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Post by elaine on Feb 4, 2019 16:46:14 GMT
I am somewhat annoyed that I took the time to respond to you upthread and you are conveniently ignoring it. A large part of what is problematic to me, and a number of others, is his behavior over THE PAST FEW DAYS. Not 30+ years ago - 2 days ago. If he had responded differently and consistently to being confronted with those pictures, my thoughts and feelings about him would be different. But you seem determined to ignore that part of the equation - a number of us have said similar things. Correct me if I’m wrong, he had been told he needed to resign before he said one word. I have said that he messed up his response to this. My whole point is how many people demanded he resign based on that one picture before taking the time to find out if this guy was a closet racist. You are saying how he handled it made you decide he had to go. Fair enough. But many want him to resign regardless of how he had handled it. And that is what I’m having a problem with. They want him gone for that one picture from 30+ years ago period. end. of. discussion. I haven’t seen that here. And I don’t think that you can really make those blanket statements about many people because most didn’t hear of the incident - myself included - until after he already issued a statement admitting that it was himself in the pictures. And I live here in VA. I just happened to be at a movie when the story broke. I imagine a lot of people were also occupied on a Saturday afternoon and didn’t hear about the story until it was already developing and more than just “a photo was found. We are waiting for a comment from Northam.” And finally, people ARE discussing it. That is what we are doing here.
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Post by Peace Sign on Feb 4, 2019 16:54:17 GMT
Accepting responsibility is an issue. The truth is the rest. Did he LIE Friday night when he apologized? OR Did he LIE Saturday when he said it was not him? Can not be both!! Would anything he had said been acceptable? Or would the demand still be that he resign? Al Franken resigned so quickly after the photo of him leering at a woman's breasts came out. I thought that was overboard. And I wish he was still in office - we need his reasonable voice. But...he's not, and I bet he'll get a second life in politics if he wants it. Had the governor taken a similar stance, even if he hadn't resigned, it would have gone a long way. He's a liar. I think he needs to resign. But he could have said that he knew this picture would come to light eventually and he had been struggling over whether to show it himself, thus bringing hurt upon people, or to hope it never does. He could talk about relationships he has forged within the black community and what he has learned since medical school. He could say he made a big, big mistake and state why it's hurtful. Maybe that would have helped. But he chose to go with the typical politician's "deny, deny, deny" and now he's done. The only difference between blackface in the 80s and blackface today is the internet and social media. It was unacceptable then and it's unacceptable now. I'm a firm believer in most politics being local. That is to say that until it affects you directly, it really doesn't matter to you much. (Generally speaking) That says a lot about people's reactions to this.
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Deleted
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Mar 29, 2024 14:25:04 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Feb 4, 2019 17:04:34 GMT
Correct me if I’m wrong, he had been told he needed to resign before he said one word. I have said that he messed up his response to this. My whole point is how many people demanded he resign based on that one picture before taking the time to find out if this guy was a closet racist. You are saying how he handled it made you decide he had to go. Fair enough. But many want him to resign regardless of how he had handled it. And that is what I’m having a problem with. They want him gone for that one picture from 30+ years ago period. end. of. discussion. Personally, I feel taking that stance is only being consistent, and not a hypocrite. I didn't think Kavanaugh should be be appointed SCJ based on something that happened in his college days. I didn't think Trump was a fit President based on past behavior. Kavanaugh is a bad drunk who abused women and he had a history of it. It wasn’t just one time as people came out on how he acted when he drank too much. And more then one woman came forward on how he behaved when he was drunk. There is also questions on how, when working in the Bush White House, he handled a piece of information that was stolen from the Democrats in Congress. And how he got a chunk of money to pay off high credit card debit before his confirmation hearings started. trump has a history of being a racist going back to the 1980’s all way through to when he owned the casinos and wanted all the black employees to be out of his sight when he walked through the casino. And as you know there is a lot more with trump. This guy has one picture and certainty mishandled his response to it. But , with absence of any additional pictures or racist acts since that picture had been taken, and if he had apologized for the picture and left it at that, would that have been enough. My guess is no. The dye was cast the minute that picture surfaced.
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Post by femalebusiness on Feb 4, 2019 17:12:13 GMT
Did he lie? Yes. He lied when he said it was not him. The reason he only put “a little shoe polish” under his eyes when dressed as Michael Jackson is because when he wore the blackface in that picture he had a hell of a time getting it off of his face and he didn't want to hassle removing the polish again.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 4, 2019 17:51:38 GMT
Correct me if I’m wrong, he had been told he needed to resign before he said one word. I have said that he messed up his response to this. My whole point is how many people demanded he resign based on that one picture before taking the time to find out if this guy was a closet racist. You are saying how he handled it made you decide he had to go. Fair enough. But many want him to resign regardless of how he had handled it. And that is what I’m having a problem with. They want him gone for that one picture from 30+ years ago period. end. of. discussion. I haven’t seen that here. And I don’t think that you can really make those blanket statements about many people because most didn’t hear of the incident - myself included - until after he already issued a statement admitting that it was himself in the pictures. And I live here in VA. I just happened to be at a movie when the story broke. I imagine a lot of people were also occupied on a Saturday afternoon and didn’t hear about the story until it was already developing and more than just “a photo was found. We are waiting for a comment from Northam.” And finally, people ARE discussing it. That is what we are doing here. The thread was started at 3:51 with the Fox article that included his apology. Post at 4:03 - resign post at 4:07 - resign post at 4:17 - resign post at 4:29 - resign post at 4:31 “I voted for him and I think that he needs to resign. As soon as possible. There is no excusing away those pictures and what mindset they represent.”Then in typical pea fashion, the thread sort of derailed. So yea, people on this thread wanted him to resign regardless of how he handled it. Because he had apologized and there was still this call for him to resign. As far as the discussion went, until I asked my questions, it was pretty much agreeing with each other, going after “trolls, going after the Republicans who really should resign, but nothing about being this quick to judge. The minute that picture from the 80’s appeared that man was doomed and nothing he said or did all the years after that was going to change that. My guess is he will be gone by the end of the week.
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Post by mustlovecats on Feb 4, 2019 18:11:25 GMT
In other news, today allegations of sexual misconduct came out against the Lieutenant Governor. Via the same right wing website that broke the Northam story.
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Post by revirdsuba99 on Feb 4, 2019 19:06:30 GMT
Would anything he had said been acceptable? Or would the demand still be that he resign? I honestly don't know. I didn't even respond to this thread until after 10pm, and the other after 11pm although I did make earlier comments to Elains personal issue with he DS. He seems to have done better over the years, but when confronted with this issue, one day or the other he did not tell the truth.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 4, 2019 19:41:58 GMT
I knew folks weren’t going to be happy when I asked my questions. But after watching this play out over the weekend I felt I needed to.
I do believe people should be held accountable for their actions. I do believe politicians should be held to a higher standard. But sometime that higher standard is unattainable.
I believe when it comes to those sitting on the Supreme Court, they really should be held to have a “high moral character “ because they are not appointed by the people and it’s a lifetime appointment. Because of this I don’t believe Thomas should have been appointed. There were enough who supported what Anita Hill said that Reagan and those old white guys in the Senate should have said “we can do better” and not confirm him.
Kavanaugh should not even been nominated there was so much sleeze dripping from him that I doubt very much he has any moral character, let alone high moral character.
Then there are the elected officials.
Bill Clinton should never been elected because of his history of sexual abuse/harassment. I didn’t vote for him because of that.
Steve King should not only not be in Congress, he should never have bee re-elected by his constituents after his history of white nationalist remarks.
That Jim Jordan, the ex wrestling coach should not be in Congress because of the number of boys now men that came forward and said they told him they were being sexually molested and he did nothing, and yet he was re-elected.
Then you have the two Congressmen who were indicted and yet both were re-elected.
And let’s don’t forget trump. Even if you ignore his incoherent rambling, the man has a history or sexual harassment and racism that goes back for years. His homophobia and so many other things it’s hard to list them.
Now we have Northam, who has a picture of two guys on his yearbook page, one with blackface and one as a KKK. A yearbook from the mid 1980’s.
So the question is, is he a racist based on that one picture taken all those years ago? Some say absolutely, even though, at this point, nothing he has said or done since has surfaced are of a racist nature to support the belieff the man is a racist. In other words, does he have a history of being a racist?
The difference between Northam and the men I listed above, is that in every case there is either a history of the behavior, witnesses to the behavior, their own words spouting the disgusting beliefs, and in two cases actual indictments.
Now if Northam had been in a picture taken in the last 10 years like the one in question, I wouldn’t be raising the questions that I am.
No excuse for how he has handled this, but I have to wonder if it was a result of how quick people started to demand that he resign. It reminded me of a tidal wave or tsunami of demands that he resign. Watching his news conference, with the TV on mute, he looked like a deer caught in the headlights.
In any case, I suspect he will be gone by the end of the week. And a question we will each have to answer to ourselves is did he deserve this based on one picture taken all those years ago.
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Post by flanz on Feb 4, 2019 20:26:54 GMT
I haven't beyond page 1. I'm a progressive liberal and Democrat and I think he should resign. What happened 30+ years ago is reprehensible, but I think he actions of the last few days clearly show he is a racist and a con. I could never trust him again. OWN your pathetic past actions, make true apologies and maybe we can forgive you. In this case, probably not, but the wishy washy untruthful way he dealt with these photos popping up is deeply disturbing to me.
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Post by snowsilver on Feb 4, 2019 21:16:41 GMT
I was going to stay out of this fray as I have chosen to stay out of most of the political frays anymore.
However, Fred (and, yes I've rarely agreed with Fred on ANYTHING before although I like her) needs to know that she has some support on what she is trying to get across. I do not like this governor and I would never have voted for him, but I am appalled at this whole "kick him out" attitude that seems to be prevailing (at least on this forum).
All of us (including some of the very self-righteous ones condemning him) have skeletons in our closet. We've all done things (and maybe even forgotten them it was so many years ago and done in the culture of the moment) that we wouldn't be proud of today. But we mature, we learn, our views change. We become different and better people. At least some of us do. And in my opinion, those perhaps are the BEST able to serve us than the pure clean apostles we all seem to be clamoring for (and where do we find those anyway and would we even like them if we DID find them).
We're human. We make mistakes. We do dumb things. We move on and hope that by living decent and good lives we will be judged for who we are TODAY.
My son and I were talking the other night about the horrible choices we have these days for candidates. This is one reason why. Even the best of us worry about skeletons and some of those skeletons are really pretty frail considering the times we lived in when they became skeletons. Few really honorable men or women are willing to let their lives be shredded by declaring a run for political office. And we're making it worse by our actions in this very case. He did something dumb. It was a long time ago. Has he done it since? And not just HIM. There are any number of others that we are just too quick to rush to judgment on---(wondering here how many of the "high minded" judges would love to have their own lives exposed for all to look at. It is time for some "there but for the grace of God" consideration on all of our parts.
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Post by dewryce on Feb 4, 2019 21:38:24 GMT
I’ve been thinking more about this, and the best analogy I can come up with is this; for me, it’s like infidelity in a marriage. Some people feel that once that trust is broken, even if only one time, it can not be regained. The action was bad enough that the damage is permanent and they can’t move forward. For those that think there is hope and that it can be worked through, it will take a combination of things to make that happen. Things like starting from a place of complete honesty, fully taking responsibility for their actions not making excuses, asking for forgiveneness, making positive changes, not repeating the transgression or making a similar one. I don’t feel that all of those steps have happened in this circumstance.
I think that for some the thought that a 25 year old man could make light of, or stand shoulder to shoulder with someone who could make light of a group that so embodies discrimination, hate, and violence against another group of people is indefensible. And that for them, there is no recovery from that. No way to trust that this person could ever adequately represent that same group.
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Post by leftturnonly on Feb 4, 2019 21:49:03 GMT
What was the reaction when the first picture first came out by the public? If I’m not mistaken the call for him to resign started before he said anything. I said he messed up in his responses, but would the result been any different regardless of what he said? The demand he resign been any different? ETA Not trying to be a pain, but I’m thinking, that without other examples of his racist behavior during the last 30 years, people were too quick to call him a racist and demand he resign. I have not read the entire thread, so I apologize if I missed it... This is exactly what I was thinking. I'm not a Virginian. I wanted to hear what Virginians had to say. If they were still OK with how he had governed, then I would be more inclined to think the resignation demands were premature because the timing of the photo can not be overlooked. Northam responded pretty quickly, and he messed it up. As a governor, especially of a southern state, he needed to put out a very carefully crafted response that included his wearing blackface in imitation of Michael Jackson for a dance thing 30 some years ago and a definitive yes/no if that was him in the photo. The photo was a clear statement of racism. Deliberate inclusion of that photo on a page about Northam in a yearbook was a clear statement of racism by somebody. If he wasn't in the photo, someone still connected it to him at the time. IMO, the 35 years since then would have made it necessary to consider the man as he is today before claiming he is now a racist. He lost that grace with his responses and now must answer to the public for things that happened in the 1980s as if they happened last week. His first response needed to have been a mea culpa of some kind with a clear explanation of the actions he was responsible for.
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Post by SockMonkey on Feb 4, 2019 22:43:03 GMT
I haven't beyond page 1. I'm a progressive liberal and Democrat and I think he should resign. What happened 30+ years ago is reprehensible, but I think he actions of the last few days clearly show he is a racist and a con. I could never trust him again. OWN your pathetic past actions, make true apologies and maybe we can forgive you. In this case, probably not, but the wishy washy untruthful way he dealt with these photos popping up is deeply disturbing to me. Add to that the air of entitlement that accompanies the kind of apologies being made for this behavior. He's not entitled to the job. There are other qualified candidates (including his lt. gov) who aren't racist. These white men will be okay, really.
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Post by SockMonkey on Feb 4, 2019 22:44:55 GMT
What was the reaction when the first picture first came out by the public? If I’m not mistaken the call for him to resign started before he said anything. I said he messed up in his responses, but would the result been any different regardless of what he said? The demand he resign been any different? ETA Not trying to be a pain, but I’m thinking, that without other examples of his racist behavior during the last 30 years, people were too quick to call him a racist and demand he resign. I have not read the entire thread, so I apologize if I missed it... This is exactly what I was thinking. I'm not a Virginian. I wanted to hear what Virginians had to say. If they were still OK with how he had governed, then I would be more inclined to think the resignation demands were premature because the timing of the photo can not be overlooked. Northam responded pretty quickly, and he messed it up. As a governor, especially of a southern state, he needed to put out a very carefully crafted response that included his wearing blackface in imitation of Michael Jackson for a dance thing 30 some years ago and a definitive yes/no if that was him in the photo. The photo was a clear statement of racism. Deliberate inclusion of that photo on a page about Northam in a yearbook was a clear statement of racism by somebody. If he wasn't in the photo, someone still connected it to him at the time. IMO, the 35 years since then would have made it necessary to consider the man as he is today before claiming he is now a racist. He lost that grace with his responses and now must answer to the public for things that happened in the 1980s as if they happened last week. His first response needed to have been a mea culpa of some kind with a clear explanation of the actions he was responsible for. It may have helped if he unequivocally renounced the costume, the fact that it was in the yearbook, apologized profusely and gave examples of how he was not just not-racist, but actively anti-racist. Doing the fucking moonwalk ain't it.
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marimoose
Pearl Clutcher
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Jul 22, 2014 2:10:14 GMT
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Post by marimoose on Feb 4, 2019 22:56:23 GMT
I was going to stay out of this fray as I have chosen to stay out of most of the political frays anymore. However, Fred (and, yes I've rarely agreed with Fred on ANYTHING before although I like her) needs to know that she has some support on what she is trying to get across. I do not like this governor and I would never have voted for him, but I am appalled at this whole "kick him out" attitude that seems to be prevailing (at least on this forum). All of us (including some of the very self-righteous ones condemning him) have skeletons in our closet. We've all done things (and maybe even forgotten them it was so many years ago and done in the culture of the moment) that we wouldn't be proud of today. But we mature, we learn, our views change. We become different and better people. At least some of us do. And in my opinion, those perhaps are the BEST able to serve us than the pure clean apostles we all seem to be clamoring for (and where do we find those anyway and would we even like them if we DID find them). We're human. We make mistakes. We do dumb things. We move on and hope that by living decent and good lives we will be judged for who we are TODAY. My son and I were talking the other night about the horrible choices we have these days for candidates. This is one reason why. Even the best of us worry about skeletons and some of those skeletons are really pretty frail considering the times we lived in when they became skeletons. Few really honorable men or women are willing to let their lives be shredded by declaring a run for political office. And we're making it worse by our actions in this very case. He did something dumb. It was a long time ago. Has he done it since? And not just HIM. There are any number of others that we are just too quick to rush to judgment on---(wondering here how many of the "high minded" judges would love to have their own lives exposed for all to look at. It is time for some "there but for the grace of God" consideration on all of our parts. THANK YOU for saying all of this far more eloquently than i could ever have. I have little I could add to your post and will leave it with I agree fully with you. Never judge lest you open yourself up to the same judging.
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Post by papercrafteradvocate on Feb 4, 2019 23:05:06 GMT
My issue is that it’s not an equal playing field—-why is it that those who are democrats are demanded to resign RIGHT THIS MINUTE, yet Republican colleagues are actively displaying their racism right out in the open, but when it’s mentioned, Republicans always—ALWAYS attack and blame the democrats for “political posturing” instead of demanding their own resign?
I’m tired of the hypocritical, sanctimonious “right”.
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Just T
Drama Llama
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Jun 26, 2014 1:20:09 GMT
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Post by Just T on Feb 4, 2019 23:06:37 GMT
I was going to stay out of this fray as I have chosen to stay out of most of the political frays anymore. However, Fred (and, yes I've rarely agreed with Fred on ANYTHING before although I like her) needs to know that she has some support on what she is trying to get across. I do not like this governor and I would never have voted for him, but I am appalled at this whole "kick him out" attitude that seems to be prevailing (at least on this forum). All of us (including some of the very self-righteous ones condemning him) have skeletons in our closet. We've all done things (and maybe even forgotten them it was so many years ago and done in the culture of the moment) that we wouldn't be proud of today. But we mature, we learn, our views change. We become different and better people. At least some of us do. And in my opinion, those perhaps are the BEST able to serve us than the pure clean apostles we all seem to be clamoring for (and where do we find those anyway and would we even like them if we DID find them). We're human. We make mistakes. We do dumb things. We move on and hope that by living decent and good lives we will be judged for who we are TODAY. My son and I were talking the other night about the horrible choices we have these days for candidates. This is one reason why. Even the best of us worry about skeletons and some of those skeletons are really pretty frail considering the times we lived in when they became skeletons. Few really honorable men or women are willing to let their lives be shredded by declaring a run for political office. And we're making it worse by our actions in this very case. He did something dumb. It was a long time ago. Has he done it since? And not just HIM. There are any number of others that we are just too quick to rush to judgment on---(wondering here how many of the "high minded" judges would love to have their own lives exposed for all to look at. It is time for some "there but for the grace of God" consideration on all of our parts. Excellent post Snowsilver, and others who have written similar things.
I also want to say that I miss your posts!
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Post by SockMonkey on Feb 4, 2019 23:49:00 GMT
I was going to stay out of this fray as I have chosen to stay out of most of the political frays anymore. However, Fred (and, yes I've rarely agreed with Fred on ANYTHING before although I like her) needs to know that she has some support on what she is trying to get across. I do not like this governor and I would never have voted for him, but I am appalled at this whole "kick him out" attitude that seems to be prevailing (at least on this forum). All of us (including some of the very self-righteous ones condemning him) have skeletons in our closet. We've all done things (and maybe even forgotten them it was so many years ago and done in the culture of the moment) that we wouldn't be proud of today. But we mature, we learn, our views change. We become different and better people. At least some of us do. And in my opinion, those perhaps are the BEST able to serve us than the pure clean apostles we all seem to be clamoring for (and where do we find those anyway and would we even like them if we DID find them). We're human. We make mistakes. We do dumb things. We move on and hope that by living decent and good lives we will be judged for who we are TODAY. My son and I were talking the other night about the horrible choices we have these days for candidates. This is one reason why. Even the best of us worry about skeletons and some of those skeletons are really pretty frail considering the times we lived in when they became skeletons. Few really honorable men or women are willing to let their lives be shredded by declaring a run for political office. And we're making it worse by our actions in this very case. He did something dumb. It was a long time ago. Has he done it since? And not just HIM. There are any number of others that we are just too quick to rush to judgment on---(wondering here how many of the "high minded" judges would love to have their own lives exposed for all to look at. It is time for some "there but for the grace of God" consideration on all of our parts. Of course we have all messed up. But that doesn't mean there aren't consequences for that. We aren't owed anything for being sorry, and "it was the time" really isn't an excuse. Blackface and Klan hoods were never acceptable costumes, and are evidence that these folks clearly didn't know well or care deeply about people of color. Should "skeletons" create a situation in which one needs to contend with racist actions of the past, someone would need to deal with that. Dealing with that should look like acknowledging the act and the hurt it caused and accepting the consequences that come with that reckoning of past behavior. We really need to consider impact over intent, here. That photograph is harmful. His college nickname "Coonman" is harmful. His apology continued the harm. Add to all of this that he is the governor of a state in which battles continue over Confederate monuments, the confederate flag, and a man was severely beaten and a woman lost her life to white supremacists in Charlottesville. He has lost any credibility, and ability to lead in this area at this point, and for that reason, I believe he should step down. Here's a great piece on the impact of his actions. www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2019/02/ralph-northam-betrayed-black-voters-trust/581950/
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Post by revirdsuba99 on Feb 5, 2019 0:43:20 GMT
Friday he LIED when he apologized for being in the picture OR he LIED when he said he was not in the picture on Saturday. AGAIN you can NOT have it both ways..... His nickname was "COONMAN" for a reason!
HE LIED . That is the issue at this point!!
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Post by elaine on Feb 5, 2019 3:28:17 GMT
Friday he LIED when he apologized for being in the picture OR he LIED when he said he was not in the picture on Saturday. AGAIN you can NOT have it both ways..... His nickname was "COONMAN" for a reason! HE LIED . That is the issue at this point!! Yeah, well we already have one refugeepea who defended those fine people marching with the White Nationalists in Charlottesville now prattling on ad nauseum defending Northam’s racist past and present behavior to much applause. When we descended to that lowest level of discussion, I realized that I wasted too many brain cells trying to have a rational discussion about this topic here. It is this myopic group that are fine with obvious offenses against people of color, Jews, or women (or any color), but froth at the mouth and carry pitchforks if they feel Christianity isn’t given the absolute reverence they believe it is due in every corner of the world, including Walmart and Target cashiers in November and December. Thank you to leftturnonly for the first enjoyable political discussion that I’ve had with you in a long time. I can’t tell you how much I appreciate it. Thank you. Really.
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Post by leftturnonly on Feb 5, 2019 6:14:45 GMT
I can’t tell you how much I appreciate it. Thank you. Really. I just think we've had some miscommunications, and it has made me feel bad because I haven't been able to get you to understand that. Chalk it up to that plus a lot on both of our plates and that's what happens, especially on a message board where you can't see how the other person actually lives their life. That's the way I've seen it, any way.
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Post by carly1030 on Feb 5, 2019 15:49:38 GMT
All he has to do is hang tight and not give in, shortly he will be the savior of the democrats.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 5, 2019 18:48:09 GMT
I was going to stay out of this fray as I have chosen to stay out of most of the political frays anymore. However, Fred (and, yes I've rarely agreed with Fred on ANYTHING before although I like her) needs to know that she has some support on what she is trying to get across. I do not like this governor and I would never have voted for him, but I am appalled at this whole "kick him out" attitude that seems to be prevailing (at least on this forum). All of us (including some of the very self-righteous ones condemning him) have skeletons in our closet. We've all done things (and maybe even forgotten them it was so many years ago and done in the culture of the moment) that we wouldn't be proud of today. But we mature, we learn, our views change. We become different and better people. At least some of us do. And in my opinion, those perhaps are the BEST able to serve us than the pure clean apostles we all seem to be clamoring for (and where do we find those anyway and would we even like them if we DID find them). We're human. We make mistakes. We do dumb things. We move on and hope that by living decent and good lives we will be judged for who we are TODAY. My son and I were talking the other night about the horrible choices we have these days for candidates. This is one reason why. Even the best of us worry about skeletons and some of those skeletons are really pretty frail considering the times we lived in when they became skeletons. Few really honorable men or women are willing to let their lives be shredded by declaring a run for political office. And we're making it worse by our actions in this very case. He did something dumb. It was a long time ago. Has he done it since? And not just HIM. There are any number of others that we are just too quick to rush to judgment on---(wondering here how many of the "high minded" judges would love to have their own lives exposed for all to look at. It is time for some "there but for the grace of God" consideration on all of our parts. Very well said. I don't believe in judging someone on something they did 35 years ago when they wouldn't dream of doing today, what they did then, when they were still young, stupid and invincible. We've all come a long way from even 1984. My grace extends to the thought that what I grew up with and the influence I received from peers at the time might not be what he experienced. His experience might have been full of moments where things like that were considered harmless fun (it wasn't, but could have been the messages he was receiving) I can't judge someone on their action in 1984, by applying my experiences and today's standards to his decision. He didn't have the benefit of our experiences and the enlightenment he has in 2019 and all the years in between. Years he didn't have any other examples of racism.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 6, 2019 17:07:19 GMT
It would appear the state of Virginia has a mess on its hands.
You have Governor who has now been branded a racist because of an offensive picture from 35 years ago.
You have a Lt. Governor who has had sexual abuse charges made against him from 15 years ago.
And now you have this about the AG, who I understand would be next in line to be Governor if the other two are gone. “Virginia Attorney General Herring says he wore blackface in college”. It was in 1980.
And I think I read this morning the Republicans gained/kept control of the State House by pulling a name out of a hat after the election last year?
No wonder they say politics can be messy. If your a Republican, you are probably enjoying all this very much right now.
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Post by annabella on Feb 6, 2019 18:26:46 GMT
You have a Lt. Governor who has had sexual abuse charges made against him from 15 years ago. He's really clueless. He said that we should know she has an agenda as she only came out when he was promoted to a higher position. Well duh, she saw him on TV and thought well I don't think he deserves to have a high government position. As far as the Governor, I think you'll analyzing his comments too much, the fact of the matter is here is a man who doesn't want to lose his paycheck since he has no job to fall back on so he will do anything to stay in office. That's all it is. it's possible he honestly can't remember if he dressed up because doing so back then was shocking inconsequential to him. However how odd that ends up on his yearbook page. In my high school, we all submitted our own photos and designed our page. But apparently he went to a school that thought it was okay to print that. I worked on my school's yearbook and we reviewed every page, students and staff.
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Mystie
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 4,299
Jun 25, 2014 19:53:37 GMT
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Post by Mystie on Feb 6, 2019 18:58:07 GMT
I haven’t seen that here. And I don’t think that you can really make those blanket statements about many people because most didn’t hear of the incident - myself included - until after he already issued a statement admitting that it was himself in the pictures. And I live here in VA. I just happened to be at a movie when the story broke. I imagine a lot of people were also occupied on a Saturday afternoon and didn’t hear about the story until it was already developing and more than just “a photo was found. We are waiting for a comment from Northam.” And finally, people ARE discussing it. That is what we are doing here. The thread was started at 3:51 with the Fox article that included his apology. Post at 4:03 - resign post at 4:07 - resign post at 4:17 - resign post at 4:29 - resign post at 4:31 “I voted for him and I think that he needs to resign. As soon as possible. There is no excusing away those pictures and what mindset they represent.”Then in typical pea fashion, the thread sort of derailed. So yea, people on this thread wanted him to resign regardless of how he handled it. Because he had apologized and there was still this call for him to resign. As far as the discussion went, until I asked my questions, it was pretty much agreeing with each other, going after “trolls, going after the Republicans who really should resign, but nothing about being this quick to judge. The minute that picture from the 80’s appeared that man was doomed and nothing he said or did all the years after that was going to change that. My guess is he will be gone by the end of the week. Mine was the 4:07 post, and i just said it was inexcusable, because it is. And disgusting. But I didn't say he should resign. I can see both sides of the argument and I probably lean a little more toward your side of it @fred .
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Mystie
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 4,299
Jun 25, 2014 19:53:37 GMT
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Post by Mystie on Feb 6, 2019 19:03:27 GMT
It would appear the state of Virginia has a mess on its hands. You have Governor who has now been branded a racist because of an offensive picture from 35 years ago. You have a Lt. Governor who has had sexual abuse charges made against him from 15 years ago. And now you have this about the AG, who I understand would be next in line to be Governor if the other two are gone. “Virginia Attorney General Herring says he wore blackface in college”. It was in 1980. And I think I read this morning the Republicans gained/kept control of the State House by pulling a name out of a hat after the election last year? No wonder they say politics can be messy. If your a Republican, you are probably enjoying all this very much right now. Yes, in 2017 the Democratic candidate for the House seat won by one vote. The recount declared it a tie, and when they drew names, the Republican won. I took particular interest in the whole thing, because it was my district and I voted for the Democrat.
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Deleted
Posts: 0
Mar 29, 2024 14:25:04 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Feb 6, 2019 19:06:09 GMT
You have a Lt. Governor who has had sexual abuse charges made against him from 15 years ago. He's really clueless. He said that we should know she has an agenda as she only came out when he was promoted to a higher position. Well duh, she saw him on TV and thought well I don't think he deserves to have a high government position. As far as the Governor, I think you'll analyzing his comments too much, the fact of the matter is here is a man who doesn't want to lose his paycheck since he has no job to fall back on so he will do anything to stay in office. That's all it is. it's possible he honestly can't remember if he dressed up because doing so back then was shocking inconsequential to him. However how odd that ends up on his yearbook page. In my high school, we all submitted our own photos and designed our page. But apparently he went to a school that thought it was okay to print that. I worked on my school's yearbook and we reviewed every page, students and staff. I’m not analyzing his comments at all. What I’m looking at is how quickly it was demanded that he resign based on that one picture, even after he apologized and before he bombed at his press conference. Quick to judge and demand he resign without stepping back and asking the question is this man really a racist or someone who did something offensive 35 years ago that has not been repeated since? If I was calling the shots in Virginia, what I would do, if there was no history of additional racial acts or comments, I would let him serve out his term and then let the voters decide who they want to be Governor. The key here is no additional acts of racism. As it stands now, the voters who voted in a Democratic Governor, Lt. Gov, and an AG, could find themselves with Republicans in those positions that they did not vote for.
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Deleted
Posts: 0
Mar 29, 2024 14:25:04 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Feb 6, 2019 19:27:09 GMT
The thread was started at 3:51 with the Fox article that included his apology. Post at 4:03 - resign post at 4:07 - resign post at 4:17 - resign post at 4:29 - resign post at 4:31 “I voted for him and I think that he needs to resign. As soon as possible. There is no excusing away those pictures and what mindset they represent.”Then in typical pea fashion, the thread sort of derailed. So yea, people on this thread wanted him to resign regardless of how he handled it. Because he had apologized and there was still this call for him to resign. As far as the discussion went, until I asked my questions, it was pretty much agreeing with each other, going after “trolls, going after the Republicans who really should resign, but nothing about being this quick to judge. The minute that picture from the 80’s appeared that man was doomed and nothing he said or did all the years after that was going to change that. My guess is he will be gone by the end of the week. Mine was the 4:07 post, and i just said it was inexcusable, because it is. And disgusting. But I didn't say he should resign. I can see both sides of the argument and I probably lean a little more toward your side of it @fred . Correct, you should not been included in the group. I was trying to be careful and pick only those who had demanded he resign before the thread went off in a different direction. And I failed. My view is an unpopular one I know. But I worry the Democratic Party will become known as the “rigid intolerant” party. Which could be just as bad or worse then the “old white guy party of NO!” Certainly be the party of intolerance against any form of discrimination, racism is a form of discrimination I looked it up, but before we start labeling folks, we should take the time to make sure the label is justified.
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Deleted
Posts: 0
Mar 29, 2024 14:25:04 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Feb 8, 2019 15:38:32 GMT
My view is an unpopular one I know. But I worry the Democratic Party will become known as the “rigid intolerant” party. Which could be just as bad or worse then the “old white guy party of NO!” To be honest, the Democratic Party is already at that point. Intolerant is how they are so often described anymore based on the level of intolerance so often displayed by them anymore. Described just that way by people with big voices and big platforms, not just your average person.
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