zella
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 3,884 
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Post by zella on Feb 20, 2019 18:08:33 GMT
One more supporting piece of evidence: the head designer for Burberry is Riccardo Tisci. He is Italian, now lives in London I believe, but he has lived in the US. In New York. I mean, come on!
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Post by anniefb on Feb 20, 2019 18:14:45 GMT
Just disgusting.
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Deleted
Posts: 0
Apr 20, 2024 11:16:19 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Feb 20, 2019 18:17:06 GMT
I agree with you on everything but the hateful part. I don't think the designers put this together thinking of lynchings and being hateful. More than likely it was something along the lines of let's get creative with knot work instead of just letting the drawstring hang in a typical boring fashion. But you're right, someone should have seen what it looked like and said NOPE let's try again. Okay, even if that was the case, and they were intending noose-like accessories, could they not have picked any other kind of knot? Yeah, they really should have gone with any other choice of knot work. There's a lot to choose from. |
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Post by miominmio on Feb 20, 2019 18:23:00 GMT
Well, I guess we'll have to disagree on this. You CANNOT be a well-educated adult in Europe and be unaware of the US history surrounding racism anymore than you can be a well-educated adult in the US and be unaware of the Holocaust. We'll see if other British Peas chime in. So what you’re saying is that a noose can ONLY have something to do with the history of racism in the US? Not anything else? Because to me, that is what you’re saying. And since you are starting to get personal here, I am not going to argue with you anymore. Not everything in this world has to do with the US, believe it or not. |
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Deleted
Posts: 0
Apr 20, 2024 11:16:19 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Feb 20, 2019 18:25:02 GMT
I'm not sure that's very fair. Models don't get to choose what they wear and may not know what they're wearing until right before they walk. And this model doesn't appear to be high profile or highly experienced and she is probably pretty young - she's not some supermodel who has a lot of influence who might feel confident speaking up in the moment against the item. She would probably be scared about losing her job and tanking her career - fashion is a pretty small world. I give her a lot of credit for being brave enough to speak up at all, even after the fact. True they don’t get to choose the clothes they wear. But they do get to choose who they work for. I was hoping the metoo movement helped women feel they could speak out against hostile working situations. I guess I feel at some point the person zipping their lips should speak up. See something inappropriate? Say something! I don't think movements work that fast. You have to keep at it and give it time to sink in. Not everyone comes to the same understanding at the same pace. So she's (the model) likely trying to speak up to someone who hasn't become enlightened enough yet. Or they're just trying to get the job done and will use any means of pressure ("it's just fashion") to make it happen (get her on the runway). It takes time for it to become truly universal and even then... Look how far we've come from the civil rights movement and yet... |
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Post by busy on Feb 20, 2019 18:26:16 GMT
I'm not sure that's very fair. Models don't get to choose what they wear and may not know what they're wearing until right before they walk. And this model doesn't appear to be high profile or highly experienced and she is probably pretty young - she's not some supermodel who has a lot of influence who might feel confident speaking up in the moment against the item. She would probably be scared about losing her job and tanking her career - fashion is a pretty small world. I give her a lot of credit for being brave enough to speak up at all, even after the fact. True they don’t get to choose the clothes they wear. But they do get to choose who they work for. I was hoping the metoo movement helped women feel they could speak out against hostile working situations. I guess I feel at some point the person zipping their lips should speak up. See something inappropriate? Say something! SHE DID! At her fitting, and was brushed off, and then publicly after the show. Maybe it was a few days later, but good god, haven't you ever had a job situation that was fraught with risk and difficult to decide exactly what to do about? Especially when you were young - probably late teens or early 20s? Doing the right thing isn't always easy or on the perfect time schedule. |
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Post by busy on Feb 20, 2019 18:40:01 GMT
When we malign people who DO speak up when they see something but don't do it in EXACTLY THE PERFECT WAY WE WANT THEM TO, we are making it less likely for others to speak up in the future.
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freebird
Drama Llama
'cause I'm free as a bird now
Posts: 6,927
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Post by freebird on Feb 20, 2019 18:40:10 GMT
True they don’t get to choose the clothes they wear. But they do get to choose who they work for. I was hoping the metoo movement helped women feel they could speak out against hostile working situations. I guess I feel at some point the person zipping their lips should speak up. See something inappropriate? Say something! SHE DID! At her fitting, and was brushed off, and then publicly after the show. Maybe it was a few days later, but good god, haven't you ever had a job situation that was fraught with risk and difficult to decide exactly what to do about? Especially when you were young - probably late teens or early 20s? Doing the right thing isn't always easy or on the perfect time schedule. From what I read briefly, SHE is the one that called them out! Now people want to bash her for it? Girl gets her head straight and says "this was wrong, I wish I hadn't participated." and a bunch of women beat her down... as usual.
hindsight is 20/20. She probably immediately thought it was a terrible idea. I think the hoodie/noose combo is super racist. I didn't even think about suicide until I read what she said. |
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Post by pierkiss on Feb 20, 2019 19:08:27 GMT
JFC!! 😠 Why would anyone, any corporation, think that could ever be okay?!?! Do you realize how many people had to "touch" that idea from conception to finished marketed product, and yet it still went through?! Hateful, hideous people. I feel like fashion houses are testing the waters to see with just how much racism will be tolerated in our society these days. There have been a lot of incidents like this in recent memory. You would think the backlash from the people would have made them hyper-sensitive to this sort of thing, but that doesn’t seem to be the case. |
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Post by Prenticekid on Feb 20, 2019 19:30:30 GMT
Well, I guess we'll have to disagree on this. You CANNOT be a well-educated adult in Europe and be unaware of the US history surrounding racism anymore than you can be a well-educated adult in the US and be unaware of the Holocaust. We'll see if other British Peas chime in. So what you’re saying is that a noose can ONLY have something to do with the history of racism in the US? Not anything else? Because to me, that is what you’re saying. And since you are starting to get personal here, I am not going to argue with you anymore. Not everything in this world has to do with the US, believe it or not. So, what is your non-triggering, non-killing, fashionable take on it? What is the acceptable reason for using a noose on apparel? What spiffy portrayal of the noose in fashion has nothing to do with racsim in the US? |
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DEX
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 3,354
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Post by DEX on Feb 20, 2019 19:37:56 GMT
I just might agree with miominmio. It is hideous but I am not sure it was as some described: racist. This was shown at London Fashion Week. Now if it were shown in NY, I think my response might be different. You are right, moiminmio, the world does not revolve around the US. I think it was in poor taste (my mind immediately went to suicide) and I think poor judgment on the part of the designer was used.
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Post by crimsoncat05 on Feb 20, 2019 19:42:23 GMT
So, what is your non-triggering, non-killing, fashionable take on it? What is the acceptable reason for using a noose on apparel? What spiffy portrayal of the noose in fashion has nothing to do with racsim in the US? she did NOT say it was non-triggering, or non-killing-- or that it was fashionable. She said there could be OTHER reasons besides racism for people to be offended by a noose. Death by hanging was not only done in the racist US South, and people have died by suicide via using a noose. |
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joelise
Drama Llama
Posts: 5,649
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Post by joelise on Feb 20, 2019 20:17:39 GMT
Well, I guess we'll have to disagree on this. You CANNOT be a well-educated adult in Europe and be unaware of the US history surrounding racism anymore than you can be a well-educated adult in the US and be unaware of the Holocaust. We'll see if other British Peas chime in. So what you’re saying is that a noose can ONLY have something to do with the history of racism in the US? Not anything else? Because to me, that is what you’re saying. And since you are starting to get personal here, I am not going to argue with you anymore. Not everything in this world has to do with the US, believe it or not. I agree with miominmio, when I saw the photo I immediately thought medieval England. The model is wearing that style of clothing. She looks like she is off to the gallows. I didn’t think that the intention was racist. I think it is an extremely tasteless thing to do, but then I think there are many tasteless things at fashion shows! I don’t normally comment on these threads but I felt the need to defend miominmio. I’m British. |
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Post by revirdsuba99 on Feb 20, 2019 20:31:09 GMT
Okay, even if that was the case, and they were intending noose-like accessories, could they not have picked any other kind of knot? Not like nooses have not been in the news big time lately! They could have cut the rope just before she walked down the runway. They had time enough!! ETA: Gallows were rather common in years past... As in public hanging in many cultures. |
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wellway
Prolific Pea
Posts: 8,759
Jun 25, 2014 20:50:09 GMT
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Post by wellway on Feb 20, 2019 20:35:35 GMT
Well, since my cousin's son hung himself last week that's what I saw. I hope he and his wife didn't see this story.
For the record, since we live in different countries, it's years since I've seen my cousin and I hadn't met his son but still I ache for them and the agony they must be feeling.
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Post by flanz on Feb 20, 2019 20:36:40 GMT
This is disgusting. But I agree, the brand is now being talked about. I hope it becomes obsolete!
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joelise
Drama Llama
Posts: 5,649
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Post by joelise on Feb 20, 2019 20:37:45 GMT
Well, since my cousin's son hung himself last week that's what I saw. I hope he and his wife didn't see his story. For the record, since we live in different countries, it's years since I've seen my cousin and I hadn't met his son but still I ache for them and the agony they must be feeling. I’m sorry to hear this. How awful for everyone. I too hope they didn’t see this story. |
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Post by revirdsuba99 on Feb 20, 2019 20:39:02 GMT
wellway so very sorry for your loss.
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Post by gillyp on Feb 20, 2019 20:46:01 GMT
My first thought was suicide too. This has been prevalent in the news here for the last 12 months highlighted by this “display” www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.washingtonpost.com/amphtml/news/worldviews/wp/2018/03/26/84-statues-appear-on-london-roofs-in-a-startling-suicide-awareness-campaign/ together with our young Princes, in particular Harry, discussing mental health issues and suicide publicly to raise awareness. With it being London Fashion Week I feel Burberry have jumped on the bandwagon in a very crass and disturbing manner. Surely designed to shock only and generate publicity and they should be thoroughly ashamed of themselves. A large donation to mental health charities would not go amiss. On this side of the pond to associate that image with racism would probably only occur to about 5% of the population imho. I speak as a Brit who is aware of how it would be viewed in the US. |
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Post by sean&marysmommy on Feb 20, 2019 20:47:57 GMT
I'm confused. On the model's IG post, she said she was NOT the one who wore the noose. Am I reading the wrong thing?
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Post by gillyp on Feb 20, 2019 20:47:58 GMT
wellway I am so very sorry for your family’s loss. That will be such a shock for you all. Much love to you.
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Post by jenjie on Feb 20, 2019 20:53:35 GMT
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muggins
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 2,861
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Post by muggins on Feb 20, 2019 21:09:13 GMT
I'm confused. On the model's IG post, she said she was NOT the one who wore the noose. Am I reading the wrong thing? No you’re reading it correctly. She did not wear the look herself but saw it at the fitting. |
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Deleted
Posts: 0
Apr 20, 2024 11:16:19 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Feb 20, 2019 21:43:48 GMT
Well, since my cousin's son hung himself last week that's what I saw. I hope he and his wife didn't see this story. For the record, since we live in different countries, it's years since I've seen my cousin and I hadn't met his son but still I ache for them and the agony they must be feeling. I’m so sorry wellway ,what an awful tragedy for you all as a family. |
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J u l e e
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Posts: 6,531
Location: Cincinnati
Jun 28, 2014 2:50:47 GMT
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Post by J u l e e on Feb 20, 2019 21:47:28 GMT
(((HUGS))) wellwayI immediately thought of lynching. I can understand different people coming away with different reactions. Either way (lynching/suicide), I think it's pretty awful. |
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Post by tracyarts on Feb 20, 2019 21:59:57 GMT
I have modeled in fashion shows. People are messing with your face, messing with your hair, messing with your clothes, swapping out accessories and shoes, barking orders, rushing people around, sometimes literally dragging them into place. Last minute changes are made, it is usually a crowded space, it is utter chaos. I have absolutely NO problem believing that she might not have understood what she was wearing until after the fact. Someone could have very well shoved the noose at herand screeched to put it on as she was being herded onto the runway, and she assumed it was just a necklace and put it on without looking closely at it. I've had that kind of thing happen to me, it could have happened to her. I like how the model is slamming them and saying how ashamed she is for being a part of this. ...but she put it on and walked in it. I mean did she not see the clothing as it was put on her body? Outrage after the fact seems hollow. |
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Post by moretimeplease on Feb 20, 2019 22:06:55 GMT
FYI - The model who brought this up is NOT the one who wore this crap in the show.
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muggins
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 2,861
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Post by muggins on Feb 20, 2019 22:54:12 GMT
I have modeled in fashion shows. People are messing with your face, messing with your hair, messing with your clothes, swapping out accessories and shoes, barking orders, rushing people around, sometimes literally dragging them into place. Last minute changes are made, it is usually a crowded space, it is utter chaos. I have absolutely NO problem believing that she might not have understood what she was wearing until after the fact. Someone could have very well shoved the noose at herand screeched to put it on as she was being herded onto the runway, and she assumed it was just a necklace and put it on without looking closely at it. I've had that kind of thing happen to me, it could have happened to her. I like how the model is slamming them and saying how ashamed she is for being a part of this. ...but she put it on and walked in it. I mean did she not see the clothing as it was put on her body? Outrage after the fact seems hollow. Although I fully appreciate that backstage at a runway show might be chaotic and outfits modified at the last minute. That doesn’t seem to be the case here. She did not wear the noose. She explains clearly in her Instagram post that she saw it during a fitting and raised concerns which were dismissed. She wasn’t caught by surprise during the show. |
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Post by gar on Feb 20, 2019 23:26:30 GMT
One more supporting piece of evidence: the head designer for Burberry is Riccardo Tisci. He is Italian, now lives in London I believe, but he has lived in the US. In New York. I mean, come on! Supporting piece of evidence? What are you, judge and jury? As another Brit on this thread I’ll add that suicide was my first thought too. Just because I am aware of the context you see (racism, KKK) doesn’t mean it’s my first thought. You may have been born and educated here but obviously now you see things through US eyes. Are there enough British responses for you now? |
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Post by gar on Feb 20, 2019 23:38:14 GMT
What spiffy portrayal of the noose in fashion has nothing to do with racsim in the US? Suicide and capital punishment in England since the Anglo Saxon era. |
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