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Post by heather on Apr 11, 2019 13:03:59 GMT
Just got back a few weeks ago from Europe where I visited 3 countries. Saw nothing like this...no razor wire, no machine guns. Razor wire and machine guns sounds like one was traveling through Fox News borders. And me without a backpack to wear on my chest!
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Deleted
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Apr 20, 2024 13:54:00 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Apr 11, 2019 13:23:36 GMT
Excellent summary. The good, the bad, the ugly. Of course, it will only impact those w/open minds. Not Foxbots. "The past two months have seen a huge spike in unauthorized migration, especially of families, into the US. The government’s capacity to handle an influx of large groups of children and families was already under serious strain at the end of last year. It’s now obviously overmatched — in what politicians of both parties are recognizing as a humanitarian crisis. This isn’t a manufactured crisis, or a politically engineered one, as some Democrats and progressives have argued. If it were, it would be easier to solve. What’s happening at the border is the result of a regional crisis in which — if current rates continue — close to 1 percent of the entire population of Guatemala and Honduras will attempt to immigrate to the US this year. The Mexican government, meanwhile, is vacillating between humanitarian rhetoric and militarized crackdowns, US border officials are openly begging for help, and Trump himself is throwing the mother of all temper tantrums... Three things are simultaneously true: The total number of people coming into the US without papers is still lower than it was for most of the 20th century, and substantially lower than its turn-of-the-century peak. The total number of people coming into the US without papers is now higher than it’s been since early 2007 — before the Great Recession — with February and March 2019 levels exceeding the child migrant crisis of 2014. The number of people coming into the US without papers who can’t simply be detained and deported — children, families, and asylum seekers — is almost certainly unprecedented. ... US law slices migrants into categories. People seeking to migrate for economic reasons or to reunite with family might have a way to migrate to the US legally, but they’re not allowed legal status if they arrive without papers. People fleeing persecution have the right once on US soil to apply for asylum, whether they have papers or not. ... In El Paso, Customs and Border Protection kept some families in a temporary holding pen under a bridge, with some families claiming they were kept there for several days. The holding pen was shut down at the end of March, after pictures of it attracted widespread shock and outrage, but CBP agents encouraged reporters to get pictures of it — pointing to it as an example of what they were forced to do because they had no other choice. It’s difficult to determine whether that’s true, because it’s really about counterfactuals — what else the Trump administration could have done in the past to prepare for this, or what other things it could be doing now. ( A world in which Trump spent as much time and money on processing centers for migrant families as he spent on a wall would look very different.)
... When the government simply dumps people outside bus stations, they end up lost, cold, and confused.... But since last summer, the administration has restricted asylum seekers trying to present themselves at ports of entry, allowing in only a fraction each day of the people who are waiting — a policy called “metering” or “queue management.” Faced with such a wait — sometimes in dangerous Mexican border towns — it’s logical that a migrant might choose to cross illegally to present their asylum claim instead.... 8) Will cutting off aid to the Northern Triangle countries help? Almost certainly not.... Of course, Trump’s view of migration makes it less likely that anyone will be able to start work on long-term solutions that might bear fruit down the road. It is almost certainly, in the meantime, going to get worse before it gets better." www.vox.com/2019/4/11/18290677/border-immigration-illegal-asylum-central-america-mexico-trump
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Post by jennyap on Apr 11, 2019 13:25:02 GMT
We went to Paris/London/Amsterdam (that one unplanned) this past year. What I found amazing was when we crossed the border, there was tons of security, razor wire, high fences, men with machine guns. Between countries that get along reasonably well. Yet that's ok. We try to do that here and we're horrible human beings. . Where was this?? Probably Calais. There's some fairly extensive security fencing around the ferry/Eurotunnel terminals there, ie on the effective border between France and the UK at that point. I don't get the comparison that freebird is trying to draw though. The US already has security fences at certain key points along its border, right? This is exactly the same as that. I can guarantee that if anyone suggested that we/France build a wall along the entire length of the border (let's ignore the English Channel for now...) there would be equal outrage.
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Post by revirdsuba99 on Apr 11, 2019 14:06:34 GMT
On the flip side of that are the people I have known who have drug problems, breed and suck off welfare/tax payers, sell drugs, are perfectly healthy and refuse to work. Each and every person (some close relatives, some neighbors and some acquaintances) that I know who are like that are white. Each and every one (no exaggeration). More white people are on welfare and SNAP etc then people of color! Way back there was clip of dt's surprise when someone told him there were white people on welfare... So random un-named ‘officials’ know more about the border than say a Republican congressman who represents a huge portion of the border? Can you provide links to those officials statements? ( other than the fear mongers at Fox? ) I provided at least 4 links from/about Congressman Hurd. From various different sources. O'Rourke lives in El Paso. El Paso has been listed as a safe city. Basically, and this is a very poor summary, is that when the border was loosely monitored, people crossed freely to work and then went back home. Once America started to crack down, the cost of being caught crossing the border jumped substantially, which encouraged workers to stay versus going back home. Credible.. migrant workers came here to the US to pick our crops. The same people came every year to the different farms. They followed the crops all the way across the states. They were not always treated well. The trouble is that the rich white guys in Washington have no clue what things cost, particularly food. Not likely they go to the stores to shop for anything! Even if they did know, it still wouldn't matter because they can afford whatever they wanted. The trouble is that the rich white guys in Washington have no clue what things cost, particularly food. Not likely they go to the stores to shop for anything! Even if they did know, it still wouldn't matter because they can afford whatever they wanted.
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Post by revirdsuba99 on Apr 11, 2019 14:23:51 GMT
Trump doesn’t want foreigners in the USA. He has CLEARLY stated that they are not good people, six ways to Sunday. He did the same thing with his “Muslim ban”. Trump wants the border wall solely to put his name on it. Period. The world has seen that he wants the wall, only the wall and nothing but the wall. Everything else that would make immigration better be damned. He already has sign on the REBUILD section of wall in California... Oh wow, I think Nielsen name is on it too. Wonder if he will want it changed?!? That’s why it makes more sense to give or even sell them working visas so we can stop criminalizing their presence and legitimize them. The working visa doesn’t have to be permanent. It can be for a certain period of time and renewal of it can be predicated on proof of employment. It makes absolutely no sense that the US is just fine taking their contributions to the system but regard them as illegal aliens. dt properties applied for work visas for the vineyard in Virginia (I think it was VA). Unfortunately, I think because there were not enough undocumented workers. We know they have hired many undocumented workers at their other properties. They are dumping people who have work at Mar-A-Lago for over 10 years.
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lizacreates
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 3,856
Aug 29, 2015 2:39:19 GMT
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Post by lizacreates on Apr 11, 2019 14:59:52 GMT
Sheesh. Even Ted Cruz had stated the obvious in hopes that Trump would listen…Dude, increase the number of immigration judges and provide expedited processing for asylum claims.
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Post by gar on Apr 11, 2019 15:27:11 GMT
OP? How do you feel about the answers to your question? Astonished. To me it is absolutely clear that we have a massive border crisis. Not only are Trump's people saying so, but so are some officials who served under Obama. It seems there certainly is some degree of crisis in dealing efficiently with those seeking asylum and the reasons why but I don’t see the crisis as trump is trying to portray it - that your country is being overrun with brown people.
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pyccku
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 2,817
Jun 27, 2014 23:12:07 GMT
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Post by pyccku on Apr 11, 2019 15:29:34 GMT
Countries I visited with my children last summer: Ireland England Poland France Germany Austria Slovakia
Countries where I saw razor wire and machine guns:
Countries where I felt in danger for me or my children:
Countries where we ate amazing kebab,noodles and other things prepared by immigrants: England France Germany Austria
Countries where I saw reminders of the days when Jews, immigrants and other undesirables were rounded up for extermination because people were scared of them due to evil leaders selling fear: France Poland Germany
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Deleted
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Apr 20, 2024 13:54:00 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Apr 11, 2019 15:57:45 GMT
We went to Paris/London/Amsterdam (that one unplanned) this past year. What I found amazing was when we crossed the border, there was tons of security, razor wire, high fences, men with machine guns. Between countries that get along reasonably well. Yet that's ok. We try to do that here and we're horrible human beings. I'm not against immigration, come, please do. I want you here. One of my husband's good friends is a legal mexican that came here when he was a teen.... LEGALLY. Runs his own business in Idaho now with his brother. *Illegal* immigration even pisses off him. Do tell, where did you see razor wire, high fences and men with machine guns when you visited London from either of these countries...in the middle of the English channel? ? ? I can assure you there also isn't a barbed wire fence or a high wall along the coastline of the UK either. The last time I went across the border from France to Belgium, which incidentally you would have to cross to eventually get to the border with Netherlands unless you went via Germany. I saw no razor wire fences or high walls. Were there security guards there, yes, but they were anti terrorist personnel, nothing to do with illegal immigrants from one country to the other. Most countries in the European Union belong to the Schengen agreement where there is free movement of people so there would be no illegal immigrants from any of these countries to the another. Most European Union and European Free Trade Area nations share open inter-state borders as part of the Schengen Agreement, allowing free flow of people between nations. Controls on entry to the entire Schengen area are carried out at the first country of entry.
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Deleted
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Apr 20, 2024 13:54:00 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Apr 11, 2019 16:07:31 GMT
Immigration is a complex issue that is beyond dimwit donnie’s understanding, which is unfortunate for this country. It is also unfortunate that conflicts in Central American countries have reach the point that its driving thousands of folks to leave their country looking for a better life in the United States.
Other countries are also facing this problem as well as the United States.
We need to separate those coming to this country seeking asylum and those sneaking across the Southern Border and those overstaying their visa.
Those who sneak across the Southern Border or overstay their visas are here illegally. They just are. They have committed a crime.
As someone who lives in the Northern CA wine country, which has a large Hispanic population and a large number are here illegally, I have see the impact, good and bad, they have had on the community for decades. This is something that needs to be addressed.
But here is where it gets complicated. In 1986, we were told they solved the immigration problem and would never have to give illegals amnesty ever again. Problem is, the law was never really enforced, especially the employer mandate part of the bill. So we allowed these folks to stay in this country for decades.
As as much as I want this problem solved with folks illegally coming into this country, I’m against the wholesale kicking these folks out of the country that trump is doing. The reason, it’s on us for allowing these folks to stay in this country, not for days, or months, or even years, but for decades. As such we need to find a way to move them from “illegal” to “legal”.
And to stop others from sneaking across the border, take away one of the main reasons they come here, and that is to earn money. Crack down hard on the employers who knowingly hire illegal immigrants. I suspect if we had done that back in 1986 and continued to do it through today we would not have the mess we have today as to what do with these individuals who entered this country illegally and we allowed to stay.
As far as migrants seeking asylum, as sad as their situation is, we can’t take in everyone that comes knocking at our door. We just can’t.
Which is why this issue is complex. We need to find ways of helping these countries to the point these folks will want to stay in their own country instead feeling they have to flee. This is a problem that is universal.
There was a story about when trump was showing some foreign leader Mt Vernon, he went on about how George Washington didn’t “brand” stuff with his name. That is what trump is all about, branding. That is the main reason he wants the wall on the Southern Border because it would be associated with him. I suspect he would try and have it known as the djt wall.
But if this country is finally going to deal with the immigration problem, then has to be dealing with all of the components and not cherrypick certain ones because it plays well with trump, Stephen Miller, and those against all immigrants in general aka is trump’s base.
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Post by hop2 on Apr 11, 2019 16:56:39 GMT
On the flip side of that are the people I have known who have drug problems, breed and suck off welfare/tax payers, sell drugs, are perfectly healthy and refuse to work. Each and every person (some close relatives, some neighbors and some acquaintances) that I know who are like that are white. Each and every one (no exaggeration). More white people are on welfare and SNAP etc then people of color! Way back there was clip of dt's surprise when someone told him there were white people on welfare... So random un-named ‘officials’ know more about the border than say a Republican congressman who represents a huge portion of the border? Can you provide links to those officials statements? ( other than the fear mongers at Fox? ) I provided at least 4 links from/about Congressman Hurd. From various different sources. O'Rourke lives in El Paso. El Paso has been listed as a safe city. Basically, and this is a very poor summary, is that when the border was loosely monitored, people crossed freely to work and then went back home. Once America started to crack down, the cost of being caught crossing the border jumped substantially, which encouraged workers to stay versus going back home. Credible.. migrant workers came here to the US to pick our crops. The same people came every year to the different farms. They followed the crops all the way across the states. They were not always treated well. The trouble is that the rich white guys in Washington have no clue what things cost, particularly food. Not likely they go to the stores to shop for anything! Even if they did know, it still wouldn't matter because they can afford whatever they wanted. The trouble is that the rich white guys in Washington have no clue what things cost, particularly food. Not likely they go to the stores to shop for anything! Even if they did know, it still wouldn't matter because they can afford whatever they wanted. Yeah but Beto is a democrat - I wouldn’t dream of asking them to listen to or read about a Democrat’s border ideas. Can’t have that ( sarcasm )
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Post by thracian on Apr 11, 2019 19:18:14 GMT
No crisis. Probably a need for better processes, which no one considers because they are too busy trying to make people think there is a border crisis.
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pyccku
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 2,817
Jun 27, 2014 23:12:07 GMT
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Post by pyccku on Apr 11, 2019 19:38:34 GMT
Here's the problem with the US in the past 50 or so years:
We've declared a "war on drugs." We went after the smugglers and dealers, without recognizing that these people wouldn't be in business if there weren't customers. Want to get rid of drug dealers and narco culture? Get rid of the customers. Make it so they don't want to use drugs. Make it so the punishment for using is so harsh that nobody is willing to risk it. Put all customers in jail so there is no market for the dealers to sell to.
Now we're looking at a "war on illegal immigration." We keep going after the immigrants and coyotes, without recognizing that these people wouldn't be coming if there weren't customers for their labor. Want to get rid of illegal immigrants and coyotes? Get rid of the customers. Make it so they don't want to use the labor of undocumented workers. Make it so the punishment for hiring illegal immigrants is so harsh that nobody is willing to risk it. Put all customers in jail so there is no market for the employees to offer their services to.
But no....we look at those who are meeting the demand as the criminals, while those who supply the demand get off. There is money to be made, so those in power will exploit those who supply the labor. Until those who are doing the employing are punished at least as harshly as those who cross the border illegally (or overstay their visa), there is no real disincentive to hire illegal labor.
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Post by Darcy Collins on Apr 11, 2019 19:48:41 GMT
We went to Paris/London/Amsterdam (that one unplanned) this past year. What I found amazing was when we crossed the border, there was tons of security, razor wire, high fences, men with machine guns. Between countries that get along reasonably well. Yet that's ok. We try to do that here and we're horrible human beings. I'm not against immigration, come, please do. I want you here. One of my husband's good friends is a legal mexican that came here when he was a teen.... LEGALLY. Runs his own business in Idaho now with his brother. *Illegal* immigration even pisses off him. Do tell, where did you see razor wire, high fences and men with machine guns when you visited London from either of these countries...in the middle of the English channel? ? ? I can assure you there also isn't a barbed wire fence or a high wall along the coastline of the UK either.The last time I went across the border from France to Belgium, which incidentally you would have to cross to eventually get to the border with Netherlands unless you went via Germany. I saw no razor wire fences or high walls. Were there security guards there, yes, but they were anti terrorist personnel, nothing to do with illegal immigrants from one country to the other. Most countries in the European Union belong to the Schengen agreement where there is free movement of people so there would be no illegal immigrants from any of these countries to the another. Most European Union and European Free Trade Area nations share open inter-state borders as part of the Schengen Agreement, allowing free flow of people between nations. Controls on entry to the entire Schengen area are carried out at the first country of entry. Well to be fair that's because you give France money to build the barbed wire fence on THEIR land and let's also be clear the Schengen agreement has allowed more distant countries like the UK to deny the vast majority of asylum seekers from their shores by forcing them to claim asylum at the first country they land in. You're utterly ignoring the people in Calais who would like to seek asylum in the UK and you're denying them entry and yes absolutely through fences, walls and razor wire. ETA an article with background for those not familiar with Calais: af.reuters.com/article/worldNews/idAFKBN1F30YQ
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Post by Darcy Collins on Apr 11, 2019 20:06:19 GMT
I'll also reiterate for probably the thousandth time Trump's wall is stupid and I have never been in favor of it. But there's also some really wrong information on this thread - and it actually started with the comments about San Diego. San Diego is a wonderful peaceful place now BECAUSE of the work that was done to make a more secure border. President Clinton started that initiative that continued through Bush and Obama's presidency. There were huge issues in San Diego in the 80s because the border wasn't secure. And there are vast stretches of Europe that HAVE put up fencing because of the immigration crisis over the last 5 years -primarily Hungary and Slovenia. Are there areas where a secure border may be needed - yes - do you put up hundred of miles of a wall at the tune of billions no. A few articles regarding both the history of border security in San Diego and fencing going up in Europe: www.10news.com/news/local-news/border-fence-build-up-has-long-history-in-san-diegowww.usatoday.com/story/news/world/2018/05/24/donald-trump-europe-border-walls-migrants/532572002/
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Post by belgravia on Apr 11, 2019 20:24:12 GMT
The last time I encountered security with machine guns it wasn’t at a border crossing. It was in NYC, in front of Trump Tower on 5th Ave. Just a random observation...
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casii
Drama Llama
Posts: 5,458
Jun 29, 2014 14:40:44 GMT
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Post by casii on Apr 11, 2019 21:04:12 GMT
The last time I encountered security with machine guns it wasn’t at a border crossing. It was in NYC, in front of Trump Tower on 5th Ave. Just a random observation... Well that is where the Eye of Sauron resides, so to be expected.
I did see increased security in Paris after the November 2015 attacks, but I've not seen the aforementioned robust machine gun, razor wire reinforced areas anywhere in Europe on my travels.
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Post by lucyg on Apr 11, 2019 21:09:38 GMT
I'll also reiterate for probably the thousandth time Trump's wall is stupid and I have never been in favor of it. But there's also some really wrong information on this thread - and it actually started with the comments about San Diego. San Diego is a wonderful peaceful place now BECAUSE of the work that was done to make a more secure border. President Clinton started that initiative that continued through Bush and Obama's presidency. There were huge issues in San Diego in the 80s because the border wasn't secure. And there are vast stretches of Europe that HAVE put up fencing because of the immigration crisis over the last 5 years -primarily Hungary and Slovenia. Are there areas where a secure border may be needed - yes - do you put up hundred of miles of a wall at the tune of billions no. A few articles regarding both the history of border security in San Diego and fencing going up in Europe: www.10news.com/news/local-news/border-fence-build-up-has-long-history-in-san-diegowww.usatoday.com/story/news/world/2018/05/24/donald-trump-europe-border-walls-migrants/532572002/You are conflating the questions of whether there is currently a crisis at the border (as a whole, per Trump, and the whole side issue of whether Trump is actually creating/worsening the problem with his policies) and whether we should have any border security at all. Maybe there are a few activists who feel we should have no borders at all, but I don’t know any of them. The everyday liberals I am acquainted with or see on TV think we should have smarter immigration policies and smarter security, not angry-Hulk “build the wall!” rhetoric. No one’s saying we don’t want border security in San Diego. We’re saying there is NOT a border crisis currently happening in San Diego, and you said the same darn thing yourself. I don’t doubt there are places with worse problems. Let’s find intelligent solutions, not just gin up Trump’s base by creating problems where they didn’t used to exist. Cutting off aid to Central America? That sounds like a really well-thought-out idea. I’m looking at you, Stephen Miller.
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Deleted
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Apr 20, 2024 13:54:00 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Apr 12, 2019 8:11:33 GMT
Do tell, where did you see razor wire, high fences and men with machine guns when you visited London from either of these countries...in the middle of the English channel? ? ? I can assure you there also isn't a barbed wire fence or a high wall along the coastline of the UK either.The last time I went across the border from France to Belgium, which incidentally you would have to cross to eventually get to the border with Netherlands unless you went via Germany. I saw no razor wire fences or high walls. Were there security guards there, yes, but they were anti terrorist personnel, nothing to do with illegal immigrants from one country to the other. Most countries in the European Union belong to the Schengen agreement where there is free movement of people so there would be no illegal immigrants from any of these countries to the another. Most European Union and European Free Trade Area nations share open inter-state borders as part of the Schengen Agreement, allowing free flow of people between nations. Controls on entry to the entire Schengen area are carried out at the first country of entry. Well to be fair that's because you give France money to build the barbed wire fence on THEIR land and let's also be clear the Schengen agreement has allowed more distant countries like the UK to deny the vast majority of asylum seekers from their shores by forcing them to claim asylum at the first country they land in. You're utterly ignoring the people in Calais who would like to seek asylum in the UK and you're denying them entry and yes absolutely through fences, walls and razor wire. ETA an article with background for those not familiar with Calais: af.reuters.com/article/worldNews/idAFKBN1F30YQAnd as you say, to be fair do you know the main reason why those fences and wire are there to protect the security of the port of Calais? Two asylum seekers yesterday tried to cross the English Channel on two children's Lilos.
They spent more than 10 hours on the Lilos, bearing their bags and paddling with their hands through the night, trying to cross one of the world's busiest shipping lanes before they were picked up off the French coast. The two men, believed to be Lithuanian, were picked up by the crew of a cross-Channel ferry early yesterday. Gail Isted, of P&O Stena Line, said the crew of Provence, the 4.30am ferry from Dover, launched their rescue boat to pick the men up at around 5.30am.
"The crew were forced to slow the ferry down, turn it around and within 15 minutes had launched the rescue boat and got them on board. It's lucky that our crew reacted so quickly," said the P&O spokeswoman.
. Last summer 58 Chinese migrants suffocated in the back of a lorry. The Home Office said that in the first two weeks of this month more than 500 stowaways emerged from shuttle trains at the Eurotunnel yard at Cheriton in Kent.Several have been crushed to death by cross-Channel trains.
In June, six Russian asylum seekers stole an engine-less speed boat in France and rowed across the Channel to Britain. They were picked up by coastguards near the Kent coast.
In April, three east European men clung to the side of a passenger ferry for 20 miles. They had rowed alongside the SeaFrance ferry in an inflatable dinghy, before perching on a ledge, a few feet wide and six feet above the water, for the hour-and-a-half crossingIn March, nine Romanian Gypsies entered Britain by hiding under a Eurostar train on its way to Waterloo. They spent three hours in freezing conditions under a carriage that holds luggage or freight, with only a few inches separating them from live rails. What do you suggest we do, let them continue to risk their lives crossing one of the busiest shipping lanes in the world or electrocute themselves to death hanging on to the underside of a high speed train. Or injuring themselves and possibly killing themselves hanging on to the underside of the hundreds of trucks that cross the channel on ferries daily. Maybe you'd like to do some more research before you comment on the main reason that there is an agreement between France and Britain on how to safely secure the ports on the French side of the Channel to try and avoid these situations happening in the first place.
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AnotherPea
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 2,968
Jan 4, 2015 1:47:52 GMT
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Post by AnotherPea on Apr 12, 2019 11:00:23 GMT
If illegals are such a big problem, why are the people who overstay their visas not being treated the same as those at the border? Why so much emphasis on the Hispanic/Latino people? What do you mean by treated the same?
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purplebee
Drama Llama
Posts: 6,725
Jun 27, 2014 20:37:34 GMT
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Post by purplebee on Apr 12, 2019 11:20:46 GMT
The last time I encountered security with machine guns it wasn’t at a border crossing. It was in NYC, in front of Trump Tower on 5th Ave. Just a random observation... Now that you mention it, I recall the same thing - big concrete blockades and machine gun-wielding security guys. Right on Fifth Avenue!
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Post by Darcy Collins on Apr 12, 2019 13:32:45 GMT
Well to be fair that's because you give France money to build the barbed wire fence on THEIR land and let's also be clear the Schengen agreement has allowed more distant countries like the UK to deny the vast majority of asylum seekers from their shores by forcing them to claim asylum at the first country they land in. You're utterly ignoring the people in Calais who would like to seek asylum in the UK and you're denying them entry and yes absolutely through fences, walls and razor wire. ETA an article with background for those not familiar with Calais: af.reuters.com/article/worldNews/idAFKBN1F30YQAnd as you say, to be fair do you know the main reason why those fences and wire are there to protect the security of the port of Calais? Two asylum seekers yesterday tried to cross the English Channel on two children's Lilos.
They spent more than 10 hours on the Lilos, bearing their bags and paddling with their hands through the night, trying to cross one of the world's busiest shipping lanes before they were picked up off the French coast. The two men, believed to be Lithuanian, were picked up by the crew of a cross-Channel ferry early yesterday. Gail Isted, of P&O Stena Line, said the crew of Provence, the 4.30am ferry from Dover, launched their rescue boat to pick the men up at around 5.30am.
"The crew were forced to slow the ferry down, turn it around and within 15 minutes had launched the rescue boat and got them on board. It's lucky that our crew reacted so quickly," said the P&O spokeswoman.
. Last summer 58 Chinese migrants suffocated in the back of a lorry. The Home Office said that in the first two weeks of this month more than 500 stowaways emerged from shuttle trains at the Eurotunnel yard at Cheriton in Kent.Several have been crushed to death by cross-Channel trains.
In June, six Russian asylum seekers stole an engine-less speed boat in France and rowed across the Channel to Britain. They were picked up by coastguards near the Kent coast.
In April, three east European men clung to the side of a passenger ferry for 20 miles. They had rowed alongside the SeaFrance ferry in an inflatable dinghy, before perching on a ledge, a few feet wide and six feet above the water, for the hour-and-a-half crossingIn March, nine Romanian Gypsies entered Britain by hiding under a Eurostar train on its way to Waterloo. They spent three hours in freezing conditions under a carriage that holds luggage or freight, with only a few inches separating them from live rails. What do you suggest we do, let them continue to risk their lives crossing one of the busiest shipping lanes in the world or electrocute themselves to death hanging on to the underside of a high speed train. Or injuring themselves and possibly killing themselves hanging on to the underside of the hundreds of trucks that cross the channel on ferries daily. Maybe you'd like to do some more research before you comment on the main reason that there is an agreement between France and Britain on how to safely secure the ports on the French side of the Channel to try and avoid these situations happening in the first place. Why in the world would they need to take such extreme measures when there's " where there is free movement of people so there would be no illegal immigrants from any of these countries to the another. Most European Union and European Free Trade Area nations share open inter-state borders as part of the Schengen Agreement, allowing free flow of people between nations".Yes that's your utterly inaccurate quote that conveniently forgets that you DON'T allow those asylum seekers into the UK and are using razor wires, walls etc to keep them out. And FYI - your argument is the exact same one used to argue a wall on the US southern border - as hundred die every year trying to cross illegally. What do you suggest we do, continue to risk their lives? Perhaps you need to do some of your own research.
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Deleted
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Apr 20, 2024 13:54:00 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Apr 12, 2019 15:09:38 GMT
And as you say, to be fair do you know the main reason why those fences and wire are there to protect the security of the port of Calais? Two asylum seekers yesterday tried to cross the English Channel on two children's Lilos.
They spent more than 10 hours on the Lilos, bearing their bags and paddling with their hands through the night, trying to cross one of the world's busiest shipping lanes before they were picked up off the French coast. The two men, believed to be Lithuanian, were picked up by the crew of a cross-Channel ferry early yesterday. Gail Isted, of P&O Stena Line, said the crew of Provence, the 4.30am ferry from Dover, launched their rescue boat to pick the men up at around 5.30am.
"The crew were forced to slow the ferry down, turn it around and within 15 minutes had launched the rescue boat and got them on board. It's lucky that our crew reacted so quickly," said the P&O spokeswoman.
. Last summer 58 Chinese migrants suffocated in the back of a lorry. The Home Office said that in the first two weeks of this month more than 500 stowaways emerged from shuttle trains at the Eurotunnel yard at Cheriton in Kent.Several have been crushed to death by cross-Channel trains.
In June, six Russian asylum seekers stole an engine-less speed boat in France and rowed across the Channel to Britain. They were picked up by coastguards near the Kent coast.
In April, three east European men clung to the side of a passenger ferry for 20 miles. They had rowed alongside the SeaFrance ferry in an inflatable dinghy, before perching on a ledge, a few feet wide and six feet above the water, for the hour-and-a-half crossingIn March, nine Romanian Gypsies entered Britain by hiding under a Eurostar train on its way to Waterloo. They spent three hours in freezing conditions under a carriage that holds luggage or freight, with only a few inches separating them from live rails. What do you suggest we do, let them continue to risk their lives crossing one of the busiest shipping lanes in the world or electrocute themselves to death hanging on to the underside of a high speed train. Or injuring themselves and possibly killing themselves hanging on to the underside of the hundreds of trucks that cross the channel on ferries daily. Maybe you'd like to do some more research before you comment on the main reason that there is an agreement between France and Britain on how to safely secure the ports on the French side of the Channel to try and avoid these situations happening in the first place. Why in the world would they need to take such extreme measures when there's " where there is free movement of people so there would be no illegal immigrants from any of these countries to the another. Most European Union and European Free Trade Area nations share open inter-state borders as part of the Schengen Agreement, allowing free flow of people between nations".Yes that's your utterly inaccurate quote that conveniently forgets that you DON'T allow those asylum seekers into the UK and are using razor wires, walls etc to keep them out. And FYI - your argument is the exact same one used to argue a wall on the US southern border - as hundred die every year trying to cross illegally. What do you suggest we do, continue to risk their lives? Perhaps you need to do some of your own research. It's pretty obvious that you don't understand the Schengen Agreement otherwise you would know that the UK isn't part of it. Your bolded part is futile in trying to prove otherwise. The Schengen agreement applies to EU citizens only and only applies to others AFTER they have registered at their first port of entry between the countries that have signed up to it. Not all EU member countries belong to the SA. And for the record I have made no comment on any of your problems regarding your own borders. You brought in Europe,not me.I haven't conveniently forgot how many asylum seekers we allow in either. I know how many we let in and how many refugees we take in too and we treat them and process their applications according to International Law. Myself,as well as other Americans on this thread who had recently visited Europe and in particular the countries mentioned, asked a simple question to freebird, when she posted........ We went to Paris/London/Amsterdam (that one unplanned) this past year. What I found amazing was when we crossed the border, there was tons of security, razor wire, high fences, men with machine guns. Between countries that get along reasonably well. Yet that's ok......... No one answering that statement could collaborate her experience because there are no razor wires, high fences or men with machine guns between France and the Netherlands and there are non as you enter the UK either or along any other part of its coastline. I tried to explain why they were in Calais but you go ahead and try an justify whatever you are trying to prove by posting inaccurate information.
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