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Post by Deleted on Dec 6, 2019 14:18:58 GMT
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The Great Carpezio
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Post by The Great Carpezio on Dec 6, 2019 14:22:18 GMT
The child should pack his own lunch The OP's kids might be able to do so, but chances are there are a lot of kids in this district that don't have the ability to do so and count on that meal for their nutrition. By speaking out, the OP might be helping a lot of kids less fortunate. And that was part of my motivation in encouraging her to do so. That is why I decided to email the principal. I actually did mention it at the last PTA-type meeting. This school hasn’t had an active group, so they only meet three times a year. We are trying to build it back up. The last meeting there were no admin there. I mentioned it at the end of the meeting, but I didn’t hear back. I wanted to make sure he knew and was at least looking into it or wanted to know his perspective. My kids go to a very diverse school with many first generation and immigrant students and a pretty high poverty rate.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 6, 2019 14:25:45 GMT
The child should pack his own lunch and buy his own book and do his own work. If he has a list of the vocab words, why does he need anything else? What exactly do you think the teacher needs to provide as review materials? No, I would not talk to the school about any of these whiny, ridiculous complaints. I must teach in a very different district than some of you. Our kids get their own books. We don’t have kids buy books. We strive for all kids to have equal access to our resources. Ours kids have teachers who try to be innovative and use best practices. Our students are advised to check out a book at the school library, or one of multiple public libraries. They are also given access on line to the book. But most just buy the actual book, like I do.
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The Great Carpezio
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Post by The Great Carpezio on Dec 6, 2019 14:26:03 GMT
I’ll have to check those with his lists. That would be awesome if they matchup up. None of the Quizlets matched, so we made our own.
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Post by pierkiss on Dec 6, 2019 14:28:18 GMT
I would for sure contact the school and voice complaints every single time my kid told me there wasn’t enough food to feed all of the students. That is completely unacceptable.
I might consider talking to the teacher about the vocabulary. Is there a reason the book cannot come home with the students? Do you have the old crossword puzzles to use to make flash cards for the vocab words? I would be tempted to buy the book. But also I would be angry that I had to buy a book when my child has access to the book at school. Why isn’t the teacher providing lists of words and definitions, or making the students create their own vocab lists in a notebook that they can bring home? This is irritating me just thinking about the insane amount of words and little to no access to a resource to study for such a ridiculous test.
(I had a biology teacher in high school. He had us do a unit on tree/leaf identification. We were supposed to study tree parts for about 2 weeks. We got 2 days. No study guides were given, and this info wasn’t in the text book. No way to study for it (in the 90s, w/o google 😜). Then we had a massive practical exam where we had to ID the tree from the leaf or bark. Surprise surprise, everyone FAILED! Progress reports went out the next week, and literally every student in every section of that mans class was failing biology. Even the super smart kids. Parents were LIVID, and they had a massive rush for conferences. He was reprimanded, and our grades were dropped and adjusted. I hated that teacher so much. He took it out on us. My revenge was to ace every single thing he threw at us from that moment on. He hated me. He used to throw my perfect papers at me when he handed them back to us. I cannot stand teachers that expect amazing things out of students when they haven’t taken the time to properly teach them the material they want them to learn).
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Post by jeremysgirl on Dec 6, 2019 14:28:29 GMT
The OP's kids might be able to do so, but chances are there are a lot of kids in this district that don't have the ability to do so and count on that meal for their nutrition. By speaking out, the OP might be helping a lot of kids less fortunate. And that was part of my motivation in encouraging her to do so. That is why I decided to email the principal. I actually did mention it at the last PTA-type meeting. This school hasn’t had an active group, so they only meet three times a year. We are trying to build it back up. The last meeting there were no admin there. I mentioned it at the end of the meeting, but I didn’t hear back. I wanted to make sure he knew and was at least looking into it or wanted to know his perspective. My kids go to a very diverse school with many first generation and immigrant students and a pretty high poverty rate. That's because you're a good egg. And you get that sometimes you have to fall on the sword to protect others who don't have a voice. We might disagree on ways to handle things but I don't think you trying to find solutions to either of these problems makes you whiny or ridiculous. That was out of line.
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The Great Carpezio
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Post by The Great Carpezio on Dec 6, 2019 14:30:28 GMT
I must teach in a very different district than some of you. Our kids get their own books. We don’t have kids buy books. We strive for all kids to have equal access to our resources. Ours kids have teachers who try to be innovative and use best practices. Our students are advised to check out a book at the school library, or one of multiple public libraries. They are also given access on line to the book. But most just buy the actual book, like I do. I’ve been teaching in the same district for over 20 years. I forget how good we have it. It’s an awesome place. I do provide online access when I can, but our students get a physical copy, assuming they want one, for all our novels. I also provide audio files most of the time as well. (And I am not at work today in case anyone is wondering).
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Post by LisaDV on Dec 6, 2019 14:34:50 GMT
I would pack a lunch for my child, buy the book, and help them study. I would contact the school and maybe higher regarding the lunch issue. And until I read the responses here, I would have contacted the teacher, but reading through everyone's responses, I'd leave it alone.
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seaexplore
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Post by seaexplore on Dec 6, 2019 14:38:45 GMT
I’m on the bag lunch and buy book bench,
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Post by monklady123 on Dec 6, 2019 14:39:50 GMT
The problem in these sorts of situations is the kids who can't afford to bring lunch, or who can't afford to go and buy the book. I don't know what the demographics are in your school, but in mine most of our free and reduced lunch kids are from immigrant families, mostly from Central America, and also a good number for Ethiopia, a few North African countries, and Mongolia. Most people from these kinds of cultures are not brought up thinking they can challenge a school. So they are never the "squeaky wheel" because it's just not in their upbringing to complain about things to a teacher or principal. So over the years a lot of us in my neighborhood -- the ones who can afford things and who have no qualms about calling the school, lol -- have sort of unofficially looked out for kids in situations like the ones you describe. The lunch one is important because kids have to eat and if that's all they have for lunch it isn't healthy and it may not be enough, and when they get home they may not even have much to eat there. I would definitely get the PTA involved in that one, or talk to the school counselor and/or social worker. The teacher issue is different. I mean, it's harder to address because how do you get a teacher to change their teaching methods? If this method of teaching vocabulary isn't working then kids aren't going to be passing the tests and hopefully that will send the teacher a message...? One would hope.... -- Personally I would tell my kid to get the vocabulary list from the teacher and work with him at home.
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The Great Carpezio
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Post by The Great Carpezio on Dec 6, 2019 14:42:56 GMT
I’m on the bag lunch and buy book bench, Right, but what about the point that a lot of kids at this school can’t do that?
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Post by maryland on Dec 6, 2019 14:58:04 GMT
So, so far no one would be concerned about the lunch? To me it sounds like a systemic problem. I teach in a larger school in a neighboring district. This isn’t an issue there. Their elementary didn’t have the issue. It was the same district. I have not talked to anyone in real life about the vocab, but I’ve talked to a bunch of people about the lunch issue, and they all thought it was ridiculous for this to happen on a regular basis. Most would contact the school. I did send an email yesterday about the lunch. I shared my son’s perception (and acknowledged I waited a while because kids can be hyperbolic). I wanted to make sure the principal knew, see what his perception was and was wondering if it was something they were working on trying to improve. I wasn’t pissy. I kept it light and professional. I didn’t contact just because of my kid. This school really does have many kids where that meal is their main meal of the day. I also think when it happens over and over again, it communicates to those kids who are affected that they don’t really matter. My one son eats an earlier shift and gets to choose from two entrees, pizza and a fully stocked a la carte all year. His twin brother get little to no choice most days. That isn’t equal access. I agree, I would be concerned too if it happened often (I was just afraid to say something! ).
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paigepea
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Post by paigepea on Dec 6, 2019 15:03:30 GMT
I haven’t read the other replies.
I’m also in the throws of middle school. Such a fun time 😂😂.
I would contact the school re: lunch. I have a child who is always last in line. It has happened that the vegetarian entre is done by the time she gets there (she is vegetarian). I’ve told her she has three choices : get there faster, which isn’t always possible if she has sports lunch league or a tutorial or something like that, ask the chef, or eat what is left (sides, salads and soup). If it happened regularly, I’d contact the person in charge of the food.
In regards to ELA, I’d probably tell my child to do their best and understand that not all assignments will be fair or worthwhile. I’d say that while I want you to do your best I understand that it will be very difficult because your teacher hasn’t set you up with an easy way to review. It sounds more like decoding (hopefully - is a sentence provided with the word on the test). I would only contact the school if they are doing no other ELA work. If this is the extent of their ELA that would be an issue for me. If it’s just one aspect I’d be ok with it. Dumb but not worth going to the teacher for. Save that for a bigger ‘dumb’ in the future.
If you wanted to contact the teacher about the vocal test I’d send an email that says ‘please send home the review package with child so that he can review’.
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Judy26
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Post by Judy26 on Dec 6, 2019 15:11:12 GMT
Retired reading specialist here. The school needs to provide adequate food and time to eat it. I would definitely bring this up to administrators. Perhaps you have the means to provide a packed lunch but with 60% of students on free/ reduced lunches, many won’t be able to.
The ELA teacher needs to retire. Her practices are out of date and harmful to students who are struggling readers. Studies have shown that new vocabulary needs to be used in context up to 40 times for it to be part of a person’s speaking vocabulary. She is wasting valuable learning time for student’s who are going to need to be able to read and synthesize complex texts within a couple of years. As a parent I would supplement her horrid lessons with enrichment reading at home using engaging short texts that could be discussed in a natural setting. I would also explain that this is something that may happen on occasion during life and the importance of choosing battles.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 6, 2019 15:15:07 GMT
The Great Carpezio So, so far no one would be concerned about the lunch? Oh I am concerned. It's poor planning on their part to not have enough and I would let someone know...maybe higher ups are not aware? As a retired teacher...that's not how you teach vocabulary at all. For my own child lunch is not an issue, but for the rest who don’t have access to decent food, you are right to be worried. And because ( just as the pea posted ) you can’t fix a bad teacher, buying the book is the best option. But you are absolutely correct , this is the worst why to teach spelling and vocabulary EVER. my cousin got trapped into this new way of teaching back in the 60s. All she learned was an extreme hate for reading. I am pretty sure that she has never read a book since she was 9/10 years old.
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luckyexwife
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Post by luckyexwife on Dec 6, 2019 15:23:54 GMT
The child should pack his own lunch and buy his own book and do his own work. If he has a list of the vocab words, why does he need anything else? What exactly do you think the teacher needs to provide as review materials? No, I would not talk to the school about any of these whiny, ridiculous complaints. What about the kids that truly can't afford to bring their own lunch, or buy their own book?
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The Great Carpezio
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Post by The Great Carpezio on Dec 6, 2019 15:36:30 GMT
Retired reading specialist here. The school needs to provide adequate food and time to eat it. I would definitely bring this up to administrators. Perhaps you have the means to provide a packed lunch but with 60% of students on free/ reduced lunches, many won’t be able to. The ELA teacher needs to retire. Her practices are out of date and harmful to students who are struggling readers. Studies have shown that new vocabulary needs to be used in context up to 40 times for it to be part of a person’s speaking vocabulary. She is wasting valuable learning time for student’s who are going to need to be able to read and synthesize complex texts within a couple of years. As a parent I would supplement her horrid lessons with enrichment reading at home using engaging short texts that could be discussed in a natural setting. I would also explain that this is something that may happen on occasion during life and the importance of choosing battles. Thanks for your insight. I am not a reading specialist, but I’ve been lucky to work with some, and for many years, I was able to work with a coworker that had a PhD in the area and taught part time reading specialist classes both as a professor and as professional development. I know not everyone is as lucky, but I think I was under the mistaken impression that most ELA teachers in my state were familiar with at least Marzano. I know I can’t give them 40 times, but I strive for being purposeful with my choices, providing enriching activities with the words, links to study aids (quizlet or the like) and I shoot for at least seven exposures in class.
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The Great Carpezio
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Post by The Great Carpezio on Dec 6, 2019 15:39:02 GMT
I haven’t read the other replies. I’m also in the throws of middle school. Such a fun time 😂😂. I would contact the school re: lunch. I have a child who is always last in line. It has happened that the vegetarian entre is done by the time she gets there (she is vegetarian). I’ve told her she has three choices : get there faster, which isn’t always possible if she has sports lunch league or a tutorial or something like that, ask the chef, or eat what is left (sides, salads and soup). If it happened regularly, I’d contact the person in charge of the food. In regards to ELA, I’d probably tell my child to do their best and understand that not all assignments will be fair or worthwhile. I’d say that while I want you to do your best I understand that it will be very difficult because your teacher hasn’t set you up with an easy way to review. It sounds more like decoding (hopefully - is a sentence provided with the word on the test). I would only contact the school if they are doing no other ELA work. If this is the extent of their ELA that would be an issue for me. If it’s just one aspect I’d be ok with it. Dumb but not worth going to the teacher for. Save that for a bigger ‘dumb’ in the future. If you wanted to contact the teacher about the vocal test I’d send an email that says ‘please send home the review package with child so that he can review’. Yes, maybe we need to set up a support thread for middle school parents each week. It’s a whole new world. Yikes!
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Post by Jen in NCal on Dec 6, 2019 15:52:50 GMT
I teach at a middle school.
You said you emailed the principal about the lunch and if you worded it as you said, I think that is great. Maybe see if you can get a few more parents feeling the same way. Get involved with the PTA or see if there is a parent Facebook group. Our parent group on FB brings up issues and both staff and the principal are also a part of it. Often times, we don't know there is an issue until it gets posted there. It also gives the principal, who rarely, if ever, posts there, another feel for the general direction of the school.
For the vocab, I agree, it does seem excessive. It also provides and excellent opportunity for your student to learn how to advocate for himself. Talk to him about it and have him write out some talking points he can go with to the teacher. Writing them down ahead of time will help him maintain a respectful tone and make sure he doesn't forget anything. I have had students do this with me and it has made me take another look at the assignment and sometimes I have to modify it because I've made it too time consuming or difficult to accomplish.
Are the crosswords done as homework or in class? If they are homework, what about making flashcards of the words each time? I know it's a little late, but if he still has the old crosswords, maybe he can go through them and make flashcards for some of the more difficult ones.
Oh, and if festoon and metronomic are two of the words that get retested, the teacher is plain mean spirited. Until this thread, I had never even heard or read the word metronomic. One point of vocab work is to familiarize students with words they might not have been exposed to and are crucial to the crux of the story.
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muggins
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Post by muggins on Dec 6, 2019 16:24:56 GMT
I would contact the school about both concerns. As a former elementary teacher, I would often be hesitant to contact my children’s schools about my concerns as I know how critical I can be of bad practice. Not any more, I’ve decided to be ‘that mom’ and express my concern about poor teaching, unfair grading, scheduling, etc. I’ve tried having my child advocate for himself, but often his concerns are dismissed by the teachers.
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J u l e e
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Jun 28, 2014 2:50:47 GMT
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Post by J u l e e on Dec 6, 2019 16:24:57 GMT
I am sitting on my hands and not allowing myself to start quoting left and right and being a complete bitch in my responses.
Thank you so much for recognizing when a situation at school is less than ideal for your child, but also affects children who may truly not have a viable solution or even an advocate to help them come to one. Pack a lunch and buy a book is not a solution for everyone. And those are just two examples. Things like this happen more often than we'd like to think, and escape our notice if we only think in the realm of our own experiences.
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The Great Carpezio
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Post by The Great Carpezio on Dec 6, 2019 16:25:42 GMT
I teach at a middle school. You said you emailed the principal about the lunch and if you worded it as you said, I think that is great. Maybe see if you can get a few more parents feeling the same way. Get involved with the PTA or see if there is a parent Facebook group. Our parent group on FB brings up issues and both staff and the principal are also a part of it. Often times, we don't know there is an issue until it gets posted there. It also gives the principal, who rarely, if ever, posts there, another feel for the general direction of the school. For the vocab, I agree, it does seem excessive. It also provides and excellent opportunity for your student to learn how to advocate for himself. Talk to him about it and have him write out some talking points he can go with to the teacher. Writing them down ahead of time will help him maintain a respectful tone and make sure he doesn't forget anything. I have had students do this with me and it has made me take another look at the assignment and sometimes I have to modify it because I've made it too time consuming or difficult to accomplish. Are the crosswords done as homework or in class? If they are homework, what about making flashcards of the words each time? I know it's a little late, but if he still has the old crosswords, maybe he can go through them and make flashcards for some of the more difficult ones. Oh, and if festoon and metronomic are two of the words that get retested, the teacher is plain mean spirited. Until this thread, I had never even heard or read the word metronomic. One point of vocab work is to familiarize students with words they might not have been exposed to and are crucial to the crux of the story. The PTA and FB group are not much of a presence, but some of us are tying to make it stronger. The last meeting we were supposed to discuss some specific items, but no admin or school board members made it. I hope to bring about some change with some other people. It has been such and interesting cross section at the two meetings so far. One Hispanic outspoken dad, three Somali dads, about ten Somali moms/older sisters/grandmas. One interpreter and about ten white moms (and at least at the first meeting, nine of us had kids with an IEP/504.) I guess until this year, only 2-4 parents would show up at the meetings. The crosswords are homework. Since she started testing from memory, we’ve been making Quizlets. Yes, some of the words are really oddball and some of them are way too close in meaning for the same test. Last week they had mesmerizing, hypnotic, gravitated and vacantly on the same test. The last two are ok, especially since they are different parts of speech, but then throw those in with two synonym adjectives and it just gets messy.
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Post by crimsoncat05 on Dec 6, 2019 16:25:47 GMT
So, so far no one would be concerned about the lunch? To me it sounds like a systemic problem. I teach in a larger school in a neighboring district. This isn’t an issue there. Their elementary didn’t have the issue. It was the same district. I have not talked to anyone in real life about the vocab, but I’ve talked to a bunch of people about the lunch issue, and they all thought it was ridiculous for this to happen on a regular basis. Most would contact the school. I've just started reading, but it sounds to me like you want to contact the school to discuss it as a SYSTEMIC issue for ALL the kids affected, not just your OWN kids. If the school doesn't know parents are concerned about the issues, then how would they know things may need to be improved? Your kid bringing his lunch will NOT solve the problem of poor planning for lunch entrees. And your kid having the book to study won't help the other kids in the class if it's a crappy way to learn vocabulary. I say contact the school with your concerns.
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The Great Carpezio
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Post by The Great Carpezio on Dec 6, 2019 16:29:55 GMT
I would contact the school about both concerns. As a former elementary teacher, I would often be hesitant to contact my children’s schools about my concerns as I know how critical I can be of bad practice. Not any more, I’ve decided to be ‘that mom’ and express my concern about poor teaching, unfair grading, scheduling, etc. I’ve tried having my child advocate for himself, but often his concerns are dismissed by the teachers. I know my sixth grader isn’t super awesome yet at communication, since he is, well, a sixth grader, but I really have tried to teach them to advocate and sometimes teach them that they “just suck it up buttercup” most of the time, but, yes, I feel like he is being dismissed. It was his only “not great” grade. We are trying.
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The Great Carpezio
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Post by The Great Carpezio on Dec 6, 2019 16:36:51 GMT
So, so far no one would be concerned about the lunch? To me it sounds like a systemic problem. I teach in a larger school in a neighboring district. This isn’t an issue there. Their elementary didn’t have the issue. It was the same district. I have not talked to anyone in real life about the vocab, but I’ve talked to a bunch of people about the lunch issue, and they all thought it was ridiculous for this to happen on a regular basis. Most would contact the school. I've just started reading, but it sounds to me like you want to contact the school to discuss it as a SYSTEMIC issue for ALL the kids affected, not just your OWN kids. If the school doesn't know parents are concerned about the issues, then how would they know things may need to be improved? Your kid bringing his lunch will NOT solve the problem of poor planning for lunch entrees. And your kid having the book to study won't help the other kids in the class if it's a crappy way to learn vocabulary. I say contact the school with your concerns. Yes, I don’t want to share the entire email, but here is the end: I know my sons are privileged enough to be able to skip their school lunch because they don't like it, but I know a lot of kids there don't have that luxury. I also know pizza provides adequate nutrition, but I don't think it should be the only option for the same group of kids on a regular basis, and the fact that it happens so frequently speaks to something systemic that concerns me. Thanks for reading this. I hope to learn more about your perception and insight on the issue.
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Post by Prenticekid on Dec 6, 2019 16:54:28 GMT
I'm just going to put this out there. And, I'm kind of going to get on a soap box. (FTR My kids are grown.)
I never, ever banked on my kids' teachers to do their jobs. Teachers are so limited by so many things that they cannot possibly be everything they need to be for each child. I had a child with a high IQ and his head was just places a teacher doesn't have time for in a regular classroom setting. My DD struggled to the point I had her put back from 3d grade to 2d grade. I made decisions about what I wanted them to know, and how they were going to get the knowledge or skill. Then I filled in where I could. They often say that they were homeschooled too. LOL Learning was our lifestyle while they were growing up. I added to my kids' regular education in all kinds of ways at every grade level. Obviously, I couldn't do everything either, but in the given situation, the book would have already been purchased and vocabulary would be studied in a way that I saw fit.
So, instead of having continual issues with teaching styles and feeling like you want to speak with a teacher about every situation, plan on buying the book, plan on studying for fun, plan on watching documentaries, plan on trips to the library, plan on your kids doing their own experiments, etc. Most parents are already doing this sort of thing and just not thinking of it is learning. Don't leave education up to schools. Bottom line, is anyone really satisfied with what children learn and how they learn it? Public school education is being eroded by DeVos and company was I type this. We simply have to do better for our kids and not leave it to a government institution.
As an aside, my DGD's class is reading All the Light We Cannot See. She wasn't happy with how things were going in the classroom with being able to read the book, and she asked me to buy her a copy (the library's copy was out on loan). So, getting a copy of the book oustide of school is a kid advocating for themselves.
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Post by crimsoncat05 on Dec 6, 2019 16:57:58 GMT
I'm just going to put this out there. And, I'm kind of going to get on a soap box. I'm guessing by reading your post that you didn't read the rest of the thread, to see that the OP is not worried about her own kid so much as ALL THE OTHER kids in the class who may NOT have funds to buy books, may not themselves have the vocabulary skills to help their kids, might not have the resources to find documentaries, the time, education, or resources to figure out other ways to teach the content in a different way than the teacher, etc.
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Post by mrssmith on Dec 6, 2019 17:04:36 GMT
The problem in these sorts of situations is the kids who can't afford to bring lunch, or who can't afford to go and buy the book. I don't know what the demographics are in your school, but in mine most of our free and reduced lunch kids are from immigrant families, mostly from Central America, and also a good number for Ethiopia, a few North African countries, and Mongolia. Most people from these kinds of cultures are not brought up thinking they can challenge a school. So they are never the "squeaky wheel" because it's just not in their upbringing to complain about things to a teacher or principal. So over the years a lot of us in my neighborhood -- the ones who can afford things and who have no qualms about calling the school, lol -- have sort of unofficially looked out for kids in situations like the ones you describe. The lunch one is important because kids have to eat and if that's all they have for lunch it isn't healthy and it may not be enough, and when they get home they may not even have much to eat there. I would definitely get the PTA involved in that one, or talk to the school counselor and/or social worker. The teacher issue is different. I mean, it's harder to address because how do you get a teacher to change their teaching methods? If this method of teaching vocabulary isn't working then kids aren't going to be passing the tests and hopefully that will send the teacher a message...? One would hope.... -- Personally I would tell my kid to get the vocabulary list from the teacher and work with him at home. Yes to all of this. We also can not leave those who need help to be their own squeaky wheels. We must advocate for ALL kids. OP - my DDs 4th grade teacher would buy multiple books to keep in the classroom that could be loaned to kids. The school library would also stock numerous copies (esp. for things like Battle of the Books). Maybe a bunch of parents can get together and donate some funds for the books and/or get a company or bookstore to help sponsor. One of our local bookstores will give a discount if purchased in bulk. Good luck to you. And not having enough food for the kids is totally unacceptable.
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Post by PEAcan pie on Dec 6, 2019 20:07:24 GMT
Eh...Schools have a very small margin of being able to afford/provide lunch for the children (yes, it stinks but it is reality) If they consistently have a surplus of food leftover they will not meet the budget. Look over the menu and have your son ask the server to hold back the food he wants for that day. Explain he does not like pizza. I am sure they will be happy to do so.
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Peal
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Post by Peal on Dec 6, 2019 22:13:29 GMT
Most of the schools my kids have attended in various states have had this lunch problem. When they were younger we opted for a lunch from home. I figure that helps free up food and space for kids who don't have that option.
I'm not sure about the second issue except they at least are crosswords and not find a words, which are the epitome of lazy education. My kids are pretty good with vocab so this wouldn't be much of an issue. And they know I'll buy them any book they ask for, so if they needed their own copy, they would have it. Does the school not have funding for everyone to have a copy they can take home? Just enough for enough copies for one room, not each class?
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