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Post by idahomom on Aug 23, 2019 19:27:07 GMT
As a tax payer I don't want to contribute to this. Feeding and sheltering our homeless community, yes. Medical care for our veterans and elderly, yes. Unnecessary surgery on an inmate serving time for sexual abuse of a child, no. News StoryBOISE, Idaho — A federal appeals court says Idaho must provide gender confirmation surgery to a transgender inmate who has been living as a woman for years but who has continuously been housed in a men's prison. The 9th U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals on Friday agreed with a federal judge in Idaho that the state's denying the surgery for Adree Edmo amounted to cruel and unusual punishment, a violation of the U.S. Constitution. MORE: Appellate court to hear transgender inmate's surgery lawsuit U.S. District Court Judge B. Lynn Winmill in December ruled that Edmo showed she had a serious medical need and that failure to treat her medical condition could result in significant further injury or the unnecessary and wanton infliction of pain. Idaho Gov. Brad Little issued the following response today to the appeals court decision: “The court’s decision is extremely disappointing. The hardworking taxpayers of Idaho should not be forced to pay for a convicted sex offender’s gender reassignment surgery when it is contrary to the medical opinions of the treating physician and multiple mental health professionals. I intend to appeal this decision to the U.S Supreme Court. We cannot divert critical public dollars away from the higher priorities of keeping the public safe and rehabilitating offenders.”
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Post by busy on Aug 23, 2019 19:32:17 GMT
I think it's inhumane to keep a trans woman in a men's prison.
I'm guessing they won't transfer her to a women's prison without the surgery?
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Post by LiLi on Aug 23, 2019 20:05:06 GMT
My immediate thought is, a child abuser in prison, no way! No Surgery (of any kind)! Child molesters don't deserve anything! However, this isn't how prison works. Even prisoners deserve have basic human rights. I personally think that we need to put more effort into changing our prison system to be more reformative, and prisoners no matter how awful they may be, are still human. So, after putting my bias aside and letting my logical mind take over... As a tax payer I don't want to contribute to this. Feeding and sheltering our homeless community, yes. Medical care for our veterans and elderly, yes. Unnecessary surgery on an inmate serving time for sexual abuse of a child, no. Unnecessary? I dunno. This is a human, that deserves human treatment. My final thought is it IS necessary. It is just as medically necessary as any other procedure would be. SourceSource
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Post by idahomom on Aug 23, 2019 20:24:46 GMT
A person not in custody would have to go through their insurance or pay for it themselves. It may be considered necessary, but maybe it needs to wait 2 years until the sentence has been served and the cost doesn't fall on taxpayers.
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Post by femalebusiness on Aug 23, 2019 20:28:36 GMT
I'm of the opinion that no elective surgery should be paid for by the tax payers but will admit I haven't thought in depth about it.
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Post by femalebusiness on Aug 23, 2019 20:32:39 GMT
I think it's inhumane to keep a trans woman in a men's prison. I'm guessing they won't transfer her to a women's prison without the surgery? I do believe that trans women belong in a women's prison. Maybe if you are pre-surgery trans woman don't get thrown into prison in the first place.
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Post by Skellinton on Aug 23, 2019 20:50:32 GMT
I think it's inhumane to keep a trans woman in a men's prison. I'm guessing they won't transfer her to a women's prison without the surgery? I do believe that trans women belong in a women's prison. Maybe if you are pre-surgery trans woman don't get thrown into prison in the first place. I agree, but since she is already there it seems like maybe they could deal with it in a better way. They must have solitary that isn’t an extra punishment type of situation.
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Post by femalebusiness on Aug 23, 2019 20:53:10 GMT
I do believe that trans women belong in a women's prison. Maybe if you are pre-surgery trans woman don't get thrown into prison in the first place. I agree, but since she is already there it seems like maybe they could deal with it in a better way. They must have solitary that isn’t an extra punishment type of situation. That is a good solution!
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Post by busy on Aug 23, 2019 20:55:31 GMT
I do believe that trans women belong in a women's prison. Maybe if you are pre-surgery trans woman don't get thrown into prison in the first place. I agree, but since she is already there it seems like maybe they could deal with it in a better way. They must have solitary that isn’t an extra punishment type of situation. Solitary is always an extra punishment. People are not meant to be alone for extended periods of time and there is a lot of research showing the negative mental health effects of solitary confinement.
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Just T
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Post by Just T on Aug 23, 2019 21:10:36 GMT
I agree, but since she is already there it seems like maybe they could deal with it in a better way. They must have solitary that isn’t an extra punishment type of situation. Solitary is always an extra punishment. People are not meant to be alone for extended periods of time and there is a lot of research showing the negative mental health effects of solitary confinement. This may be a very unpopular opinion, but as someone who has seen the devastating effects on my family for generations because of child molestation, I really do not give a rip if someone in prison for sexual abuse of a child has negative effects on his mental health from being in prison. If that makes me cold hearted, oh well, I will own that.
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Post by idahomom on Aug 23, 2019 21:21:37 GMT
I share your opinion. A family member was sentenced last October to 40 years (10 fixed) for molesting my niece for 10 years, starting when she was 4. I was in disbelief at first because this person had manipulated us all into believing he was such a good person. He also tried multiple times to be alone with my teenage daughter, but I never let it happen because I thought it was weird (mother's instincts were right obviously). I do hope he rots in prison and have no sympathy for him or his mental state. My niece's mother helped this pedophile by not reporting the abuse and destroying evidence (confession letter and computer that porn was viewed on). This woman is a social worker specializing in sexual abuse and marital issues. She pled guilty and got a slap on the wrist. She is still a licensed social worker in Idaho. Oh, and she's waiting for the pedophile and they will reunite when he is released from prison. I'm more concerned with my 16yo niece and her mental state. She has some very good motherly role models and we're loving her like our own.
This person is in the same prison as the trans woman in this story above. Sexual offenders are in their own block of the prison.
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Post by dewryce on Aug 23, 2019 21:22:02 GMT
Solitary is always an extra punishment. People are not meant to be alone for extended periods of time and there is a lot of research showing the negative mental health effects of solitary confinement. This may be a very unpopular opinion, but as someone who has seen the devastating effects on my family for generations because of child molestation, I really do not give a rip if someone in prison for sexual abuse of a child has negative effects on his mental health from being in prison. If that makes me cold hearted, oh well, I will own that. Okay, but what happens when they are released back into our society? We want them as mentally healthy as possible, don’t we? That is to the benefit of everyone, not just the prisoner.
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Just T
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Post by Just T on Aug 23, 2019 21:26:29 GMT
This may be a very unpopular opinion, but as someone who has seen the devastating effects on my family for generations because of child molestation, I really do not give a rip if someone in prison for sexual abuse of a child has negative effects on his mental health from being in prison. If that makes me cold hearted, oh well, I will own that. Okay, but what happens when they are released back into our society? We want them as mentally healthy as possible, don’t we? That is to the benefit of everyone, not just the prisoner. Well, again, probably an unpopular opinion, but I think if you sexually abuse a child, getting out of prison should not even be an option. But that is for another thread, I guess.
In this case, since this person is getting out in two years, the sex change surgery should have to wait and not be paid for by taxpayers. When we have children and veterans and other law abiding citizens who cannot get the healthcare they need, we should not be footing the bill for sex change surgery for a felon in prison.
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Post by dewryce on Aug 23, 2019 21:31:02 GMT
Okay, but what happens when they are released back into our society? We want them as mentally healthy as possible, don’t we? That is to the benefit of everyone, not just the prisoner. Well, again, probably an unpopular opinion, but I think if you sexually abuse a child, getting out of prison should not even be an option. But that is for another thread, I guess.
In this case, since this person is getting out in two years, the sex change surgery should have to wait and not be paid for by taxpayers. When we have children and veterans and other law abiding citizens who cannot get the healthcare they need, we should not be footing the bill for sex change surgery for a felon in prison.
But since they ARE being released, shouldn’t we want them as mentally healthy as possible?
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Post by 950nancy on Aug 23, 2019 21:31:42 GMT
I'm of the opinion that no elective surgery should be paid for by the tax payers but will admit I haven't thought in depth about it. Quietly sitting on this bench with you.
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Post by crimsoncat05 on Aug 23, 2019 21:31:50 GMT
who decides what's elective and what's necessary, though? Maybe people in prison shouldn't get any vaccinations, or any preventive dental care, either? Just because YOU don't think sex change surgery is necessary for the health and mental well being of this individual doesn't mean the people who got to decide would share your opinion.
If they have a process and determined this individual's surgery is necessary (by whatever criteria they have) then what's the difference? Just because of the TYPE of surgery it is, right? That's what it sounds like to me, by what's been written in this thread.
eta: the linked news story had little to no detail about the process that they went through in making this decision... I would think it was just a little more thorough than just a person asking for a random surgery and getting the answer 'yes' back.
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Post by idahomom on Aug 23, 2019 21:34:57 GMT
Families affected by child molestation cannot answer that. We just want the molesters to suffer.
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Just T
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Jun 26, 2014 1:20:09 GMT
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Post by Just T on Aug 23, 2019 21:36:36 GMT
Well, again, probably an unpopular opinion, but I think if you sexually abuse a child, getting out of prison should not even be an option. But that is for another thread, I guess.
In this case, since this person is getting out in two years, the sex change surgery should have to wait and not be paid for by taxpayers. When we have children and veterans and other law abiding citizens who cannot get the healthcare they need, we should not be footing the bill for sex change surgery for a felon in prison.
But since they ARE being released, shouldn’t we want them as mentally healthy as possible? You are probably right. I just have a very difficult time being rational when it comes to people who sexually abuse children. I can't have a rational discussion about it. My mother's grandmother's husband (not her grandfather) sexually abused my mom and all 9 of her siblings as well as all 5 of her cousins. Sadly, some of those who were abused by him, then abused the kids of my generation, and who knows where it ends. A close relative of mine served time in prison because of child pornography. There are a lot of f*d up people in my family because of sexual abuse.
Like I said, I just can't think rationally about child molesters. I think they should be locked away and castrated so they can never harm anyone ever again, not coddled in prison and given a free sex change operation.
I should bow out of this conversation.
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johnnysmom
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Jun 25, 2014 21:16:33 GMT
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Post by johnnysmom on Aug 23, 2019 21:42:16 GMT
I haven’t read the links but out of curiosity does anyone know if Medicaid covers this type of surgery? I would assume that prison medical coverage would be similar.
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Post by dewryce on Aug 23, 2019 21:42:55 GMT
But since they ARE being released, shouldn’t we want them as mentally healthy as possible? You are probably right. I just have a very difficult time being rational when it comes to people who sexually abuse children. I can't have a rational discussion about it. My mother's grandmother's husband (not her grandfather) sexually abused my mom and all 9 of her siblings as well as all 5 of her cousins. Sadly, some of those who were abused by him, then abused the kids of my generation, and who knows where it ends. A close relative of mine served time in prison because of child pornography. There are a lot of f*d up people in my family because of sexual abuse.
Like I said, I just can't think rationally about child molesters. I think they should be locked away and castrated so they can never harm anyone ever again, not coddled in prison and given a free sex change operation.
I should bow out of this conversation.
I completely understand the emotion behind your thoughts. Especially that initial visceral reaction. (((Hugs)))
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Post by ktdoesntscrap on Aug 23, 2019 21:58:00 GMT
Families affected by child molestation cannot answer that. We just want the molesters to suffer. As a victim of child molestation. I can answer that question. I would rather the person who molested me got healthy and didn't molest rather than suffer. I don't see any benefit to come out of suffering as more suffering generally cause the person to inflict more suffering. I think we need to change the way we look at prison and we need to think about how we help people become positively contributing members of society, and if they are not able to control themselves, as I believe many child molesters can't they should be kept away in a prison or place where they have no access to children. Suffering is not the answer.
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Deleted
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Apr 25, 2024 22:55:06 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Aug 23, 2019 22:16:58 GMT
Solitary is always an extra punishment. People are not meant to be alone for extended periods of time and there is a lot of research showing the negative mental health effects of solitary confinement. This may be a very unpopular opinion, but as someone who has seen the devastating effects on my family for generations because of child molestation, I really do not give a rip if someone in prison for sexual abuse of a child has negative effects on his mental health from being in prison. If that makes me cold hearted, oh well, I will own that. Agree. She sexually assaulted a child. Too fucking bad. Do your time as the gender you currently are. Choices have consequences. Zero fucks to give about this person's mental health.
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Post by busy on Aug 23, 2019 22:30:05 GMT
This may be a very unpopular opinion, but as someone who has seen the devastating effects on my family for generations because of child molestation, I really do not give a rip if someone in prison for sexual abuse of a child has negative effects on his mental health from being in prison. If that makes me cold hearted, oh well, I will own that. Agree. She sexually assaulted a child. Too fucking bad. Do your time as the gender you currently are. Choices have consequences. Zero fucks to give about this person's mental health. Since she and others like her will eventually be released back into society, it behooves us ALL to give at least a few fucks about how prisoners are treated, including their mental health. Our current system makes no effort to treat or rehabilitate prisoners, and treats humans like animals, then turns them out on the street in worse condition than when they went in, and as a result, our recidivism rate is astronomical.
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sassyangel
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Post by sassyangel on Aug 23, 2019 22:38:25 GMT
Well, again, probably an unpopular opinion, but I think if you sexually abuse a child, getting out of prison should not even be an option. But that is for another thread, I guess.
In this case, since this person is getting out in two years, the sex change surgery should have to wait and not be paid for by taxpayers. When we have children and veterans and other law abiding citizens who cannot get the healthcare they need, we should not be footing the bill for sex change surgery for a felon in prison.
But since they ARE being released, shouldn’t we want them as mentally healthy as possible? But are people who molest children, even mentally healthy in the first place? I'd argue it takes someone who is not the least bit mentally healthy to do that.
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Post by papercrafteradvocate on Aug 23, 2019 22:52:58 GMT
Okay, but what happens when they are released back into our society? We want them as mentally healthy as possible, don’t we? That is to the benefit of everyone, not just the prisoner. Well, again, probably an unpopular opinion, but I think if you sexually abuse a child, getting out of prison should not even be an option. But that is for another thread, I guess.
In this case, since this person is getting out in two years, the sex change surgery should have to wait and not be paid for by taxpayers. When we have children and veterans and other law abiding citizens who cannot get the healthcare they need, we should not be footing the bill for sex change surgery for a felon in prison.
Child abusers can rot in hell, I think if someone molested my child they’d never even be alive for prison! There are prisoners that will not see the light of day ever again. There are prisoners who are eligible to be released and the focus on when they’re in prison should be rehabilitation. If they serve the time they’ve been sentenced and are rehabbed, they are released back into the community. They too have rights (unfortunate for some). Sentencing laws need changed for those who molested children. Unfortunately we don’t get the luxury of deciding where our tax dollars are always spent. Politicians don’t always vote the way you’d like them to. The $$$ allotted for prisons isn’t the same pool of $$$ that are for veterans healthcare, and it’s the politicians who are fucking over the veterans (not the prison system).
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Post by Merge on Aug 23, 2019 23:00:28 GMT
While I have mixed feelings about this case, I’d point out that whatever this surgery costs will be a tiny drop in the bucket compared to the billions we spend on incarcerating Americans each year. It’s a very rare case. If we’re talking poor use of tax dollars, I’d rather we focus on the money we spend incarcerating people for nonviolent drug-related crimes than get fixated on one, rare case.
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Post by crimsoncat05 on Aug 23, 2019 23:21:57 GMT
While I have mixed feelings about this case, I’d point out that whatever this surgery costs will be a tiny drop in the bucket compared to the billions we spend on incarcerating Americans each year. It’s a very rare case. If we’re talking poor use of tax dollars, I’d rather we focus on the money we spend incarcerating people for nonviolent drug-related crimes than get fixated on one, rare case. Merge, don't go talking sensible, now.
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Post by dewryce on Aug 23, 2019 23:48:10 GMT
This may be a very unpopular opinion, but as someone who has seen the devastating effects on my family for generations because of child molestation, I really do not give a rip if someone in prison for sexual abuse of a child has negative effects on his mental health from being in prison. If that makes me cold hearted, oh well, I will own that. Agree. She sexually assaulted a child. Too fucking bad. Do your time as the gender you currently are. Choices have consequences. Zero fucks to give about this person's mental health. But this person’s mental health will affect society at large when they are released. You may not care about it for their sake, but what about for the rest of us? Are you okay with them releasing someone more with more mental issues than when they entered? Potentially more dangerous to society? Make it more likely that innocent people suffer when they are released just because you want them to suffer? Eta: Should have just kept reading and just quoted busy. What she said.
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Post by dewryce on Aug 23, 2019 23:49:00 GMT
But since they ARE being released, shouldn’t we want them as mentally healthy as possible? But are people who molest children, even mentally healthy in the first place? I'd argue it takes someone who is not the least bit mentally healthy to do that. So you want to make them even worse before they re-enter society?
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smcast
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Post by smcast on Aug 23, 2019 23:58:51 GMT
They're are bigger problems with a child molester than gender whatever. I'm with the ones with zero fucks. I don't think you can rehab someone that sick. Just my two cents
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