Deleted
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Apr 25, 2024 15:12:42 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Aug 22, 2019 14:41:26 GMT
dewryce -Exactly. There should be rules around owning unneutered pit bulls (especially multiples!), high-magazine high-shooting-speed arms and any "weapon" that can be used to kill indiscriminately and be monitored poorly by emotionally immature people.
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Gennifer
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 4,988
Jun 26, 2014 8:22:26 GMT
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Post by Gennifer on Aug 22, 2019 17:19:52 GMT
Iâm a huge proponent for gun control, but, to be fair, a gun is an inanimate object. Iâm not sure you can really compare that to an animal.
I own a very large male dog. Heâs so unlikely to bite, itâs almost laughable... heâs a St. Bernard. But, I also know that if he ever did bite, he could do some serious damage; way more than my momâs ShihTzu, which bit all the damn time.
Thereâs a reason I chose this breed, and itâs because of the breed traits: Saints are low-energy, very calm and docile, and frankly, not very smart. Heâs never going to be a running partner for me. Heâs never going to be an agility champion. Heâs what he is, which is a big âol lump on my floor that I trip over because heâs always laying under me.
So, if you choose a breed that has more protective/aggressive traits, you canât be surprised when the dog exhibits them. You can be happy if your dog doesnât (because, like kids, everyoneâs pet is perfect and well-behaved) but it doesnât mean your dog never will, just that it hasnât yet.
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scorpeao
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 4,521
Location: NorCal USA
Jun 25, 2014 21:04:54 GMT
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Post by scorpeao on Aug 22, 2019 18:28:50 GMT
I think part of the issue is that dogs have pack mentality. When you have multiple dogs, large or small, this can become an issue. I had a friend who had two small dogs and a cat. One day she came home to find that the dogs had killed the cat. Dogs that grew up with the cat. When you have pack mentality and a aggressive breed dog it makes for a dangerous combination.
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sassyangel
Drama Llama
Posts: 7,456
Jun 26, 2014 23:58:32 GMT
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Post by sassyangel on Aug 22, 2019 20:23:16 GMT
This is So beyond sad. I agree the owner should be harshly prosecuted. My idiot cousin had two pit bulls who attacked a poor neighbor in their apartment hallway. He was upset the dogs had to be euthanized. A dear elderly friend was making a visit and was mauled and required hundreds of stitches on her face, neck and chest. She had been there before and the owners were shocked their dogs did that. Statistics donât lie. Love your sweet pets people. Keep them and people, especially kids, safe. But please, please, please, neuter all of the breeds related to the heinous history of dog fighting. Iâm ok with dogs that have bitten being euthanized. I think the trust has gone, and theyâve crossed a line. I wonât say it doesnât sadden me it has to happen, it does because a lot of these tragedies are unnecessary and mostly avoidable with responsible owners. But I accept and agree with it as a result of them doing something like this. My anger is directed very much at the owners, who should be held accountable. If more owners are, perhaps people will realize that pets are not only a huge responsibility, but not taking that responsibility seriously makes them a potential liability, before owning them. Neutering and spaying of all cats and dogs should be mandatory, unless youâre a licensed breeder. But thatâs my take. Iâve always spayed my pets.
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muggins
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 2,861
Jul 30, 2017 3:38:57 GMT
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Post by muggins on Aug 22, 2019 20:29:27 GMT
dewryce - I was going to comment exactly the same thing. In fact I think pit bulls are the AK-47 of dog breeds. Theyâre not threatening until theyâre placed in the hands of an irresponsible human. Then they become deadly. The owner of the three pit bulls has been rightly charged with murder. Letâs hope heâs convicted and locked up. Perhaps it will serve as a reminder to other irresponsible dog owners.
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Post by FuzzyMutt on Aug 22, 2019 20:59:13 GMT
I was just doing some research and saw one article that said that in 2017 74% of fatal dog attacks were by pit bulls. I would be interested in knowing more about the training of these dogs, and if training actually works. The pit bulls I have been in contact with were not pleasant at all, whether they had been trained or not. There also seems to be mixed info about whether or not neutering increases or decreases aggression. Doesnât surprise me, the shelters in this country are full of pit bull mixes and chihuahua mixes. Donât underestimate the damage even chihuahuas teeth with even a third of the bite force of a larger dog can do to fragile child and elderly skin. Even if neutering didnât work effectively enough for aggression, it would most certainly work for population control, and the shelters wouldnât be full of them. Thatâs more than half the problem, right there. And yes, training does work. It requires time (a lot of it) consistency and tailoring it to the individual dog. Like I said, I would not even remotely describe a pack of dogs allowed to run all over arriving visitors or one that had to be put in a kennel when they arrived due to acting out, as effectively trained. Unfortunately, there is nothing to stop people who really shouldnât have dogs from owning them, and allowing their irresponsible behavior to perpetuate. And it results in tragedies like that precious innocent little girl. I've only known a handful of pit bulls closely in person. 3 of them are/were well adjusted, loving family pets. Of those. 2 were "rescues" as puppies via a rescue from a shelter dog momma. The third was a neglected puppy left to bark and cry in a crate from a couple months old til about 9 months old when my sister told her friend either they treat the dog better or she was taking it. She took it. That dog is a HUGE blue pit bull that even I (and I am a dog lover) used to hesitate around at first. He is a fantastic dog and I would trust him in any situation (outside a pack situation.) The other two. Dear God those two. They were both genuinely "rescued." I hate how we use the word "rescue" to describe rehoming a dog rather than buying it from a breeder. Anyway... These two were littermates, about 9 months old. There were more than 10 of them living in a room of a house and were fed just enough to stay alive. The aggressive dogs got more food than the less bold dogs. Anyway. My brother wanted a dog, and the shelter wouldn't adopt one to him 1) he worked and the dog would be alone more than a few hours a day and 2) he couldn't afford to put up a fence. My sister knew a girl who knew the people that were abusing and puppy milling these pits, and the weaker dogs in the room were going to the shelter, so she convinced them to let my brother have one. My brother and my sisters guy went to go get the young dog. My brother took one, and while they were there my sister's boyfriend saw another he didn't think would survive the shelter, so he took it. Of those two, one is a fear biter. I won't go near that dog, and my sister and her family won't let people near it. But of course people always "know better" "he likes me" "he's so cute, he'd never hurt anyone" etc. and have been bit (no one has needed stitches.) Obviously this was not the case with this little girl, I'm just addressing training/ responsible dog ownership. My sister has two other dogs. The huge fantastic blue pit, and a Pomeranian, both of which are well trained and trustworthy with people. The actual rescue, she's done everything she can (multiple trainers and types of training... I personally would have put the dog down) and the best she can do now is keep him away from people. As best as she can. She has signs up outside her home, and he has two places in the house where he is kept when there is company that have signs. This dog has no interest in interacting with people, he's scared. But people won't leave him alone. Clearly the owners of the dogs in this attack weren't doing well by either the humans in the situation or the dogs. My brothers pit is also a disaster. I don't think he'd ever in a million years hurt a person or an animal. He's afraid of his own shadow, but his coping mechanism is freezing and hiding, and peeing on himself. Vomiting if he can't get away. 6 years in a loving home and he's still a mess. I'd have put him out of his misery years ago. I refuse to blame the breed, but I do agree there is a large degree of who actually buys/adopts them and their reasons that factor into the pit bull problem. They are notorious puppy mill dogs, often raised in questionable and downright horrible conditions. I think rescues sometimes go too far in an attempt to rehabilitate, and the new owners don't maintain that level of discipline and stability, and I do agree that there are just way way way too many of them. That said, I refuse to lump the entire breed as bad. Yes, training is essential, more so with any large/giant breed. Unfortunately, different people have different versions of "trained." Oh I did quite a few years of rescue (including "pit bulls"), and I've only been bitten once in my life. A Pekingese, and it's not included in a statistic anywhere. Nor is the time my son was bitten by a lab mix while picking up my dog at dog day care. My dog is also a (non pit) rescue and after nearly 7 years in my home she still has a few triggers from her past. I know how she handles them though, and that makes me trust her.
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Deleted
Posts: 0
Apr 25, 2024 15:12:42 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Aug 22, 2019 21:06:15 GMT
"The owner of three dogs who mauled a 9-year-old Detroit girl to death earlier this week has been charged with murder, the Wayne County Prosecutor's Office said on Thursday. According to court records, 33-year-old Pierre Cleveland has been charged second degree murder, involuntary manslaughter and having a dangerous animal causing death. He was arraigned on Thursday afternoon and given a $2 million bond with no 10 percent." I'm so glad he was charged. I was afraid they were going to go the "hasn't everyone suffered enough route" that prosecutors sometimes take when it's not 1st degree/accidental. NO! Like a loaded gun near a toddler, an aggressive dog (or 3!) needs to be monitored and CONTROLLED. Can't handle that? Don't get one! OR FACE THE CONSEQUENCES!!!! www.wxyz.com/news/dog-owner-expected-to-be-charged-in-mauling-death-of-9-year-old-detroit-girl
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Post by FuzzyMutt on Aug 22, 2019 21:13:10 GMT
I just can't imagine how much pain and agony she experienced, and how her family must be feeling.
I just read in the above article that her 12 year old brother saw the aftermath of her attack. That poor little boy. How horrible.
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inkedup
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 4,837
Jun 26, 2014 5:00:26 GMT
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Post by inkedup on Aug 22, 2019 21:15:23 GMT
Why is it that, when I google "Emma Hernandez", pictures and stories of millionaire Bill Pulte keep popping up?
Because this millionaire tweeted a request for other, non-millionaires to pay for the funeral? And then he "benevolently" steps in and says he'll pay for the funeral if crowd sourcing can't? I bet Bill Pulte and his family spend a lot more on trivial shit than this funeral cost - why not just privately make a donation and/or pay?
It's so disgusting that he has inserted himself into this and that he is being treated like some kind of hero. It's gross to open an article that is supposed to be about this little girl and to find that the initial focus of the article is Bill Pulte.
I cannot imagine the horror that poor baby experienced, nor do I want to imagine the hell her family is living. My heart goes out to them. I am so sad for Emma and her family. What a tragic, terrible loss.
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AnotherPea
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 2,968
Jan 4, 2015 1:47:52 GMT
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Post by AnotherPea on Aug 22, 2019 22:33:45 GMT
No, some dogs are born much more aggressive than others. Like all genetic characteristics, certain traits are more concentrated in specific breeds. I think thatâs naive and uninformed. Any dog can bite if provoked. 3 vs a person is a pack attack, which is a different dynamic, entirely. The only dog Iâve ever been bitten by in my life (enough to leave a permanent mark) was a very docile and gentle black lab. Nope, not naive or uniformed. Just the opposite. My statements are not just based on personal experience but in science. Breed standards describe temperament just as they describe physical features.
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sassyangel
Drama Llama
Posts: 7,456
Jun 26, 2014 23:58:32 GMT
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Post by sassyangel on Aug 23, 2019 6:18:41 GMT
I think thatâs naive and uninformed. Any dog can bite if provoked. 3 vs a person is a pack attack, which is a different dynamic, entirely. The only dog Iâve ever been bitten by in my life (enough to leave a permanent mark) was a very docile and gentle black lab. Nope, not naive or uniformed. Just the opposite. My statements are not just based on personal experience but in science. Breed standards describe temperament just as they describe physical features. Even science doesnât uniformly agree on that being the case. And most of these dogs that attack are mixed breeds, there is no uniform standard of temperament for these mixed breeds that are referred to as pitbulls.
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Deleted
Posts: 0
Apr 25, 2024 15:12:42 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Aug 23, 2019 8:42:01 GMT
I was just doing some research and saw one article that said that in 2017 74% of fatal dog attacks were by pit bulls. I would be interested in knowing more about the training of these dogs, and if training actually works. The pit bulls I have been in contact with were not pleasant at all, whether they had been trained or not. There also seems to be mixed info about whether or not neutering increases or decreases aggression. Doesnât surprise me, the shelters in this country are full of pit bull mixes and chihuahua mixes. Donât underestimate the damage even chihuahuas teeth with even a third of the bite force of a larger dog can do to fragile child and elderly skin. Even if neutering didnât work effectively enough for aggression, it would most certainly work for population control, and the shelters wouldnât be full of them. Thatâs more than half the problem, right there. And yes, training does work. It requires time (a lot of it) consistency and tailoring it to the individual dog. Like I said, I would not even remotely describe a pack of dogs allowed to run all over arriving visitors or one that had to be put in a kennel when they arrived due to acting out, as effectively trained. Unfortunately, there is nothing to stop people who really shouldnât have dogs from owning them, and allowing their irresponsible behavior to perpetuate. And it results in tragedies like that precious innocent little girl. Years ago, I was heavily involved with an animal adoption league. We did several spay/neuter clinics in impoverished neighborhoods. I cannot tell you how many times I came across dog owners that were âaggressiveâ with us about having a dogâs balls chopped off. NEVER once did they comment on the spaying of a female. It was always...âI am not going to let anyone take his MANHOODâ. The majority of these people were pit owners. Food for thought. I am a BIG believer in spay/neuter for pets. I have seen the horrible things or just sheer neglect people do for animals. I also believe pits are like a loaded gun. Own them, but you must handle with extreme caution. Edited to add: I have also come across above comments at fundraising events from all classes of people. People think their dogâs balls are a reflection of their own pair.
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swisspea
New Member
Posts: 3
Aug 23, 2019 8:05:19 GMT
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Post by swisspea on Aug 23, 2019 9:23:13 GMT
This is so tragic! can't even imagine what the poor family is going through
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kibblesandbits
Pearl Clutcher
At the corner of Awesome and Bombdiggity
Posts: 3,305
Aug 13, 2016 13:47:39 GMT
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Post by kibblesandbits on Aug 23, 2019 10:29:47 GMT
Why is it that, when I google "Emma Hernandez", pictures and stories of millionaire Bill Pulte keep popping up? Because this millionaire tweeted a request for other, non-millionaires to pay for the funeral? And then he "benevolently" steps in and says he'll pay for the funeral if crowd sourcing can't? I bet Bill Pulte and his family spend a lot more on trivial shit than this funeral cost - why not just privately make a donation and/or pay? It's so disgusting that he has inserted himself into this and that he is being treated like some kind of hero. It's gross to open an article that is supposed to be about this little girl and to find that the initial focus of the article is Bill Pulte. I cannot imagine the horror that poor baby experienced, nor do I want to imagine the hell her family is living. My heart goes out to them. I am so sad for Emma and her family. What a tragic, terrible loss. The family had already set up a Go Fund Me, a local business man with tons of connections tweeted about it and encouraged donations, then said he'd pay if not covered. What is your actual problem? Because he's a "millionaire"? So am I -and I'll bet there's a few of us here. He's living and working the social media system . . . I don't see the issue here. And, on a more personal side, Bill Pulte employs a lot of people and does quite a bit of social giving. He's pretty well known for giving away money.
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Country Ham
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 3,313
Jun 25, 2014 19:32:08 GMT
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Post by Country Ham on Aug 23, 2019 12:22:30 GMT
Why is it that we blame the dog instead of the owner? Dogs are not born vicious - any breed. People make them vicious. My son was jogging in our subdivision and a dog on the other side of the block ran out of it's yard and bit my son right on his butt and drew blood. I blame the dog.
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carhoch
Pearl Clutcher
Be yourself everybody else is already taken
Posts: 2,990
Location: Weâre RVâs so It change all the time .
Jun 28, 2014 21:46:39 GMT
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Post by carhoch on Aug 23, 2019 13:04:59 GMT
I have dogs always have always will that being said dog owners need to be legally responsible for their animals . If your dog kill a child You should go to jail ,if your kid killed his little brother with your gun you should also go to jail and if you leave your kid in a hot car jail and the list goes on and on we need to be responsible and we need to be held accountable. Iâm so tired of all this shit we need to be better humans .
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johnnysmom
Drama Llama
Posts: 5,682
Jun 25, 2014 21:16:33 GMT
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Post by johnnysmom on Aug 23, 2019 13:28:00 GMT
Why is it that we blame the dog instead of the owner? Dogs are not born vicious - any breed. People make them vicious. My son was jogging in our subdivision and a dog on the other side of the block ran out of it's yard and bit my son right on his butt and drew blood. I blame the dog. But the owner didn't make sure the dog was properly restrained. It's also likely the dog was not properly trained if he bit someone unprovoked.
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Post by iamkristinl16 on Aug 23, 2019 13:30:39 GMT
Something came across my instagram the other day. Two young pit bulls âplayingâ. They were both frozen, eyes locked and growling at each other. It was absolutely chilling. But then I read the comments and they were like âawww, what a cute pittie familyâ âwow, gorgeous dogsâ. âItâs so fun to watch them playâ. I didnât even bother to leave a comment. I just unfollowed. this is Unbelievable. This is what the mom and baby pitbulls in the situations that I described did on a regular basis. In the one situation, right next to the human baby. They weren't taught to do that. That is what they do by nature. Because they are animals. I am sure it isn't just pit bull dogs that do that, but they do seem to have some unique features that make them more aggressive and/or more likely to cause severe damage.
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Post by FuzzyMutt on Aug 23, 2019 15:37:25 GMT
My son was jogging in our subdivision and a dog on the other side of the block ran out of it's yard and bit my son right on his butt and drew blood. I blame the dog. But the owner didn't make sure the dog was properly restrained. It's also likely the dog was not properly trained if he bit someone unprovoked. Does it matter who/what is blamed? The dog bit someone. It does not have a responsible owner/caretaker. The person that was supposed to be responsible didn't properly train, or restrain the dog. The dog should be put down and the owner should no longer be allowed to care for pets. If a bite is severe, the owner should be responsible for medical bills etc including negligence. Why is this so hard?
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inkedup
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 4,837
Jun 26, 2014 5:00:26 GMT
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Post by inkedup on Aug 23, 2019 15:59:12 GMT
Why is it that, when I google "Emma Hernandez", pictures and stories of millionaire Bill Pulte keep popping up? Because this millionaire tweeted a request for other, non-millionaires to pay for the funeral? And then he "benevolently" steps in and says he'll pay for the funeral if crowd sourcing can't? I bet Bill Pulte and his family spend a lot more on trivial shit than this funeral cost - why not just privately make a donation and/or pay? It's so disgusting that he has inserted himself into this and that he is being treated like some kind of hero. It's gross to open an article that is supposed to be about this little girl and to find that the initial focus of the article is Bill Pulte. I cannot imagine the horror that poor baby experienced, nor do I want to imagine the hell her family is living. My heart goes out to them. I am so sad for Emma and her family. What a tragic, terrible loss. The family had already set up a Go Fund Me, a local business man with tons of connections tweeted about it and encouraged donations, then said he'd pay if not covered.  What is your actual problem? Because he's a "millionaire"?  So am I -and I'll bet there's a few of us here.  He's living and working the social media system . . . I don't see the issue here.  And, on a more personal side, Bill Pulte employs a lot of people and does quite a bit of social giving.  He's pretty well known for giving away money.  Yeah, I hate Bill Pulte because he is wealthy. đ I think the adoring media coverage is inappropriate and I think Bill Pulte is enjoying the spotlight. I question the altruism of anyone who feels the need to broadcast their good deeds to the world. I could not care less about your finances. I don't feel the need to share my net worth with the peas.
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sassyangel
Drama Llama
Posts: 7,456
Jun 26, 2014 23:58:32 GMT
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Post by sassyangel on Aug 23, 2019 22:14:05 GMT
Doesnât surprise me, the shelters in this country are full of pit bull mixes and chihuahua mixes. Donât underestimate the damage even chihuahuas teeth with even a third of the bite force of a larger dog can do to fragile child and elderly skin. Even if neutering didnât work effectively enough for aggression, it would most certainly work for population control, and the shelters wouldnât be full of them. Thatâs more than half the problem, right there. And yes, training does work. It requires time (a lot of it) consistency and tailoring it to the individual dog. Like I said, I would not even remotely describe a pack of dogs allowed to run all over arriving visitors or one that had to be put in a kennel when they arrived due to acting out, as effectively trained. Unfortunately, there is nothing to stop people who really shouldnât have dogs from owning them, and allowing their irresponsible behavior to perpetuate. And it results in tragedies like that precious innocent little girl. Years ago, I was heavily involved with an animal adoption league. We did several spay/neuter clinics in impoverished neighborhoods. I cannot tell you how many times I came across dog owners that were âaggressiveâ with us about having a dogâs balls chopped off. NEVER once did they comment on the spaying of a female. It was always...âI am not going to let anyone take his MANHOODâ. The majority of these people were pit owners. Food for thought. I am a BIG believer in spay/neuter for pets. I have seen the horrible things or just sheer neglect people do for animals. I also believe pits are like a loaded gun. Own them, but you must handle with extreme caution. Edited to add: I have also come across above comments at fundraising events from all classes of people. People think their dogâs balls are a reflection of their own pair. That does not surprise me in the least. People like that have no business owning ANY dogs, but yes especially dogs like that. Thatâs so irresponsible and a prime example of toxic masculinity, taken to the extreme. Ugh, that makes me so angry.
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kibblesandbits
Pearl Clutcher
At the corner of Awesome and Bombdiggity
Posts: 3,305
Aug 13, 2016 13:47:39 GMT
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Post by kibblesandbits on Aug 24, 2019 11:54:18 GMT
The family had already set up a Go Fund Me, a local business man with tons of connections tweeted about it and encouraged donations, then said he'd pay if not covered. What is your actual problem? Because he's a "millionaire"? So am I -and I'll bet there's a few of us here. He's living and working the social media system . . . I don't see the issue here. And, on a more personal side, Bill Pulte employs a lot of people and does quite a bit of social giving. He's pretty well known for giving away money. Yeah, I hate Bill Pulte because he is wealthy. đ I think the adoring media coverage is inappropriate and I think Bill Pulte is enjoying the spotlight. I question the altruism of anyone who feels the need to broadcast their good deeds to the world.I could not care less about your finances. I don't feel the need to share my net worth with the peas. You must do a hell of a lot of "questioning" then. Most major large scale development projects are named for their benefactors.
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Deleted
Posts: 0
Apr 25, 2024 15:12:42 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Aug 24, 2019 14:44:28 GMT
Yeah, I hate Bill Pulte because he is wealthy. đ I think the adoring media coverage is inappropriate and I think Bill Pulte is enjoying the spotlight. I question the altruism of anyone who feels the need to broadcast their good deeds to the world.I could not care less about your finances. I don't feel the need to share my net worth with the peas. You must do a hell of a lot of "questioning" then. Most major large scale development projects are named for their benefactors. This is NOT a development project. It is the mauling tearing apart death of a 9 yo. Bill Pulte should have donated anonymously and left it at that.
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katybee
Drama Llama
Posts: 5,377
Jun 25, 2014 23:25:39 GMT
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Post by katybee on Aug 24, 2019 15:04:45 GMT
Iâm a huge proponent for gun control, but, to be fair, a gun is an inanimate object. Iâm not sure you can really compare that to an animal. I own a very large male dog. Heâs so unlikely to bite, itâs almost laughable... heâs a St. Bernard. But, I also know that if he ever did bite, he could do some serious damage; way more than my momâs ShihTzu, which bit all the damn time. Thereâs a reason I chose this breed, and itâs because of the breed traits: Saints are low-energy, very calm and docile, and frankly, not very smart. Heâs never going to be a running partner for me. Heâs never going to be an agility champion. Heâs what he is, which is a big âol lump on my floor that I trip over because heâs always laying under me. So, if you choose a breed that has more protective/aggressive traits, you canât be surprised when the dog exhibits them. You can be happy if your dog doesnât (because, like kids, everyoneâs pet is perfect and well-behaved) but it doesnât mean your dog never will, just that it hasnât yet. Thatâs exactly the problem. A gun, without a human, just lays there. A dog can act on itâs own, even when the human wishes no harm. Thatâs why I blame BOTH. The gun AND the owner. The dog AND the owner. Both guns and dangerous breeds of dogs should be restricted and regulated.
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Post by tracyarts on Aug 24, 2019 15:53:01 GMT
I'm glad that the owner is being held responsible and it isn't being brushed off as a "tragic accident" scenario.
I'm 100% anti pit bull now. I used to think that maulings were caused by poor ownership and lack of supervision. But after reviewing statistics and reading testimonials from dog attack survivors and witnesses, I have come to realize that it is absolutely the breed and its variants/mixes and not owners.
IMO, allowing an unmuzzled pit bull or related/mix in a home with children is the same as leaving a loaded gun out on the coffee table in a home with children.
When you read the details of attacks, you realize that it has little to do with how dogs are raised or supervised. Dogs that are neutered, have been certified as safe and friendly for family pets, were raised properly from birth, and that have no history of aggression have maimed and killed people of all ages. And attacks frequently happen with children being supervised or with groups of people around. There are cases of children being found mauled to death with an adult incapacitated by the mauling. There are cases where a dog has attacked a person in a group and multiple adults couldn't stop the attack before devastating damage was done to the victim. In many cases the dog just snapped without any normal warning signs. Or the dogs ran up onto a person who was minding their own business (like busting through a window or climbing a fence to get at a person outside). Supervision does nothing when the dog can easily overpower the adults doing the supervising. And when the attacks are so intense that the only way to make it stop is to kill the dog.
A great site to educate yourself is dogsbite.org, they are anti-pit bull but back it up with statistics, media reports, survivor testimony, and documentation.
I won't go into homes with these dogs, and if I see one being walked in public, I leave. They are too volatile and unpredictable. And with so many attacks happening unprovoked and for no known reason, they truly are dangerous.
I had to dump a friend of 25 years because she became a backyard pit bull breeder, markets her dogs as "family friendly", and uses her small grandchildren as photo props with the dogs to promote them as safe and gentle.
They may be friendly pets for some families, until they're not. I trust reals over feels, and the documented cases are real.
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Deleted
Posts: 0
Apr 25, 2024 15:12:42 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Aug 24, 2019 17:01:05 GMT
Something came across my instagram the other day. Two young pit bulls âplayingâ. They were both frozen, eyes locked and growling at each other. It was absolutely chilling. But then I read the comments and they were like âawww, what a cute pittie familyâ âwow, gorgeous dogsâ. âItâs so fun to watch them playâ. I didnât even bother to leave a comment. I just unfollowed. this is Unbelievable. This is what the mom and baby pitbulls in the situations that I described did on a regular basis. In the one situation, right next to the human baby. They weren't taught to do that. That is what they do by nature. Because they are animals. I am sure it isn't just pit bull dogs that do that, but they do seem to have some unique features that make them more aggressive and/or more likely to cause severe damage. They were originally created by crossbreeding bulldogs and terriers to produce a dog that combined the strength of the bulldog with the gameness and agility of the terrier and were initially crossbead purely for fighting. Although over the years they have been crossed bred with other dogs so it's pretty difficult to say for definite that any are a pure breed from their descendants. But having cross bread them with other breeds they still have a certain amount of the original DNA in their make-up which is what makes them so aggressive and most of all the strength they have in their bite, they.will.not.let.go.of.their.prey. I realize that other dogs bite but they don't hang on until the end in the same way as a pit bull does.Thankfully both the ownership and breeding of pit bulls is banned in the UK. We've had fatalities in the past before the ban was enforced.
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kibblesandbits
Pearl Clutcher
At the corner of Awesome and Bombdiggity
Posts: 3,305
Aug 13, 2016 13:47:39 GMT
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Post by kibblesandbits on Aug 24, 2019 17:05:49 GMT
You must do a hell of a lot of "questioning" then. Most major large scale development projects are named for their benefactors. This is NOT a development project. It is the mauling tearing apart death of a 9 yo. Bill Pulte should have donated anonymously and left it at that. He didn't, because lending his name and audience to the fundraising benefited the family. They needed the money, and needed it fast. They already had a GoFundMe set up, he just got the word out in the most time sensitive way. I don't see the family griping about it . . . Here's the thing with philanthropy/charitable giving. Sometimes putting your name on an effort BENEFITS the recipient. Sometimes it doesn't. For my husband and I, we are selective both about our philanthropy as well as whether we are "named" or not. I was an orphan and spent time in an orphanage during my young life. We give generously to a local children's home - both as named sponsors (for major capital fundraising efforts) and anonymously (for personal items directly for the kids). We are named sponsors when we need to raise big money and want to encourage our friends/contacts to join us. For personal items, I don't want my name all over it, nor do I want to be involved in the distribution of the item. I want the kids to have as much choice as possible and feel as normal as possible. It's why I DO NOT get involved with Toys For Tots - just the thought of having a kid stand there with their hand out asking for what should come freely makes my stomach sick. It's never as simple as "some millionaire throwing their money around". And, it's a rather weak argument to toss that trope out there and walk away. Both you @zingermack and inkedup are smarter than that. It's my hope that we haven't a penny left when we're done.
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Post by kernriver on Aug 24, 2019 17:15:36 GMT
I'm glad that the owner is being held responsible and it isn't being brushed off as a "tragic accident" scenario. I'm 100% anti pit bull now. I used to think that maulings were caused by poor ownership and lack of supervision. But after reviewing statistics and reading testimonials from dog attack survivors and witnesses, I have come to realize that it is absolutely the breed and its variants/mixes and not owners. IMO, allowing an unmuzzled pit bull or related/mix in a home with children is the same as leaving a loaded gun out on the coffee table in a home with children. When you read the details of attacks, you realize that it has little to do with how dogs are raised or supervised. Dogs that are neutered, have been certified as safe and friendly for family pets, were raised properly from birth, and that have no history of aggression have maimed and killed people of all ages. And attacks frequently happen with children being supervised or with groups of people around. There are cases of children being found mauled to death with an adult incapacitated by the mauling. There are cases where a dog has attacked a person in a group and multiple adults couldn't stop the attack before devastating damage was done to the victim. In many cases the dog just snapped without any normal warning signs. Or the dogs ran up onto a person who was minding their own business (like busting through a window or climbing a fence to get at a person outside). Supervision does nothing when the dog can easily overpower the adults doing the supervising. And when the attacks are so intense that the only way to make it stop is to kill the dog. A great site to educate yourself is dogsbite.org, they are anti-pit bull but back it up with statistics, media reports, survivor testimony, and documentation. I won't go into homes with these dogs, and if I see one being walked in public, I leave. They are too volatile and unpredictable. And with so many attacks happening unprovoked and for no known reason, they truly are dangerous. I had to dump a friend of 25 years because she became a backyard pit bull breeder, markets her dogs as "family friendly", and uses her small grandchildren as photo props with the dogs to promote them as safe and gentle. They may be friendly pets for some families, until they're not. I trust reals over feels, and the documented cases are real. Bravo. Well-said.
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mallie
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 3,253
Jul 3, 2014 18:13:13 GMT
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Post by mallie on Aug 24, 2019 20:08:07 GMT
Doesnât surprise me, the shelters in this country are full of pit bull mixes and chihuahua mixes. Donât underestimate the damage even chihuahuas teeth with even a third of the bite force of a larger dog can do to fragile child and elderly skin. Even if neutering didnât work effectively enough for aggression, it would most certainly work for population control, and the shelters wouldnât be full of them. Thatâs more than half the problem, right there. And yes, training does work. It requires time (a lot of it) consistency and tailoring it to the individual dog. Like I said, I would not even remotely describe a pack of dogs allowed to run all over arriving visitors or one that had to be put in a kennel when they arrived due to acting out, as effectively trained. Unfortunately, there is nothing to stop people who really shouldnât have dogs from owning them, and allowing their irresponsible behavior to perpetuate. And it results in tragedies like that precious innocent little girl. Years ago, I was heavily involved with an animal adoption league. We did several spay/neuter clinics in impoverished neighborhoods. I cannot tell you how many times I came across dog owners that were âaggressiveâ with us about having a dogâs balls chopped off. NEVER once did they comment on the spaying of a female. It was always...âI am not going to let anyone take his MANHOODâ. The majority of these people were pit owners. Food for thought. I am a BIG believer in spay/neuter for pets. I have seen the horrible things or just sheer neglect people do for animals. I also believe pits are like a loaded gun. Own them, but you must handle with extreme caution. Edited to add: I have also come across above comments at fundraising events from all classes of people. People think their dogâs balls are a reflection of their own pair. I have known many women who refuse to get their female pets fixed until after they have own litter. "But they should have the experience! They should have a chance to be a MOTHER!" SMH I am so so sorry for this little girl. The terror she must have felt. I was bitten by a large dog when I was a little kid and it took me many years to get over the fear of large dogs. Even today, every time I am around one, I have to have a mantra going in my head, "He's not going to bite you, he's not going to bite you..." The dog that bit me was a dog that was a known risk, a former K-9 police dog whose cop handler was allowed to take him home as a family pet after he get kicked off the force for biting too many people. That cop did not think twice, however, about letting this dog loose in a large group of kids playing street ball. I just happened to be the one who got bit. It could have been anyone. That cop resisted having him put down. "But he's a good dog!" No, asshole, he is NOT. And guess what -- that dog was not put down. I am sure he went on to hurt other people.
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lizacreates
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 3,856
Aug 29, 2015 2:39:19 GMT
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Post by lizacreates on Aug 24, 2019 20:43:39 GMT
You must do a hell of a lot of "questioning" then. Most major large scale development projects are named for their benefactors. This is NOT a development project. It is the mauling tearing apart death of a 9 yo. Bill Pulte should have donated anonymously and left it at that. I guess what I donât understand is why it would matter whether Pulte wanted his aid to garner publicity or not. Yes, itâs rather macabre and distasteful to be using someoneâs death as a platform for oneâs Twitter ambitions. It can even said to be grotesque. But at the end of the day, the family was able to raise more than what they were asking for, probably partly due to Pulte's promotion of the familyâs gofundme. Isnât that what matters? That in a time of great sorrow and financial difficulty that they were helped?
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