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Post by snowsilver on Apr 9, 2019 21:01:07 GMT
Even if you hate Trump with every fiber of your being, do you honestly think he is wrong about the border crisis? Here is a story that is currently making headlines on Fox (and yes, I know many of you hate Fox News, but the story is direct quotes from border officials so I can't see what there is to quibble about with it:
"A caravan-size influx of migrants is flooding across the border each week in just a single sector, a top Border Patrol official told lawmakers Tuesday -- the latest indicator of the growing migration crisis on the southern border.
“Much media attention has focused on caravans coming across from Central America,” Rio Grande Valley Sector Chief Patrol Agent Rodolfo Karisch said at a Senate Homeland Security Committee hearing. “But the fact is that RGV is receiving caravan-equivalent numbers every seven days.”
Karisch said his sector has apprehended people from 50 different countries, including China, Bangladesh, Turkey, Egypt and Romania.
“People are traveling across hemispheres to attempt to illegally enter the U.S., using the same pathways as the Central Americans,” he said.
Karisch noted that Border Patrol has apprehended more families illegally crossing the border in the first five months of fiscal 2019 than during all of fiscal 2018. Customs and Border Protection (CBP) apprehended more than 76,000 migrants across the border in February and said it was on track to apprehend more than 100,000 in March.
In the Rio Grande Valley alone, Karisch said that at current pace, they would have more than 260,000 apprehensions in his sector by the end of fiscal 2019. There were 162,000 in RGV last year. He also said that his agents apprehend, on average, 1,000 people a day.
Karisch’s testimony is the latest warning from officials that there is an escalating crisis at the border. President Trump, who declared a national emergency at the border in February, traveled to the border on Friday and repeated his warnings that he is prepared to close the border if Congress and Mexico do not act to close loopholes and stop migrant flows -- though he has indicated such an action is not imminent.
Last week, Obama-era Border Patrol Chief Mark Morgan told senators on Thursday that the U.S. is “experiencing a crisis at the southern border at a magnitude never seen in modern times.”
Karisch on Tuesday gave a similarly dour assessment, saying that in 30 years as an agent, “I have never witnessed the conditions we are currently facing on the southwest border.”
“This is not a manufactured crisis created by those of us who live and work in the border area. Border Patrol continues to apprehend record numbers of people who purposely violate U.S. immigration laws, we are taken advantage of by gaps in our legal frameworks and that undermine the rule of laws.” Karisch’s remarks come as Trump is shaking up leadership at the Department of Homeland Security, apparently to take a tougher stance on illegal immigration. Department of Homeland Security Secretary Kirstjen Nielsen resigned on Sunday and last week Trump abruptly pulled the nomination of Ron Vitiello to lead Immigration and Customs Enforcement (ICE), saying he wanted to go “in a tougher direction.”
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Post by Zee on Apr 9, 2019 21:16:39 GMT
Why is there a sudden "crisis"? Do you have an actual honest answer as to why this is a real crisis? What's happening that makes this an emergency?
I work with a lot of Spanish-speaking patients. I have yet to encounter one of these recent immigrants (and i don't know if they're legal or not) who doesn't work a tough job, whether it be construction, landscaping, meat processing, farm help. Maybe we're going about things the wrong way. No one here encourages their child to work at the chicken processing plant. Who will do those jobs? Only those who really need the money and don't feel those jobs are beneath them. That means people who haven't grown up here in our pampered society.
I most likely won't get any real answer here but just thought I'd share my feelings. I don't think closing ourselves of from the rest of the world is a real solution. It's very medieval China. It's not sustainable in the modern era.
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Post by myshelly on Apr 9, 2019 21:16:52 GMT
I don’t think there’s a “crisis”.
People aren’t illegal. Let them in. We have enough to share.
I think Trump’s narrative on immigration and refugees is appalling and clearly fueled by racism.
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Gennifer
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Post by Gennifer on Apr 9, 2019 21:17:16 GMT
🙋🏼♀️
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Gennifer
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Post by Gennifer on Apr 9, 2019 21:18:19 GMT
I also didn’t panic about Y2K or the avian flu. Or walking barefoot through airport security.
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Post by busy on Apr 9, 2019 21:21:10 GMT
There are a lot of asylum-seekers, and there are humanitarian crises on both ends - both where they are fleeing and how they are being treated when they arrive.
Policies of the Trump administration are making the situations on both ends far worse.
There is NOT an illegal immigration crisis, which is what Trump and his craven minions are selling to their fearful and/or racist constituents.
It’s really rich how so many Trump supporters are so concerned with immigrants entering legally but absolutely don’t give a flying shit that Trump polices have repeatedly broken existing laws in their “handling” of the situation. Do you care about the “rule of law” or not? Pick a lane.
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Post by workingclassdog on Apr 9, 2019 21:21:17 GMT
Not a Trump supporter or anyone else for that matter.... I do think there are some critical issues that need to be addressed. If people are entering the country illegally then something needs to be done. I don't have that answer.
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pilcas
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Post by pilcas on Apr 9, 2019 21:21:59 GMT
I don’t think there is a crisis. There can be a better controlled border, I would not deny that. But when a president just calls an entire nation rapists and murderers it’s just stinks of racism.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 9, 2019 21:23:54 GMT
If illegals are such a big problem, why are the people who overstay their visas not being treated the same as those at the border? Why so much emphasis on the Hispanic/Latino people?
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Post by twinks on Apr 9, 2019 21:26:07 GMT
I think there is a real problem with immigration and something has to be done. I am not sure building a wall or closing the borders is the answer. Is it a crisis? I am not sure.
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Post by myshelly on Apr 9, 2019 21:26:16 GMT
I also think that a lot of people Trump and ice label as “illegal” aren’t illegal.
One of the *legal* ways to seek asylum is to be *in* the country and then ask for asylum. Trump is trying to paint the narrative that that’s illegal and it’s not. It’s not illegal for those people to cross the border.
I went to an immigration symposium two weeks ago and people from The Bush Institute had nothing but negative criticism for the ways Trump is treating immigration. Everything he is doing is making it worse. Never thought I would see the day when I would long for Bush as the voice of reason in public policy, but we’re there.
We don’t need more Border Patrol or ICE. We need more asylum courts. We need better and more appropriate sensitivity training for BP and ICE. We need ways to help more people come here legally. Lift arbitrary caps on people from certain countries. Make the process faster and cheaper.
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Post by 950nancy on Apr 9, 2019 21:37:20 GMT
He hired "illegals" for years so he didn't have to pay high(er) wages. I see him as 100% hypocrite. His dad was born in Germany? Honestly, his consistent lying makes it hard for me to believe anything he declares.
Is the border an issue? Yes, it has been for years. Laws need to be changed and money needs to be spent (not on a useless wall) to make the borders more secure, but I don't see it as a crisis.
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Post by papersilly on Apr 9, 2019 21:39:27 GMT
we have had people streaming through those borders since the beginning of time. i believe we have just as many tourists coming through the ports and never going back to their countries. they, too, are part of the millions of "illegals" in this country.
i might get flamed for saying this but i'll say it anyway. i believe that trump detests what he perceives to be the culture of poverty. to him, nothing is more obvious of that than the people walking through the border. they are of color, disheveled, and poor. they may be sick. they may be malnourished. worse yet, they don't speak our language. they don't look like the European tourists that overstay, or the asian tourists that overstay, or the other people who were "rich" enough to fly in but never go back. why trump is not hyper-focusing on them is clear when you consider his comments in the past. remember the "they're murderers and rapists. they're bringing drugs into this country" comment? as if the overstay people aren't capable of committing crimes or they are less likely too because they didn't walk across the border.
this "crisis" is nothing more than another racist and classist jab hiding behind the cloak of national security.
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Post by hop2 on Apr 9, 2019 21:41:45 GMT
If you can only apply for asylum at a point of entry ( our current laws ). How are they ‘illegal’ to come &present themselves at the border & ask for asylum. They are doing what our laws have said they need to do.
IF they sneak across without going to a border crossing, yes, that’s illegal. But showing up at a regulated border crossing & applying for asylum is not against the laws of our country. ( at least not yet ) How can you have a law that says in order to apply for asylum you must be at a point of entry then tell them when they get to a point of entry they are illegal?
IF they are denied asylum & don’t leave, yes, then they are illegal. But just coming & asking is NOT against our current laws & Trump & company have to stop saying it is.
If you don’t want people to have to come to our border to apply for asylum CHANGE the laws that say you have to.
So no, we do not have an ‘illegal immigration crisis’ at the southern border we have a huge humanitarian crisis which this administration isn’t doing anything to fix. Also, a wall won’t fix people coming to our border & asking for asylum. You want to fix that, fix the humanitarian crisis. OR change our laws by making it illegal to ask for asylum, OR make it so they have to apply elsewhere like at an embassy. But they still require a court case to be heard & decided if they will or won’t be granted asylum.
No, people doing what our laws tell them to do in order to apply for asylum is not ‘illegal’ it is what our current laws require they do.
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scorpeao
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Post by scorpeao on Apr 9, 2019 21:44:23 GMT
I don't think there's a border crisis.
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Post by hop2 on Apr 9, 2019 21:48:26 GMT
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Post by papercrafteradvocate on Apr 9, 2019 21:52:40 GMT
No, I don’t think there is a crisis, other than the one trump has incited for the sole purpose of division.
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carhoch
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Post by carhoch on Apr 9, 2019 22:04:21 GMT
www.nytimes.com/2019/04/09/upshot/trump-america-full-or-emptying.htmlA generation of aging whites is literally trying to block the young immigrants needed to pay their Medicare &Social Security. An aging population and declining birthrates among the native-born population are creating underpopulated cities and towns, vacant housing Heidi Przybyla
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Post by shevy on Apr 9, 2019 22:05:19 GMT
I've watched and read a lot about the 'crisis'. I think that immigration specifically from Mexico, Central and South America has been an issue for years and years.
I think it was one of the things that President Trump decided was a talking point for him in the election and he needs to continue with it because of all the talking he did. However, the crisis to me isn't the border and who's coming over, the crisis is really about the immigration court system and how drawn out it's become. 10-15 years ago if one of my clients was in deportation, it was settled well within a year. But now, I've had clients who committed major felony offenses who are in deportation court for years, usually spending the last 9 months- year in custody. The system is so bogged down that cases are stretching into decades long fights, wasting not only the immigrant's time, but the attorneys, the court personnel, the federal agents assigned to supervise/monitor and the Judges. It's a great waste of money.
I know of a couple of European families near me that have come here 20 years ago with children who were not citizens yet and are forced to leave the US as soon as they turn 18.
I also know that many many farms that aren't quite family farms but are much smaller than factory farms, rely on illegals to work the farm. It's a dying kind of work that kids no longer take over the farms and don't want to work on the farms. Illegal immigrants are more than willing to be hired on and do the work. These farms will die out even more as illegals are taken from the workforce in this area.
I don't know what the right answer is for immigration, other than, lets get the courts caught up and see where the problem is at that time.
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pudgygroundhog
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Post by pudgygroundhog on Apr 9, 2019 22:07:51 GMT
Actual data doesn't support there being a crisis. Immigration has been trending downwards for awhile. I think we are long overdue for comprehensive immigration reform (make it easier for people to come in legally and do something with workers visa or something similar because there is a huge demand for labor - demonstrated by Trump hiring illegal immigrants and putting in requests for guest worker visas for his vineyards). But I believe the crisis is manufactured to rally the base (often appealing to their darker tendencies). And I think the language and lies he uses to prop up his ideas is dangerous.
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pudgygroundhog
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Post by pudgygroundhog on Apr 9, 2019 22:10:55 GMT
www.nytimes.com/2019/04/09/upshot/trump-america-full-or-emptying.htmlA generation of aging whites is literally trying to block the young immigrants needed to pay their Medicare &Social Security. An aging population and declining birthrates among the native-born population are creating underpopulated cities and towns, vacant housing Heidi Przybyla I was pretty surprised when I started reading about how much money immigrants (both legal and illegal) pay into our systems like Social Security and the amount of taxes generated (sales tax, income tax, property taxes). I think this is why people have turned a blind eye to immigration woes for so long - it always comes down to money. The government is benefiting from the money, the employers are benefiting from cheap labor, and Americans love their cheap goods and services.
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Post by crazy4scraps on Apr 9, 2019 22:12:22 GMT
There are issues with people crossing illegally, sure. Those problems have been going on for decades and need to be addressed intelligently, but I wouldn’t call it any more of a “crisis” now than it ever was and a wall isn’t ever going to fix it.
But the FACT is that a much larger percentage (by a very wide margin) of people who are *actually illegally* here are visa overstays, not people sneaking across any of our borders. I also agree with everyone here who says that you can’t call someone trying to *legally apply* for asylum an illegal immigrant. That’s just wrong and it needs to stop.
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Post by teacherlisa on Apr 9, 2019 22:13:23 GMT
I am not a Trump supporter. I did not vote for Trump. I wish he were not the President. I am not happy with how he is handling the immigration situation.
I live in southern arizona, fairly close to the border, along a corridor frequently used to smuggle immigrants, money,guns and drugs. There is a very serious problem. I too, do not have all the answers. I do not normally post on political threads and I do not wish to argue with anyone.
Some of the problems that occur in my area are:
People trespassing on land, using/abusing the resources of said land
People who are undocumented are often afraid and desperate. They will commit crimes that can harm others. The persons who are smuggling them are absolutely willing to commit crimes that harm others.
Many of our classrooms are overfilled.Many of the students families are non taxpayers, and school funding is dependent on that. Many of our hospital beds,ERs etc are overfilled, and overworked by persons who will not be able to pay. This can be a huge burden for them.
Immigrants are dying. Many do not survive the harsh desert conditions, or are executed by their smugglers. Many die in motor vehicle accidents while fleeing law enforcement. Many women and children are raped. Many are held hostage until family members provide more money.
The immigrants are also required to wear backpacks filled with drugs.
The list goes on and on and is always changing as law enforcement solves one issue, another one crops up.
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moodyblue
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Post by moodyblue on Apr 9, 2019 22:24:08 GMT
The only border crisis is one created by Donald Trump - and he’s a huge hypocrite because he has used undocumented immigrants in his own businesses for years.
If people arrive and present themselves for asylum according to our laws, they should get a timely hearing. We probably do need more personnel to process the applicants, and that could be addressed rather than spending money on a wall that won’t solve any problems. We also need to figure out how to handle efficiently those who cross illegally, but are willing to work and pay taxes.
Cutting off aide to the very countries these asylum seekers are coming from just exacerbates the problem.
Trump's rhetoric stirs up people like him - those who dislike poor people, those who want to make the US more white, the aging whites who don’t understand that we NEED labor, including for jobs most people already here don’t want to work, and to pay for the benefits the retiring people need.
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Post by iamkristinl16 on Apr 9, 2019 22:26:39 GMT
I don't believe anything that Trump says and I also don't believe anything that comes from Fox News, regardless of who they say they are interviewing or quoting.
It does sound like the numbers of asylum seekers has increased in the last few months. I think we need to take a look at why that is. Surely it isn't because Trump and ICE are so welcoming and friendly. So, what is happening in their home countries that traveling here, risking their lives and possibly being separated from their kids, is the best choice that they have? I think that if people (particularly Republicans) could look at the situation with some empathy, we would get farther than treating people like they are criminals and building the fear in people who don't like "others". Also, taking away the aid that we provide needs to be looked at more closely. The explanation I heard was that it must not be helping because we still have so many people coming here. That seems like faulty logic to me. How do they know that without the aid it wouldn't be even worse? Has anyone looked at what is going on in those countries and if there is a better way to help?
I don't know if we need more border security agents or not, but I do think that we need to look at the process and how it can be more efficient and more humane. I don't think the current administration can or will do that. That also doesn't mean just saying, "we are full. Don't come here."
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pyccku
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Post by pyccku on Apr 9, 2019 22:28:43 GMT
We need to reform the immigration system. We need immigrants - they aren't taking your jobs, unless you are the type of person who didn't graduate from high school and can't get a job elsewhere.
How many people do you know who tell their kids to work hard so they can someday work in food service? Or housekeeping in a hotel or hospital? Or in the fields? Americans don't want to do these jobs, and they definitely don't want to do them for the wages paid. The rich white guys in charge have no problem with immigrants when it saves them money - but they know that they can't admit that, because it won't get them your vote. So they tell you that "those people" are trying to "steal your jobs" and only the rich white guys can stop them. They have no intention of doing so. Even though Trump makes a big deal about getting rid of the immigrants, if he really did try to deport them all the country would come to a standstill. They simply contribute too much, and too much profit is made off of them.
With the population declining in many countries, we can see what happens when the youthful base isn't large enough to support a large population of elderly, non-working people. Without the contributions of immigrants, retirees may need to think again about leaving the workforce.
Trump's tax cut and budget were pretty ambitious - they assumed 4% growth annually. That would be great, but we happen to be at near full employment right now. So where are the employees to fuel that growth going to come from? There are three possible ways to increase your employee pool: 1. people who aren't currently working enter the labor force (students and retirees, generally) 2. people who are already working take on more hours or second/third jobs 3. immigrants enter the labor force
So if we are banking on that 4% growth, which group is going to be making it happen? Retired Peas, are you ready to come back into the work force? How about those of you already working 40 hours per week - are you interested in making it 60-70? How about your high school kids - is it time for them to drop out to enter the job market?
The system needs to be fixed. There is no good way for migrants to work legally - no way that isn't cumbersome. They need the work, we need the workers. And there's the issue right now - the old white guys don't want to admit that we need the brown people - because that would upset the racist factions of their base.
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pudgygroundhog
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Post by pudgygroundhog on Apr 9, 2019 22:36:06 GMT
We need to reform the immigration system. We need immigrants - they aren't taking your jobs, unless you are the type of person who didn't graduate from high school and can't get a job elsewhere. My favorite -- if you think immigrants are taking our jobs and also believe they are rapist and drug dealers - WTF job do you do? lol. ITA with everything you've said. When I was back home visiting my parents in a small rural town in Nebraska, I kept hearing about how businesses couldn't get workers at all. I told them it sounds like they need some immigrants to come in and do the work.
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Post by sunshine on Apr 9, 2019 22:38:47 GMT
I don't believe anything that comes from the left wing media mouthpieces at CNN or MSNBC, but I will believe what a member in this thread said happens at the border. If she lives it, she knows the truth.
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Post by Really Red on Apr 9, 2019 22:53:00 GMT
Thank you all for saying it more eloquently and fact-filled than I. For those who truly believe there is a crisis, read what Rep. Hurd (R, TX) has to say.
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carhoch
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Post by carhoch on Apr 9, 2019 23:04:06 GMT
It drives me crazy when people say they just need to come here legally ...I came in legally it’s extremely complicated And it’s extremely expensive ! If they don’t speak English well and have the money it’s just not happening and I believe that we need them, maybe not all of them but we need A lot of them.
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