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Post by melodyesch on Mar 16, 2019 16:57:22 GMT
First off, I adore my niece (14). When we're together I have a great time and she is fun to be around. But when you add her Mom to the mix (my DH's sister, whom I also love), it gets hairy and I get so irritated. And I guess I should preface this by saying that my DH and I do not have children (by choice). So I really, really have no business being all judgy about parenting styles. The only experience I have with a parent/child relationship is the one between me and my parents.
Anyway, just as an example. We were at my house and SIL had her hands full doing something. She asked, "Niece, will you please run out to the car and get X?" Niece was sitting on the couch reading. Niece just said, "No." So SIL untangles herself from her project and goes and does it herself. Later, we are at dinner in my home and my dining room is kind of small. So while not impossible to get through to the kitchen while everyone is sitting, it's not the easiest. Anyway, Niece is closest to the kitchen, the meal was over and we were all just talking. SIL asks, "Niece, will you get me some more water, please?" Niece just says, "No." So SIL starts to get up. It's like an alien came over my body. I said to Niece, "I don't know what you do at home, but when you're in THIS house, when someone asks you to do something, it's not a request." Niece just kind of looked at me and grinned and then got up and got the water.
Now don't get me wrong, I don't think parents should use their kids for slave labor, but asking your child to do something to be helpful isn't out of line. And if it had been ME or my DH asking, Niece would have popped up without a word. It's just her Mom lets her get away with stuff like this and, while I think I irritated my SIL by speaking up, I just could not keep quiet. I don't want to keep getting irritated being around them at the same time. Any thoughts or advice?
One final thing is that my Niece turns into an idiot around her mother. We were at a fast food place and SIL was carrying their tray to the table and said she forgot napkins. "Niece, go back and get napkins, please." Niece responds with, "I don't know where to go" and sits down. So SIL sits the tray down and goes back for them. This happens a lot. SIL says she's a typical teenager. SILS seems to say that a lot. But it was an Arby's and Niece is a smart girl. Yet she didn't know where to go for napkins and I guess thought she'd get lost in the vast expanse of the restaurant.
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Post by MichyM on Mar 16, 2019 17:06:11 GMT
I only raised a boy, but this really sounds like typical for that age teenage girl pushback to me. Quite frankly, as the parent I’d be annoyed that you corrected my daughter on these seemingly minor infractions. And in front of others no less. That’s my job, and correcting my teenager in public was a no go. We talked in private if necessary.
All that said, your niece’s attitude would not fly with me If I was her parent. The only advice I have is to let her parents parent. Your job as an aunt is to be a soft place to land.
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Post by melodyesch on Mar 16, 2019 17:10:30 GMT
I only raised a boy, but this really sounds like typical for that age teenage girl pushback to me. Quite frankly, as the parent I’d be annoyed that you corrected my daughter on these seemingly minor infractions. And in front of others no less. That’s my job, and correcting my teenager in public was a no go. We talked in private if necessary. All that said, your niece’s attitude would not fly with me If I was her parent. The only advice I have is to let her parents parent. Your job as an aunt is to be a soft place to land. Thanks. And yes, I absolutely know I was in the wrong when I said something. Just to be clear, it was just the four of us at the table. So, her close family. I have only said something the one time and would certainly never say anything in public. It's just so hard when we spend hours and hours with them and it seems like she's being so disrespectful to her mother while NOT being that way to anyone else. I just need to figure out a way for it not to piss ME off.
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Post by pjaye on Mar 16, 2019 17:15:03 GMT
When it's between her and her mother - you need to stay out of it. If the interaction is between you (or your husband) and your niece and it's in your house, then I think you have a right to set some expectations of behaviour...if you ask her politely to do something and she says no, then I think you can have your say about it and tell her what you think about her behaviour and what you expect of her. But only when the interaction directly involves you and her.
Otherwise I would stay out of the mother daughter thing because ultimately you'll always end up the loser in that battle.
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Post by gar on Mar 16, 2019 17:15:25 GMT
You don’t want to be irritated but honestly, unless she’s rude or disrespectful to you, the problem is between Niece and her mum. If her mum lets her get away with it then I think you’are going to have to let it go. A lot of teenagers will try this behaviour- it’s pretty normal - but if her mum lets her do it then more fool her.
Eta - how to not let it irritate you - no idea! 😀
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Post by MichyM on Mar 16, 2019 17:20:21 GMT
I only raised a boy, but this really sounds like typical for that age teenage girl pushback to me. Quite frankly, as the parent I’d be annoyed that you corrected my daughter on these seemingly minor infractions. And in front of others no less. That’s my job, and correcting my teenager in public was a no go. We talked in private if necessary. All that said, your niece’s attitude would not fly with me If I was her parent. The only advice I have is to let her parents parent. Your job as an aunt is to be a soft place to land. Thanks. And yes, I absolutely know I was in the wrong when I said something. Just to be clear, it was just the four of us at the table. So, her close family. I have only said something the one time and would certainly never say anything in public. It's just so hard when we spend hours and hours with them and it seems like she's being so disrespectful to her mother while NOT being that way to anyone else. I just need to figure out a way for it not to piss ME off. I say this very gently. If you cannot set it aside, limit your time together with niece and her mom. Spend time with them separately. This phase WILL pass. Promise!
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Post by 950nancy on Mar 16, 2019 17:22:56 GMT
When I had kids, I went from saying, "My kids will never do that to I really hope my kids will never do that." It sounds like they have a relationship where the daughter probably knows when and where she can get away with things. If she is otherwise respectful of the other people, you know she has been taught how to behave. My daycare lady once told me that kids are usually the worst behaved around their moms because moms are their safe space. I am guessing Mom is going to have a few things to say when others aren't around. Discipling a 14 year old in front of others isn't something a lot of parents do... they wait until it is more private or until the kid wants something.
On the other hand, I can see why it bothers you. Watching kids act like this can be infuriating. Teenager probably loves that she can get away with it in front of other adults. I don't think it is horrible that you said something. Maybe having a private, quiet follow up conversation with your niece might give you some more insight. Kids are weird. We love them anyway.
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anaterra
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 3,824
Location: Texas
Jun 29, 2014 3:04:02 GMT
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Post by anaterra on Mar 16, 2019 17:28:49 GMT
My suggestion is when u have niece alone... mention her treatment of mom in front of you... let her know it's not ok and how you want her to act while yall are together.. but dont do it in front of mom... just bite ur tongue...
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Post by myshelly on Mar 16, 2019 17:31:28 GMT
When I read the title I expected you to describe a crazy, wild teenager heading into actual trouble with drugs or sex or something serious.
This? Keep your mouth shut. It’s nothing and it’s none of your business.
Sometimes I want my husband to get me water. Sometimes he feels like it and sometimes he doesn’t. He’s not a servant to order around, and neither is a child.
If I ask my kid to do me a small favor and he doesn’t want to, I don’t make him do it. My house isn’t the military. My requests are not orders.
You sound old school/authoritarian and SIL is not. That doesn’t make her wrong and you right.
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Post by shessoaverage on Mar 16, 2019 17:34:32 GMT
I don’t think it was wrong to say something in your home. A person who is no longer a child is eventually going to have to learn that the rest of the world doesn’t have to/won’t put up with the crap your parents are willing to. Better to learn it in a place where people love you and want the best for you, rather than the wide world where people don’t give a damn.
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johnnysmom
Drama Llama
Posts: 5,682
Jun 25, 2014 21:16:33 GMT
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Post by johnnysmom on Mar 16, 2019 17:35:44 GMT
Eh, that sounds like typical teenage behavior to me (though I only have boys so perhaps girls are different). I could totally seen my oldest (youngest is only 8, not looking forward to doing the teen crap again) doing that kind of crap, especially at that age. He probably wouldn't do it around others but if it was someone he was really close to he probably would (and would have received a death look from me until he got his ass up and did as I asked). He's 17 now and I seem to remember the teen surliness ended around age 15 though he still has his moments (don't we all).
In the meantime I'd advise just ignoring it, it shall pass.
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Post by myshelly on Mar 16, 2019 17:37:08 GMT
I don’t think it was wrong to say something in your home. A person who is no longer a child is eventually going to have to learn that the rest of the world doesn’t have to/won’t put up with the crap your parents are willing to. Better to learn it in a place where people love you and want the best for you, than the wide world where people don’t give a damn. But where in the rest of the world do you *have* to do someone a favor, like get up from the table to get them water instead of them getting themselves water? Nowhere. I don’t really see what lesson the neice needs to learn here 🤷🏻♀️
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Post by annaintx on Mar 16, 2019 17:38:05 GMT
I would have a really hard time keeping my mouth shut. That mom is a total pushover and the kid is taking advantage. I would have done what you did if it was in MY HOUSE. We just had our 2 nieces and nephew for a week, took them on vacation without their mom/dad, and when we took them back to their mom, it's like they were all possessed and different children, I was SHOCKED and did say something to two of them. The teacher in me can't keep her mouth shut!
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Post by myshelly on Mar 16, 2019 17:38:52 GMT
OP,
Do you really not see the irony of your statement -
When someone *asks* you to do something it’s not a *request*
I mean, asking someone to do something IS literally a request. Telling someone to do something is not a request. Asking is a request.
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Post by jeremysgirl on Mar 16, 2019 17:46:44 GMT
Well in my crazy world when my boss asks me to do something I do it. He asks because that is the polite way to do things. If I have an issue, I say so but at my job, saying a simple no doesn't fly. He's the authority. And I need to respect my place.
In my experience with four teenagers, kids who were once happy to help out as children, turn into quite lazy teens who feel the need to challenge everything. As a mom, I pick and choose carefully what I'm willing to do battle with. And my DD grew out of this when she was about 18 and started realizing that she's an adult and I don't have to put a roof over her head or feed her anymore. I choose to. And she chooses to appreciate that.
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Post by gar on Mar 16, 2019 17:47:57 GMT
OP when you said she smiled at you - what sort of smile was it? If she genuinely smiled then she knows...she knows she ‘should’ do as she was asked but knows she will get away with it. If she smirked then she might be feeling that it’s not your place to comment and you’re risking the friendship between you because she knows it’s between her and her mum.
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Deleted
Posts: 0
Apr 23, 2024 21:17:25 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Mar 16, 2019 17:51:57 GMT
I'd just think she's being a typical smart arse 14 year old, pushing her boundaries and seeing what she can get away with. If saying no to a request is the worst thing she does then I think you'll all be ok.
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Post by papercrafteradvocate on Mar 16, 2019 18:02:25 GMT
First off, I adore my niece (14). When we're together I have a great time and she is fun to be around. But when you add her Mom to the mix (my DH's sister, whom I also love), it gets hairy and I get so irritated. And I guess I should preface this by saying that my DH and I do not have children (by choice). So I really, really have no business being all judgy about parenting styles. The only experience I have with a parent/child relationship is the one between me and my parents. Anyway, just as an example. We were at my house and SIL had her hands full doing something. She asked, "Niece, will you please run out to the car and get X?" Niece was sitting on the couch reading. Niece just said, "No." So SIL untangles herself from her project and goes and does it herself. Later, we are at dinner in my home and my dining room is kind of small. So while not impossible to get through to the kitchen while everyone is sitting, it's not the easiest. Anyway, Niece is closest to the kitchen, the meal was over and we were all just talking. SIL asks, "Niece, will you get me some more water, please?" Niece just says, "No." So SIL starts to get up. It's like an alien came over my body. I said to Niece, "I don't know what you do at home, but when you're in THIS house, when someone asks you to do something, it's not a request." Niece just kind of looked at me and grinned and then got up and got the water. Now don't get me wrong, I don't think parents should use their kids for slave labor, but asking your child to do something to be helpful isn't out of line. And if it had been ME or my DH asking, Niece would have popped up without a word. It's just her Mom lets her get away with stuff like this and, while I think I irritated my SIL by speaking up, I just could not keep quiet. I don't want to keep getting irritated being around them at the same time. Any thoughts or advice? One final thing is that my Niece turns into an idiot around her mother. We were at a fast food place and SIL was carrying their tray to the table and said she forgot napkins. "Niece, go back and get napkins, please." Niece responds with, "I don't know where to go" and sits down. So SIL sits the tray down and goes back for them. This happens a lot. SIL says she's a typical teenager. SILS seems to say that a lot. But it was an Arby's and Niece is a smart girl. Yet she didn't know where to go for napkins and I guess thought she'd get lost in the vast expanse of the restaurant. I have 2 nieces around the same age. They try pulling this crap—I call them out on it when we are around. They don’t get away with crap like that around us, in our home, or if we are at another siblings house. It’s disrespectful and lazy.
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Post by melodyesch on Mar 16, 2019 18:05:05 GMT
I would have a really hard time keeping my mouth shut. That mom is a total pushover and the kid is taking advantage. I would have done what you did if it was in MY HOUSE. We just had our 2 nieces and nephew for a week, took them on vacation without their mom/dad, and when we took them back to their mom, it's like they were all possessed and different children, I was SHOCKED and did say something to two of them. The teacher in my cant keep her mouth shut! I think this kind of is what I was trying to say. Niece is NOT some hooligan who doesn't know how to act. DH and I took her on a cruise just the two of us and she was fine. We go shopping and hang out and it's all so easy-breezy. Same when it's just my SIL and me. But when the two of them are together, it's just so hard to deal with. Niece just becomes so surly and irritating and SIL just lets her run the show. And that's irritating to me. And I probably have a harder time dealing with it because we do not have children or really any other exposure to non-adults. These are my closest family and you go from enjoying their company to wanting to smack them both. I think part of the problem is that they live out of town so while we do see them often, it's for an entire weekend, not just a couple of hours each visit. So you're really kind of getting the "lived in" perspective. I am just trying to navigate how to remain silent.
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lurkyloo
Full Member
Posts: 284
Dec 5, 2018 6:53:08 GMT
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Post by lurkyloo on Mar 16, 2019 18:06:57 GMT
It’s possible they’ve got bigger things going on between them, and your SIL knows the “no” is a trap. She’s choosing not to take the bait at that moment, especially while guests in someone else’s home. Because there’s not much stopping niece from starting a big blowout.
It’s a Hell you can not imagine, having a 12-14 year old. The only award we get is that everyone is alive when it’s over. 😂Send your SIL a support card and tell her she’s doing a great job.
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Post by papercrafteradvocate on Mar 16, 2019 18:07:31 GMT
I don’t think it was wrong to say something in your home. A person who is no longer a child is eventually going to have to learn that the rest of the world doesn’t have to/won’t put up with the crap your parents are willing to. Better to learn it in a place where people love you and want the best for you, than the wide world where people don’t give a damn. But where in the rest of the world do you *have* to do someone a favor, like get up from the table to get them water instead of them getting themselves water? Nowhere. I don’t really see what lesson the neice needs to learn here 🤷🏻♀️ How about a lesson in kindness and being helpful? Or doing for others? Someone mentioned that children are not slaves to be ordered around....you mentioned your house isn’t the military or ordering them around...but what about teaching your children to be kind and help one another. Or lessons in not being selfish or self serving? Or respecting their elders? Asking someone to help them out by getting something from the car while you’re otherwise tied up is not ordering someone around. Neither is asking the closest person to the kitchen in a tight dining room situation if they can get them a glass of water. We don’t teach ours to be doormats or slaves to others, but being kind and helping others is high on the priority list.
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Post by cindyupnorth on Mar 16, 2019 18:08:55 GMT
I get what you are saying. We have a totally brat Nephew, who's 13. he's the baby of the family and gets away with anything, and it irritates everyone else. What I am seeing though is, you have NO idea what the Mom would have done alone at home, if she asked and the dd said no. You have no idea if she calls her out on it. Maybe she doesn't want to call out niece in front of people? and cause a fuss, so she just goes with the flow. In the grand scheme of things, this is pretty minor, and I would just hold my tongue and let her parents deal with it. It sounds like she normally is a pretty good kid, so they must be doing something right.
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zella
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 3,884
Jul 7, 2014 19:36:30 GMT
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Post by zella on Mar 16, 2019 18:08:59 GMT
My kids might have sighed, but they would have done what I asked. They certainly wouldn't have just said "no." Not because I was an authoritarian parent (far from it) but because they knew and respected that it's just plain being nice to do things for each other. I did things for them ALL THE TIME. They knew that. Now, if DD said, "Mom, I have a real bad headache, do you mind if I don't go out in the bright light?" as an example, I'd have said "No problem," and gone out to the car myself. But the not getting the water when she was closer to the kitchen? You niece was being a beyotch and your SIL has clearly let her treat her this way for a long time. She's really not doing your niece any favors. Having said all that, unless you want to ask you SIL privately what's going on, it's not your issue. I actually don't have a problem with what you said at the table, as it WAS in your house. But sadly, you pretty much have to stay out of it. Oh, one more thought. If you have a good relationship with your niece, you could ask her about it. But only in a non-judgmental, gentle way if you want to continue to have a good relationship. I agree to some extent this is a teen pushing back, seeing what she can get away with, but before too long she's gonna have to find those napkins herself, and frankly if she acts like that with friends, she probably won't have many. But I bet she only acts that way with her mom. Because mom's allowed it.
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Post by 950nancy on Mar 16, 2019 18:14:06 GMT
But where in the rest of the world do you *have* to do someone a favor, like get up from the table to get them water instead of them getting themselves water? Nowhere. I don’t really see what lesson the neice needs to learn here 🤷🏻♀️ How about a lesson in kindness and being helpful? Or doing for others? Someone mentioned that children are not slaves to be ordered around....you mentioned your house isn’t the military or ordering them around...but what about teaching your children to be kind and help one another. Or lessons in not being selfish or self serving? Or respecting their elders? Asking someone to help them out by getting something from the car while you’re otherwise tied up is not ordering someone around. Neither is asking the closest person to the kitchen in a tight dining room situation if they can get them a glass of water. We don’t teach ours to be doormats or slaves to others, but being kind and helping others is high on the priority list. I have a relative who didn't ask her kids to do anything. They were kids- not servants. She is now raising her grandchildren. Only one of her kids has done well in the work world also. Extreme case, yes. I think there is a happy middle ground for asking kids to do things.
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Post by jeremysgirl on Mar 16, 2019 18:15:15 GMT
Just to give you another possible perspective, your SIL might be letting things go because you are trying to have a pleasant visit. What goes on in their house might be completely different.
Something seemingly small can trip my DDs trigger and her behavior can escalate. When with my family, I try to diffuse the situation because I know a teenage girl can make a scene just like a toddler can.
I always appreciate when my mom or my sister tells her to knock it off.
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Post by jeremysgirl on Mar 16, 2019 18:20:39 GMT
Haha...I see several of us were posting the same idea at the same time.
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Deleted
Posts: 0
Apr 23, 2024 21:17:25 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Mar 16, 2019 18:21:47 GMT
I'm personally glad that you said something. I would have as well. Perhaps though, rather than saying it as a "rule" in your house, you can rephrase it to where you point out why she should help. So if SIL asks for her to get something out of the car because her hands are full you can say, "Let's both go help your Mom since she has her hands full." Or if SIL is asking for water, "Oh, can you also grab XYZ while you are up?"
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Post by mikewozowski on Mar 16, 2019 18:28:23 GMT
i think i might talk to the niece privately. tell her that she is lovely to hang out with when they are alone, but when she is around her mom that it is annoying to have to listen to her be disrespectful. that you love being around her but when she acts like a turd, it makes it not so enjoyable.
my kids don't always jump up and do what i want them to, but they never say, "no,," they just ignore me. if they said no i would be chasing them with a spoon.
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johnnysmom
Drama Llama
Posts: 5,682
Jun 25, 2014 21:16:33 GMT
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Post by johnnysmom on Mar 16, 2019 18:31:34 GMT
I just remembered a time when my youngest was in preschool. We were at ODS' track meet and yds was being a butthead and told me 'no' about something or other. One of his preschool teachers was there and was in total shock at how naughty he was being, she had never seen him be a stinker before, he was always so well behaved at school and around others (in fact around the same time another teacher called me because he'd told her 'no' and she didn't know what to do, of course kids told her no all the time, but not mine I laughed at her ). I truly can't remember how I responded at the time, I likely either went over to him and talked to him thru gritted teeth or I ignored it because I knew in the big scheme of things it wasn't a big deal. My point is, worry more about how the girl behaves when mom and dad aren't around. Kids (and adults) always behave their worst at home, it's their safe place where they'll be loved no matter what. A little bit of smart-mouthness isn't the end of the world, the picture is much bigger than that......focus on the bigger picture.
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Mystie
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 4,299
Jun 25, 2014 19:53:37 GMT
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Post by Mystie on Mar 16, 2019 18:37:11 GMT
She was being a little shit and she knew it, I'm sure that's why she grinned at you when you corrected her. I don't think you were wrong to say something, sometimes like you said, it's an out of body experience and the words just come out! But it's probably best to not let it happen again, even if you'll be biting your tongue to a nubbin over the next 4-5 years! It will be interesting to see if she behaves better toward her mother when she's at your house now.
The mom sounds like a pushover, but that's her problem, not yours. Or maybe she just picks her battles, as parents of teenagers usually have to do. I'm a childless aunt who adores her nieces and nephews, too, so believe me, I totally get where you're coming from. It's not going to kill a kid to get corrected by an adult they love and respect. But now that you've said your piece, try to let it go.
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