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Post by monklady123 on Oct 7, 2019 21:51:53 GMT
This made the news in Norway aswell, so the story is spreading. This woman is a coward and should woman up and face the consequences. I don't know much about diplomatic immunity, but why does it exist? Just seems like a free pass? Are there instances where diplomatic immunity makes sense? This is just a sad case. It also reminds me of cases where crimi als flee to countries with no extradtition agreement. Another rule I don't quite understand. If a person is wanted for murder, why would any country give them a safe haven? Are we not mostly in agreement that murder is bad, and people commiting them should face consequences? I'm sure there are political reasons here I don't know about, but it's just heartbreaking for the families left behind. I hope this young man's family will get some justice. Yes, diplomatic immunity is important....it protects our diplomats overseas. There are many countries -- obviously England is not one of those -- who wouldn't think twice about tossing an American in jail, or worse, simply because of us putting one of theirs in jail here for something. Someone with diplomatic immunity can be expelled from a country, and the other country usually reciprocates by expelling one of theirs. But in general diplomatic immunity protects American who work in countries like Russia (and the old Soviet Union), the Middle East, China...anywhere where laws are nebulous.
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RosieKat
Drama Llama
PeaJect #12
Posts: 5,372
Jun 25, 2014 19:28:04 GMT
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Post by RosieKat on Oct 8, 2019 0:08:11 GMT
Wrong, wrong, wrong. She needs to face up to what she's done. Just because you "can" have diplomatic immunity doesn't mean you should, and I hope that the US doesn't support her in this.
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Post by birukitty on Oct 8, 2019 1:10:37 GMT
I'm just hearing about this story on here but I do agree with all of you-she should come back to the U.K. and face the charges. I feel so horrible for the young man's parents. I can't imagine how they must be feeling.
I've driven in countries where you drive on the "wrong side" as we Americans say. In Japan and in St. John USVI. You pay attention constantly and remain vigilant. What was going on with this woman? Didn't she see the traffic coming at her-the motorcycle? Whatever the case she is clearly at fault but to then take off and escape to the USA-in my mind I just can't fathom myself ever doing such a thing. The guilt would eat me alive.
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Post by annabella on Oct 8, 2019 1:43:06 GMT
Growing up in the affluent suburbs of DC, I saw issues similar to this all the time. It was well known that if you were ever hit by a car with diplomatic plates, you were SOL. They would claim immunity and you had no recourse. It gave them a free pass to drive like complete idiots. My prom date's father was an Israeli diplomat and the stories they would tell! Same.
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Post by gar on Oct 8, 2019 7:35:08 GMT
I'm just hearing about this story on here but I do agree with all of you-she should come back to the U.K. and face the charges. I feel so horrible for the young man's parents. I can't imagine how they must be feeling. I've driven in countries where you drive on the "wrong side" as we Americans say. In Japan and in St. John USVI. You pay attention constantly and remain vigilant. What was going on with this woman? Didn't she see the traffic coming at her-the motorcycle? Whatever the case she is clearly at fault but to then take off and escape to the USA-in my mind I just can't fathom myself ever doing such a thing. The guilt would eat me alive. I think I heard a report that there is cctv footage of her leaving the Base and she's driving on the wrong side of the road. She then travels a few hundred yards before hitting the young man because crucially it was on the brow of a hill so they wouldn't have seen each other coming until impact was inevitable sadly. It was quite a quiet road so obviously she didn't see any other traffic before the collision.
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Deleted
Posts: 0
Apr 20, 2024 0:23:13 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Oct 8, 2019 9:27:11 GMT
I'm just hearing about this story on here but I do agree with all of you-she should come back to the U.K. and face the charges. I feel so horrible for the young man's parents. I can't imagine how they must be feeling. I've driven in countries where you drive on the "wrong side" as we Americans say. In Japan and in St. John USVI. You pay attention constantly and remain vigilant. What was going on with this woman? Didn't she see the traffic coming at her-the motorcycle? Whatever the case she is clearly at fault but to then take off and escape to the USA-in my mind I just can't fathom myself ever doing such a thing. The guilt would eat me alive. I think I heard a report that there is cctv footage of her leaving the Base and she's driving on the wrong side of the road. She then travels a few hundred yards before hitting the young man because crucially it was on the brow of a hill so they wouldn't have seen each other coming until impact was inevitable sadly. It was quite a quiet road so obviously she didn't see any other traffic before the collision. And the entrance/exit is clearly marked with a bollard separating the two. So there is no excuse if she was driving on the left side of that bollard to exit IMO. According to other reports they had spent 3 years in Australia prior to the UK. Australia also drive on the left and I would guess in three years she would have driven there too. It wasn't as if she hadn't ever driven on a different side. Pure carelessness on her part.
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wellway
Prolific Pea
Posts: 8,759
Jun 25, 2014 20:50:09 GMT
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Post by wellway on Oct 8, 2019 11:06:15 GMT
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Post by shevy on Oct 8, 2019 11:59:54 GMT
Where is she now? Is there any news local to her that’s putting pressure on her?
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Deleted
Posts: 0
Apr 20, 2024 0:23:13 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Oct 9, 2019 7:46:31 GMT
Yes, he did name her when they interviewed him about it but her name was all over the media reports well before that interview with him. So he wasn't the first to name her. The info could have come from anywhere. There were witnesses at the scene, her children had already registered at school here. There were ways and means for the media including social media to find out who she was by name as very often they do in many cases. I don't see anything wrong in her being named. Diplomatic immunity doesn't give you the right to anonymity especially when it was so obvious that you had committed a crime by the evidence at the scene.
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Post by elaine on Oct 9, 2019 11:40:46 GMT
We should send her back to England to face the legal system. There is no doubt, in my mind. I also agree that diplomatic immunity is very important, however, in a case like this where the diplomat committed manslaughter, and isn’t denying it, we as a country should waive it.
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Post by gar on Oct 9, 2019 11:56:48 GMT
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Deleted
Posts: 0
Apr 20, 2024 0:23:13 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Oct 9, 2019 16:05:26 GMT
We should send her back to England to face the legal system. There is no doubt, in my mind. I also agree that diplomatic immunity is very important, however, in a case like this where the diplomat committed manslaughter, and isn’t denying it, we as a country should waive it. I wouldn't come under manslaughter in this country. A bone of contention to those that have lost loved ones who want the charge to be different to the charge of causing death by careless driving with a maximum penalty of 5 years in prison. I have to admit I agree with them. It's rather lenient for anyone that has taken the life of another through carelessness not just in this case but all cases.
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Post by pierkiss on Oct 9, 2019 16:08:34 GMT
I think the provisions for diplomatic immunity need revision. I don’t think one should get an automatic pass if their actions resulted in the death of someone else.
She needs to get butt back over there and face her consequences she killed that poor boy. Accept the consequences for your actions, or fight them. But don’t just run away like a coward and hide under the diplomatic immunity umbrella.
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freebird
Drama Llama
'cause I'm free as a bird now
Posts: 6,927
Jun 25, 2014 20:06:48 GMT
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Post by freebird on Oct 9, 2019 16:11:46 GMT
I understand why she's running, she's scared. easy as that.
I think diplomatic immunity is bullshit 99% of the time.
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Post by elaine on Oct 9, 2019 16:13:47 GMT
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Post by gar on Oct 9, 2019 16:32:00 GMT
I wasn't being facetious elaine (if you thought I was). I didn't know that DI can be extended to relatives
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valincal
Drama Llama
Southern Alberta
Posts: 5,620
Jun 27, 2014 2:21:22 GMT
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Post by valincal on Oct 9, 2019 16:45:20 GMT
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Post by gillyp on Oct 9, 2019 16:50:34 GMT
I read yesterday that this lady has been fined in the States for careless driving, many years ago. She admitted it then, too.
I get she’s scared, I would be. I’d also be worrying about how it would affect my family but I’d like to think I’d do the morally correct thing and face the consequences. Someone else’s family is in a position they will never get the opportunity to recover from.
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Post by bc2ca on Oct 9, 2019 17:01:40 GMT
Where is she now? Is there any news local to her that’s putting pressure on her? She is in hiding from the looks of it. Based on news reports, their Virginia home is rented out.
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Post by gar on Oct 9, 2019 17:09:57 GMT
Where is she now? Is there any news local to her that’s putting pressure on her? She is in hiding from the looks of it. Based on news reports, their Virginia home is rented out. How long can she hide for? I wonder what the legal restrictions are...
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Post by bc2ca on Oct 9, 2019 17:18:01 GMT
She is in hiding from the looks of it. Based on news reports, their Virginia home is rented out. How long can she hide for? I wonder what the legal restrictions are... Hiding from the media. I'm sure they are under instructions/guidance/protection from the State Department and/or the intelligence agencey her DH works for as they decide their next step. I doubt there are any legal restrictions if the extradition requests were denied.
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Post by gar on Oct 9, 2019 17:37:16 GMT
How long can she hide for? I wonder what the legal restrictions are... Hiding from the media. I'm sure they are under instructions/guidance/protection from the State Department and/or the intelligence agencey her DH works for as they decide their next step. I doubt there are any legal restrictions if the extradition requests were denied. I'm sure they are getting advice. If she's not extradited, she'll have to come out from hiding at some point won't she?
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Post by elaine on Oct 9, 2019 18:41:24 GMT
I wasn't being facetious elaine (if you thought I was). I didn't know that DI can be extended to relatives We’re good. I knew that it works similar to the military, where even though my husband was the one who served in the Navy, I (and our kids) were and are granted about 90% of all the privileges he was/is. So, in many ways, even though he was the one wearing the uniform, we were counted as being a military family (loosely being in the military). So, even though she wasn’t the official diplomat from the USA, due the fact that she is married to one, she is treated as a diplomat herself in a variety of things here. I knew that and should’ve been more clear/specific in my previous post.
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Post by elaine on Oct 9, 2019 18:46:40 GMT
How long can she hide for? I wonder what the legal restrictions are... Hiding from the media. I'm sure they are under instructions/guidance/protection from the State Department and/or the intelligence agencey her DH works for as they decide their next step. I doubt there are any legal restrictions if the extradition requests were denied. I agree. No legal restrictions, but I would guess strongly worded advice. Unless they give her another identity and relocate them, she will have ruined her family’s lives if she doesn’t go back to England. She, and they, will be hounded by the press. For her (not her children), rightfully so. Since she apparently doesn’t care about the family she ruined in England by killing their son, one can only hope that she isn’t selfish enough to ruin her own children’s futures by taking the coward’s way out.
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Post by gar on Oct 9, 2019 18:57:09 GMT
I wasn't being facetious elaine (if you thought I was). I didn't know that DI can be extended to relatives We’re good. I knew that it works similar to the military, where even though my husband was the one who served in the Navy, I (and our kids) were and are granted about 90% of all the privileges he was/is. So, in many ways, even though he was the one wearing the uniform, we were counted as being a military family (loosely being in the military). So, even though she wasn’t the official diplomat from the USA, due the fact that she is married to one, she is treated as a diplomat herself in a variety of things here. I knew that and should’ve been more clear/specific in my previous post.
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Deleted
Posts: 0
Apr 20, 2024 0:23:13 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Oct 9, 2019 19:45:40 GMT
I will tell you that as an ex-pat living here in Morocco, I was told very early on that if an ex-pat hit someone with their car that caused a death, that they should drive directly to the airport and leave the country. Not joking. This has been told to me several times by many different ex-pats.
A couple of years ago, I knew someone, not a close friend, that worked at the American Embassy here. He got into some type of physical altercation with a Moroccan. It was my understanding that HE was the aggressor and really beat this guy up. The Embassy employee was gone the next day. No one knew exactly what happened, they just knew that he was no longer at the Embassy and no longer in the country.
Not sure what would happen now as we currently have no Ambassador or even Deputy here. Since Trump fired many of those people at the beginning of his Presidency, we have not had a replacement here.
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Post by pierkiss on Oct 9, 2019 19:54:13 GMT
I will tell you that as an ex-pat living here in Morocco, I was told very early on that if an ex-pat hit someone with their car that caused a death, that they should drive directly to the airport and leave the country. Not joking. This has been told to me several times by many different ex-pats. A couple of years ago, I knew someone, not a close friend, that worked at the American Embassy here. He got into some type of physical altercation with a Moroccan. It was my understanding that HE was the aggressor and really beat this guy up. The Embassy employee was gone the next day. No one knew exactly what happened, they just knew that he was no longer at the Embassy and no longer in the country. Not sure what would happen now as we currently have no Ambassador or even Deputy here. Since Trump fired many of those people at the beginning of his Presidency, we have not had a replacement here. Wow! That is shocking to me!
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Post by uksue on Oct 9, 2019 20:31:27 GMT
She and her husband both have a history of serious driving offences .
Immunity can be revoked in those circumstances ( officially immunity shouldn’t be given where there is a history of serious driving offences ) without setting an uncomfortable precedent. Also the US is quick to expect other countries to offer up people to face justice but don’t seem to want to reciprocate .
I cannot imagine their lives aren’t going to be destroyed by their decision to flee- their poor kids. I reserve most sympathy for the victims twin brother and parents however 😪
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Post by katlady on Oct 9, 2019 20:32:22 GMT
Trump just talked about in his news conference. They are going to talk to her and get her side of the story. But Trump kept emphasizing that this was an accident and we all have accidents. I bet nothing will happen to her. I remember a case a few years back where a relative of a diplomat was in an accident (maybe fatal?) and he flew back to the Middle East to escape prosecution. If you commit a crime you should be held responsible even if you have DI!
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Post by gillyp on Oct 9, 2019 21:05:14 GMT
But Trump kept emphasizing that this was an accident and we all have accidents! Yes, accidents happpen, Mr Trump. In this instance it’s known as a road traffic accident and the one found to be at fault should expect to pay the consequences. It’s what adults do. Nothing’s going to happen, is it.
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