used2scrap
Drama Llama
Posts: 6,026
Jan 29, 2016 3:02:55 GMT
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Post by used2scrap on Apr 9, 2019 23:09:08 GMT
It drives me crazy when people say they just need to come here legally ...I came in legally it’s extremely complicated And it’s extremely expensive ! If they don’t speak English well and have the money it’s just not happening and I believe that we need them, maybe not all of them but we need A lot of them. Presenting yourself at the border and asking for asylum is the legal way.
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Post by revirdsuba99 on Apr 9, 2019 23:10:38 GMT
If illegals are such a big problem, why are the people who overstay their visas not being treated the same as those at the border? Why so much emphasis on the Hispanic/Latino people? There are far more illegal immigrants who have overstayed their Visa from all over the world. THAT is an issue that needs to be addressed! Actually, we do need more border patrol officers much more than we need a wall. When there are parts of the border where border patrols response time is 4 hours or more, you need more border patrol officers rather than wall. Why don’t you read a few articles about a REPUBLICAN congressman who represents one of the largest areas of our southern border and see his take on the situation. He represent his constituents who are AT the border. Yes we do need more Border Patrol officers, they are thousands short and more immigration judges. It is a hard job and shold be paid as such! Many of our classrooms are overfilled.Many of the students families are non taxpayers, and school funding is dependent on that. Many of our hospital beds,ERs etc are overfilled, and overworked by persons who will not be able to pay. This can be a huge burden for them. Many undocumented immigrants do in fact pay taxes. Buy gas, shop at stores and many other transactions. A note: many, if not most, hospitals get reimbursed for some expenses, called Charity care, which many citizens also use with no healthcare they need Charity care! It is also documented that most of the drugs come through legal ports of entry by air, sea and yes some over the southern border. Most, not all, those coming across the southern border are, at present, families with children seeking asylum, which is legal! There are several reason this is happening. The Northern Triangle countries are in severe crisis. Their governments are not so good, there are gangs, no work, no decent food, and the list could go on forever. I have no doubt that the word has spread that the border may be closed to all and some people are rushing to get across. Another document situation is that well over 90%, maybe more, of those who are asking for asylum in the past who have registered, show up for their hearings! They don't disappear into wide open spaces. OP: do you have a lik for your piece? Thanks
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pudgygroundhog
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 4,642
Location: The Grand Canyon
Jun 25, 2014 20:18:39 GMT
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Post by pudgygroundhog on Apr 9, 2019 23:11:04 GMT
It drives me crazy when people say they just need to come here legally ...I came in legally it’s extremely complicated And it’s extremely expensive ! If they don’t speak English well and have the money it’s just not happening and I believe that we need them, maybe not all of them but we need A lot of them. ITA! If it was easier to come here legally, people would go that route. I don't think people understand how difficult it is. Also, I think some people who say they should come here legally, don't really believe that either - they don't want brown people here period.
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Post by revirdsuba99 on Apr 9, 2019 23:13:38 GMT
Also, I think some people who say they should come here legally, don't really believe that either - they don't want brown people here period. This is why immigrants at the airports and sea ports are not stopped by border patrol... also why so many drugs come through those ports of entry too! Bold mine.
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Post by busy on Apr 9, 2019 23:17:42 GMT
It drives me crazy when people say they just need to come here legally ...I came in legally it’s extremely complicated And it’s extremely expensive ! If they don’t speak English well and have the money it’s just not happening and I believe that we need them, maybe not all of them but we need A lot of them. Presenting yourself at the border and asking for asylum is the legal way. And it does NOT have to be at particular points of entry, despite what Trump’s recent policies say.
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Post by teacherlisa on Apr 9, 2019 23:18:35 GMT
revirdsuba99 I agree that many do pay (and do not benefit from) taxes, and that some of hospital expenses of undocumented immigrant and citizen hospital bills are reimbursed. 2 hospitals in my county have closed that were unable to survive due to hospital bills not being paid. This is not solely an undocumented immigrant problem, but it is part of the problem. A lot of drugs do come through legal ports of entry, but a lot do not. This is of concern because the immigrants themselves are put at risk to backpack these drugs in. They are at serious risk of violence. One smuggler steals/kills from another smuggler. This is legit happening. There are signs all over my county warning citizens to stay out of certain areas due to this violence. Guns, money and people are also trafficked and just as dangerous. I do not believe the answer is the wall. But, there are some very serious problems happening along the border. edited to add: Many of the immigrants who are paying taxes are using another persons identity. This creates a lot of problems for citizens who now have to prove they are not working that second job.
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Post by busy on Apr 9, 2019 23:32:07 GMT
I don't believe anything that comes from the left wing media mouthpieces at CNN or MSNBC, but I will believe what a member in this thread said happens at the border. If she lives it, she knows the truth. Anecdotes =/ data Do those things happen? Yes. There is also crime in every community in this country. What opioids are doing to many of our communities are a far bigger crisis than the border "crisis."
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Post by lucyg on Apr 9, 2019 23:36:45 GMT
I don't believe anything that comes from the left wing media mouthpieces at CNN or MSNBC, but I will believe what a member in this thread said happens at the border. If she lives it, she knows the truth. Yes, but are you willing to concede that much of the illegal immigration and violence at the border is a direct result of our draconian immigration laws? Telling people to come legally is ridiculous when we make it damn near impossible for them to come legally. We want them to pick produce and clean hotel rooms, but we deliberately make it harder and more dangerous for them to do it. And then the Trump cultists spit on them.
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Post by teacherlisa on Apr 9, 2019 23:55:34 GMT
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Deleted
Posts: 0
Mar 28, 2024 17:42:47 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Apr 10, 2019 0:03:27 GMT
Crisis? No.
BUT I do believe in border security. Not a huge wall, but more agents, better technology, new cameras, ect. But that is for BOTH borders. Not just south. Mainly for drugs, guns, human trafficking.
We also need better, straight forward policies on those seeking to enter due to REAL crisis in the countries they are leaving.
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Post by hop2 on Apr 10, 2019 0:11:40 GMT
Yeah, he’ll just write another executive order like he did for the Dakota pipeline.
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Post by revirdsuba99 on Apr 10, 2019 0:26:04 GMT
We want them to pick produce and clean hotel rooms trump propertiesin Florida are getting rid of their undocumented employees, somw of whom have been there over 10 years. Yeah, he’ll just write another executive order like he did for the Dakota pipeline. Sure, why not they are already on land in Texas that has not been through the courts. Just taking it!
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PrettyInPeank
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 4,691
Jun 25, 2014 21:31:58 GMT
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Post by PrettyInPeank on Apr 10, 2019 0:31:01 GMT
IMO the only crisis is the thousands of children in cages still separated from their parents.
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Post by annaintx on Apr 10, 2019 0:31:36 GMT
Here's a new crisis at the TX border--"The Trump administration has reassigned so many inspectors from U.S.-Mexico border crossings that truckers are waiting in line for hours and sometimes days to get shipments to the United States." It's now taking DAYS for shipments to get across the border, thanks to that asshat. Border chaos forces truckers to wait hours, sometimes days
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Post by sunshine on Apr 10, 2019 0:32:39 GMT
I don't believe anything that comes from the left wing media mouthpieces at CNN or MSNBC, but I will believe what a member in this thread said happens at the border. If she lives it, she knows the truth. Yes, but are you willing to concede that much of the illegal immigration and violence at the border is a direct result of our draconian immigration laws?Telling people to come legally is ridiculous when we make it damn near impossible for them to come legally. We want them to pick produce and clean hotel rooms, but we deliberately make it harder and more dangerous for them to do it. And then the Trump cultists spit on them. I absolutely agree that our laws, flaws and loopholes are creating this. Congress needs to do their jobs because our flaws are being exploited.
Even Obama officials and current democrats are starting to say this is a problem. Maybe it's time to stop listening to the left wing media.
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katybee
Drama Llama
Posts: 5,376
Jun 25, 2014 23:25:39 GMT
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Post by katybee on Apr 10, 2019 0:34:18 GMT
I don't believe anything that comes from the left wing media mouthpieces at CNN or MSNBC, but I will believe what a member in this thread said happens at the border. If she lives it, she knows the truth. Yes, but are you willing to concede that much of the illegal immigration and violence at the border is a direct result of our draconian immigration laws? Not to mention the role the US has played in the unrest in Central American countries. Seriously, people...google it.
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katybee
Drama Llama
Posts: 5,376
Jun 25, 2014 23:25:39 GMT
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Post by katybee on Apr 10, 2019 0:48:29 GMT
Yes, but are you willing to concede that much of the illegal immigration and violence at the border is a direct result of our draconian immigration laws? Not to mention the role the US has played in the unrest in Central American countries. Seriously, people...google it. Quoting myself to make sure people who are so concerned about the “crisis” at the border understand.... US Foreign Policy over the last 50 years helped create the chaos and violence in Guatemala, Honduras and El Salvador today. Whether it was our so-called “War on Drugs” or squashing labor reforms to protect our own business interests, we played a MAJOR role in this crisis. And now we are turning away people who are trying to escape the violence WE helped create. We like to pretend that we are the good guys...but really...we kind of suck. (But cheap bananas).
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Post by quinlove on Apr 10, 2019 1:01:42 GMT
The ONLY reason Trump says that there is a border emergency is so ~ ~ it appears that he really needs his wall !!!
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sassyangel
Drama Llama
Posts: 7,456
Jun 26, 2014 23:58:32 GMT
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Post by sassyangel on Apr 10, 2019 1:03:33 GMT
I do not. I think its something that is blown out of all reasonable proportion by Trump, in order to get funding for his goddamn wall.
Its as simple as that.
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Post by lucyg on Apr 10, 2019 1:41:40 GMT
Yes, but are you willing to concede that much of the illegal immigration and violence at the border is a direct result of our draconian immigration laws?Telling people to come legally is ridiculous when we make it damn near impossible for them to come legally. We want them to pick produce and clean hotel rooms, but we deliberately make it harder and more dangerous for them to do it. And then the Trump cultists spit on them. I absolutely agree that our laws, flaws and loopholes are creating this. Congress needs to do their jobs because our flaws are being exploited.
Even Obama officials and current democrats are starting to say this is a problem. Maybe it's time to stop listening to the left wing media.
I’m confused. Obama and the Democrats have been trying for years to reform the immigration laws. The right wing has consistently stood in their way. Are you trying to claim this is a Democratic-created problem?
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Post by Skellinton on Apr 10, 2019 1:44:30 GMT
No crisis at the border, imho. Completely 100% fear mongering by the real crisis; the orange menace in the White House.
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Post by lisae on Apr 10, 2019 1:44:59 GMT
We have a problem at the southern border. I'm sure for the people who have left their homes and almost everything they have to travel hundreds of miles to another country where the government says they don't want them, there is a crisis - a true crisis. Think of what it would take for you to abandon your home and extended family, possibly to never see them again to go to another country. Think of what it must be like in your home country for you to take a chance that you will be separated from your children? There is a crisis in Central America.
One of the reasons I understand for the migration is the fear these people live in at home because of drug cartels. And where is the market for these drugs? Right here in the US. And why do we have such an appetite for drugs from Mexico and Central America? Our own opiod crisis among other reasons. That is a true crisis. One that is being addressed to some degree but not nearly enough. I see Trump supporters saying that we can't take immigrants because we can't take care of our own people. Well then, get on the president to take care of our people - do something about healthcare, the influx of drugs through our legal points of entry, all of them, not just the southern border. It is beyond hypocritical to turn people away from our border when it is our own country's rise in drug use that has contributed to their problems in their own countries. If the aid we send them isn't getting through or whatever the administrations issue with it, then work diplomatically to fix that problem. Shutting the door and saying 'no more' is not only immoral but does nothing to resolve the problems in the long run.
And I don't believe our country is full. I constantly see 'help wanted' signs at restaurants and factories in my area. We are often one of the places slowest to recover from a recession and if we can't find enough workers, I'm sure there are plenty of other places in the country that are understaffed.
We have a problem at the southern border. It can be addressed. It just needs a leader who has the capacity to understand the causes of our problems, the ability to focus on more than one issue at a time, the intellect to review and select appropriate solutions, the humility to admit mistakes, the ability to hire and retain qualified people and the respect of the country. We currently do not have that leader. That is a crisis and I hope we fix it in November of 2020.
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Post by revirdsuba99 on Apr 10, 2019 1:45:05 GMT
Pentagon awarded contracts for wall/barriers El Paso to New Mexico and Yuma Arizona .. I’m confused. Obama and the Democrats have been trying for years to reform the immigration laws. The right wing has consistently stood in their way. Are you trying to claim this is a Democratic-created problem? GOP House and Senate for at least the last four years I think actually longer.
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Post by jinxmom2003 on Apr 10, 2019 1:45:25 GMT
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Post by revirdsuba99 on Apr 10, 2019 2:27:28 GMT
So very good to read until the end!! Only 447,731 "illegal aliens" were apprehended along the southwest border while attempting to enter the economically-decimated United States of 2010— a sharp contrast to the nearly 1.7 million apprehensions made by Border Patrol along the southwest border in 2000, during a time of record low unemployment. Where Cochise County Sheriff Dannels' dark claims before the U.S. Senate – of citizens living in the fearful shadow of violent immigrants and their soured American dream – were concerned, veteran Border Patrol agent and Tucson Sector spokesman John Lawson, who had worked the area for years, offered some skepticism. "Just look at the numbers, and see what they were – see what they are and see what they were – and how things have changed as a result of our increased enforcement efforts. Ah, I don't want to call anybody out – but I'm just telling you, read the stats and see for yourself," Lawson said when interviewed in the summer of 2016. "There's a lot of people cryin' wolf,” he added. In his written testimony to the Senate Homeland Security Committee, entered into the Congressional record in March 2015, Cochise County Sheriff Dannels stated six specific crimes, which he intimated were being inflicted upon the people of Cochise County by undocumented immigrants and their smugglers. Those offenses were: • Reckless high speed pursuits. • Assaults on citizens. • Rapes. • Kidnappings. • Murders. • Home invasions, including burglary. According to records obtained from the Cochise County Sheriff's Office, from 2011 through 2016 (the most recent year for which records are available), CCSO only had only three reports of burglary for which there was believed to be an "undocumented immigrant nexus," as CCSO Public Information Officer Carol Capas phrased it. Records relating to incidents believed to have an "undocumented immigrant nexus" were obtained from CCSO in response to public records requests seeking reports of the six major crimes enumerated by Dannels before the Senate, dating from 2011 through 2016, related in any way to individuals who had crossed the border illegally. In none of these burglary cases were any arrests made, and in at least one of these reports there was no reason for suspicion of undocumented immigrants given. During this same period there were only two reported kidnappings with an "undocumented immigrant nexus" reported to the sheriff's office – both of which were cases in which the immigrants claimed to have been abducted and forced to carry bundles of marijuana across the border, CCSO records show. Additional records show that from 2011 through 2016 there were only six pursuits in which CCSO deputies took part that had an "undocumented immigrant nexus." These pursuits resulted in the apprehension of fewer than 30 undocumented immigrants. At least two of these six reported pursuits, were alleged to have been perpetrated by U.S. citizens. During this same time period there were seven instances of assaults with an "undocumented immigrant nexus" reported to the sheriff's office, records show. Two of these reported assaults were alleged to have been inflicted on Border Patrol agents by individuals attempting to enter the country illegally. In one of these instances, an officer was allegedly punched by a man who was resisting arrest. In the other Border Patrol-related case, an agent claimed to have been hit in the face by a bundle of marijuana while apprehending a smuggler (on April 20, 2015) who was "attempting to cross bundles of marijuana into the United States." The remainder of these reported assaults – five in total – were alleged to have been inflicted on undocumented immigrants by either their smugglers or American citizens. In one case, a juvenile from El Salvador claimed to have been assaulted in a stash house in the Douglas area that he believed to have been owned by English-speaking American citizens. The boy said smugglers had attempted to extort more money from his mother, and that he was assaulted when his mother was unable to pay. According to records obtained from CCSO, from 2011 through 2016 there was one rape with an "undocumented immigrant nexus" reported to the sheriff's office. The woman who claimed to have been raped was a Mexican national. No information was given in the report relating to her assailant. During this same six-year period there were only two murders with an "undocumented immigrant nexus" reported to the sheriff's office, CCSO records show. One of these was reported on July 16, 2016, when the body of a man covered by a sleeping bag was found by the entrance of a guest ranch near U.S. Interstate 10. The body was reportedly that of Ramon Contreras Ramos, a Mexican citizen. Members of Ramos' family, contacted by phone, advised CCSO personnel that Ramos had entered the United States a few days earlier. They had been contacted by someone traveling with Ramos who said Ramos was suffering from chest and back pains, and that they were dropping him off at a specific exit on the Interstate. A motion-activated camera on the ranch gate reportedly captured images of Ramos being deposited at the gate by individuals traveling in a pickup truck, near midnight July 15. CCSO classified Ramos' death a homicide because the "unknown subjects in the vehicle had the means/opportunity to deliver Ramos to a hospital for medical care and failed to do so." The second, and final, homicide with an "undocumented immigrant nexus" reported to CCSO during this time occurred on the night of January 16, 2014, in the remote desert off State Route 80 near Apache, Arizona. The victim, later identified as Gabriel Sanchez-Velasquez, a Mexican citizen, had been shot twice –once in the chest, and once in the head – by Border Patrol agent Nathan Woods. According to records, Sanchez-Velasquez had been recently deported. Records indicate that Sanchez-Velasquez had a wife. According to CCSO records, Border Patrol agents had been pursuing a group of undocumented immigrants headed north, not far from the Arizona/New Mexico state line. Border Patrol spotters using thermal imaging scopes guided Woods to a mesquite tree where Sanchez-Velasquez was hiding. The agent grabbed the man by the arm and pulled him out of the tree. A struggle ensued, in which the two men grappled on the ground. Two shots were fired from the agent's weapon, and Sanchez-Velasquez fell dead. CCSO reports state that Sanchez-Velasquez had been unarmed, and record at least one account – of a Border Patrol agent who witnessed the shooting from a distance through a scope – who stated that he believed the man to have been secured on the ground, with the agent on top, when he heard the fatal shots fired. The Cochise County Attorney's Office later declined to prosecute Woods, stating that the killing had been justified. When asked if any major crimes (or crimes falling within these same six categories) related to illegal entrants had been reported to the Cochise County Sheriff's Office during 2018, Public Information Officer Carol Capas could not recall a single instance and did not provide any further information.www.phoenixnewtimes.com/news/border-crime-in-cochise-county-howard-buffett-immigration-11110407
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Post by bc2ca on Apr 10, 2019 3:13:44 GMT
I don't believe anything that comes from the left wing media mouthpieces at CNN or MSNBC, but I will believe what a member in this thread said happens at the border. If she lives it, she knows the truth. You are willing to dismiss a Texas Republican Congressman representing a border district for anecdotal scare stories? She isn't living it, she is repeating stories that have little basis in truth.
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Post by Merge on Apr 10, 2019 3:24:49 GMT
The ratio here is fun.
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PLurker
Prolific Pea
Posts: 9,730
Location: Behind the Cheddar Curtain
Jun 28, 2014 3:48:49 GMT
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Post by PLurker on Apr 10, 2019 3:34:28 GMT
Before reading thread, sorry if repeat...
If it's a crisis it has been for years and years. and years.
Why now? Because it occurred to trump to say so to further his agenda- whatever that is.
Promoting himself and enriching his life seems to me to be at the top of his list.
I vote no crisis the way he is describing. How immigration is being handled and immigrants mistreated is the crisis.
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PLurker
Prolific Pea
Posts: 9,730
Location: Behind the Cheddar Curtain
Jun 28, 2014 3:48:49 GMT
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Post by PLurker on Apr 10, 2019 3:44:52 GMT
We need to reform the immigration system. We need immigrants - they aren't taking your jobs, unless you are the type of person who didn't graduate from high school and can't get a job elsewhere. My favorite -- if you think immigrants are taking our jobs and also believe they are rapist and drug dealers - WTF job do you do? lol.ITA with everything you've said. When I was back home visiting my parents in a small rural town in Nebraska, I kept hearing about how businesses couldn't get workers at all. I told them it sounds like they need some immigrants to come in and do the work. don't forget they are also taking our jobs while simultaneously living off American's benefits all the while sitting on their backsides.
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Post by papersilly on Apr 10, 2019 3:53:41 GMT
I read an article not too long ago about a manufacturing town that was hiring lots and lots of immigrants. not because they didn't want to hire their locals. They tried! The problem was, they did regular drug testing because the workers have to operate machinery. many of the locals used drugs and alcohol and couldn't pass the drug tests so they couldn't be hired. Immigrants became desirable employees because many of their religions frown upon drug and alcohol use so drug testing was no problem for them. They were hard and dependable workers. So, If immigrants are "stealing" jobs, then ask you have to ask yourself why you aren't qualified to get a job or keep one.
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