cycworker
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 4,375 
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Post by cycworker on Nov 21, 2019 6:48:16 GMT
I didn't vote in the poll because I'm Canadian & I don't want to skew your results (even though this group isn't necessarily a representative sample anyway).
I think folks would be wise to listen to Obama, who made the point that yours isn't a country that is populated with enough people who want to just throw the system upside down in fell swoop. For me, that rules out Bernie & Warren. I love Warren on fiscal stuff, but the thing people love the most - the wealth tax - will never fly. If she can get it through Congress it'll go to the SCOTUS & it will die. And frankly, she's alienated a lot of voters, particularly people of colour.
Tulsi Gabbard likes Assad. She's another Trump. It would be a terrible risk to support her. She's a Russian asset.
Buttigieg can't win... he's too in experienced & yours is a country that is more likely to vote for a woman than a gay man right now. Plus he's said negative things about Obama & Hillary & can't get traction with black voters, especially women.
Biden is still a toss up to me.
Klobuchar can't beat Trump.
I don't get why people are saying they either dislike Harris or they think she can't win. She's fantastic. And she scares the crap out of Trump, which in and of itself ought to be enough to make everyone vote for her.
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Post by bc2ca on Nov 21, 2019 7:12:50 GMT
Amy Klobuchar is my favorite, but I will vote for anyone but Trump. I know that a lot of people say, "I like xx but don't know if xx is able to beat Trump." I am curious how many people will vote for their favorite candidate in the primaries vs those who will vote for the person they think is more likely to beat Trump (based on media and current polls). So many don't have the full slate of candidates to vote from when their primaries come up so it really may not matter who their favorite is now. There will be a few that drop out before Mar 3 and after that only 3-4 will still be in the race. |
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Post by bc2ca on Nov 21, 2019 7:21:06 GMT
Buttigieg can't win... he's too in experienced & yours is a country that is more likely to vote for a woman than a gay man right now. Sadly, I think there is a large demographic that would vote for a gay white man over any woman in this country. Let's just say it's complicated. Right now I'm more Pete, Kamala or Amy but will support whoever ends up with the nomination. I will be holding my nose for Sanders or Biden. |
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Post by dewryce on Nov 21, 2019 9:20:46 GMT
I read something about her getting skewered on social media by the bots. Some journalist, a Republican IIRC, mentioned that she could say nice things about most of the Democratic candidates and it was fine. But when it was Kamala she was bombarded by hate and bots in her comments. At the time I started looking around and did come across a lot of suspicious accounts. So that may have had some impact.
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Post by monklady123 on Nov 21, 2019 10:19:44 GMT
Personally I like Pete Buttigieg, but as others have said he doesn't have the non-white vote. I also like Cory Booker... he and Buttigieg would make a good pair. If I had to pick one who I wish was *the* Democratic candidate right now I'd say Elizabeth Warren. But honestly, whoever is on the ballot with a "D" by their name gets my vote. I'm just praying to all the politics gods that it isn't Bernie or Tulsi. Bernie needs to just go away. ugh. And Tulsi...well just nope. I know I'd just have to suck it up and vote for either of them rather than just not vote -- I mean, "just not voting" is what got trump in in the first place. But I so hope the Democrats won't be so stupid as to put either of them in. I need that bumper stick that someone mentioned...."Vote Blue, Doesn't Matter Who"....  |
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Post by Skellinton on Nov 21, 2019 13:21:34 GMT
Can I ask why Buttigieg doesn’t appeal to black voters? Even my mom brought that up, which must mean it is pretty common knowledge. I keep hearing that too, but I don’t know why that is?
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Post by Merge on Nov 21, 2019 13:56:29 GMT
Can I ask why Buttigieg doesn’t appeal to black voters? Even my mom brought that up, which must mean it is pretty common knowledge. I keep hearing that too, but I don’t know why that is? The issue is complex. This article explores what some people are thinking. It focuses on the social conservatism of religious black voters, particularly older ones. What I hear from my friends of color locally is that they're interested in a candidate who wants to fundamentally change the political system that has allowed someone like Trump to come to power, and the economic system that allows a small minority of people to hoard wealth while increasing numbers live on the streets, die for want of decent health care, etc. They're not interested in small steps and half-measures. (I hear the same thing from progressive white women in my circle, for what it's worth.) |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Nov 21, 2019 14:31:45 GMT
I don't get why people are saying they either dislike Harris or they think she can't win. She's fantastic. And she scares the crap out of Trump, which in and of itself ought to be enough to make everyone vote for her. Here is why I don't like her: 1. Does she have any knowledge about the IDEA Act? Or Special Education? It is funded. BUT the problem comes down to how much each district is given as far as funds. Districts are penalized if they go over a specific set cap for IEPs. Our cap is 12% of students. We are at 16%. Guess what? We get punished. So less funding. You'd think we would get more. 2. Her ideas on education are far from realistic. *Here in Ca she is trying to extend school hours in inner city districts to match parent work hours. Has she not done research and looked around at how many districts already have FREE before and after school care? It will be a waste of money. 3. Free college. Again no one is forcing you to go to college or a really expensive one at that! You choose to go to a $20-40,000 a year university, YOU pay for it. Start at a Jr college then transfer. 4. Medical for all. Ugh. Enough already. Yes our system is broken but it will be even more so with medical for all. 5. Her ideas on disabilities are also skewed. She has all these grand ideas when in reality they are either currently in place or won't work. |
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Post by Merge on Nov 21, 2019 14:45:54 GMT
I don't get why people are saying they either dislike Harris or they think she can't win. She's fantastic. And she scares the crap out of Trump, which in and of itself ought to be enough to make everyone vote for her. Here is why I don't like her: 1. Does she have any knowledge about the IDEA Act? Or Special Education? It is funded. BUT the problem comes down to how much each district is given as far as funds. Districts are penalized if they go over a specific set cap for IEPs. Our cap is 12% of students. We are at 16%. Guess what? We get punished. So less funding. You'd think we would get more. 2. Her ideas on education are far from realistic. *Here in Ca she is trying to extend school hours in inner city districts to match parent work hours. Has she not done research and looked around at how many districts already have FREE before and after school care? It will be a waste of money. 3. Free college. Again no one is forcing you to go to college or a really expensive one at that! You choose to go to a $20-40,000 a year university, YOU pay for it. Start at a Jr college then transfer. 4. Medical for all. Ugh. Enough already. Yes our system is broken but it will be even more so with medical for all. 5. Her ideas on disabilities are also skewed. She has all these grand ideas when in reality they are either currently in place or won't work. I'm not defending Harris specifically, but just to offer additional information on some of these. 2. My understanding of her extended school day program is that it is to provide funding for wraparound care for schools that don't already have it and/or to pay for care for low-income families who can't afford the school's paid before and after care. (I'm curious as to how CA schools manage FREE before and after care. Here in TX, these programs cost money to families. Someone has to pay the people who staff them, unless we're to start requiring teachers to work 12-hour days without additional pay.) 3. No one is forcing you to go to college, but a professional career pretty much requires a college degree. The cost of college has drastically outpaced most families' ability to save for it, and working your way through is not financially possible in most areas. Even $20-40K per year is well beyond the reach of middle and working class families, and taking out loans for those amounts ensures a young worker who cannot afford to buy a house or raise a family and whose spending power is significantly less, significantly affecting our economy in the long run. The children of the wealthy will soon be the only ones who can afford an education that allows them a white-collar career. The rich will continue to get richer and middle class incomes will slide, and we'll especially suffer a shortage of people willing to go into careers that require a degree but don't pay as much, like teaching. I don't think there's a simple answer to all this, but if I may say so, "just don't go to college if you can't afford it" is a pretty privileged position to take. 4. What is your evidence that Medicare for All would create a "more broken" system? Personally, I think this is a truism pushed by the medicine for profit system. Single-payer operates very effectively in many developed countries. |
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Post by cme37 on Nov 21, 2019 14:48:01 GMT
I like Amy. I don't think she has a chance unfortunately though. She isn't getting the press coverage. Pete has been able to gain such traction because he has had press. I like Pete, but I think he would be better as a VP. Get some experience and come back in 8 years and get the presidency.
My top choice would be and Amy/Pete ticket. Followed by a Kamala/Pete ticket. I do like Joe, but his age is a concern for me. I would really like someone younger. I could also get behind a Joe/Amy ticket. I think if the top of the ticket ends up being a man, the VP has to be a woman. Has to be.
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Post by withapea on Nov 21, 2019 15:36:55 GMT
Warren is my top pick, the only one I'd have serious issues voting for is Gabbard. I like several of the other candidates, they're just not my top picks, a few I'm very meh or not really into but I'd vote for them over the current White House Resident in a heartbeat. In the primary I'm voting for who I want to win.
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Sarah*H
Pearl Clutcher
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Post by Sarah*H on Nov 21, 2019 15:44:12 GMT
I am trying to remain uncommitted because I will enthusiastically support any of these candidates other than Tulsi Gabbard.
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Post by ntsf on Nov 21, 2019 15:47:46 GMT
well, in San Francisco, where harris is from.. I have never heard of free before/after school care. even the parks program have small fees. and I have never heard of a cap put on number of kids who are designated as disabled in our district (and my kid with disabilities has been through the system in town and I spent lots of time with lawyers...) most politicians have not a clue about people and kids with disabilities and the difficulties they have getting any services.
many are against here due to her being a prosecutor and not going for maximum punishment for someone who killed a cop. I think.
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Post by hmp on Nov 21, 2019 15:49:05 GMT
At this point I’m pretty much a “anyone but an old white guy” supporter.
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Post by lucyg on Nov 21, 2019 16:40:51 GMT
I don't get why people are saying they either dislike Harris or they think she can't win. She's fantastic. And she scares the crap out of Trump, which in and of itself ought to be enough to make everyone vote for her. Here is why I don't like her: 1. Does she have any knowledge about the IDEA Act? Or Special Education? It is funded. BUT the problem comes down to how much each district is given as far as funds. Districts are penalized if they go over a specific set cap for IEPs. Our cap is 12% of students. We are at 16%. Guess what? We get punished. So less funding. You'd think we would get more. OMG, I know nothing about this but that sounds ridiculous. Taking money away from districts with more special needs students? OMG2. Her ideas on education are far from realistic. *Here in Ca she is trying to extend school hours in inner city districts to match parent work hours. Has she not done research and looked around at how many districts already have FREE before and after school care? It will be a waste of money. 3. Free college. Again no one is forcing you to go to college or a really expensive one at that! You choose to go to a $20-40,000 a year university, YOU pay for it. Start at a Jr college then transfer. I don’t know all the ins and outs of these plans and I’m not necessarily in favor of free college for all ... but I was under the impression the idea was free community college plus free state university ... not all-free all-the-time any college you want to attend.4. Medical for all. Ugh. Enough already. Yes our system is broken but it will be even more so with medical for all. Making sure everyone has accessible medical care is GOOD for society and GOOD for the economy. It’s also the right, humane thing for all of us. Sure, there will be bumps along the way, but the result will be much, much better in the long run. Now, maybe her plan for it isn’t good, I don’t know ... but I 100% believe the basic idea of accessible, affordable health care for all is where we should be headed. If the rest of the civilized world can manage it, so can we.5. Her ideas on disabilities are also skewed. She has all these grand ideas when in reality they are either currently in place or won't work. Kamala Harris is local to me. She grew up in the same city I did. I don’t know her personally, but I know several people who have worked for her in her various offices, and none of them like her. They say she is a disorganized and ineffective manager. Lots of talk, not so much action. These are people who are Democrats. It’s not political. I would still vote for her against Trump, but I’m not enthusiastic about her. |
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scrapngranny
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Post by scrapngranny on Nov 21, 2019 16:45:53 GMT
My biggest concern is electability. I am still undecided about a personal favorite, but at this point whoever checks off all my personal boxes isn’t as important as who can attract Republicans who no longer like Trump and Dems who voted for Trump because they would not vote for Hillary.
My biggest hope is that Hillary will stay at home and play with her grandchildren and not campaign for the Democratic candidate. She has way too much baggage to be helpful.
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Judy26
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MOTFY Bitchy Nursemaid
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Post by Judy26 on Nov 21, 2019 16:46:11 GMT
Buttigieg does not have the support of non-white voters. Regardless of what anyone here thinks of him, I don't think he will pull the votes from people of color that we need. I also think he'll get skewered on experience. He's been the mayor of a fairly small city and won that office with 8,500 votes. Not BY 8,500 votes, but with 8,500 total votes. He has no large-scale executive experience, no experience with DC coalition building, no foreign policy experience. He's not ready for prime time. I wish he'd run for Congress instead. I'll reiterate my earlier statement that I strongly wish our primary system didn't rely on two states that skew heavily white and rural for the first two rounds. Democratic voters are concentrated in cities, and a large number of them are not white. I've made my preference for a more progressive candidate known here. I still like Warren and think she can win. I'd like to see Julian Castro as her running mate. But I'll walk over hot coals to vote for whoever is the Democratic nominee and get Trump out of office. (Unless it's Tulsi. Then I'd have to, I don't know, build a bridge over the coals or something. Much less enthusiasm.) This saved me a lot of typing. |
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Post by mom on Nov 21, 2019 16:49:09 GMT
I do not like Harris, Biden, Warren, or Sanders..and most likely would add Tulsi to this list. I WILL NOT vote for them in the primary. Period. In the primary, I will vote for who I think is the best choice as I see it, whether they will win or not. (this was to answer iamkristinl16 question about if people would vote their favorite candidate in the primary or just who can win). |
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Post by ntsf on Nov 21, 2019 16:53:12 GMT
also, I know someone who is really in deep with ca democratic politics. was headhunted from presidential politics.. did not choose to work for harris.. chose to work for cory.
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moodyblue
Drama Llama
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Post by moodyblue on Nov 21, 2019 17:01:59 GMT
Here is why I don't like her: 1. Does she have any knowledge about the IDEA Act? Or Special Education? It is funded. BUT the problem comes down to how much each district is given as far as funds. Districts are penalized if they go over a specific set cap for IEPs. Our cap is 12% of students. We are at 16%. Guess what? We get punished. So less funding. You'd think we would get more. OMG, I know nothing about this but that sounds ridiculous. Taking money away from districts with more special needs students? OMG2. Her ideas on education are far from realistic. *Here in Ca she is trying to extend school hours in inner city districts to match parent work hours. Has she not done research and looked around at how many districts already have FREE before and after school care? It will be a waste of money. 3. Free college. Again no one is forcing you to go to college or a really expensive one at that! You choose to go to a $20-40,000 a year university, YOU pay for it. Start at a Jr college then transfer. I don’t know all the ins and outs of these plans and I’m not necessarily in favor of free college for all ... but I was under the impression the idea was free community college plus free state university ... not all-free all-the-time any college you want to attend.4. Medical for all. Ugh. Enough already. Yes our system is broken but it will be even more so with medical for all. Making sure everyone has accessible medical care is GOOD for society and GOOD for the economy. It’s also the right, humane thing for all of us. Sure, there will be bumps along the way, but the result will be much, much better in the long run. Now, maybe her plan for it isn’t good, I don’t know ... but I 100% believe the basic idea of accessible, affordable health care for all is where we should be headed. If the rest of the civilized world can manage it, so can we.5. Her ideas on disabilities are also skewed. She has all these grand ideas when in reality they are either currently in place or won't work. Kamala Harris is local to me. She grew up in the same city I did. I don’t know her personally, but I know several people who have worked for her in her various offices, and none of them like her. They say she is a disorganized and ineffective manager. Lots of talk, not so much action. These are people who are Democrats. It’s not political. I would still vote for her against Trump, but I’m not enthusiastic about her. There is talk that she doesn’t have a great organization and that's part of why she isn’t doing so well in Iowa. She can talk a good game, but I’m not sure about the follow-up. I'm watching Booker again because some people are listing him as one of the people who did well in last nights debate - BUT, he seemed impressive several years ago when he first came on the national scene, only to kind of get the reputation of being all talk and no action, and of just liking the spotlight a lot. I’m still not sure what to think of him. He may be another who can talk the good talk but not follow through. I really don’t get Tulsi Gabbard, and why she is still in the race. She has no chance at all of winning |
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Post by mom on Nov 21, 2019 17:06:52 GMT
I'm watching Booker again because some people are listing him as one of the people who did well in last nights debate - BUT, he seemed impressive several years ago when he first came on the national scene, only to kind of get the reputation of being all talk and no action, and of just liking the spotlight a lot. I’m still not sure what to think of him. He may be another who can talk the good talk but not follow through. I really don’t get Tulsi Gabbard, and why she is still in the race. She has no chance at all of winning I am going to look more into Booker. I missed last nights debate but I do recall thinking he did really well in one of the previous debates. |
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Post by Merge on Nov 21, 2019 17:19:29 GMT
I'm watching Booker again because some people are listing him as one of the people who did well in last nights debate - BUT, he seemed impressive several years ago when he first came on the national scene, only to kind of get the reputation of being all talk and no action, and of just liking the spotlight a lot. I’m still not sure what to think of him. He may be another who can talk the good talk but not follow through. I really don’t get Tulsi Gabbard, and why she is still in the race. She has no chance at all of winning I am going to look more into Booker. I missed last nights debate but I do recall thinking he did really well in one of the previous debates. His vocal support for using public money to fund privately owned charter schools makes him a no for me. If he'd change his mind on that issue, I'd look harder at him. Most mainstream Democrats have realized that the promise of "school choice" didn't pan out, and has disproportionately hurt poor children of color. |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Nov 21, 2019 18:13:26 GMT
I am going to look more into Booker. I missed last nights debate but I do recall thinking he did really well in one of the previous debates. His vocal support for using public money to fund privately owned charter schools makes him a no for me. If he'd change his mind on that issue, I'd look harder at him. Most mainstream Democrats have realized that the promise of "school choice" didn't pan out, and has disproportionately hurt poor children of color. Funny you should bring that up. Let me tell you a story that has bugged me for years. In Marin County, just north of San Francisco, there is the Sausalito Marin City School District. There are 2 schools in this district, one in Marin City and one in Sausalito that is a charter school. That’s it, just these 2 schools. Marin City is comprised mostly of housing that was built in the 1940’s as temporary housing for the men that were building ships for WWII and their families. After the war the housing became public housing mostly occupied by black folks. Sausalito is perched on the side of a hill with killer views of the San Francisco Bay. Expensive. Very expensive. These two towns are separated by Hwy 101. Aka as the tracks A couple of years ago it came to light that the Sausalito Marin City School District was funneling most of the money the State was giving them to the charter school and shortchanging the Marin City school to the point they barely had qualified teachers. The reason they were able to do this was because there were parents on the School Board who’s kids went to the charter school. And so they dictated where the money went. Their kid’s school. The State is just now getting this straightened out. The state had to go to court to do it. The AG accused the school district of deliberately creating a segregated school in Marin City which violates the states anti-discrimination laws. The AG said the school district’s former board of trustees deliberately diverted staff and resources to the Sausalito school while depriving those resources from the Marin City school starting in 2013. The bad news is fixing this mess is going to be done over a 5 year period. I’m surprised the state didn’t have some sort of oversight on how the money is being split between the schools in a district. The fact they had to go to court to fix this says there is some work that needs to be done in how funds are allocated to the individual schools. |
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Post by littlemama on Nov 21, 2019 18:17:49 GMT
I still like Buttigieg and Warren.
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Post by Merge on Nov 21, 2019 18:21:13 GMT
His vocal support for using public money to fund privately owned charter schools makes him a no for me. If he'd change his mind on that issue, I'd look harder at him. Most mainstream Democrats have realized that the promise of "school choice" didn't pan out, and has disproportionately hurt poor children of color. Funny you should bring that up. Let me tell you a story that has bugged me for years. In Marin County, just north of San Francisco, there is the Sausalito Marin City School District. There are 2 schools in this district, one in Marin City and one in Sausalito that is a charter school. That’s it, just these 2 schools. Marin City is comprised mostly of housing that was built in the 1940’s as temporary housing for the men that were building ships for WWII and their families. After the war the housing became public housing mostly occupied by black folks. Sausalito is perched on the side of a hill with killer views of the San Francisco Bay. Expensive. Very expensive. These two towns are separated by Hwy 101. Aka as the tracks A couple of years ago it came to light that the Sausalito Marin City School District was funneling most of the money the State was giving them to the charter school and shortchanging the Marin City school to the point they barely had qualified teachers. The reason they were able to do this was because there were parents on the School Board who’s kids went to the charter school. And so they dictated where the money went. Their kid’s school. The State is just now getting this straightened out. The state had to go to court to do it. The AG accused the school district of deliberately creating a segregated school in Marin City which violates the states anti-discrimination laws. The AG said the school district’s former board of trustees deliberately diverted staff and resources to the Sausalito school while depriving those resources from the Marin City school starting in 2013. The bad news is fixing this mess is going to be done over a 5 year period. I’m surprised the state didn’t have some sort of oversight on how the money is being split between the schools in a district. The fact they had to go to court to fix this says there is some work that needs to be done in how funds are allocated to the individual schools. Absolutely. And of course, this is a state issue generally. But states that fund charter schools often exercise less regulatory oversight over them than they do over public schools, ostensibly to allow "innovation." The reality is that people often take advantage. |
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Post by mom on Nov 21, 2019 18:23:18 GMT
I am going to look more into Booker. I missed last nights debate but I do recall thinking he did really well in one of the previous debates. His vocal support for using public money to fund privately owned charter schools makes him a no for me. If he'd change his mind on that issue, I'd look harder at him. Most mainstream Democrats have realized that the promise of "school choice" didn't pan out, and has disproportionately hurt poor children of color. ahh yes. That was what it was. I thought there was a big no for an issue for me and I couldn't recall. Thanks for the reminder. That is a big issue I don't agree with...like you, he'd have to move from that. |
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Post by pierogi on Nov 21, 2019 19:17:20 GMT
Anyone who's not a Russian stooge is fine by me.
Warren is my first choice. Mayor Pete is my second. I'm voting Blue no matter who. It's going to take generations to rebuild trust with our allies again.
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The Great Carpezio
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Post by The Great Carpezio on Nov 21, 2019 19:56:50 GMT
Like most, I would vote for anyone but Trump, but I would say, Pete and Amy would be my top choices. Kamala, Joe, Elizabeth...in that order.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 21, 2019 20:00:27 GMT
I am not a Dem, but if I had to vote for someone on the list it would Tulsi Gabbard. She fits the age range I would like to see in a President and I appreciate her foreign policy views through her veteran experience.
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cycworker
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Post by cycworker on Nov 21, 2019 20:41:22 GMT
Buttigieg can't win... he's too in experienced & yours is a country that is more likely to vote for a woman than a gay man right now. Sadly, I think there is a large demographic that would vote for a gay white man over any woman in this country. Let's just say it's complicated. Right now I'm more Pete, Kamala or Amy but will support whoever ends up with the nomination. I will be holding my nose for Sanders or Biden. That kinda makes sense re: gay white male vs a woman. My concern is Republicans voting in the Democratic primary to skew who the nominee is, thus helping Trump. That is the one thing I really don't get about US politics. In Canada, only official, paid members of a party can choose candidates. I joined my party of choice because I wanted a say in our nominees. Constituency associations bring members together to choose their delegates & we determine who we want our reps to support on the first ballot. |
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