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Post by leftturnonly on Feb 22, 2019 1:40:52 GMT
My son was diagnosed at age 5. He is on the gifted and I took him in for testing for giftedness and the psychologist figured it out while testing him. My daughter was in the gifted classes as well. The teacher would ask a question expecting a couple of words for an answer and my daughter would want to give two sentences, except she couldn't get her hand to do what she wanted it to. I would beg the school to let her do some of her work verbally. I even asked them -- at a huge meeting of school personnel gathered to discuss my child -- what they would do if she had either no arms or 2 broken arms. I was told she'd go to the "special" school. What the Hell? She was in the gifted class!
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Post by leftturnonly on Feb 22, 2019 1:55:14 GMT
I have never had a diagnosis . My writing is awful. I actually have to think very carefully just to write my name. My daughter is the same way. She really has to concentrate to get her own name right. She doesn't need to sign things very often and so it's actually harder than most other things for her to write. And I would hesitate to diagnose a seven year old with SLD in writing (written expression) and most schools would. Even more, with technology accessible to most every child these days, that’s a tough diagnosis to show adverse educational impact and the need for specially designed instruction. You never spent the day with my daughter when she was 7 years old. The problem become overtly apparent when she was 5. Every.single.solitary.day in school it was apparent.
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Dani-Mani
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 3,706
Jun 28, 2014 17:36:35 GMT
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Post by Dani-Mani on Feb 22, 2019 3:30:40 GMT
I have never had a diagnosis . My writing is awful. I actually have to think very carefully just to write my name. My daughter is the same way. She really has to concentrate to get her own name right. She doesn't need to sign things very often and so it's actually harder than most other things for her to write. And I would hesitate to diagnose a seven year old with SLD in writing (written expression) and most schools would. Even more, with technology accessible to most every child these days, that’s a tough diagnosis to show adverse educational impact and the need for specially designed instruction. You never spent the day with my daughter when she was 7 years old. The problem become overtly apparent when she was 5. Every.single.solitary.day in school it was apparent. And you don’t spend every day with 200 seven year olds. Again, it’s about perspective and as a parent, your child will always stand out compared to others because you’re viewing things in isolation. OP, I wish you the best in finding answers and really hope you and the school can find a happy solution.
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Post by scrapmaven on Feb 22, 2019 5:32:19 GMT
Write a letter requesting she be tested. They don’t like testing kidscearly because it costs money for services and kids get labeled, but if you as parent thinks it is best and are sure, they will have to do it. put it in writing. Again, not true. Do you know how many parents request testing because their first grader has messy writing or writes things backwards? Do you know how developmentally appropriate that is? But isolation, it’s very concerning to parents. A criteria for IDEA for a learning disability is exposure to curriculum or evidence based learning is evident. That’s not a determination I can make after a year in kindergarten. This is why states are extending the developmentally delayed category for preschoolers until they’re older; I’m not giving a five year old a “label” for the hell of it. It’s not ethically appropriate AT ALL. I completely understand what you're saying and I would never argue w/an expert, which you clearly are. However, I'm basing my info on personal experience as both an LD student and as the mother of a kid who has a 504 and a relative of someone who was refused services for speech therapy. The district refused to provide services and it took legal action to get the child the help he needed. My expertise is in the area of having dysgraphia for almost 60 years and fighting in both grades k-12 and college to get the services I needed. This was years ago, but it is relevant.
In my son's case we requested an IEP for ADD and other issues, based upon an outside diagnosis and we were able to get a 504, which is what he needed. However, this happened in middle school. Getting the teachers to stick to the 504 was another story. It has helped, because it followed him to college. In my case, it was very clear that something was wrong and no one took it seriously until I was in third grade. Even then the diagnosis was useless. Why was this kid an advanced reader, but couldn't solve a math problem or write a legible sentence? As an intelligent kid I was one of the top 2 readers in my class in the mornings and then special ed in the afternoons where I was able to stare at the wall for 2 stupid hours, because dysgraphia was way over their heads. Friends of mine were able to get LD diagnosis for their children much earlier than 2nd grade. That is why I wrote what I wrote. You would know better than I, but how do I explain the services that were offered to these children in kindergarten? Some of my friends did have to fight the district and w/a lot of hard work were able to succeed at getting the proper services within the district.
I'm certainly not suggesting that parents push their way into your office in order to bully you into testing their children. I would hope that they would approach this as a partnership and be kind and open w/you. My grizzly bear comment is in relation to the bureaucracy of some district personnel who refuse to act in the best interest of the students.
The sooner this little girl is tested the sooner she can get the help she needs to be a successful student. If other children are able to get these tests in kindergarten then why not this little girl?
If I had to hand write this post you would be very hard pressed to read it.
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Post by Really Red on Feb 22, 2019 9:46:40 GMT
ETA: Sorry for the diatribe. I am stressed about flooding in my house and cannot sleep and this is an issue about which I am passionate. We do such a disservice to all our kids by assuming everyone learns the same way and my son was a victim to that even though he was diagnosed at 7yo. notjstamom My son was diagnosed with dysgraphia at 7 years old. Early diagnosis is really REALLY important. We paid for ours. I had never heard of dysgraphia at the time. scrapmaven I could have written your story. My son couldn't write, but I wasn't worried about that. There was clearly a disconnect from what he knew to what he was able to convey in writing. Our wonderful psychologist told us that if the sun was shining he could do well or maybe if the sun was shining he couldn't do anything. That is to say there is no one thing that could make my son do the written work that was needed. One day he might shine and then next he might not be able to do anything. Testing at 7yo told us he had an IQ that surpassed the max they could test for (at the time 147 for 7yos), but his rote IQ was 80!! The last testing he had at 16yo (he's 18 now) his rote IQ was slightly higher 85? and his other IQ was over 160. The difference between the IQs makes it very, very difficult for him to function well. His command of the language was post college level at 7yo, but even at 16yo, his writing has never gotten past 7yo. All this testing means nothing. His school told me that they would not give him accommodations, period. He scored perfectly on tests and that was all that counted. He was accepted into a gifted public school for 3rd-5th grade. The work they had to do there!! He could not do it. His great teacher told him to stop all homework (except projects) and then he got straight A's. He couldn't handle the overload of work. For example, he would have 20 spelling words given on Monday, with a test on Friday. He knew POSSIBLY one word on Monday. Most of the class knew 18-20 words on Monday. We would learn the spelling. Restaurant: Rest (he could spell that) Ant (he could spell that) So I'd say "The ants are going to the restaurant" "to the" is "au" in French, so spell restaurant. The ants a re going to the restaurant. Every word was that complicated. In 4th grade, his math teacher called me aside and asked me to stop doing his homework for him. She had a Master's in gifted education and was teaching in a school for gifted students and she still thought he was cheating because he looked out the window when she was teaching. I told her he was listening, but she said no, he's not. She said she asked him what she just said and he couldn't tell her. I was like AARGH!!! Of course he can't tell you word for word what you said (this is what he thought she was asking), but if you asked him a specific question about what you just taught, he could have answered it. I went to the principal and told him what happened and had my 504 hearing. FWIW, over the years many other teachers told me to stop doing my son's homework for him. Hah! He never even told me he had homework! So here in the US, you want a 504, not an IEP (most likely). A 504 balances out differences. It's like if you gave a Braille book to a blind person so she could read. The blind person can do everything the other kids can do except see, so you're helping her with that. My son got extra time to take his tests and he could bring a computer with him to do his work. That and no bubble sheets were all he needed. But getting people to follow the 504 is VERY VERY hard. One teacher in middle school asked me why he played with his toys (!) the whole class. She said he didn't belong in her class (he was 3 years ahead in math at this point) because he struggled with tests. But weekly they had math bees and he won every one of them the entire year. He just could not take her tests. In HS, he had a history teacher who wouldn't put him in AP History. Why? Because he didn't have an 88 in English. I talked to the history teacher after my son tried everything. History teacher told me "Your son knows even more than I do and is the best in the school, but you need an 88 in English to take AP History." AARGH! This teacher gave out 3 A's out of 90 or so students and one to my son. He had a 94 of his final paper for history, but that didn't matter. So he took regular history and the AP History exam in 10th grade and got a 5 on it. He did that on his own and I was so proud of him. I tell you these stories, because you have years ahead of you where your child is going to face different struggles. My son hates being different and using tools (he thinks it's cheating), he still cannot do homework well (and many issues because of that), but he's learned so many great things by having a learning disability. He is SO so tolerant of everyone and he is kind and helpful to those who need help. He is always tutoring someone in something. He can say it, just not write it down! Please pay to get your daughter tested. It is worth the money. Then have her work daily on a computer, that helps too. Please do not have her sit down after school and work on homework. That was a mistake I made and it was awful. These kids need to free their minds so they can do it all over the next day at school. My son has two older sisters and we were always in the car. We learned in the car. I told him he could either do his HW at the table or we could talk about it in the car or at the store and he chose that way. He learned so much. A lot more effort for you, but worthwhile in the end. There was a lot of talk about special pencil holders when my son was younger, but they did not work for him and with the advent of computers, I don't think it is necessary. Good luck! You are your child's best advocate!!!
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Post by Patter on Feb 22, 2019 11:08:49 GMT
I hope my post was not misunderstood. We never, ever requested an IEP. We requested complete testing. The school only wanted to test for dyslexia. We absolutely knew she did NOT have dyslexia. They were requesting a test that did not make any sense. We then requested complete testing (anything and everything they could test for) because we knew there were things going on but not sure what. They ended up finding several things but she was not dyslexic. Funny how what they thought did not show up at all. We also got outside testing done after the schools results. Outside of school, she qualified for PT and OT. The school refused to provide PT services but did provide OT services along with several other things (classroom modifications, pullout instruction, etc.). We didn't always agree with the school but worked with them. That little girl is now a senior in college and will graduate with her special education teaching degree this year! That is how much she was helped and loved by her elementary teachers. Had she not gotten services beginning in 1st grade, I think it would have been a much more difficult road waiting until 4th grade or so. She was only in public school through 7th grade then homeschooled the rest of her years. Research and follow what you know in your heart is right for your child. Hugs!
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Post by threegirls on Feb 22, 2019 14:20:44 GMT
As a previous poster mentioned, look at having her tested at a children's hospital (if you have one close). We are lucky and our school district will usually accept the test results from our children's hospital. Although there was no guarantee.
We had our youngest tested at our hospital and it was one of the best things we ever did. They provided us with so much useful information including resources available outside of the school system. Check your insurance, testing might be covered. Also insurance might cover some therapies (like occupational).
We became so fed up with the constant bureaucracy (and other things) that we switched our two girls that have learning disabilities to a private school dedicated to dyslexia/dysgraphia/dyscalculia/ADHD. Life has been so much easier since the switch!
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Post by twinks on Feb 22, 2019 17:00:00 GMT
I hope my post of some recommendations didn't get misunderstood either.
That being said, nothing I recommended was of any harm or did it take away from the importance of educators. As a parent, you need to know what is going on with your child so you can help them be successful in all areas of their lives and know how to best advocate for them and teach them to advocate for themselves.
I wish I had the book I recommended long before I did. Parents are at a disadvantage sometimes when facing the professionals. Knowledge is power, both as school professionals and parents. Having some information on how to navigate the special education system doesn't hurt anyone. The most important thing is how you approach it. Like others have stated, you don't start by asking for an IEP. You start by requesting, in writing, for testing and listing some of your observations.
My experience with our neuropsychological evaluation was that it addressed things that could be done in the school. My DD was already in OT, Speech and PT privately through our local children's hospital on a weekly basis, some therapies bi-weekly. The neuropsyh evaluation recommended some things for the school (ie. fine motor accommodations, central auditory processing accommodations, etc.)
Our experience with the school system was less than favorable. The school psychologist did a battery of tests on my DD when she was in the early intervention pre-school and told us that my DD was severely intellectually impaired (however she used the words "Mentally Retarded.") As a mother, that didn't fit to what I was observing. Yes, she had problems - hence, all the therapies, but, nothing like severely intellectually impaired. As a former teacher myself, I had been working with my DD as well. None of her therapists nor her physicians felt that the findings were correct. That is when I placed her at our local university for Kindergarten and started to have other private testing. I took my DD back to public school for 1st grade, armed with additional testing. My DD at the time tested out on the Woodcock Johnson as on grade level or above on all subjects. However, the school personnel didn't accept it. So my DD ended up attending 3 different 1st grade placements in 3 different schools. Her educational career spiraled downward from there. She did have some good teachers along the way. Her 3rd grade teacher said to me during my first parent/teacher conference, "I think your daughter can read." I looked at her and said, "I know she can read! She is reading all the time at home." She was shocked and I listed some of the books she was reading. Bottom line, after sitting at home for 3 years with an expired IEP and 3 private, independent neuropsychological evaluations along with a 4th at school district expense, I filed for Due Process. I prevailed in our first mediation meeting with an unprecedented settlement. My DD then attended a private, special education school (Riverview School) and totally succeeded! She graduated from high school and attended classes at the local community college. She currently has a job. I just remember the head of school saying to me, "I have never met a more misunderstood and therefore, mistreated student!" I ran into the Special Education Director for our local school district a couple of years ago. Even she said that my "filing for Due Process was the best thing that I could have done for my daughter." She further stated that they "refer and use some of my resources and my daughter's accommodations all the time when they have students who don't fit the mold." I am just grateful that I could help them so that another student doesn't have to suffer the way my DD did.
I can't totally fault the school personnel. My DD has a non definitive diagnosis. It is a hard situation. I can see both sides. Limited funds and other resources and 200+ other students to work with.
This is an area that I am pretty passionate about.
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Post by leftturnonly on Feb 22, 2019 18:52:23 GMT
And you don’t spend every day with 200 seven year olds. Again, it’s about perspective and as a parent, your child will always stand out compared to others because you’re viewing things in isolation. Untrue. I went into the classroom and basically worked as an unpaid assistant for my child. The teachers came to me and told me that she was very bright, but they had no idea what was wrong with her. I'm not as stupid as you're making me sound here. At the age of 5, in the classroom, my child very clearly stood out as different from the other children in this regard, and that difference only became more pronounced as time went on. I also worked with groups of children her age in other situations. Again. She always stood out as different. Your attitude, telling me that I'm just a parent who doesn't know my own child is downright rude and even after all of these years, it makes my blood boil. You've absolutely no idea what an uphill battle it was trying to get the school to do a damn thing for my child. It put such a strain on our family that homeschooling her myself became easier. I like you, Dani, but at this moment... not so much.
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Deleted
Posts: 0
Jun 14, 2024 0:28:50 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Feb 22, 2019 21:23:54 GMT
Thank you Leftturnonly for saying what I was having trouble saying.
I am so glad that my 2 special needs kids IEP team members are caring, open, understanding, and listen with open ears. I could only imagine that shit that would go down if any of the team members were are rude as Dani.
It hurts to feel put down because I am not a professional. I may not have a degree in child whatever but I DO have a degree in ds and dd. No one, no one understands them better than me. While their team members only see them 30 min to an hour 1-2 days a week (except for teachers). They have no clue what they are like.
I too was an unpaid para for both kids. I took data. I researched. I presented concrete data and info to the teams at IEP meetings.
There is a meme about IEPs that is very true.
"I don't always get my way at IEP Meetings, but when I do it is because I had supportive evidence to back up my request."
And that is how it is every single time. I have been at this for 10 freaking years.
Just because I am only a mom doesn't mean I don't know what I am talking about. I have proven time and time again that I know better than professionals and have given my children opportunities and help that maybe otherwise would have not been offered if I didnt know my way around an IEP meeting.
To the other moms, LISTEN TO YOUR GUT!!! Do what is best for your child and don't worry about the other 200 that a professional sees. Because you meet 1 child with special needs, you have met 1 child with special needs.
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Post by leftturnonly on Feb 22, 2019 22:00:30 GMT
Thank you Leftturnonly for saying what I was having trouble saying. I am so glad that my 2 special needs kids IEP team members are caring, open, understanding, and listen with open ears. I could only imagine that shit that would go down if any of the team members were are rude as Dani. It hurts to feel put down because I am not a professional. I may not have a degree in child whatever but I DO have a degree in ds and dd. No one, no one understands them better than me. While their team members only see them 30 min to an hour 1-2 days a week (except for teachers). They have no clue what they are like. I too was an unpaid para for both kids. I took data. I researched. I presented concrete data and info to the teams at IEP meetings. There is a meme about IEPs that is very true. "I don't always get my way at IEP Meetings, but when I do it is because I had supportive evidence to back up my request." And that is how it is every single time. I have been at this for 10 freaking years. Just because I am only a mom doesn't mean I don't know what I am talking about. I have proven time and time again that I know better than professionals and have given my children opportunities and help that maybe otherwise would have not been offered if I didnt know my way around an IEP meeting. To the other moms, LISTEN TO YOUR GUT!!! Do what is best for your child and don't worry about the other 200 that a professional sees. Because you meet 1 child with special needs, you have met 1 child with special needs. My daughter was a child before we had such widespread availability of information on the Internet. The only thing I found I was able to do was to get a 504 plan for her, and that was only able because she was diabetic. The promises outright lies I was told they would do for her would make your chair spin. The school district was in huge trouble with the state and were only too happy when we withdrew our child so she was no longer their problem. I DID take her to professionals. I DID demand the school do a proper evaluation. I even had to bring a younger child with me into the classrooms just to care for this daughter because I had no one to babysit. Tellin' me I'm too isolated to have a clue! Damn it all to Hell. I AM PISSED! At least the freakin' school acknowledged that she had problems. They just refused to do a damn thing about it other than hold meetings about how to get out of their responsibilities. But this nonsense of 200 kids is too many to evaluate one child early and you have to wait and see until 4th grade! My God. This is why kids become suicidal.
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