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Post by jackie on Apr 3, 2019 18:56:30 GMT
I do realize that kissing someone’s head is different than putting your hands or allowing someone to put their hands on your shoulder. But, there are people, maybe even some on this thread that would hate having someone from behind put their hands on their shoulders. That’s my point—everyone has different comfort levels. Manywould find any unasked for touching to be unprofessional. It’s always best to err on the side of caution and keep behavior at a very professional level. Joe isn’t like that. He’s a super affectionate guy by nature, probably also influenced by coming up in the “kissing babies” era. Many people love that about Joe. They were just talking on The View how he’s one of the only guests they’ve had that gets up during breaks and goes out shaking hands and hugging. He’s going to need to stop a lot of that and I won’t lie, it makes me a little sad.
The pea that said it’s always women that he is affectionate with, you’re very mistaken on that. A google search will show tons of images of Joe in tight embraces, rubbing noses, kissing, etc., men (colleagues, constituents).
Bottom line is that these women said they like and respect him, they didn’t feel there was any malice or assault...so why choose to handle it this way? And yeah, I really want to believe people when they speak up, but it is odd that a big Bernie supporter is choosing right now to talk about this “uncomfortable” encounter, right when the guy who would probably be Bernie’s biggest obstacle to the nomination is considering a run. Yeah, sorry—I’m suspicious.
Lastly (for now), I think the “litmus test” comparing this same behavior from Trump vs. Biden is faulty. That’s like asking if you’re at a Hollywood party, would you have the same comfort level if Tom Hanks came in for a hug vs. Harvey Weinstein? .
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Deleted
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Apr 19, 2024 10:51:20 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Apr 3, 2019 19:06:07 GMT
From UPI..
This is what Lucy Flores said...
”Biden issued a statement responding to a piece former Nevada assemblywoman Lucy Flores in New York magazine's The Cut on Friday in which she said Biden approached her from behind, grabbed her shoulders, leaned in and "inhaled my hair," then kissed her on the back of the head while she was waiting to speak at a political event hosted by Biden when she was running for lieutenant governor in 2014.
This is what Biden said...
“In my many years on the campaign trial and in public life, I have offered countless handshakes, hugs, expressions of affection, support and comfort," Biden said in a statement, according to CNN. "And not once -- never -- did I believe I acted inappropriately. If it is suggested that I did so, I will listen respectfully. But it was never my intention."
Here are my questions...
1. Would Biden offer the same type of support/comfort/expressions of affection/hugs or whatever you want call it, that Flores outlined to a guy?
2. If not, why is ok to do it to a woman?
It has been interesting to see the spin many have put on his actions in way to make them ok on this thread and on twitter. Even a feminist offered her take.
As a feminist myself, I have always felt the objective was that men and women be treated equally.
So unless Biden is going to start offering encouragement to guys by walking up behind them, put his hands on their shoulders, smell their hair, and then kiss the back of their head, what he did was unacceptable to Flores and any woman, for that matter, because it demonstrates a double standard.
Nor do we get to decide how a person should feel personally about how someone shows support or encouragement toward them.
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Deleted
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Apr 19, 2024 10:51:20 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Apr 3, 2019 19:43:10 GMT
Biden just now..
”Social norms are changing. I understand that, and I’ve heard what these women are saying. Politics to me has always been about making connections, but I will be more mindful about respecting personal space in the future. That’s my responsibility and I will meet it.”
Except it was never acceptable to walk behind a woman, sniff her hair and then kiss her on the back of her head. It really is that simple. Not now and not then.
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Post by jackie on Apr 3, 2019 20:03:27 GMT
First, I have to offer profuse apologies for my typo-riddled last post (I believe I fixed them all). That’s what happens when you post on the run.
And yes, I think he WOULD do that to a man. I don’t know about the hair-sniffing, that just seems a little odd, but could the guy just have been breathing?
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Post by leftturnonly on Apr 3, 2019 20:44:08 GMT
Democrats never seemed to care about it before now. SMH. Who thinks it's normal to go in for a "face feel" within seconds of meeting someone new??
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Post by leftturnonly on Apr 3, 2019 20:52:11 GMT
I think he WOULD do that to a man. But he doesn't. He does this to females of all ages and has for a very long time.
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scrappinmama
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 4,847
Jun 26, 2014 12:54:09 GMT
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Post by scrappinmama on Apr 3, 2019 20:58:39 GMT
Democrats never seemed to care about it before now. SMH. Who thinks it's normal to go in for a "face feel" within seconds of meeting someone new?? Republicans didn't care about the pussy grabber either. But with that said, it is creepy. I remember years ago The Daily Show zoomed in on Biden in action. I found it inappropriate then and I find it inappropriate now. It may very well be a generation thing, but someone should have told him to knock it off years ago.
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MizIndependent
Drama Llama
Quit your bullpoop.
Posts: 5,836
Jun 25, 2014 19:43:16 GMT
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Post by MizIndependent on Apr 3, 2019 21:20:12 GMT
I think he WOULD do that to a man. I'm fairly certain that if he tried to snif a guy's hair and/or kiss the back of his head he'd get knocked out cold. Guys don't do that to guys, period. Republicans didn't care about the pussy grabber either. But with that said, it is creepy. I remember years ago The Daily Show zoomed in on Biden in action. I found it inappropriate then and I find it inappropriate now. It may very well be a generation thing, but someone should have told him to knock it off years ago. I'm also certain that if video existed of Trump actually grabbing a woman in the manner he so grotesquely described in that "caught on a hot mic" interview, he wouldn't have made it past the primary. Sadly, talking about doing it and actually doing it are two different things, legally speaking.
Biden is caught on camera doing very questionable "Joe being Joe" things. That's the difference.
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Post by leftturnonly on Apr 3, 2019 21:41:08 GMT
Sadly, talking about doing it and actually doing it are two different things, legally speaking. Not legally speaking, doing and not doing are two different things. I'm not sure what's sad about that. Whatever. Trump's actions are neither here nor there. This is about Biden. He challenges the men around the females he meets by asserting a familiarity with the females that he has not earned. He pulls them to him. He smells them. He pets them. He touches them. He grooms them. He kisses them. Whenever a man does intervene in even a slight way, Biden backs off. If no one intervenes, Biden continues. He's done this before cameras for many, many years, so there's no shortage of videos or photos. It is what it is. This is how Biden behaves.
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Post by leftturnonly on Apr 3, 2019 21:49:00 GMT
someone should have told him to knock it off years ago. What they did was elect him as a US Senator from the state of Delaware, and then the US Vice President for 8 years. He had a better than decent chance of having a very strong bid for the 2016 presidential nomination if his son hadn't died of brain cancer too shortly beforehand. And that's exactly why I said that the Demcorats did not have a problem with his behavior until now.
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scrappinmama
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 4,847
Jun 26, 2014 12:54:09 GMT
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Post by scrappinmama on Apr 3, 2019 23:28:12 GMT
someone should have told him to knock it off years ago. What they did was elect him as a US Senator from the state of Delaware, and then the US Vice President for 8 years. He had a better than decent chance of having a very strong bid for the 2016 presidential nomination if his son hadn't died of brain cancer too shortly beforehand. And that's exactly why I said that the Demcorats did not have a problem with his behavior until now. It's another case of a white man in power that is held to a different standard. It's not ok. Hopefully moving forward men like him will think twice.
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Post by Merge on Apr 3, 2019 23:45:21 GMT
someone should have told him to knock it off years ago. What they did was elect him as a US Senator from the state of Delaware, and then the US Vice President for 8 years. He had a better than decent chance of having a very strong bid for the 2016 presidential nomination if his son hadn't died of brain cancer too shortly beforehand. And that's exactly why I said that the Demcorats did not have a problem with his behavior until now. I suspect many of us were not aware of this behavior until now. I had honestly never heard of him until he became Obama's running mate, and if it was brought up as a problem, I didn't hear about it. I think a more accurate statement is that most people overlooked this sort of behavior in men until very recently. I personally grew up with a couple of uncles who were touchy-feely. It was creepy and gross. It was expected that we would be respectful and put up with that - and I imagine that's how most of us were raised. Whatever. I didn't know about Biden until this all broke. And I'm perfectly happy for him to shuffle off into retirement.
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Post by MichyM on Apr 4, 2019 0:02:47 GMT
What they did was elect him as a US Senator from the state of Delaware, and then the US Vice President for 8 years. He had a better than decent chance of having a very strong bid for the 2016 presidential nomination if his son hadn't died of brain cancer too shortly beforehand. And that's exactly why I said that the Demcorats did not have a problem with his behavior until now. I suspect many of us were not aware of this behavior until now. I had honestly never heard of him until he became Obama's running mate, and if it was brought up as a problem, I didn't hear about it. I think a more accurate statement is that most people overlooked this sort of behavior in men until very recently. I personally grew up with a couple of uncles who were touchy-feely. It was creepy and gross. It was expected that we would be respectful and put up with that - and I imagine that's how most of us were raised. Whatever. I didn't know about Biden until this all broke. And I'm perfectly happy for him to shuffle off into retirement. Exactly that.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 4, 2019 1:34:14 GMT
He's done this before cameras for many, many years, so there's no shortage of videos or photos. It is what it is. This is how Biden behaves. And many of them have been used out of context entirely as per Stephanie Carter attended her husband Ash Carter's swearing-in as secretary of Defense at the Pentagon in February 2015, photographers captured an image of Biden leaning toward her with his hands on her shoulders and his face pressed close behind her right ear.
That image, and several others captured over the years, have been used by Biden's detractors to depict the former vice president as "creepy Uncle Joe" on social media and in mocking memes.
Carter said Flores' story had rekindled interest in the photo of her and Biden.
"Last night, I received a text from a friend letting me know that picture was once again all over Twitter in connection to Lucy Flores’ personal account of a 2014 encounter with Joe Biden," Carter said Sunday in a post on Medium titled "The #MeToo Story That Wasn’t Me." "Let me state upfront that I don’t know her, but I absolutely support her right to speak her truth and she should be, like all women, believed. But her story is not mine," Carter said of Flores. "The Joe Biden in my picture is a close friend helping someone get through a big day, for which I will always be grateful. So, as the sole owner of my story, it is high time that I reclaim it – from strangers, Twitter, the pundits and the late-night hosts."
Carter recalled the day in detail, saying she was "uncharacteristically nervous" and that she slipped and fell on ice when they arrived at the Pentagon. She said Biden leaned toward her as her husband spoke "to tell me 'thank you for letting him do this' and kept his hands on my shoulders as a means of offering his support."
She recalled her horror as the photo, "misleadingly extracted from what was a longer moment between close friends," became "the lasting image of that day." She said she "felt awful" that Biden's kindness was being used as "supposed proof positive that he didn’t understand how to respect women."
"I thought it would all blow over if I didn’t dignify it with a response. But clearly that was wishful thinking," Carter wrote. "I won’t pretend that this will be the last of that picture, but it will be the last of other people speaking for me."
link and this is the image that is flying around twitter amongst others to try and prove the point that JB is a creep around women. It's a sad day for society when we ( general we) can't decipher the difference between offering support, condolences or whatever else people give hugs to each other, with what is creepy or predatory behaviour. It undermines the #Me Too movement when women uses a totally innocent gesture out of context. How long will it be before shaking hands even, will become an uncomfortable moment for some of these women? If we're not careful we'll be bringing up a generation that are incapable of showing warmth, support, affection or empathy with another human being.
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Post by jackie on Apr 4, 2019 4:13:50 GMT
I think he WOULD do that to a man. I'm fairly certain that if he tried to snif a guy's hair and/or kiss the back of his head he'd get knocked out cold. Guys don't do that to guys, period. Republicans didn't care about the pussy grabber either. But with that said, it is creepy. I remember years ago The Daily Show zoomed in on Biden in action. I found it inappropriate then and I find it inappropriate now. It may very well be a generation thing, but someone should have told him to knock it off years ago. I'm also certain that if video existed of Trump actually grabbing a woman in the manner he so grotesquely described in that "caught on a hot mic" interview, he wouldn't have made it past the primary. Sadly, talking about doing it and actually doing it are two different things, legally speaking.
Biden is caught on camera doing very questionable "Joe being Joe" things. That's the difference.
First, I think it’s ridiculously sexist to say a man would “knock him out cold” if he sniffed his hair. It paints a picture of quivering helpless women allowing behavior they find uncomfortable, while the big strong (homophobic?) men knock a guy out cold for it. Thankfully, the men in my life aren’t so prehistoric. Men and women should speak up when someone is behaving in a way that makes them uncomfortable. People will learn, as I believe Joe has, to be much more careful, more aware. I also call BS on the words vs. action thing. If people haven’t been paying attention to Trump’s behavior over the years, haven’t heard of the assaults, the dressing room invasions at his beauty pageants, and the fact that he lets us know exactly how he behaves with women, I’m not convinced live footage of actual pussy grabbing would have made a bit of difference. By the way, there are plenty of pictures out there of Trump being very hands-on with a lot of women and girls—certainly no less damnimg than Biden and much worse when you look at the rest of his behavior.
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MizIndependent
Drama Llama
Quit your bullpoop.
Posts: 5,836
Jun 25, 2014 19:43:16 GMT
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Post by MizIndependent on Apr 4, 2019 17:49:30 GMT
3 more women...that makes 7 total so far...just sayin'...
ETA: And yes, Trump is a disgusting pig, but no one here is arguing that, lol.
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Deleted
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Apr 19, 2024 10:51:20 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Apr 4, 2019 17:59:27 GMT
It's a sad day for society when we ( general we) can't decipher the difference between offering support, condolences or whatever else people give hugs to each other, with what is creepy or predatory behaviour. It undermines the #Me Too movement when women uses a totally innocent gesture out of context. How long will it be before shaking hands even, will become an uncomfortable moment for some of these women? It is, but it's not up to *us* - it is up to the person receiving the gesture which is the problem. I don't for a minute think that Biden has inappropriate intentions but he does seem to be a bit blind when it comes to comfort levels. It is a confusing thing - I personally don't mind a hug from anyone from the front or side but let someone stand behind me and I feel triggered for whatever reason. Of course no one would know that and it is my problem not theirs but just because someone is comfortable with one type of PDA doesn't mean they are comfortable with all. How long before it is an uncomfortable moment? I think that ship has sailed with the #metoo flag flying. The sad part is that legal or illegal, men are going to feel guarded around women and be wary of false accusations and that is going to start to make them less likely to want to hire women. The #metoo movement is doing as much harm to women as it is good.
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Post by jackie on Apr 4, 2019 19:21:25 GMT
Three women, seven women, the point is none claimed malice, sexual assault, etc.; they said they were “uncomfortable”. Okay, he said he understands, he gets it, he’ll be more mindful of that. Aren’t there more important issues to discuss?
And the only reason I brought up Trump is because I was asked a specific question about him and his behavior. Personally I think there is no real comparison between that rapey misogynist and the kind but misguided Biden.
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MizIndependent
Drama Llama
Quit your bullpoop.
Posts: 5,836
Jun 25, 2014 19:43:16 GMT
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Post by MizIndependent on Apr 4, 2019 19:31:30 GMT
Three women, seven women, the point is none claimed malice, sexual assault, etc.; they said they were “uncomfortable”. Okay, he said he understands, he gets it, he’ll be more mindful of that. Aren’t there more important issues to discuss? And the only reason I brought up Trump is because I was asked a specific question about him and his behavior. Personally I think there is no real comparison between that rapey misogynist and the kind but misguided Biden. I hope he does get it. That's the whole point of discussing things like this, so people like Biden finally get it and stop doing it.
I don't care if there are "more important issues to discuss", this issue is important to discuss. Whether something else is more important than this does not in any way negate the importance of women defending their right to personal autonomy. There are a lot of very important issues and if you feel this specific topic is a waste of your time, then fine. I feel it's worth discussing and anyone else that thinks similarly is invited to participate. No one is forcing anyone here to engage.
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Deleted
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Apr 19, 2024 10:51:20 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Apr 4, 2019 19:45:34 GMT
Three women, seven women, the point is none claimed malice, sexual assault, etc.; they said they were “uncomfortable”. Okay, he said he understands, he gets it, he’ll be more mindful of that. Aren’t there more important issues to discuss? And the only reason I brought up Trump is because I was asked a specific question about him and his behavior. Personally I think there is no real comparison between that rapey misogynist and the kind but misguided Biden. Does he understand? I wonder. In his statement he said “social norms are changing - I understand”. But when were his actions ever OK? Is he the sexual predator that trump is? Of course not. But Biden’s actions could be seen as an intimate act on women he hardly knows. An as innocent as he may think it is, that has never been acceptable. That is why thanks to #metoo hundreds if not thousands of women have had the courage to tell us their stories. And I bet you anything, a fair number of men felt the same way Biden did when he showed “encouragement” and “support” to these women. What it boils down to is how men see women. And thanks again to #metoo, we are seeing how screwed up that is.
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amom23
Drama Llama
Posts: 5,326
Jun 27, 2014 12:39:18 GMT
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Post by amom23 on Apr 4, 2019 19:47:07 GMT
Three women, seven women, the point is none claimed malice, sexual assault, etc.; they said they were “uncomfortable”. Okay, he said he understands, he gets it, he’ll be more mindful of that. Aren’t there more important issues to discuss? And the only reason I brought up Trump is because I was asked a specific question about him and his behavior. Personally I think there is no real comparison between that rapey misogynist and the kind but misguided Biden. I hope he does get it. That's the whole point of discussing things like this, so people like Biden finally get it and stop doing it.
I don't care if there are "more important issues to discuss", this issue is important to discuss. Whether something else is more important than this does not in any way negate the importance of women defending their right to personal autonomy. There are a lot of very important issues and if you feel this specific topic is a waste of your time, then fine. I feel it's worth discussing and anyone else that thinks similarly is invited to participate. No one is forcing anyone here to engage.
While I've yet to hear a single person who knows Joe Biden in real life dispute this side of him, he has come out and acknowledged his behavior has caused some people to feel uncomfortable. Now it's time to allow him the opportunity to adjust his mannerisms.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 4, 2019 19:59:03 GMT
Regardless if he understands or not it’s time for him to retire.
He has run for President three times. One time he had to withdraw because he gave a speech he claimed he wrote when in fact it was written/given by someone else. He tanked in 2008 because of “gaffs” he made when talking about policy. Yes the race came down to Obama and Hillary, But Biden was soo far behind those two.
There is this nostalgia for Biden I don’t get. And it’s misplaced in this election cycle.
Even with all her baggage, Hillary would have made a better president because with Biden, you never know when this strange uncle fluffy persona appears. IMO.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 4, 2019 20:05:48 GMT
I do believe there are some men that don’t think when it comes to “touching” women. There intent is not in the sexual predator mode, they just didn’t think. Then there men who are sexual predators like the idiot in The White House. I believe both Al Franken and Joe Biden fall into the category where they just didn’t think their actions would be uncomfortable for the person on the receiving end of the action. Franken realized what he did was wrong and apologized for his actions. He got kicked out of the senate. As of yesterday Biden doesn’t think he did anything inappropriate. And that is a problem. Just like it’s a problem that Sanders brushed off the reports that there was sexual harassment in his 2016 campaign and he wasn’t told about it because he was “busy running for president”. So I disagree Biden should be given a pass. If it’s ok to kick Franken, who did apologize and acknowledge his actions were wrong, out of the Senate, then it’s ok to tell Biden, who thinks he didn’t do anything inappropriate, to go home, retire and thank him for his service to the country. And the Democrats move on without Biden. About AL Franken: He was a comedian (SCTV, SNL, etc... And a comedy writer, for years.) His humor back then included what we'd deem as inappropriate these days. He has never seemed to be a groping moron. Even when I saw the airplane pic of the woman sleeping and him *appearing* to cup her breasts, it was too hard to see if it was direct contact or just a comedy moment where he really didn't touch her. I haven't heard of any other substantiated claims. I still don't see him as an abuser, but i would take each allegation seriously and review the information. As for Biden, I don't see it either, even in that video. He is loving,caring and kind. Yes, touching a woman's face might be taken as too much, but I'm sure it was just an endearing moment. If women felt it to be inappropriate, I don't understand why they never spoke up before. It's not like he is a pushy, scary, immoral moron. He'd most likely listen and not do it again. And I doubt highly that he'd do anything to disrespect his wife. I am a survivor of a brutal rape and I usually listen to anyone who has allegations of improper boundaries, but in this case my immediate thought is that he's the top rated contender against the ass in office and the smear campaign has begun. Freaking hilarious how Trump's camp can dismiss his affairs with porn stars and dismiss his own words about ignoring boundaries because he's "famous" and he's allowed to do whatever he pleases (despite his pregnant wife at home finding out). That's fine because it's "who the people knew they were voting for" but Biden has to jump through thousands of hoops to apologize for his good hearted friendly behavior?? Please!
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Post by crimsoncat05 on Apr 4, 2019 20:07:28 GMT
But Biden’s actions could be seen as an intimate act on women he hardly knows. An as innocent as he may think it is, that has never been acceptable. while I understand that movies are not real life, they are a good reflection of the customs and dress of the particular time period in which they're filmed. I've seen a LOT of movies from the 1940s-50s where men are much more 'familiar' with women, even strangers, than would be seen as appropriate now: meaning actions like a hand on a shoulder, on an arm, etc. etc.-- even between characters who are perfect strangers in the movie. And I don't think the ways in which men and women were shown to interact on the tv show Mad Men was entirely an exaggeration. I'm not saying it was RIGHT, from today's point of view, but that's the way it was THEN. Joe Biden and others of his generation are just that- from another generation with a different viewpoint of what types of interactions was socially acceptable. He's from the 'baby-kissing politician' era, so to speak. And he's said he will adjust his behavior accordingly. (and he's hasn't even said whether he wants to run or not, yet. So why is it so relevant right now with him, specifically, I mean?? the timing does seem a bit odd.)
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Post by sudie on Apr 4, 2019 20:12:24 GMT
Our field is just fine without Biden. It's too large as is, so if people are knocked out by this kind of nonsense then so be it. I'm more interested in the younger candidates anyway. I've had enough of old men running things. I'm not interested in hearing any shit, though, from anyone who voted for and/or supports the pussy grabber in chief. Bless your hearts for trying to tell anyone else their candidate has been inappropriate with women. Mind your own house on that one. Exactly!!
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Deleted
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Apr 19, 2024 10:51:20 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Apr 4, 2019 21:02:13 GMT
But Biden’s actions could be seen as an intimate act on women he hardly knows. An as innocent as he may think it is, that has never been acceptable. while I understand that movies are not real life, they are a good reflection of the customs and dress of the particular time period in which they're filmed. I've seen a LOT of movies from the 1940s-50s where men are much more 'familiar' with women, even strangers, than would be seen as appropriate now: meaning actions like a hand on a shoulder, on an arm, etc. etc.-- even between characters who are perfect strangers in the movie. And I don't think the ways in which men and women were shown to interact on the tv show Mad Men was entirely an exaggeration. I'm not saying it was RIGHT, from today's point of view, but that's the way it was THEN. Joe Biden and others of his generation are just that- from another generation with a different viewpoint of what types of interactions was socially acceptable. He's from the 'baby-kissing politician' era, so to speak. And he's said he will adjust his behavior accordingly. (and he's hasn't even said whether he wants to run or not, yet. So why is it so relevant right now with him, specifically, I mean?? the timing does seem a bit odd.) I’m just a couple years younger then Biden and it wasn’t ok then. Women just felt they couldn’t say anything. Thinking about it, it may have been ok during the Summer Of Love in Haight Ashbury, but that behavior was not ok with the rest of us.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 4, 2019 23:20:38 GMT
I like Joe, although I agree he crosses boundaries when he doesn't respect personal space. But I'm going to be real honest here. I'm voting for the candidate that I believe has the best chance of beating Trump. If Biden were to win the Democratic ticket, you better damn well believe I'm voting for him over Trump. He would make a better president. With that said, he hasn't even announced that he is running and I doubt that he will now. ITA. He rates the highest so far,and I think that a lot of people are very comfortable and reassured voting for older men. Besides that, Biden certainly doesn't appear to be "old" like Trump or even Bernie. He has a youthful, intelligent quality and I adore his personality. I'd definitely vote for him. He'd have a great chance of winning, regardless of his age. If he chose Beto as his V.P., that would just cinch the deal!!!!!! As for his being too touchy, he should be advised to begin backing off, for appearances sake. It's hilarious that the complaining woman was seen with her hand on Biden (& that's okay??) and was fine with having Bernie touch her,but she says that Biden's touch was unwarranted? Something just sounds off to me. There is footage of Biden behaving the same way with men and women (Remember the Obama/Biden "bromance"?), but i agree that in this day and age people should try to be more mindful of boundaries. I'm hoping that Biden will anounce he's in the running. These accusations are baby stuff compared with real skeletons in other candidates' closets.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 4, 2019 23:32:52 GMT
From UPI.. This is what Lucy Flores said... ”Biden issued a statement responding to a piece former Nevada assemblywoman Lucy Flores in New York magazine's The Cut on Friday in which she said Biden approached her from behind, grabbed her shoulders, leaned in and "inhaled my hair," then kissed her on the back of the head while she was waiting to speak at a political event hosted by Biden when she was running for lieutenant governor in 2014. This is what Biden said... “In my many years on the campaign trial and in public life, I have offered countless handshakes, hugs, expressions of affection, support and comfort," Biden said in a statement, according to CNN. "And not once -- never -- did I believe I acted inappropriately. If it is suggested that I did so, I will listen respectfully. But it was never my intention." Here are my questions... 1. Would Biden offer the same type of support/comfort/expressions of affection/hugs or whatever you want call it, that Flores outlined to a guy? 2. If not, why is ok to do it to a woman? It has been interesting to see the spin many have put on his actions in way to make them ok on this thread and on twitter. Even a feminist offered her take. As a feminist myself, I have always felt the objective was that men and women be treated equally. So unless Biden is going to start offering encouragement to guys by walking up behind them, put his hands on their shoulders, smell their hair, and then kiss the back of their head, what he did was unacceptable to Flores and any woman, for that matter, because it demonstrates a double standard. Nor do we get to decide how a person should feel personally about how someone shows support or encouragement toward them. I'D like to think that I'm a feminist too. That being said, (as I already posted), we have tons of pics and footage of Biden with Obama, acting the same way!!! He hugs men the same way as he hugs women. He even rubs noses, rubs shoulders and generally shows support and encouragement to PEOPLE regardless of their gender. I have no doubt that he'd kiss the back of a man's head the same way. Perhaps Ms. Flores took it a certain way?? They seem to be friendly enough that I'm surprised she didn't just put a stop to it if she was uncomfortable. It raises a huge red flag to me, and I normally side with any person claiming to be taken advantage of. I'm having a tough time with these very new accusations. Google to see Biden's relationship with Obama. Look at Pete Souza's pics... It almost seemed like a bromance, but it's mutual love and respect, and above all Biden adores his wife and has respect for his marriage. BTW, we could all go on and on about GWb and his friendly/fliety/funny relationship with Michelle Obama. We might take that a certain way o...
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Post by jackie on Apr 4, 2019 23:48:28 GMT
Three women, seven women, the point is none claimed malice, sexual assault, etc.; they said they were “uncomfortable”. Okay, he said he understands, he gets it, he’ll be more mindful of that. Aren’t there more important issues to discuss? And the only reason I brought up Trump is because I was asked a specific question about him and his behavior. Personally I think there is no real comparison between that rapey misogynist and the kind but misguided Biden. I hope he does get it. That's the whole point of discussing things like this, so people like Biden finally get it and stop doing it.
I don't care if there are "more important issues to discuss", this issue is important to discuss. Whether something else is more important than this does not in any way negate the importance of women defending their right to personal autonomy. There are a lot of very important issues and if you feel this specific topic is a waste of your time, then fine. I feel it's worth discussing and anyone else that thinks similarly is invited to participate. No one is forcing anyone here to engage.
I hope he gets it too, so we can put this nonsense to rest very soon. And that’s fine if you don’t care that there are more important issues to discuss. You clearly think this is very important and can discuss it for another four pages if you like. And yes, if I feel it’s a waste of time I can drop out, which I most likely will. My comment about there being “more important issues to discuss” was really more of a comment out to the universe than to you or any specific peas. We discuss all kinds of things here, at all levels of importance and gravity and should continue to do so as we wish. I just feel personally that this is becoming ridiculous. Women aren’t saying they were harassed, assaulted, or that they feel any malice or bad intent was involved, just that they were “uncomfortable”. No one wants to see anyone be uncomfortable if it can be helped, but we are coming up on an election year following the most contentious presidency I can recall in my lifetime. I just wish we could get on track with some real issues. If people feel Biden wouldn’t be a good candidate for presidency due to issues outside of hair-sniffing, THAT I can understand. But since this issue is important to you, by all means carry on.
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Deleted
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Apr 19, 2024 10:51:20 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Apr 5, 2019 0:00:31 GMT
From UPI.. This is what Lucy Flores said... ”Biden issued a statement responding to a piece former Nevada assemblywoman Lucy Flores in New York magazine's The Cut on Friday in which she said Biden approached her from behind, grabbed her shoulders, leaned in and "inhaled my hair," then kissed her on the back of the head while she was waiting to speak at a political event hosted by Biden when she was running for lieutenant governor in 2014. This is what Biden said... “In my many years on the campaign trial and in public life, I have offered countless handshakes, hugs, expressions of affection, support and comfort," Biden said in a statement, according to CNN. "And not once -- never -- did I believe I acted inappropriately. If it is suggested that I did so, I will listen respectfully. But it was never my intention." Here are my questions... 1. Would Biden offer the same type of support/comfort/expressions of affection/hugs or whatever you want call it, that Flores outlined to a guy? 2. If not, why is ok to do it to a woman? It has been interesting to see the spin many have put on his actions in way to make them ok on this thread and on twitter. Even a feminist offered her take. As a feminist myself, I have always felt the objective was that men and women be treated equally. So unless Biden is going to start offering encouragement to guys by walking up behind them, put his hands on their shoulders, smell their hair, and then kiss the back of their head, what he did was unacceptable to Flores and any woman, for that matter, because it demonstrates a double standard. Nor do we get to decide how a person should feel personally about how someone shows support or encouragement toward them. I'D like to think that I'm a feminist too. That being said, (as I already posted), we have tons of pics and footage of Biden with Obama, acting the same way!!! He hugs men the same way as he hugs women. He even rubs noses, rubs shoulders and generally shows support and encouragement to PEOPLE regardless of their gender. I have no doubt that he'd kiss the back of a man's head the same way. Perhaps Ms. Flores took it a certain way?? They seem to be friendly enough that I'm surprised she didn't just put a stop to it if she was uncomfortable. It raises a huge red flag to me, and I normally side with any person claiming to be taken advantage of. I'm having a tough time with these very new accusations. Google to see Biden's relationship with Obama. Look at Pete Souza's pics... It almost seemed like a bromance, but it's mutual love and respect, and above all Biden adores his wife and has respect for his marriage. BTW, we could all go on and on about GWb and his friendly/fliety/funny relationship with Michelle Obama. We might take that a certain way o... When Biden goes and start kissing President Obama on the back of the head, you all will have made your case. Until then, IMO, Biden’s actions were unacceptable. They are unacceptable now and they were unacceptable back in the day. It boils down to how men treat women and what they feel is their right to do or can get away with. It shows a lack of respect toward women. As women we have always had a hard time getting the respect that men automatically get. We have to work harder at it. Glossing over actions like Biden has done, is probably one of the reason why.
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