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Post by sunshine on Mar 22, 2019 21:36:05 GMT
If the democrats have been lying to the public on a daily basis for the past two years, saying there was proof he colluded with Russia, and there's nothing? I think a lot of people aren't going to be happy. Lying to the public - now there’s a thing 🙄 The democrats have been selling this narrative for 2 years, and people have been rubbing their hands together waiting for this proof. Let's see what they've got.
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Post by papercrafteradvocate on Mar 22, 2019 21:39:32 GMT
Seth Abramson continued...
“4/ As part of the "criminal" investigation, Mueller investigated some things his office then prosecuted; he investigated some things his office handed off to others; he investigated some things he chose not to prosecute; he investigated some things he is letting Congress handle.
5/ Mueller's "criminal" investigations—that is, the information he derived during his nearly 24 months of *criminal investigative work*—then fed directly into multiple "counterintelligence" investigations and will undoubtedly feed into many ongoing "Congressional" investigations.
6/ The news we got today is that Mueller will not *himself* be bringing any more indictments. That's it. That's *all* that has just happened. Any reporting that says the "Russia probe is done" is false. Any reporting that "Mueller's work is done" is false. It is only what I said.
7/ Focusing *exclusively* on what Mueller's office will be doing going forward and *exclusively* on the criminal investigation—so, a small part of what we somewhat misleadingly call the "Trump-Russia scandal"—we can see that Mueller may be done indicting (*maybe*) but that's it.
8/ As of today, Mueller had ten attorneys working for him (himself not included, I believe) down from seventeen originally. But we found out this week that certain attorneys who "left" his Office will *still be doing work for it*. Why? Because the Office has some work left to do.
9/ That Office, whether still formally constituted or not, will see its attorneys prosecute Roger Stone in November, eight months from now. It will see its cooperating witness Rick Gates participate in "multiple" ongoing federal criminal investigations. And that's just the start:
10/ The Office will see its cooperating witness Mike Flynn testify in the Kian trial in July (Kian was a NatSec official on Trump's transition team whose case intersects with all the other parts of the Trump-Russia investigation). Flynn is also involved in *multiple* other cases.
11/ The Office will continue to pursue grand jury testimony from a Roger Stone witness, and continue to pursue a substantial trove of documents (for its grand jury, which is seated through July as far as was last reported) from an as-yet unnamed state-owned foreign corporation.
12/ The Office has—it appears—referred to DOJ for prosecution at least one man it previously promised to prosecute (Corsi) and presumably has referred to DOJ for *possible* prosecution a whole host of "Trumpworld" figures who Congress has recently accused of perjuring themselves.
13/ We also heard from major media over the past few weeks that Bob Mueller's office was referring out an unknown number of new cases to other federal prosecutors, including presumably—based on past cooperation and information-sharing practices—prosecutors in SDNY, EDVA, and DC.
14/ We *also* know from major media that there are many ongoing cases for which Mueller's office conducted some of the investigation, all of the investigation, or shared information with the case's primary investigators, such as Cohen's SDNY cases and the Maria Butina case in DC.
15/ What some in the media decided—I do not know why—is that the only cases they would associate with Mueller would be (a) indictments Mueller's office brought, (b) that were completed before he issued any report to the DOJ, and (c) immediately (on their face) involved collusion.
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Post by mom on Mar 22, 2019 21:41:32 GMT
I hope it gets released to the public. I would like to read it. Also, I kind of want to barf. I hope there is something major in there. Otherwise I believe if this is a big nothingburger that this will hand Trump another 4 years. I agree, completely. With everything you wrote.
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flute4peace
Drama Llama
Posts: 6,757
Jul 3, 2014 14:38:35 GMT
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Post by flute4peace on Mar 22, 2019 21:41:34 GMT
Now I'm totally confused! Keep reading!!! 😄 Where? Is there a link?
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Post by salem on Mar 22, 2019 21:44:19 GMT
I hope it buries that shitbag Trump.
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Post by papercrafteradvocate on Mar 22, 2019 21:44:40 GMT
First what are you confused about? Secondly, I’ve continued posting Seth’s comments here, they are numbered.
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Post by papercrafteradvocate on Mar 22, 2019 21:45:18 GMT
Lying to the public - now there’s a thing 🙄 The democrats have been selling this narrative for 2 years, and people have been rubbing their hands together waiting for this proof. Let's see what they've got. This report is not the end of the road on this. 6/ “The news we got today is that Mueller will not *himself* be bringing any more indictments. That's it. That's *all* that has just happened. Any reporting that says the "Russia probe is done" is false. Any reporting that "Mueller's work is done" is false. It is only what I said.—Seth Abramson “
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flute4peace
Drama Llama
Posts: 6,757
Jul 3, 2014 14:38:35 GMT
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Post by flute4peace on Mar 22, 2019 21:50:43 GMT
First what are you confused about? Secondly, I’ve continued posting Seth’s comments here, they are numbered. I think it's just all more complicated than my poor little broken brain can wrap around.
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Post by papercrafteradvocate on Mar 22, 2019 21:53:05 GMT
More Seth...
16/ So you have reporters today blithely saying that "Mueller is done" when Mueller will be prosecuting Roger Stone for most of 2019. You have reporters saying "he's done" when cases he initiated are not only ongoing in multiple jurisdictions but may well provide new intel there.
17/ If Roger Stone decides to cooperate—before or after conviction—that's Mueller. The same is true for Kian. The same is even true for Manafort (who can cooperate to reduce his sentence for the next year). But the same is also true for the many cases Gates and Flynn are working.
18/ The same is true for Butina. And for indictments that arise from the ongoing counterintelligence investigation(s). Or any new criminal referrals that go from Congress to DOJ. The same is true for cases Mueller began—that then went elsewhere—that could lead to new indictments.
19/ The same is true for any cases that Mueller passed directly on to DOJ to let DOJ decide whether to prosecute them or not. In short, media can tell us today that *Mueller himself* will bring no new indictments—but even that might be conditioned by what happens in Stone's case.
19/20 So Mueller has indicated not just all the charges he himself brought, but all those he sent elsewhere that we know of and all those he sent elsewhere that we *don't* know of. As for the "counterintelligence" investigation—quite possibly still ongoing—we'll get nothing at all.
21/ As to what Mueller will do with one other category—inculpatory evidence he discovered involving potential offenses he regarded as outside his purview—I have no idea whether those will be in the report, were sent to other federal prosecutors, or will be given to Main Justice.
22/ What we have today are a large number of non-attorney journalists who don't understand what a *small part* of the big picture is being dealt with and discussed today because they want to believe they have a handle on a story they do *not* have a handle on. That's distressing.
23/ Imagine that tomorrow Bijan Kian says, "I saw things on the national security team during the transition—I want to talk." Imagine Stone says that. Imagine that any of the cases Mueller's cooperating witnesses are working on now—including Gates and Flynn—beget new indictments.
24/ Under those circumstances, what would today's too-oft-heard pronouncement—"no new indictments"—even mean? Or what would it mean if any of the cases Mueller referred to SDNY, EDVA, DC, state courts, or Main Justice—whether in the past or just recently—lead to new indictments?
25/ What if the counterintelligence cases that do not appear to have been subsumed by Mueller's investigation return to the criminal sphere in the future as new indictments? What if Congressional investigations spurred by Mueller's work produce new evidence, and then indictments?
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sassyangel
Drama Llama
Posts: 7,456
Jun 26, 2014 23:58:32 GMT
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Post by sassyangel on Mar 22, 2019 22:05:38 GMT
If the democrats have been lying to the public on a daily basis for the past two years, saying there was proof he colluded with Russia, and there's nothing? I think a lot of people aren't going to be happy. Lying to the public - now there’s a thing 🙄 Yes, it’s quite an odd thing to hang your hat on, given the amount of lies coming out of this administration daily. 🧐
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Post by gar on Mar 22, 2019 22:08:40 GMT
Lying to the public - now there’s a thing 🙄 The democrats have been selling this narrative for 2 years, and people have been rubbing their hands together waiting for this proof. Let's see what they've got. Whatever. It pales into insignificance compared to what comes out of his mouth daily. It’d be laughable if it wasn’t so serious and disastrous and contemptible.
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msladibug
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 2,533
Jul 10, 2014 2:31:46 GMT
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Post by msladibug on Mar 22, 2019 22:16:16 GMT
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AmandaA
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 3,501
Aug 28, 2015 22:31:17 GMT
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Post by AmandaA on Mar 22, 2019 22:16:53 GMT
The democrats have been selling this narrative for 2 years, and people have been rubbing their hands together waiting for this proof. Let's see what they've got. Whatever. It pales into insignificance compared to what comes out of his mouth daily. It’d be laughable if it wasn’t so serious and disastrous and contemptible. Exactly... still waiting for that narrative about the caravan to play out 🙄 or the Democratic deep state or any other of the shit that spews from the mouth of the POTUS and has continued to be perpetuated by the spineless members of the GOP and his mouthpieces at his favorite media outlets. Still waiting for proof of all of that too 🤷🏻♀️
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MizIndependent
Drama Llama
Quit your bullpoop.
Posts: 5,836
Jun 25, 2014 19:43:16 GMT
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Post by MizIndependent on Mar 22, 2019 22:19:20 GMT
So...does this mean that tomorrow is Robert Mueller’s Day Off?
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scrapngranny
Pearl Clutcher
Only slightly senile
Posts: 4,759
Jun 25, 2014 23:21:30 GMT
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Post by scrapngranny on Mar 22, 2019 22:29:49 GMT
I’m not hopeful. Without indictments against Donald Jr and Jared Kushner it doesn’t give the feeling they found enough evidence to move forward. Not that they were innocent, simply not enough strong evidence to prosecute.
Hopefully, Congress can find more in different investigations to bring forward to the public. I heard on one of the political shows the other day, the only way we get Trump out of the White House is to vote him out. Knowledge will be power in the up coming election.
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AmandaA
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 3,501
Aug 28, 2015 22:31:17 GMT
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Post by AmandaA on Mar 22, 2019 22:31:17 GMT
I had a laugh at seeing this in CNN’s update summary on their homepage: “12 mins ago- A heavy staff presence will be around the President this weekend.” You suppose they are taking shifts guarding his phone... I can already see a hilarious SNL skit of what that would look like 😂
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Post by christine58 on Mar 22, 2019 22:38:25 GMT
So...does this mean that tomorrow is Robert Mueller’s Day Off? LMAO
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Post by SockMonkey on Mar 22, 2019 22:38:36 GMT
If the democrats have been lying to the public on a daily basis for the past two years, saying there was proof he colluded with Russia, and there's nothing? I think a lot of people aren't going to be happy. A lot of people already aren’t happy we have a racist, sexist moron for a president. Being found a criminal would only be the frosting on this shit cupcake of a White House. I can’t wait for him to be gone.
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PLurker
Prolific Pea
Posts: 9,736
Location: Behind the Cheddar Curtain
Jun 28, 2014 3:48:49 GMT
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Post by PLurker on Mar 22, 2019 22:47:26 GMT
I’m not hopeful. Without indictments against Donald Jr and Jared Kushner it doesn’t give the feeling they found enough evidence to move forward. Not that they were innocent, simply not enough strong evidence to prosecute. Hopefully, Congress can find more in different investigations to bring forward to the public. I heard on one of the political shows the other day, the only way we get Trump out of the White House is to vote him out. Knowledge will be power in the up coming election. I believe abc David Muir just said no indictments doesn't mean there can't be in future. Can say why or why he (Mueller) didn't but can advise, so to speak. Furthermore, as far as I'm concerned, calling it a witch hunt, unsuccessful investigation etc is wrong considering amount if "witches" caught and moneys recovered. For an innocent man he claims to be, he sure surrounds himself with the opposite. To keep his hands clean(er) let others do the dirty work.?
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katybee
Drama Llama
Posts: 5,377
Jun 25, 2014 23:25:39 GMT
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Post by katybee on Mar 22, 2019 23:02:30 GMT
It’s going to be a nothingburger. It is.
But, seriously, if you can blatantly dismiss the fact that SO MANY of the people Trump surrounded himself with have been convicted, indicted, plead guilty, or shamed out of office—and STILL think he is an upstanding guy—nothing was ever going to convince you otherwise.
If you honestly believe that Trump is an innocent victim of a witch hunt...that all he ever wanted was to work for the everyday guy... that he willingly sacrificed his own interests and financial gain...then you DESERVE the shitshow that will result from his legacy.
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PLurker
Prolific Pea
Posts: 9,736
Location: Behind the Cheddar Curtain
Jun 28, 2014 3:48:49 GMT
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Post by PLurker on Mar 22, 2019 23:11:02 GMT
It’s going to be a nothingburger. It is. But, seriously, if you can blatantly dismiss the fact that SO MANY of the people Trump surrounded himself with have been convicted, indicted, plead guilty, or shamed out of office—and STILL think he is an upstanding guy—nothing was ever going to convince you otherwise. If you honestly believe that Trump is an innocent victim of a witch hunt...that all he ever wanted was to work for the everyday guy... that he willingly sacrificed his own interests and financial gain...then you DESERVE the shitshow that will result from his legacy. Truth. If your kids start and continue hanging with bad kids/gangs etc you wouldn't believe their I'm totally innocent BS but I guess it's okay for your POtuS. Don't get the (lack of) logic.
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Post by SockMonkey on Mar 22, 2019 23:12:55 GMT
It’s going to be a nothingburger. It is. But, seriously, if you can blatantly dismiss the fact that SO MANY of the people Trump surrounded himself with have been convicted, indicted, plead guilty, or shamed out of office—and STILL think he is an upstanding guy—nothing was ever going to convince you otherwise. If you honestly believe that Trump is an innocent victim of a witch hunt...that all he ever wanted was to work for the everyday guy... that he willingly sacrificed his own interests and financial gain...then you DESERVE the shitshow that will result from his legacy. Truth. If your kids start and continue hanging with bad kids/gangs etc you wouldn't believe their I'm totally innocent BS but I guess it's okay for you POtuS. Don't get the (lack of) logic. Yup. We never needed this investigation to tell us he's an incompetent, racist, sexist, narcissistic garbage human who has always been unqualified and unable to lead this country.
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katybee
Drama Llama
Posts: 5,377
Jun 25, 2014 23:25:39 GMT
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Post by katybee on Mar 22, 2019 23:16:25 GMT
If the democrats have been lying to the public on a daily basis for the past two years, saying there was proof he colluded with Russia, and there's nothing? I think a lot of people aren't going to be happy. Most normal, intelligent people already have all the proof they need to know Donald Trump is a liar, a cheat, a con artist and a criminal. I think these people you refer to are the 40% of Americans that support him no matter what. They support him when he pays off a porn star to hide an affair he had while his wife was at home, pregnant with his child. They support him when he praises dictators and despots while maligning our own intelligence services and military. They support him when he defames a beloved American senator and HERO, months after his death. They support him even though he embraces white supremacists and mocks Muslims, Hispanics, the disabled, women... If you were waiting on Mueller’s report to decide whether or not Trump is a decent human being, then you’re probably not a very decent human being yourself...
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Post by SockMonkey on Mar 22, 2019 23:20:13 GMT
If the democrats have been lying to the public on a daily basis for the past two years, saying there was proof he colluded with Russia, and there's nothing? I think a lot of people aren't going to be happy. Most normal, intelligent people already have all the proof they need to know Donald Trump is a liar, a cheat, a con artist and a criminal. I think these people you refer to are the 40% of Americans that support him no matter what. They support him when he pays off a porn star to hide an affair he had while his wife was at home, pregnant with his child. They support him when he praises dictators and despots while maligning our own intelligence services and military. They support him when he defames a beloved American senator and HERO, months after his death. They support him even though he embraces white supremacists and mocks Muslims, Hispanics, the disabled, women... If you were waiting on Mueller’s report to decide whether or not Trump is a decent human being, then you’re probably not a very decent human being yourself...
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Deleted
Posts: 0
Apr 19, 2024 17:36:41 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Mar 22, 2019 23:22:07 GMT
It’s been clear from the very beginning trump is hiding something. It’s just a question of what.
I still think it’s money laundering with/for Russian Oligarchs.
He had a money problem and there was a time when he paid for everything in cash so says David Fahrenthold of the Washington Post and others. Where did this cash come from?
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Post by iamkristinl16 on Mar 22, 2019 23:23:36 GMT
It’s going to be a nothingburger. It is. But, seriously, if you can blatantly dismiss the fact that SO MANY of the people Trump surrounded himself with have been convicted, indicted, plead guilty, or shamed out of office—and STILL think he is an upstanding guy—nothing was ever going to convince you otherwise. If you honestly believe that Trump is an innocent victim of a witch hunt...that all he ever wanted was to work for the everyday guy... that he willingly sacrificed his own interests and financial gain...then you DESERVE the shitshow that will result from his legacy. Exactly. There is already enough information that he, his family, and those around him are not good people and have had shady business dealings—before and during the presidency.
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Post by cade387 on Mar 22, 2019 23:30:38 GMT
Lying to the public - now there’s a thing 🙄 The democrats have been selling this narrative for 2 years, and people have been rubbing their hands together waiting for this proof. Let's see what they've got. This coming from the guy who can’t post under his original screen name? Is your position that it is perfectly ok for the president to lie to American public and for him to surround himself with a bunch of bad folks but somehow he isn’t bad? I don’t follow your reasoning
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Post by papercrafteradvocate on Mar 22, 2019 23:34:18 GMT
The democrats have been selling this narrative for 2 years, and people have been rubbing their hands together waiting for this proof. Let's see what they've got. This coming from the guy who can’t post under his original screen name? Is your position that it is perfectly ok for the president to lie to American public and for him to surround himself with a bunch of bad folks but somehow he isn’t bad? I don’t follow your reasoning The only reasoning for that one is “anything to stick it to the libs”
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Post by revirdsuba99 on Mar 22, 2019 23:42:42 GMT
I’m not hopeful. Without indictments against Donald Jr and Jared Kushner it doesn’t give the feeling they found enough evidence to move forward. Not that they were innocent, simply not enough strong evidence to prosecute. Hopefully, Congress can find more in different investigations to bring forward to the public. I heard on one of the political shows the other day, the only way we get Trump out of the White House is to vote him out. Knowledge will be power in the up coming election. Not sure that they would list sealed indictments.. I don't know the answer.
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Post by revirdsuba99 on Mar 22, 2019 23:50:45 GMT
If the democrats have been lying to the public on a daily basis for the past two years, saying there was proof he colluded with Russia, and there's nothing? I think a lot of people aren't going to be happy. Lying to the public - now there’s a thing 🙄 If there is nothing, we will know that Mueller did his job and accept his decision. NOT like how dt insinuated that there might be rioting by his supporters.. Or Rep Steve King suggesting Civil War............. Again collusion is not a crime!!
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