Just T
Drama Llama
Posts: 5,530
Jun 26, 2014 1:20:09 GMT
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Post by Just T on Apr 19, 2019 14:16:39 GMT
I'm not a supporter but I'll answer based on my facebook feed: How do Trump supporters feel? MAGA2020If you are a supporter, have you read the redacted report? Can't say if they read it. Are you willing to accept his unethical behavior? YESDo you still want him as your president? YESWill you vote for him again? HELL YES WTH. How this country can impeach a president for lying about being fellated by an intern, yet legitimize and support another for a brazen scheme of repeatedly thwarting a federal investigation and welcoming and encouraging foreign intrusion into our election, is already beyond my level of understanding. I suppose the best method for future presidents intent on committing crimes is simply to install your own fixer in the DOJ. It's beyond my level of understanding, too. I don't get it. And this unwavering support for Trump comes from people I know who for years called those who supported Obama brainwashed, like a cult, etc. And said on a regular basis that he was trying to install himself as King after declaring Marshall Law so he would never have to leave office. Oh, and I can't leave out my relatives who were convinced from the day Obama was elected that he was the Anti-Christ. And pointed out things in the bible that "proved" this.
Once again, scratching my head in disbelief and feeling like we are living in the Twilight Zone.
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pyccku
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 2,817
Jun 27, 2014 23:12:07 GMT
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Post by pyccku on Apr 19, 2019 14:30:45 GMT
They support him because:
He's white. He's "like them." He doesn't feel the need to be "politically correct" - which means he can say the things they are thinking, but they've been too afraid to say because in most places it means that they are being rude and they will be called out for it. He's not a woman. He's "a good Christian," just like them. He won't take away their guns (or so they assume). He will get rid of abortion (because he really doesn't care about the issue, but he'll do it just to get the cheers from his base).
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Post by LavenderLayoutLady on Apr 19, 2019 14:39:13 GMT
They support him because: He's white. He's "like them." He doesn't feel the need to be "politically correct" - which means he can say the things they are thinking, but they've been too afraid to say because in most places it means that they are being rude and they will be called out for it. He's not a woman. He's "a good Christian," just like them. He won't take away their guns (or so they assume). He will get rid of abortion (because he really doesn't care about the issue, but he'll do it just to get the cheers from his base). I fear you are right.
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casii
Drama Llama
Posts: 5,458
Jun 29, 2014 14:40:44 GMT
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Post by casii on Apr 19, 2019 14:44:52 GMT
They support him because: He's white. He's "like them." He doesn't feel the need to be "politically correct" - which means he can say the things they are thinking, but they've been too afraid to say because in most places it means that they are being rude and they will be called out for it. He's not a woman. He's "a good Christian," just like them. He won't take away their guns (or so they assume). He will get rid of abortion (because he really doesn't care about the issue, but he'll do it just to get the cheers from his base). The dude is most definitely not Christian. Anyone who declares it's between him and God, the man bears rotten fruit. He is rotten fruit. He will have a millstone put over his neck and will be cast into the sea for his harm to children. He spits on the poor, widows, elderly and children. I could go on.
And based upon his previous track record, he's probably kept an abortion clinic in business singled handedly. If it's outlawed in the US, he has the means to easily send his 'mistakes' out of the country.
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Post by sunshine on Apr 19, 2019 14:49:36 GMT
Does the majority think the democrats should go ahead and move to impeach now that the report has come out?
What will people think if they don't?
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katybee
Drama Llama
Posts: 5,377
Jun 25, 2014 23:25:39 GMT
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Post by katybee on Apr 19, 2019 14:52:47 GMT
They support him because: He's white. He's "like them." He doesn't feel the need to be "politically correct" - which means he can say the things they are thinking, but they've been too afraid to say because in most places it means that they are being rude and they will be called out for it. He's not a woman. He's "a good Christian," just like them. He won't take away their guns (or so they assume). He will get rid of abortion (because he really doesn't care about the issue, but he'll do it just to get the cheers from his base). The dude is most definitely not Christian. Anyone who declares it's between him and God, the man bears rotten fruit. He is rotten fruit. He will have a millstone put over his neck and will be cast into the sea for his harm to children. He spits on the poor, widows, elderly and children. I could go on. Neither are most of the people who follow him.
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stittsygirl
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 3,577
Location: In the leaves and rain.
Jun 25, 2014 19:57:33 GMT
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Post by stittsygirl on Apr 19, 2019 14:54:06 GMT
WTH. How this country can impeach a president for lying about being fellated by an intern, yet legitimize and support another for a brazen scheme of repeatedly thwarting a federal investigation and welcoming and encouraging foreign intrusion into our election, is already beyond my level of understanding. I suppose the best method for future presidents intent on committing crimes is simply to install your own fixer in the DOJ. It's beyond my level of understanding, too. I don't get it. And this unwavering support for Trump comes from people I know who for years called those who supported Obama brainwashed, like a cult, etc. And said on a regular basis that he was trying to install himself as King after declaring Marshall Law so he would never have to leave office. Oh, and I can't leave out my relatives who were convinced from the day Obama was elected that he was the Anti-Christ. And pointed out things in the bible that "proved" this.
Once again, scratching my head in disbelief and feeling like we are living in the Twilight Zone.
We must be related to the same people. This is much of what I heard from my own family during the Obama years. The ignorance and hypocrisy is fucking maddening, and I don’t even want to claim a relation to them anymore.
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Post by gar on Apr 19, 2019 15:04:41 GMT
I may have missed this already being said but a subpoena has been issued for the full release of the full report. BBC
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Post by papercrafteradvocate on Apr 19, 2019 15:08:48 GMT
Does the majority think the democrats should go ahead and move to impeach now that the report has come out?
What will people think if they don't? I think he SHOULD be impeached, but waver back and forth if it will actually happen. Republicans seem intent on keeping him.
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Deleted
Posts: 0
Apr 19, 2024 16:07:38 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Apr 19, 2019 15:23:23 GMT
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lizacreates
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 3,856
Aug 29, 2015 2:39:19 GMT
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Post by lizacreates on Apr 19, 2019 15:42:35 GMT
Does the majority think the democrats should go ahead and move to impeach now that the report has come out?
What will people think if they don't? I think he SHOULD be impeached, but waver back and forth if it will actually happen. Republicans seem intent on keeping him. I am in full-throated agreement that he should be impeached, but Dems in the House are being very careful and cautious in the way they’re handling this which, in my opinion, is prudent. A big part of me says we have to do this for the health of the republic, but at the same time I’m also aware that impeachment can exact a heavy price on the House majority (similar to what happened when Repubs impeached Clinton). At this point, I am putting all my confidence in Pelosi and Nadler, and I will back whatever they believe is the right thing to do.
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Post by revirdsuba99 on Apr 19, 2019 15:49:45 GMT
I do believe Russia wanted that meeting at trump tower to feel out the trumps, but walked away because they felt they were too dumb to pull off what Russia wanted. Instead they stuck to their original plan without trump & company. I also believe if the Russians had made some offer, trump and company would have accepted it if it meant they would “win”! $$$ or the Moscow hotel....
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katybee
Drama Llama
Posts: 5,377
Jun 25, 2014 23:25:39 GMT
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Post by katybee on Apr 19, 2019 15:54:09 GMT
Look— how do you interpret this report depends solely on whether you are a Democrat or a republican.
Democrats read that it DOES prove collusion. It lists specific instances of communication between Russians and people working on the campaign. It does NOT prove conspiracy—which is the crime and a much higher standard to prove. Republicans take that as NO COLLUSION, period. It’s what Trump is saying, it’s what the conservative media is saying and so, of course, Republicans are going to believe it.
Democrats read that it DOES prove obstruction. There are 10 very well documented incidents of the president TRYING to obstruct justice. Thankfully, there were people around him that refused to follow his orders, so he was never very successful. But, it’s still a crime. Mueller was following the DOJ policy to not indict a sitting president and just presented the evidence for congress to act on. Republicans take that as NO OBSTRUCTION, period. It’s what Trump is saying, it’s what the conservative media is saying, so, of course, Republicans are going to believe it.
This report changed very few minds. I’ve been listening to conservative media and interviews with republican voters all morning long. And Trump is still their guy. This whole report was a political witch-hunt and it EXONERATED the president.
So what do we, as democrats, do now? WE LET IT GO. We have a year and a half until the 2020 election. Let’s look to the future. Let’s focus on what WE WILL DO DIFFERENTLY. Actual policy and ideas. Let Trump dig his own grave. He’s not going to change. He’s going to keep being a monumental prick. We don’t need to remind people of that. If I thought we could change minds, I would be all for impeachment. But we will NEVER change their minds. It will just bolster his support and drive them to the polls in even bigger numbers. It will give the conservative media more fodder and will make democrats look bitter.
Let’s just let it go...
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Post by revirdsuba99 on Apr 19, 2019 15:55:04 GMT
They support him because: He's white. He's "like them." He doesn't feel the need to be "politically correct" - which means he can say the things they are thinking, but they've been too afraid to say because in most places it means that they are being rude and they will be called out for it. He's not a woman. He's "a good Christian," just like them. He won't take away their guns (or so they assume). He will get rid of abortion (because he really doesn't care about the issue, but he'll do it just to get the cheers from his base). You forgot: He's trying to keep the brown people from the south out and those from sh*thole countries. He's trying to keep the Muslims out.
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Deleted
Posts: 0
Apr 19, 2024 16:07:38 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Apr 19, 2019 15:58:16 GMT
Hello SDNY and NYAG!
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Deleted
Posts: 0
Apr 19, 2024 16:07:38 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Apr 19, 2019 16:01:59 GMT
Look— how do you interpret this report depends solely on whether you are a Democrat or a republican. Democrats read that it DOES prove collusion. It lists specific instances of communication between Russians and people working on the campaign. It does NOT prove conspiracy—which is the crime and a much higher standard to prove. Republicans take that as NO COLLUSION, period. It’s what Trump is saying, it’s what the conservative media is saying and so, of course, Republicans are going to believe it. Democrats read that it DOES prove obstruction. There are 10 very well documented incidents of the president TRYING to obstruct justice. Thankfully, there were people around him that refused to follow his orders, so he was never very successful. But, it’s still a crime. Mueller was following the DOJ policy to not indict a sitting president and just presented the evidence for congress to act on. Republicans take that as NO OBSTRUCTION, period. It’s what Trump is saying, it’s what the conservative media is saying, so, of course, Republicans are going to believe it. This report changed very few minds. I’ve been listening to conservative media and interviews with republican voters all morning long. And Trump is still their guy. This whole report was a political witch-hunt and it EXONERATED the president. So what do we, as democrats, do now? WE LET IT GO. We have a year and a half until the 2020 election. Let’s look to the future. Let’s focus on what WE WILL DO DIFFERENTLY. Actual policy and ideas. Let Trump dig his own grave. He’s not going to change. He’s going to keep being a monumental prick. We don’t need to remind people of that. If I thought we could change minds, I would be all for impeachment. But we will NEVER change their minds. It will just bolster his support and drive them to the polls in even bigger numbers. It will give the conservative media more fodder and will make democrats look bitter. Let’s just let it go... Nope. Nopee. Nope. We work the process to register our AMERICAN (or at least DEMOCRATIC) IDEAL that NO ONE IS ABOVE THE LAW and that cavorting with Foreign Adversaries and SUBORNING PERJURY among other obstruction acts ARE UNACCEPTABLE IN AMERICA. Let it go, my eye.
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pyccku
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 2,817
Jun 27, 2014 23:12:07 GMT
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Post by pyccku on Apr 19, 2019 16:15:28 GMT
Let it go?
Like the way it was let go when Nixon did it? Or maybe the way Reagan and the Iran-Contra scandal was let go?
It's weird to me how Clinton got impeached for a BJ - obviously the Republicans felt it was too important to let go, even though it was a matter that affected none of us.
The reason we keep seeing these scandals is because the perpetrators are never punished. We keep seeing one party doing the same thing, over and over. And each time, we are told to let it go "for the good of the country." At what point do we realize that the good of the country means that we have laws to be followed, and those who don't follow them are punished?
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katybee
Drama Llama
Posts: 5,377
Jun 25, 2014 23:25:39 GMT
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Post by katybee on Apr 19, 2019 16:18:21 GMT
Look— how do you interpret this report depends solely on whether you are a Democrat or a republican. Democrats read that it DOES prove collusion. It lists specific instances of communication between Russians and people working on the campaign. It does NOT prove conspiracy—which is the crime and a much higher standard to prove. Republicans take that as NO COLLUSION, period. It’s what Trump is saying, it’s what the conservative media is saying and so, of course, Republicans are going to believe it. Democrats read that it DOES prove obstruction. There are 10 very well documented incidents of the president TRYING to obstruct justice. Thankfully, there were people around him that refused to follow his orders, so he was never very successful. But, it’s still a crime. Mueller was following the DOJ policy to not indict a sitting president and just presented the evidence for congress to act on. Republicans take that as NO OBSTRUCTION, period. It’s what Trump is saying, it’s what the conservative media is saying, so, of course, Republicans are going to believe it. This report changed very few minds. I’ve been listening to conservative media and interviews with republican voters all morning long. And Trump is still their guy. This whole report was a political witch-hunt and it EXONERATED the president. So what do we, as democrats, do now? WE LET IT GO. We have a year and a half until the 2020 election. Let’s look to the future. Let’s focus on what WE WILL DO DIFFERENTLY. Actual policy and ideas. Let Trump dig his own grave. He’s not going to change. He’s going to keep being a monumental prick. We don’t need to remind people of that. If I thought we could change minds, I would be all for impeachment. But we will NEVER change their minds. It will just bolster his support and drive them to the polls in even bigger numbers. It will give the conservative media more fodder and will make democrats look bitter. Let’s just let it go... Nope. Nopee. Nope. We work the process to register our AMERICAN (or at least DEMOCRATIC) IDEAL that NO ONE IS ABOVE THE LAW and that cavorting with Foreign Adversaries and SUBORNING PERJURY among other obstruction acts ARE UNACCEPTABLE IN AMERICA. Let it go, my eye. I say we wait until he’s out of office and go after him HARD for money laundering and tax evasion. All those things we KNOW he’s done/is doing. I also say we put our energies into modernizing/securing our election process and making sure nothing like this will ever happen again. Because you know that there are foreign agents and shady people right here in the US already working on the 2020 election. And, Republicans LOST seats after Clinton’s impeachment.
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katybee
Drama Llama
Posts: 5,377
Jun 25, 2014 23:25:39 GMT
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Post by katybee on Apr 19, 2019 16:24:44 GMT
Let it go? Like the way it was let go when Nixon did it? Or maybe the way Reagan and the Iran-Contra scandal was let go? It's weird to me how Clinton got impeached for a BJ - obviously the Republicans felt it was too important to let go, even though it was a matter that affected none of us. The reason we keep seeing these scandals is because the perpetrators are never punished. We keep seeing one party doing the same thing, over and over. And each time, we are told to let it go "for the good of the country." At what point do we realize that the good of the country means that we have laws to be followed, and those who don't follow them are punished? I don’t want to let it go for the “good of the country”. If I thought it would make a difference, I would be ALL for it. But it won’t! It will take time, energy and focus away from the 2020 election. The current senate will NEVER remove him from office. It won’t even be over before the 2020 election, and Republicans will use it as a very solid argument to elect MORE republicans to Congress. It will kill the chances of any democrats running for senate in a red district that could be swung blue. It will get Trump elected for 4 more years. THAT is my worst nightmare.
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pyccku
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 2,817
Jun 27, 2014 23:12:07 GMT
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Post by pyccku on Apr 19, 2019 17:00:50 GMT
I don’t want to let it go for the “good of the country”. If I thought it would make a difference, I would be ALL for it. But it won’t! It will take time, energy and focus away from the 2020 election. The current senate will NEVER remove him from office. It won’t even be over before the 2020 election, and Republicans will use it as a very solid argument to elect MORE republicans to Congress. It will kill the chances of any democrats running for senate in a red district that could be swung blue. It will get Trump elected for 4 more years. THAT is my worst nightmare. And this, right here, is the biggest issue. DH and I were talking about it this morning. We've seen Republican congressmen and women turn a blind eye to Trump's abhorrent behavior and disregard for the norms and laws governing the office of the president. They are willing to do so because politically, he allows them to do whatever they want - stack the judiciary, cheat in elections, etc. They are willing to overlook anything, just to get ahead politically. They are choosing to avoid their duty to do what's right in the interest of retaining power. And now the Democrats are faced with the decision of doing what's right (Mueller makes it clear in his report that he expects Congress to consider the issues), even if it may cost them seats in the future - or overlooking the wrong-doing in order to save seats. So in both cases, we have our 'leaders' shirking their duty to do what the laws of the country demand in order to save themselves politically.
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pyccku
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 2,817
Jun 27, 2014 23:12:07 GMT
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Post by pyccku on Apr 19, 2019 17:01:49 GMT
Look— how do you interpret this report depends solely on whether you are a Democrat or a republican. Democrats read that it DOES prove collusion. It lists specific instances of communication between Russians and people working on the campaign. It does NOT prove conspiracy—which is the crime and a much higher standard to prove. Republicans take that as NO COLLUSION, period. It’s what Trump is saying, it’s what the conservative media is saying and so, of course, Republicans are going to believe it. Democrats read that it DOES prove obstruction. There are 10 very well documented incidents of the president TRYING to obstruct justice. Thankfully, there were people around him that refused to follow his orders, so he was never very successful. But, it’s still a crime. Mueller was following the DOJ policy to not indict a sitting president and just presented the evidence for congress to act on. Republicans take that as NO OBSTRUCTION, period. It’s what Trump is saying, it’s what the conservative media is saying, so, of course, Republicans are going to believe it. I'd be quite interested to know how Republican Robert Mueller feels about the report.
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Post by pierkiss on Apr 19, 2019 17:05:17 GMT
Why is the world freaking about about Sarah Sanders lying? Why are we suddenly holding this against her (moreso than before)? The freaking President lies all the fucking time and gets pass after pass after pass. But yet she is being blasted for lying now? Why?
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katybee
Drama Llama
Posts: 5,377
Jun 25, 2014 23:25:39 GMT
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Post by katybee on Apr 19, 2019 17:06:20 GMT
I don’t want to let it go for the “good of the country”. If I thought it would make a difference, I would be ALL for it. But it won’t! It will take time, energy and focus away from the 2020 election. The current senate will NEVER remove him from office. It won’t even be over before the 2020 election, and Republicans will use it as a very solid argument to elect MORE republicans to Congress. It will kill the chances of any democrats running for senate in a red district that could be swung blue. It will get Trump elected for 4 more years. THAT is my worst nightmare. And this, right here, is the biggest issue. DH and I were talking about it this morning. We've seen Republican congressmen and women turn a blind eye to Trump's abhorrent behavior and disregard for the norms and laws governing the office of the president. They are willing to do so because politically, he allows them to do whatever they want - stack the judiciary, cheat in elections, etc. They are willing to overlook anything, just to get ahead politically. They are choosing to avoid their duty to do what's right in the interest of retaining power. And now the Democrats are faced with the decision of doing what's right (Mueller makes it clear in his report that he expects Congress to consider the issues), even if it may cost them seats in the future - or overlooking the wrong-doing in order to save seats. So in both cases, we have our 'leaders' shirking their duty to do what the laws of the country demand in order to save themselves politically. I get that. I do. But we NEED to save democratic seats. As long as Republicans are in control, this will happen OVER and OVER. We need to do whatever it takes to get control of BOTH the senate and the house. It’s not going to mean a whole lot to me if Mike Pence is president and Republicans control Congress. That’s just as bad as Trump.
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Deleted
Posts: 0
Apr 19, 2024 16:07:38 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Apr 19, 2019 17:16:11 GMT
I'm not a supporter but I'll answer based on my facebook feed: How do Trump supporters feel? MAGA2020If you are a supporter, have you read the redacted report? Can't say if they read it. Are you willing to accept his unethical behavior? YESDo you still want him as your president? YESWill you vote for him again? HELL YES WTH. How this country can impeach a president for lying about being fellated by an intern, yet legitimize and support another for a brazen scheme of repeatedly thwarting a federal investigation and welcoming and encouraging foreign intrusion into our election, is already beyond my level of understanding. I suppose the best method for future presidents intent on committing crimes is simply to install your own fixer in the DOJ. The problem is that you all don't really want to hear the answer. You will dismiss anything that doesn't back up your version of how it is. You will dismiss the answer or the person answering you. Or both. Whichever works for you.
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Deleted
Posts: 0
Apr 19, 2024 16:07:38 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Apr 19, 2019 17:20:09 GMT
I found this line in the report rather interesting!
The term tro ll
refers to internet users-in this context, paid operatives-who post inflammatory or otherwise disruptive content on social media or other websites.
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lizacreates
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 3,856
Aug 29, 2015 2:39:19 GMT
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Post by lizacreates on Apr 19, 2019 17:23:15 GMT
God, this is tough. Zingermack is right, pyccku is right, katybee is right. You all have great arguments. Mueller is being asked by the House to testify. There might be a clearer path forward once this happens (I hope).
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Post by iamkristinl16 on Apr 19, 2019 17:24:45 GMT
I heard a brief interview with some Republicans/trump supporters this morning as well and am disheartened, but not surprised given the attitudes and unwillingness to look at facts--and just plain ignorance and stupidity--over the last three years. However, I don't think that we should let that small (but larger than it should be) group of people run the country and make the decisions of whether or not we should do what is right.
I think that Mueller should testify, and so should Trump. And we go from there.
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Deleted
Posts: 0
Apr 19, 2024 16:07:38 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Apr 19, 2019 17:55:20 GMT
linkThis morning I was listening to Rachel and she brought up Mjeller and his team concluded when it came to a Obstruction of Justice. The Mueller Team’s hands were tied by the DOJ letter about why a sitting president can’t be indicted. Their whole conclusion is based on the idea a sitting president can’t be indicted. In the end they concluded they couldn’t charge trump and were very clear in stating they couldn’t exonerate him either and if they could, they would. Translation to me: there is a case to be made that trump did obstruct justice and it’s up to Congress to make that case and decide if it’s an impeachable offense. The attached link is LawFare analysis of “What Mueller Found on Russia and on Obstruction: A First Analysis”
From the article... “ More interesting is the report’s constitutional analysis: Pursuant to a separation of powers analysis and contra the president’s lawyers and Barr’s own memo on the subject, Mueller takes the view that presidential actions taken under Article II authority can constitute obstructions of justice.””The argument is complex, but it is notable that Mueller emphasizes the role of the president’s obligations under the Take Care Clause as effectively harmonizing the corrupt intent requirement under the obstruction statutes with Article II: “the concept of ‘faithful execution’ connotes the use of power in the interest of the public, not in the office holder’s personal interest.” This suggests that “corrupt” activities are incompatible with good-faith adherence to the duties of the presidency such that prohibiting them cannot violate Article II. One interesting, if subtle, implication here is that a violation of the obstruction statute by the president thus necessarily violates the Take Care Clause—which links criminality under the statute to impeachability.”Or you can read the end of the Mueller’s report on the obstruction part and see for yourselves.
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Post by revirdsuba99 on Apr 19, 2019 18:17:36 GMT
The reason we keep seeing these scandals is because the perpetrators are never punished. We keep seeing one party doing the same thing, over and over. And each time, we are told to let it go "for the good of the country." At what point do we realize that the good of the country means that we have laws to be followed, and those who don't follow them are punished? He will be punished, just not necessarily impeachment. Unless they find absolute undisputed obstruction beyond Mueller report it is too close to 2020 election, which would totally backfire on the Dems.... His base is behind him 110%, they are happy with him, they agree with him. He allows them to do what he does and they all get away with it.
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Deleted
Posts: 0
Apr 19, 2024 16:07:38 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Apr 19, 2019 18:18:30 GMT
I found this line in the report rather interesting! The term tro ll refers to internet users-i n this context, paid operatives-who post inflammatory or otherwise disruptive content on social media or other websites. You think disagreement is trolling, you need to get out of your bubble.
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