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Post by LavenderLayoutLady on Oct 6, 2019 12:16:13 GMT
Okay, I'm sure this will sound naive, but I was surprised to learn that a couple of the Christmas lines used purchased vector images (the cake) designed by another artist.
Is this the norm?
If sb designers aren't creating their own images, then why are we revering them?
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Post by scrappyem on Oct 6, 2019 14:03:39 GMT
I'm sure someone can answer better than I can, but my understanding is there are folks like Amy Tan that are the "face" of the line. Similar to a celebrity endorsement for a make-up line. The celebrity isn't actually creating the products but may have influence on colors and types of products to be included. Amy Tan explained on a podcast a while back that she gives some ideas and inspiration but the graphic designers at American Crafts take those ideas and then create the actual artwork. She's not a trained artist or graphic designer (which is fine. She's creative and crafty, and good at marketing herself & good for her for being honest about the process). Ali Edwards is a trained graphic designer but I don't think she is as much of an illustrator so she will buy things like the (creepy) Santa Face.
Tons of artists make their living selling their artwork for commercial use so it's an important part of the market. What I wish is the actual artists would get some sort of acknowledgment but that is not the norm. It bothers me in the same way ghosts writers very rarely are credited when they write a book. I realize that's the "industry standard" but it still bugs me. Hopefully it doesn't bother the artists and writers doing this type of work.
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Post by mcjunkin on Oct 6, 2019 14:32:36 GMT
Not sure about SB designers, but Tim Holtz does for sure. He buys art for his stamp sets. To his credit, he talks about it openly.
I see it as nowadays, designers are more curators of their "brand" than the actual artists/designers. I am OK with that as long as they are open about it and they are actually purchasing the images and not stealing them.
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camcas
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 3,950
Jun 26, 2014 3:41:19 GMT
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Post by camcas on Oct 6, 2019 21:08:57 GMT
...and then we have Steve Duncan....who is a designer and does his own stuff ...and I love reading about the inspiration behind his lines for Carta Bella ....and I may be a hopeless fan girl. I just love the colour palette he uses- particularly the greens -and the retro style of his imagery ❤️❤️❤️
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Post by joblackford on Oct 7, 2019 3:57:54 GMT
I have just been starting to understand this too, thanks mostly to the DD thread. I came across some of the little icon graphics for sale that, combined with some text and basic shapes, represent quite a big part of IACB's awesome designs. I figure that it makes sense. The same way we as crafters use pre-made things that we could theoretically draw, it saves a lot of time and maybe creates a bridge from the creator's skill level to their creative vision, but in some ways I'd rather go buy the graphics direct from the icon designer. But Geralyn does put them all together quite brilliantly.
I think all kinds of professional graphic designers buy a lot of premade things - talking to the graphic designer at work, admiring his work, and hearing that he just bought that image and recolored it and put it on our marketing materials took some of the shine off.
As for why we revere these folks - well, tbh I think some of them hardly deserve it. I think a lot of people here have as good an eye, as many skills, and just as much creativity as some of the designers we fawn over. I think a lot of us could do our own thing and step away from the designer products, at least in some areas. But I also don't really want to spend all my crafty time searching the internet for elements to use so I appreciate designers collecting them for me.
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Post by wendifful on Oct 7, 2019 4:17:40 GMT
I think too that it's important to remember that designers have their strengths and weaknesses, just like everyone else. For example, Kelly Purkey can design the heck out of sentiments, but most of the icons/drawings she uses are very basic (and for all I know, might be purchased, not created by her). That fits her aesthetic, so I'm not complaining at all. I'm actually finishing up my degree in graphic information technology/design and there's certain things I'm good at and some things I'm not (drawing being one of them). I try to make my own stuff whenever I can, but I'm never going to be as good at illustrating as some people, so if I were working on a project that needed a specific item, it might make sense to buy that asset rather than create a sub-standard one myself. It definitely IS a wakeup call when you realize that some of these designers aren't making everything themselves, so I do think it helps when they're transparent about their process. And I agree with joblackford that sometimes it helps to have a designer do the "collecting" so that I don't have to search everything out myself.
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Post by sleepingbooty on Oct 7, 2019 8:26:51 GMT
I feel I should take some of the responsibility for the bursting of the bubble on this matter. I posted several vector packs used in this year's holiday collections in the DD thread and didn't realise/didn't stop to think that it wasn't widespread knowledge some companies and brands buy packs of images from actual illustrators to create their collections and kits. I should've posted a disclaimer with these vector packs explaining that this a regular (albeit not used by all) practice in the industry.
There are three types of designers (whether individual designers or brands) in the SB world: 1. The co-curators like Maggie Holmes, Amy Tan and Paige Evans who will give an impulse to a collection they will put their name on. They will exchange back and forth with the mother house (like American Crafts) to co-create something that will fit both their vision and the upcoming trends (AC has people in their team dedicated to this). Things go back and forth and the in-house design team at AC will then start creating illustrations that fit this. We've had confirmation from Pink Paislee (brand under the AC umbrella) that they use(d to use) a private Pinterest board to exchange ideas and curate a visual board for their collaborative collections when they plagiarised Britt Bass Turner. Pink Paislee took the blame publicly because... dun dun duuun, Paige Evans didn't actually design the paper. She likely added the Britt Bass Turner painting to the private Pinterest board or approved that addition. AC didn't realise BBT would be recognised and tagged (or was a big enough name to get recognised and tagged). 2. The curators like a lot of smaller indie companies but not only. Think Felicity Jane, Ali Edwards (under the Inked umbrella), etc. They don't necessarily have the funds to pay an illustrator, unlike AC, or don't feel they are putting out enough product to do so. These brands/designers will buy vector packs for their collections. I would actually really appreciate if some of these brands started commissioning illustrations from smaller illustrators who'd enjoy getting paid a bit more than a couple of vector packs for simple exclusive designs. This type of collab would really shed a positive light on that brand and not cost them too much. There are loads of struggling illustrators who have reasonable pricing and will meet deadlines + send proofs for you to approve (or reject) before delivering the final product/set of images. They could use social media to post highlights of the collaborative work. But again, if people don't know the practices of an industry, there's likely little incentive to step up one's "woke" game. 3. The illustrators like Steven Duncan who is a 2PR fave (and even hops in here sometimes to say hi). They actually "make" the whole thing except the fonts (which I don't find necessary in graphic design for SB since images are usually the main focus).
Personally, I like to know how much the original artist has been paid for the contribution they've made to a SB line or kit before I buy it. I don't know exact salaries for AC in-house designers and such but they make a living from it and that's enough for me to know. When a popular kit or collection is heavily based on images that cost the brand 20 or so dollars to buy with a commercial license, I do stop and think to consider how much I am willing to pay for these products (digitally and/or as physical products), what other plus or minus points there are dealing with the brand (such as quality of paper and printing, customer service, etc.), how much time went into sourcing these vector packs (if I can find it in under 20 seconds by typing a couple of keywords, well, yeah), how original the overall theme is, and so on. Not everyone agrees with this approach and some will shrug and say that since these designers are selling their vector packs online with these licenses for such a low price, that's their decision and none of my business, etc. This simply doesn't sit well with my personality or values (or what I know from the major struggle of being a graphic designer these days). I like to look at the bigger picture to make fully informed decisions. However, I should have paused for a moment and put in a disclaimer when I posted the vector packs in the DD thread. That was my mistake. I genuinely didn't realise this would be a lift-the-veil moment for some scrapbookers on the board. I can see how this came as a bit of a shock. My bad.
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Post by wendifful on Oct 7, 2019 8:53:16 GMT
If sb designers aren't creating their own images, then why are we revering them? Sorry, I know I already replied, but I wanted to come back to this question. I know for myself, one of the reasons I was initially drawn to lines by the American Crafts designers was because they were scrapbookers themselves, so they designed things they would want to use. I'm not saying AC doesn't try to please scrapbookers on their non-designer lines, but when you're a consumer, you have a unique view you bring to the products you create. However, as these designers have stepped away from scrapbooking (Dear Lizzy, Maggie Holmes, Amy Tan), I've found their products less relevant. Recently I read an interesting article about the founding of Victoria's Secret. It was actually started by a man because he wanted a nice place where he could shop for lingerie for his wife. Although VS had its heyday, it's now struggling financially, mostly because it's been led by men who didn't understand what women wanted. Companies like Third Love and Aerie have thrived because they've listened to the consumer about body positivity, extended size ranges and comfort, not just male-centric sexiness. This is a bit different than scrapbook designers, but my point is that when the people designing products or helming a company are so far removed from the everyday consumer and assume they know best, eventually it will hurt their business. I think it was smart of AC to pick "designers" to curate scrapbook lines since they were the ultimate consumer and could help curate a collection that was tailored to crafters.
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Post by riversong1963 on Oct 7, 2019 11:35:31 GMT
Well, I don't "revere" anyone. It boggles my mind how so many fans on social media - especially YouTube - fall all over some of the influencers. I mean, I follow some of them and watch occasionally, but it's really annoying to see all that fuss and fawning. That's why I've decided to limit my time on those platforms and do more of my own thing. Why do something that annoys me so much? I love all the inspiration out there, but I have to know when enough is enough.
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Post by scrappyem on Oct 7, 2019 11:58:36 GMT
I feel I should take some of the responsibility for the bursting of the bubble on this matter. I posted several vector packs used in this year's holiday collections in the DD thread and didn't realise/didn't stop to think that it wasn't widespread knowledge some companies and brands buy packs of images from actual illustrators to create their collections and kits. I should've posted a disclaimer with these vector packs explaining that this a regular (albeit not used by all) practice in the industry. There are three types of designers (whether individual designers or brands) in the SB world: 1. The co-curators like Maggie Holmes, Amy Tan and Paige Evans who will give an impulse to a collection they will put their name on. They will exchange back and forth with the mother house (like American Crafts) to co-create something that will fit both their vision and the upcoming trends (AC has people in their team dedicated to this). Things go back and forth and the in-house design team at AC will then start creating illustrations that fit this. We've had confirmation from Pink Paislee (brand under the AC umbrella) that they use(d to use) a private Pinterest board to exchange ideas and curate a visual board for their collaborative collections when they plagiarised Britt Bass Turner. Pink Paislee took the blame publicly because... dun dun duuun, Paige Evans didn't actually design the paper. She likely added the Britt Bass Turner painting to the private Pinterest board or approved that addition. AC didn't realise BBT would be recognised and tagged (or was a big enough name to get recognised and tagged). 2. The curators like a lot of smaller indie companies but not only. Think Felicity Jane, Ali Edwards (under the Inked umbrella), etc. They don't necessarily have the funds to pay an illustrator, unlike AC, or don't feel they are putting out enough product to do so. These brands/designers will buy vector packs for their collections. I would actually really appreciate if some of these brands started commissioning illustrations from smaller illustrators who'd enjoy getting paid a bit more than a couple of vector packs for simple exclusive designs. This type of collab would really shed a positive light on that brand and not cost them too much. There are loads of struggling illustrators who have reasonable pricing and will meet deadlines + send proofs for you to approve (or reject) before delivering the final product/set of images. They could use social media to post highlights of the collaborative work. But again, if people don't know the practices of an industry, there's likely little incentive to step up one's "woke" game. 3. The illustrators like Steven Duncan who is a 2PR fave (and even hops in here sometimes to say hi). They actually "make" the whole thing except the fonts (which I don't find necessary in graphic design for SB since images are usually the main focus). Personally, I like to know how much the original artist has been paid for the contribution they've made to a SB line or kit before I buy it. I don't know exact salaries for AC in-house designers and such but they make a living from it and that's enough for me to know. When a popular kit or collection is heavily based on images that cost the brand 20 or so dollars to buy with a commercial license, I do stop and think to consider how much I am willing to pay for these products (digitally and/or as physical products), what other plus or minus points there are dealing with the brand (such as quality of paper and printing, customer service, etc.), how much time went into sourcing these vector packs (if I can find it in under 20 seconds by typing a couple of keywords, well, yeah), how original the overall theme is, and so on. Not everyone agrees with this approach and some will shrug and say that since these designers are selling their vector packs online with these licenses for such a low price, that's their decision and none of my business, etc. This simply doesn't sit well with my personality or values (or what I know from the major struggle of being a graphic designer these days). I like to look at the bigger picture to make fully informed decisions. However, I should have paused for a moment and put in a disclaimer when I posted the vector packs in the DD thread. That was my mistake. I genuinely didn't realise this would be a lift-the-veil moment for some scrapbookers on the board. I can see how this came as a bit of a shock. My bad. 100% agree with everything you say here. I'm glad you posted about it in the DD thread. I knew a little about how it worked but it's nice to be a better educated consumer. Thank you for sharing your expertise with us. I've thought about buying my own vector images so I'm directly support these artists and I need to just do it. I wish these brands would collaborate with the artists who's work they are purchasing.
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Post by lisacharlotte on Oct 7, 2019 17:33:56 GMT
I feel like this about basic craftyness. I don’t need to buy foam tape, I have so much scrap paper I can create my own dimension for free. But we all still buy foam tape. Nobody will sell 9x12 albums? Cut down a 12x12. We have endless supplies in our stash to finish the rough edges. All those dies from lawn dawn to make interactive cards? Reverse engineer or just google. These are OLD techniques that are now being rehashed. I find the more we look to others for inspiration the less creative we are. I scrapbook and make cards for the joy of the doing. I’m just as guilty of falling into this trap. The downside is, nothing looks original. Everything looks copied or scraplifted. I’m really trying to be more creative and original in my crafting. And if not that, at least figure out how to do it with what I have. I’m feeling overwhelmed with stuff.
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Deleted
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Mar 28, 2024 20:42:30 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Oct 7, 2019 22:43:14 GMT
Just like Ralph Lauren doesn’t actually sew the clothes and Candace Nelson doesn’t bake all the cupcakes.
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Post by powderhorngreen on Oct 7, 2019 23:56:58 GMT
I have worked as one of those "ghost" designers. However, was recently burned on a contract where I was to share in a % of sales. Turned out company lied about the number of units sold when calculation my share and how now fallen several months behind in paying me. The large companies often want you to work for pennies compared to other corporate graphic design work.
I have often thought about going directly to the consumer and creating svgs/cut files/ or graphics to meet a scrapbooker's specific needs. For example, want a mini album that will score and cut out all the components on your Cricut or Silhouette - I can create that for you - just send me your measurements or the tutorial you bought somewhere else and I can create all needed pieces ready to cut and assemble. Want it personalized with specialized cut-outs, edging, etc? I can design that for you. Want a digital patterned paper collection that meets your color, size, design needs? I can do that. Want to have a page with specific embellishments filled with a digital paper collection you chose - I can do that.
I LOVE the creative process and the designing. Unfortunately, I believe paper crafters are not willing to pay for my time to do it. So, I work behind the scenes and do sometimes flinch at the lack of recognition. Also, now restricting my contracted work to only a flat fee structure.
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Deleted
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Mar 28, 2024 20:42:30 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Oct 8, 2019 0:54:28 GMT
I have worked as one of those "ghost" designers. However, was recently burned on a contract where I was to share in a % of sales. Turned out company lied about the number of units sold when calculation my share and how now fallen several months behind in paying me. The large companies often want you to work for pennies compared to other corporate graphic design work. I have often thought about going directly to the consumer and creating svgs/cut files/ or graphics to meet a scrapbooker's specific needs. For example, want a mini album that will score and cut out all the components on your Cricut or Silhouette - I can create that for you - just send me your measurements or the tutorial you bought somewhere else and I can create all needed pieces ready to cut and assemble. Want it personalized with specialized cut-outs, edging, etc? I can design that for you. Want a digital patterned paper collection that meets your color, size, design needs? I can do that. Want to have a page with specific embellishments filled with a digital paper collection you chose - I can do that. I LOVE the creative process and the designing. Unfortunately, I believe paper crafters are not willing to pay for my time to do it. So, I work behind the scenes and do sometimes flinch at the lack of recognition. Also, now restricting my contracted work to only a flat fee structure. If the sales on sites like Ali Express and Wish are any indication, the average crafter doesn’t give a whit about originality or artistic integrity and they certainly are not willing to shell out the dollars to protect it.
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Post by joblackford on Oct 8, 2019 3:58:07 GMT
I know for myself, one of the reasons I was initially drawn to lines by the American Crafts designers was because they were scrapbookers themselves, so they designed things they would want to use. I'm not saying AC doesn't try to please scrapbookers on their non-designer lines, but when you're a consumer, you have a unique view you bring to the products you create. However, as these designers have stepped away from scrapbooking (Dear Lizzy, Maggie Holmes, Amy Tan), I've found their products less relevant. This is one of the reasons I love Shimelle. She designs for what she wants to use, and she shows how she actually uses it at least twice a week on her Fbk Live, and she loves the products for the same reasons most of her customers love the,. She doesn't always get to make the things she wants - she talks about how she asks for certain things but doesn't get them, either because they're not judged to be "on brand" for her (eg mixed media) or they're not good sellers. But she seems to be heavily involved in designing the collections even if she's not the one actually drawing the pictures on the papers.
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Post by joblackford on Oct 8, 2019 5:18:09 GMT
I like to look at the bigger picture to make fully informed decisions. However, I should have paused for a moment and put in a disclaimer when I posted the vector packs in the DD thread. That was my mistake. I genuinely didn't realise this would be a lift-the-veil moment for some scrapbookers on the board. I can see how this came as a bit of a shock. My bad. No need to apologize (to me, at least). I like to know how things work, and it had never occurred to me to think about who was doing the illustrating.
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