RedSquirrelUK
Drama Llama
Posts: 6,703
Location: The UK's beautiful West Country
Aug 2, 2014 13:03:45 GMT
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Post by RedSquirrelUK on Apr 16, 2019 12:24:55 GMT
Thank you for keeping us updated. I've been following it all breathlessly, but our news coverage is painful. It upsets me hearing devastated people being interviewed and being asked "how does that make you feel?" How do you think? For goodness sake.
And not to get political, but the messages of support from other countries have been lovely, except for Trump's. I'm sure he genuinely believed he was helping, but his message made me angry - implying that the French didn't know how to manage their own beloved building in the best way possible. I thought their response was very gracious. But I wish his team would take his Twitter away from him and let someone responsible, with social skills and a sense of propriety translate his feelings into acceptable words.
I'm sorry. Forgive me. I'm upset too.
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Post by sleepingbooty on Apr 16, 2019 12:55:20 GMT
Thank you for keeping us updated. I've been following it all breathlessly, but our news coverage is painful. It upsets me hearing devastated people being interviewed and being asked "how does that make you feel?" How do you think? For goodness sake. And not to get political, but the messages of support from other countries have been lovely, except for Trump's. I'm sure he genuinely believed he was helping, but his message made me angry - implying that the French didn't know how to manage their own beloved building in the best way possible. I figured the updates would help as most the official info is being released in French. The "sad" interviews don't help understand what's going on or shift the focus on the positive and the future. I'd rather let you all know the facts instead. As for Trump, don't apologise or feel bad: the world is aware of his need to blow his Trumpiest trumpet on Twitter. We roll our eyes and move on, right? C'est la vie (that's life/how life goes), as we say here. *Gallic shrug* Latest updates: Total, the French oil and gas company, is donating 200 million euros. L'Oréal just announced a donation of 200 million euros as well. We can see the firefighters and architects on the outside façade at the moment.
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AmandaA
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 3,501
Aug 28, 2015 22:31:17 GMT
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Post by AmandaA on Apr 16, 2019 13:13:38 GMT
Thank you for all of the updates sleepingbooty. It still is surreal to see and read all of this from the other side of the pond, I cannot imagine how this feels to the French.
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Post by sleepingbooty on Apr 16, 2019 13:57:36 GMT
The Minister of the Interior who was in Mayotte when the fire broke out has landed in Paris and is now at Notre-Dame. He publicly thanked the firefighters and especially the 20 firemen who went up in the towers during the fire when it was getting critical to save the structure (reminder: the big bell was threatening to come down, taking the tower with it in its fall which likely would have caused the other tower to come down as well). It was a matter of 15 to 30 crucial minutes before the catastrophe would've taken place. Yikes.
Some of the pieces that were saved during the night are currently being kept at the hôtel de ville (city hall) of Paris. Some valuable art is being kept in a secret place.
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Deleted
Posts: 0
Mar 28, 2024 15:39:41 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Apr 16, 2019 14:16:03 GMT
I do not understand why an organization worth 170 billion dollars needs donations for anything.
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Post by jennyap on Apr 16, 2019 14:19:41 GMT
I do not understand why an organization worth 170 billion dollars needs donations for anything. It's owned by the state, not the Catholic church
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Post by workingclassdog on Apr 16, 2019 14:26:26 GMT
Oh let's not turn this into negative posts... or political for that matter...
It's amazing though.. watching it yesterday it just seem like there would be nothing left but rubble. And now today there is so much hope in saving it and that the items inside for the most part will be able to be restored.. (hopefully)...
So thrilled to see these companies donate so much... I hope more will come in!!
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Post by sleepingbooty on Apr 16, 2019 14:35:02 GMT
I do not understand why an organization worth 170 billion dollars needs donations for anything. It's owned by the state, not the Catholic church The State owns Notre-Dame. The 1905 French law on the Separation of the Churches and State protects the secular aspect of the State which means the Catholic Church on a local level (archdiocese of Paris), the designated beneficiary, who has the use of the cathedral must pay for the employees, everyday costs while allowing visitors to enter (public access).
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Dalai Mama
Drama Llama
La Pea Boheme
Posts: 6,985
Jun 26, 2014 0:31:31 GMT
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Post by Dalai Mama on Apr 16, 2019 14:39:13 GMT
It's 2AM and I've been up since 6AM. Time to catch some much-needed sleep. Final update of the night: they are now dropping big electric lights from above to scan the damage done to the structure. ETA: Just heard the fire temperature went up to 800°C (1472°F). Confirmation that the stained glass windows are very, very heavily damaged (lead fusion). The organ is quite damaged as well. I read this morning that the Great Organ was spared. It was housed sous une dalle de pierre that ran between the two towers. The orgue de chœur sustained water damage, though.
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Post by workingclassdog on Apr 16, 2019 14:47:08 GMT
I was just sitting here reading the posts.. and I look up and didn't even realize that I bought a calendar in Paris last year (for this year).. and glanced at it and this month's hand drawn picture is Notre-Dame... that just made me so sad... it also has the little carts that sell stuff up and down the road in front of ND in it.. just like where we were standing when we were there..
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Post by sleepingbooty on Apr 16, 2019 14:54:05 GMT
ETA: Just heard the fire temperature went up to 800°C (1472°F). Confirmation that the stained glass windows are very, very heavily damaged (lead fusion). The organ is quite damaged as well. I read this morning that the Great Organ was spared. It was housed sous une dalle de pierre that ran between the two towers. The orgue de chœur sustained water damage, though. Alas, that's not the official news. The Minister of Culture announced earlier today that it looks "assez atteint" (quite damaged). Its exact state is still a big question mark right now and will continue to be so until the specialists can enter the cathedral (not until Friday at least).
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Bridget in MD
Drama Llama
Posts: 5,861
Member is Online
Jun 25, 2014 20:40:00 GMT
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Post by Bridget in MD on Apr 16, 2019 15:01:01 GMT
@zingermack As far as I can tell, yes, the building itself is still (with the heavy "bourdon" bell that would have taken a whole part of the building down in its fall) here BUT the roof, however, was part of its beauty and considered an artwork in itself. It was an intricate, old wood frame referred to as "the forest" because of all the, well, wood symmetry. It was gorgeous and loads of it still original so a beautiful display of 13th century craftsmanship. I am not sure which stained glass has been lost so far. Can't get official confirmations on this. The only official information is that the firefighters are trying to find a way to save them while the lead has/had entered fusion phase. Based on what I actually know (not speculation), I can confirm the rest that's been said in that Tumblr post that was screenshot: the ground floor looks okay right now. The fire hasn't reached it yet and everybody's just crossing their fingers it won't (it's close though, as you can see from the photos posted above). The damage to this floor (which is where the visitors go) will be a mix of the rest of the fire and the water to put out the fire. The dangers now come from: overheated scaffolding still in place if it collapses on top of the fragile top structure, overheated building, sudden rise of wind ( not expected). The roof is gone, the spire is gone. There will be some damage the main floor of course (especially if the final bits of the roof collapse on it but it would be superficial). The stone arch has collapsed in places. Not sure how much of that will be left by the end of the fire + water damage but I suspect some other bits of it will drop. The "Trésor" (treasure room) has not come under threat so everything there is fine. The twelve apostles from the spire were taken down several days ago so are safe and fine, too. To see the "forest" that was lost, please check this page on the Notre-Dame website. Tagging Bridget in MD so you can see what was above the stone arch. Thank you!!!! Wow. So interesting. I had no idea. One of my favorite books is "Pillars of the Earth" by Ken Folliett - this makes me want to go back and reread it, how the constructed the catherals back in medievil times.
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Post by twinks on Apr 16, 2019 15:09:47 GMT
Sleepingbooty, I can't begin to thank you enough for your updates. I come here to read instead of watching the new. I like your "facts and only the facts" approach to this heartbreaking tragedy. I appreciate it.
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luvnlifelady
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 4,421
Jun 26, 2014 2:34:35 GMT
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Post by luvnlifelady on Apr 16, 2019 15:25:35 GMT
Are they still saying it was accidental (hopefully), possibly caused by someone doing repair work? My bf and I both read that there was an attempted truck bombing there recently.
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Dalai Mama
Drama Llama
La Pea Boheme
Posts: 6,985
Jun 26, 2014 0:31:31 GMT
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Post by Dalai Mama on Apr 16, 2019 15:31:13 GMT
I read this morning that the Great Organ was spared. It was housed sous une dalle de pierre that ran between the two towers. The orgue de chœur sustained water damage, though. Alas, that's not the official news. The Minister of Culture announced earlier today that it looks "assez atteint" (quite damaged). Its exact state is still a big question mark right now and will continue to be so until the specialists can enter the cathedral (not until Friday at least). linkETA - The original article I read including the bit about the stone slab(? - I think that's how it translates) quoted Vincent Dubois. I figured he would know.
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Post by sleepingbooty on Apr 16, 2019 16:01:08 GMT
Alas, that's not the official news. The Minister of Culture announced earlier today that it looks "assez atteint" (quite damaged). Its exact state is still a big question mark right now and will continue to be so until the specialists can enter the cathedral (not until Friday at least). linkETA - The original article I read including the bit about the stone slab(? - I think that's how it translates) quoted Vincent Dubois. I figured he would know. Thank you for the link (and good news)! No reliable major French media has decided to confirm it yet (I think they're just waiting for confirmation by the Ministry). Libération quotes the Huffington Post to speculate the organ is likely alright. Here's Laurent Prades on Europe 1 saying it's fine, just covered by soot. Being in charge of the assets inside Notre-Dame and having been allowed in today, he is a reliable source. Phew! I'll definitely update this thread when there is official news regarding the grand orgue. An updated list of the state of everything inside should be made available by the Ministry of Culture tomorrow. twinks You're very welcome. It's a bit of a needle-in-a-haystack thing to figure out what's confirmed, what isn't but fortunately, most major French media are fact checking before posting. workingclassdog Aww, don't let yourself feel too blue about this, ok? It'll get rebuilt, it'll be fine.
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Post by sleepingbooty on Apr 16, 2019 16:06:46 GMT
First proper look inside the cathedral today: According to Frédéric Létoffe, one of the two presidents of the Groupement des Monuments Historiques (organisation reuniting all the companies working on restoration and conservation of the French historical buildings and that are under contract with the State), it will realistically take between 10 and 15 years to have Notre-Dame rebuilt.
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Dalai Mama
Drama Llama
La Pea Boheme
Posts: 6,985
Jun 26, 2014 0:31:31 GMT
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Post by Dalai Mama on Apr 16, 2019 16:13:14 GMT
First proper look inside the cathedral today: According to Frédéric Létoffe, one of the two presidents of the Groupement des Monuments Historiques (organisation reuniting all the companies working on restoration and conservation of the French historical buildings and that are under contract with the State), it will realistically take between 10 and 15 years to have Notre-Dame rebuilt. I mean, you can't really tell anything about structural damage but it looks much better than I imagined. The stain-glass windows are at least in place, if not intact.
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MaryMary
Pearl Clutcher
Lazy
Posts: 2,974
Jun 25, 2014 21:56:13 GMT
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Post by MaryMary on Apr 16, 2019 16:18:38 GMT
I agree, it looks much better than what I imagined. That being said, I’m sure there’s tons of restoration to do.
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Post by sleepingbooty on Apr 16, 2019 16:34:33 GMT
It's been a day of relief as far as I'm concerned: the fire didn't engulf the whole building, a lot of art was/can be saved, the walls are still standing. All of this is a very thick layer of silver lining especially when I remember seeing the mad flames last night... For those of you still scrapbooking/documenting life, there are some very good pictures (higher resolution than hotlinked below) of the fire in this article of Agence France Presse:
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Post by shamrock on Apr 16, 2019 16:36:08 GMT
The news today is so much better than I feared. To me it seems more of a repair, while quite major, than a rebuild. In my mind when I hear rebuild, I think of from the ground up. There is much more of Norte Dame that survived than I thought would as I watched last night. So I am hopeful seeing the picture of the inside shared up a few posts.
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Deleted
Posts: 0
Mar 28, 2024 15:39:41 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Apr 16, 2019 16:38:40 GMT
First proper look inside the cathedral today: According to Frédéric Létoffe, one of the two presidents of the Groupement des Monuments Historiques (organisation reuniting all the companies working on restoration and conservation of the French historical buildings and that are under contract with the State), it will realistically take between 10 and 15 years to have Notre-Dame rebuilt. Yes, it will take time but they will do it just as they did with York Minster when that went on fire in 1984 after being struck by lighting. One of the people that worked on that restoration was on the radio earlier today talking about it. Experts at York said restoring Notre-Dame was "quite achievable". John David, a master mason at York Minster, said Notre-Dame could be rebuilt using traditional crafts. Mr David, who was working at the Minster in 1984 and dealt with the reconstruction after that fire, said work to repair the building may take time, but it would be done properly. He said the two churches faced the same dilemma on reconstruction.Mr David said: "At York Minster there were questions about whether we put an oak roof back on top or a steel roof or even a concrete roof. "Some people think we can't do this sort of thing any more in traditional materials - we can, and so I think the roof will be reconstructed and put back on."I don't think it will take 10 years - it might take two years to decide what to do, but it's quite achievable."LINK We're fortunate ( if that is the right word under the circumstances) that we have so many historic buildings in Europe that are constantly being restored and maintained somewhere or other that the experts are already here.
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flute4peace
Drama Llama
Posts: 6,757
Jul 3, 2014 14:38:35 GMT
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Post by flute4peace on Apr 16, 2019 16:39:27 GMT
First proper look inside the cathedral today: According to Frédéric Létoffe, one of the two presidents of the Groupement des Monuments Historiques (organisation reuniting all the companies working on restoration and conservation of the French historical buildings and that are under contract with the State), it will realistically take between 10 and 15 years to have Notre-Dame rebuilt. This absolutely blows my mind. Just the scope of this structure is so magnificently huge. I've been on scenes of fires and when they look like this one did from the outside, there's nothing left. I'm pleasantly shocked to see how much survived. That said, I'm sure there is extensive smoke and water damage, especially to the artworks and organ. Thank you again for sharing your unique insight and information. I feel like I have an "inside scoop". Prayers for you and yours.
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Post by sleepingbooty on Apr 16, 2019 16:41:22 GMT
Are they still saying it was accidental (hopefully), possibly caused by someone doing repair work? My bf and I both read that there was an attempted truck bombing there recently. Yes. The extreme right has tried to make it sound like it might be of terrorist origin but they've been shut down very quickly by all those involved in the case. The police, government officials and Notre-Dame officials are all saying it's very likely accidental. The parquet (prosecutor) of Paris launched a criminal investigation for unintentional destruction through fire.
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Post by workingclassdog on Apr 16, 2019 16:50:20 GMT
Although so horrible... those pictures don't look like the same place as the pictures last night. I would have never thought it would look so 'good'.. Dalai Mama said it better though..
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Post by sleepingbooty on Apr 16, 2019 16:58:50 GMT
To me it seems more of a repair, while quite major, than a rebuild. It is a rebuild because the roof wasn't just there to serve as a lid function but integral part of holding up the entire structure. The pressure distribution relied in part on the intricate wood framework as well as on the damaged groin vault ceiling. Without these, the walls will come tumbling down eventually. The heat also affected the stone heavily, making it likely fragile and friable. Quite a bit of those walls still standing will need replacing. In case anyone wants to know the basics of how gothic cathedrals are held up:
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RedSquirrelUK
Drama Llama
Posts: 6,703
Location: The UK's beautiful West Country
Aug 2, 2014 13:03:45 GMT
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Post by RedSquirrelUK on Apr 16, 2019 17:08:26 GMT
I really thought it would be far worse inside, although that looks bad enough. Thank goodness. And I'm loving the French positivity in the face of disaster.
I've been worrying about the organ(s) as well. The news there has been a roller-coaster - they're OK, they're not, one's OK and the other isn't, it's not as bad as they thought. I caught the very end of an interview with the Notre Dame organist, saying he couldn't look. I can't imagine how he must feel. I missed the rest of the interview but the tears in his eyes said it all.
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Post by sleepingbooty on Apr 16, 2019 18:11:32 GMT
Président Macron has just spoken to the country. He plans on having Notre-Dame rebuilt in five years' time, just in time for the Olympic Games Paris will be hosting in 2024.
ETA: The rooster on top of the spire may have been found provided it's not a fake someone decided to throw in there for funsies (look, I'm being careful here). The rooster has been handed over to the Chief Architect. No word yet on whether it's the authentic one and if so, whether it still contains the relics. The telenovela of Notre-Dame continues!
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Dalai Mama
Drama Llama
La Pea Boheme
Posts: 6,985
Jun 26, 2014 0:31:31 GMT
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Post by Dalai Mama on Apr 16, 2019 18:11:45 GMT
Given how important the vaulted ceiling over the transept is (It looks like it's completely gone), it's amazing that the ceiling of the nave hasn't collapsed.
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Post by workingclassdog on Apr 16, 2019 18:16:14 GMT
Président Macron has just spoken to the country. He plans on having Notre-Dame rebuilt in five years' time, just in time for the Olympic Games Paris will be hosting in 2024. WOW... now I call that amazing... I wonder if that is what he wants to be done.. Will that really be possible from the expert's point of view? That would be wonderful to have it opened that fast. Now I am thinking I feel sorry for all those who are members of the church.. they are all going to have to find another church for a few years.
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