion when you are actually in labour? By the definition of abortion that is beyond explanation. abortion /əˈbɔːʃ(ə)n/ noun
1.
the deliberate termination of a human pregnancy,
If a woman is already in labour, by any stretch of the imagination can you say that anyone is deliberately terminating a pregnancy. Some of these people, you included, really need some education in the facts of life and certainly in comprehension. Did you say you were a teacher?
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melissa
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 3,912
Jun 25, 2014 20:45:00 GMT
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Post by melissa on Feb 2, 2019 14:04:14 GMT
And to add one more bit of explanation, ending a pregnancy is NOT always synonymous with the death of the baby.
Your pro-lifers want you to to believe this abortion is death or murder. Don't fall for their rhetoric.
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Post by elaine on Feb 2, 2019 14:27:56 GMT
And to add one more bit of explanation, ending a pregnancy is NOT always synonymous with the death of the baby. Your pro-lifers want you to to believe this abortion is death or murder. Don't fall for their rhetoric. And the whole switch to this topic is because the OP and the few rabid conservatives who are still butt hurt by the negative reaction to the Covington High school boys and now disappointed that they didn’t get the hypocritical response to Northam’s racist antics they believed they would get. So, since they can’t point their fingers and scream “HYPOCRITES” at us about the racist incidents, they have shifted topic to a messier one that has nothing to do with the racist offenses that Northam committed in med school. Too bad they couldn’t even stick to the topic that they assigned to the thread in its title: “Virginia’s racist governor.”
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Post by jeremysgirl on Feb 2, 2019 15:39:40 GMT
I swear in one of those abortion articles it was said that there was exactly 1 late term abortion in 3 years time in Virginia. That stuck out to me. It's not like this is an everyday thing.
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lindas
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 4,146
Jun 26, 2014 5:46:37 GMT
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Post by lindas on Feb 2, 2019 16:00:39 GMT
And to add one more bit of explanation, ending a pregnancy is NOT always synonymous with the death of the baby. Your pro-lifers want you to to believe this abortion is death or murder. Don't fall for their rhetoric. And the whole switch to this topic is because the OP and the few rabid conservatives who are still butt hurt by the negative reaction to the Covington High school boys and now disappointed that they didn’t get the hypocritical response to Northam’s racist antics they believed they would get. So, since they can’t point their fingers and scream “HYPOCRITES” at us about the racist incidents, they have shifted topic to a messier one that has nothing to do with the racist offenses that Northam committed in med school. Too bad they couldn’t even stick to the topic that they assigned to the thread in its title: “Virginia’s racist governor.” I am the OP and I posted it because it was news, not because I was looking to scream hypocrites at anyone. I am neither butt hurt over Covington nor disappointed over the responses to my original post. If you bothered to look you would see that I haven't commented on the original topic or the ensuing path this took to the abortion issue. Please check your facts before you start pointing your finger at all conservatives. Not all of us are looking for a fight.
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Post by revirdsuba99 on Feb 2, 2019 16:03:00 GMT
Northam is now saying he does not believe he was in the picture at all............. he will not resign.
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lindas
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 4,146
Jun 26, 2014 5:46:37 GMT
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Post by lindas on Feb 2, 2019 16:10:28 GMT
Northam is now saying he does not believe he was in the picture at all............. he will not resign. Yesterday he admitted to being one of the people in the picture and apologized now he claims he doesn't know if it's him or not, WTH??
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Post by revirdsuba99 on Feb 2, 2019 16:16:16 GMT
Northam is now saying he does not believe he was in the picture at all............. he will not resign. Yesterday he admitted to being one of the people in the picture and apologized now he claims he doesn't know if it's him or not, WTH?? Who knows! There will supposedly he will hold a press conference later today.
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Post by femalebusiness on Feb 2, 2019 16:53:22 GMT
And to add one more bit of explanation, ending a pregnancy is NOT always synonymous with the death of the baby. Your pro-lifers want you to to believe this abortion is death or murder. Don't fall for their rhetoric. And the whole switch to this topic is because the OP and the few rabid conservatives who are still butt hurt by the negative reaction to the Covington High school boys and now disappointed that they didn’t get the hypocritical response to Northam’s racist antics they believed they would get. So, since they can’t point their fingers and scream “HYPOCRITES” at us about the racist incidents, they have shifted topic to a messier one that has nothing to do with the racist offenses that Northam committed in med school. Too bad they couldn’t even stick to the topic that they assigned to the thread in its title: “Virginia’s racist governor.” Exactly. The thought that teach4u is actually a teacher sends cold chills down my spine.
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Post by dewryce on Feb 2, 2019 17:07:33 GMT
And the whole switch to this topic is because the OP and the few rabid conservatives who are still butt hurt by the negative reaction to the Covington High school boys and now disappointed that they didn’t get the hypocritical response to Northam’s racist antics they believed they would get. So, since they can’t point their fingers and scream “HYPOCRITES” at us about the racist incidents, they have shifted topic to a messier one that has nothing to do with the racist offenses that Northam committed in med school. Too bad they couldn’t even stick to the topic that they assigned to the thread in its title: “Virginia’s racist governor.” Exactly. The thought that teach4u is actually a teacher sends cold chills down my spine. I think this thread is getting mixed up with the other thread started by teach4u.
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Deleted
Posts: 0
Apr 24, 2024 4:55:28 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Feb 2, 2019 17:20:46 GMT
Exactly. The thought that teach4u is actually a teacher sends cold chills down my spine. I think this thread is getting mixed up with the other thread started by teach4u. Not really. It was teach4u that threw the spanner into the thread by posting this
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Post by dewryce on Feb 2, 2019 17:35:50 GMT
I think this thread is getting mixed up with the other thread started by teach4u. Not really. It was teach4u that threw the spanner into the thread by posting this Elaine was talking about the OP discussing Covington, which was not in this thread unless I missed a post by Lindas. It was the first post in teach4u’s thread.
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Post by papercrafteradvocate on Feb 2, 2019 17:42:17 GMT
Okay, I've been duly schooled. There are LOTS of reasons to wait until full-term birth to abort. Message received. I think I'll take the opinion of a highly trained, skilled MEDICAL DOCTOR like melissa over the bloviating of a group of dishonest fear mongers ANY DAY. I am curious as to how many women you know, who, as they're crowning, request "abortions?" The amount of misinformation and sheer ignorance is staggering. The lack of empathy for the women and families who find themselves in this situation is infuriating, especially when it comes from a place of supposed concern for human life. You pro lifers are really only pro fetus. Yes, this—1,000,000 Times this!!!!
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Deleted
Posts: 0
Apr 24, 2024 4:55:28 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Feb 2, 2019 17:46:43 GMT
Not really. It was teach4u that threw the spanner into the thread by posting this Elaine was talking about the OP discussing Covington, which was not in this thread unless I missed a post by Lindas. It was the first post in teach4u’s thread. I thought you were replying to femalebusiness ......sorry. I took elaine 's post to mean that this thread was also started to get a gotcha, same as the other thread but didn't go the way it was expected.
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Post by femalebusiness on Feb 2, 2019 17:48:53 GMT
Not really. It was teach4u that threw the spanner into the thread by posting this Elaine was talking about the OP discussing Covington, which was not in this thread unless I missed a post by Lindas. It was the first post in teach4u’s thread. Yes, I should have been more clear. I was agreeing completely with Elaine's post and also commenting on teach4u's absurd comment: If you act like this in medical school and support the taking of a baby’s life after birth you’re prettt much a monster.
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Post by sabrinae on Feb 2, 2019 17:56:09 GMT
Read a source besides LifeNews or Brietbart, please. www.npr.org/2019/01/31/690468965/failed-virginia-bill-sparks-national-debate-about-abortionHis statement was about a child that was in need of resuscitation. Quote from the transcript (within the NPR article): RALPH NORTHAM: So in this particular example, if a mother is in labor, I can tell you exactly what would happen. The infant would be delivered. The infant would be kept comfortable. The infant would be resuscitated if that's what the mother and the family desired. And then a discussion would ensue between the physicians and the mother.MCCAMMON: And President Trump called those comments terrible. And other Republicans have accused Northam of supporting infanticide. Northam responded with a press conference a little while ago today. He is a pediatrician. And he's counseled families in tough situations, he said. He says Republican lawmakers are trying to score political points here and that they should not interfere in these difficult decisions. I'm sorry, but I need someone to explain to me how you keep a full-term, aborted*, deceased infant 'comfortable' while you take the time to discuss whether to resuscitate it or not. After resuscitation, you have further discussions on whether to continue to keep the child alive or not? How is that not murder? *Aborted because the mother decided, in the throes of labor, that she did not want to have a baby. I've given birth 4 times. I KNOW I said I didn't want to do it many times during labor. The pain of labor makes you say crazy things. Now, I know there is probably more to the decision-making than Northam addressed and my comment above is simplifying it, but criminies. Once a baby is born, it's a human life and is a protected life. The very idea that anyone thinks elective death of a born, full-term baby is even remotely acceptable is horrifying to me. Shades of Auschwitz, actually. Some people are faced with horrifying decisions upon the north of their baby. If the child has a condition that is not compatible with life or not compatible with life without complex medical interventions I fully support the right of the family to decide if, when and what interventions, if any, are carried out. Those decisions aren’t decisions anyone wants to face and don’t have any “right” decision. After personally seeing the lives these babies live and the painful procedures I’m not going to judge anyone for making decisions they believe to be in the best interest of their child.
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Just T
Drama Llama
Posts: 5,539
Jun 26, 2014 1:20:09 GMT
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Post by Just T on Feb 2, 2019 18:04:21 GMT
I think I'll take the opinion of a highly trained, skilled MEDICAL DOCTOR like melissa over the bloviating of a group of dishonest fear mongers ANY DAY. I am curious as to how many women you know, who, as they're crowning, request "abortions?" The amount of misinformation and sheer ignorance is staggering. The lack of empathy for the women and families who find themselves in this situation is infuriating, especially when it comes from a place of supposed concern for human life. You pro lifers are really only pro fetus. Yes, this—1,000,000 Times this!!!! This particular topic is one that really makes me feel all ragey and angry. Unless you have worked with those who have had to make a terrible choice to terminate their pregnancy late in the game, you really have zero clue about it. Unless you have sat in front of someone tearfully telling you about the baby they wanted so very much yet they couldn't sleep or work or function because all they could think about was their baby possibly being in pain because of a medical condition they had, you really are clueless. "Late term abortions" are not about someone all of the sudden deciding, when they are full term, that they do not want a baby and want an abortion. During the last election, I got soooooo sick and tired of the gross meme's and cartoons on FB about this. It's so false and misleading.
I am not in the medical profession, but I have spent the last 15 years working for an organization that provides support to families who lose a baby during pregnancy or infancy. I have met so many parents who have had to make gut-wrenching decisions about their baby due to terrible things being wrong with their baby. I have also met many parents who have had to end their pregnancy because of something life-threatening to them, such as HELLP Syndrome and others. I guarantee you not one of them didn't agonize over their choices. Not one of them who had to decide whether to exhaust all measures of life support or let their baby die in their arms peacefully while being compassionately cared for had a cavalier attitude about it. Deciding not to put a critically ill newborn on life support just isn't the same as "killing a baby." I don't think there is one sane person out there who thinks that just killing a full term infant is okay. If there is a doctor that would do that, that doctor should be in prison.
Just keep in mind, the way this issue is presented in politics is not the way it really is. All it does is ensure that parents who already are feeling agonized that they had to make such a choice feel even more isolated and alone than most already do.
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Post by elaine on Feb 2, 2019 18:31:03 GMT
And the whole switch to this topic is because the OP and the few rabid conservatives who are still butt hurt by the negative reaction to the Covington High school boys and now disappointed that they didn’t get the hypocritical response to Northam’s racist antics they believed they would get. So, since they can’t point their fingers and scream “HYPOCRITES” at us about the racist incidents, they have shifted topic to a messier one that has nothing to do with the racist offenses that Northam committed in med school. Too bad they couldn’t even stick to the topic that they assigned to the thread in its title: “Virginia’s racist governor.” I am the OP and I posted it because it was news, not because I was looking to scream hypocrites at anyone. I am neither butt hurt over Covington nor disappointed over the responses to my original post. If you bothered to look you would see that I haven't commented on the original topic or the ensuing path this took to the abortion issue. Please check your facts before you start pointing your finger at all conservatives. Not all of us are looking for a fight. I said “a few rabid conservatives,” not all conservatives. Please check your facts before you start hand slapping. You certainly haven’t attempted to reign in the current rabid conservative fighting with everyone on your thread.
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Post by elaine on Feb 2, 2019 18:31:53 GMT
Elaine was talking about the OP discussing Covington, which was not in this thread unless I missed a post by Lindas. It was the first post in teach4u’s thread. I thought you were replying to femalebusiness ......sorry. I took elaine 's post to mean that this thread was also started to get a gotcha, same as the other thread but didn't go the way it was expected. Yes, that is what I meant and I what I believe.
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lindas
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 4,146
Jun 26, 2014 5:46:37 GMT
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Post by lindas on Feb 2, 2019 19:09:53 GMT
I am the OP and I posted it because it was news, not because I was looking to scream hypocrites at anyone. I am neither butt hurt over Covington nor disappointed over the responses to my original post. If you bothered to look you would see that I haven't commented on the original topic or the ensuing path this took to the abortion issue. Please check your facts before you start pointing your finger at all conservatives. Not all of us are looking for a fight. I said “a few rabid conservatives,” not all conservatives. Please check your facts before you start hand slapping. You certainly haven’t attempted to reign in the current rabid conservative fighting with everyone on your thread. No, what you said was "the OP and a few rabid conservatives" and I said not all of us are looking for a fight. It's not my job to reign in anyone on any thread whether I started it or not. It's quite common here for a thread to veer completely off topic which you're well aware of.
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Post by Darcy Collins on Feb 2, 2019 19:09:56 GMT
Honest question - why do so many women think so poorly of other women? Why do they think that there are so many women who would call for an abortion on the delivery table that we need legislation to prevent it. Seriously, in what universe is this necessary. The sad thing is everyone actually wants the same thing. Fewer unintended pregnancies. No one wants women to face the prospect of bringing a child into the world that they cannot care for - and make no mistake 80% of all abortions are conducted on POOR women. I doubt there's a person who is cavalier about continuing a pregnancy and choosing an abortion any later than absolutely necessary. There's a reason why as science has improved with both early pregnancy detection and safe medicinal abortion 91.1% of abortions are conducted in the first trimester - that's an improvement from decades ago and frankly I would love to see that number 100% Now why isn't it - well there's the 7.6% of women who terminate between 13-20 weeks (which is still before the point of viability so lets not get into ridiculous infanticide discussions). Unfortunately many of those women - and in many cases young women had more issues with the logistics of finding and paying for a provider. Sometimes they learned of the pregnancy late, feared telling partners and/or parents. Had to travel hundreds of miles to find a provider. Is it ideal - of course not and a full 70% of them state they would have liked to have an abortion earlier. I'd proposed improved access to long term birth control would probably help both these groups avoid abortions entirely, but again none of these 98.7% of abortions are relevant to the discussion. It's the 1.3% of abortions beyond 20 weeks that were being discussed. The category of abortions where it is already required that either the health of the mother or lack of viability of the fetus are required by a DOCTOR before an abortion is granted. And lets be clear, the legislation was to bring the required number of doctors signing off on the need for the abortion from 3 to 1 in order to obtain an abortion past 20 weeks in Virginia. In what dream world does someone believe in the throes of labor the attending doctor is going to sign off an elective abortion. I mean hell there's something like fewer than 10 doctors who even conduct 3rd trimester abortions. But sure some woman is going to suddenly decide to have an abortion during delivery and she just happens to have a doctor who not only is willing to sign off on the abortion but will actually perform the procedure.
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Post by jeremysgirl on Feb 2, 2019 19:24:57 GMT
Thank you Darcy Collins! I am prolife but not anti legal abortion. Seriously it seems as though common sense has left the building every time this issue gets discussed. Common sense. No one is killing a baby during birth because "I just felt like after carrying the baby nine months I don't want to be a mother."
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Post by SockMonkey on Feb 2, 2019 19:33:41 GMT
I just peeped in and noticed that a thread about Virginia's racist governor is now an abortion argument and then was like, "WHY?" but remembered, "OH, because PEAS."
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sassyangel
Drama Llama
Posts: 7,456
Jun 26, 2014 23:58:32 GMT
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Post by sassyangel on Feb 2, 2019 20:41:38 GMT
I just peeped in and noticed that a thread about Virginia's racist governor is now an abortion argument and then was like, "WHY?" but remembered, "OH, because PEAS." It's also a surefire topic to really muddy the waters, when a thread doesn't go the way you anticipate. (not directed at the OP, but the person who went there first)
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Post by Merge on Feb 2, 2019 21:00:34 GMT
Honest question - why do so many women think so poorly of other women? Why do they think that there are so many women who would call for an abortion on the delivery table that we need legislation to prevent it. Seriously, in what universe is this necessary. The sad thing is everyone actually wants the same thing. Fewer unintended pregnancies. No one wants women to face the prospect of bringing a child into the world that they cannot care for - and make no mistake 80% of all abortions are conducted on POOR women. I doubt there's a person who is cavalier about continuing a pregnancy and choosing an abortion any later than absolutely necessary. There's a reason why as science has improved with both early pregnancy detection and safe medicinal abortion 91.1% of abortions are conducted in the first trimester - that's an improvement from decades ago and frankly I would love to see that number 100% Now why isn't it - well there's the 7.6% of women who terminate between 13-20 weeks (which is still before the point of viability so lets not get into ridiculous infanticide discussions). Unfortunately many of those women - and in many cases young women had more issues with the logistics of finding and paying for a provider. Sometimes they learned of the pregnancy late, feared telling partners and/or parents. Had to travel hundreds of miles to find a provider. Is it ideal - of course not and a full 70% of them state they would have liked to have an abortion earlier. I'd proposed improved access to long term birth control would probably help both these groups avoid abortions entirely, but again none of these 98.7% of abortions are relevant to the discussion. It's the 1.3% of abortions beyond 20 weeks that were being discussed. The category of abortions where it is already required that either the health of the mother or lack of viability of the fetus are required by a DOCTOR before an abortion is granted. And lets be clear, the legislation was to bring the required number of doctors signing off on the need for the abortion from 3 to 1 in order to obtain an abortion past 20 weeks in Virginia. In what dream world does someone believe in the throes of labor the attending doctor is going to sign of an elective abortion. I mean hell there's something like fewer than 10 doctors who even conduct 3rd trimester abortions. But sure some woman is going to suddenly decide to have an abortion during delivery and she just happens to have a doctor who not only is willing to sign of on the abortion but will actually perform the procedure. Perfectly said. Thank you.
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Post by mustlovecats on Feb 2, 2019 21:08:53 GMT
I just peeped in and noticed that a thread about Virginia's racist governor is now an abortion argument and then was like, "WHY?" but remembered, "OH, because PEAS." He was just in the news this week discussing some abortion legislation that people are all upset about. I can’t say I’m super surprised that this came out this week right after he pissed off the far right wing in the state while defending the doctor patient relationship.
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twinsmomfla99
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 3,974
Jun 26, 2014 13:42:47 GMT
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Post by twinsmomfla99 on Feb 2, 2019 21:13:41 GMT
That press conference was a train wreck.
The more he speaks, the more obvious it is that he needs to step down.
He is acting very Kavanaughish.
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