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Post by cristelina on Dec 28, 2019 23:30:52 GMT
Because there are a lot of ways to get conformity, and we don’t use them anymore. absolutely. And that is a good thing. I am 61 and I don't remember seeing ANY behavior issues that lasted more than a day. Those kids were just never seen again. Don't know where they went, but it certainly wasn't my school. My good friend got put in a tall garbage can when she was in first grade. You better believe no other first grader would want that to happen to them. There were also no special ed students at my school. They all got shipped somewhere else. I just retired this year. I have always been a bilingual/ESL teacher. In my entire 28 year career I only had 2 students that were disrespectful. Two. And I am including 8th grade gangbangers. I think it is because they are immigrants and mostly very poor. Their parents didn't really care if they were on grade level. They just wanted to know how they were behaving. Therefor they would be pretty well behaved. I did see a huge change in the general ed population from when I started in 1981 to when I ended my career in 2019. In my opinion, I see many reasons for this. 1. upper middle class kids never being told no. 2. administration not wanting to discipline because they fear the parents 3. Crazy-hard standards that make kids just have melt downs. In case you are unaware, little tiny 5 year olds are required to be reading simple stories, memorize 50 sight words, add and subtract to 5, count forwards and backwards to 100, and write three sentences. Yeah. This is kindergarten 4. Special needs children with very little support. They may have a full time aide that sits next to them ALL DAY LONG asking them to pay attention, stay focused, keep trying. As an adult with no learning/behavior issues I would loose my mind! Schools in my area do not have a calming room where special needs kids can go to calm themselves down. What would happen is they would have a melt down and start kicking/biting/punching/throwing things. Their entire class has to leave the room and the kid is still in the same environment that led to his meltdown. Then their parents would come and pick them up and they would also get suspended. It's tragic 5. Kids that come to us from very violent homes or are homeless. Research is finally showing how detrimental growing up with chronic stress is. Again, these poor kids may have witnessed or experienced some awful abuse the night before and then they get to school and are asked to write a 5 paragraph essay. yeah-no. I could keep going but I will stop.
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luckyjune
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Post by luckyjune on Dec 29, 2019 2:22:47 GMT
Oh, Lordy, the changes I've seen in 30 years teaching middle school!
The ways adults treat kids have changed, for sure. Kids come to me with this learned helplessness that borders on frightening. Kind of this, "If I wait long enough, someone will tell me what the answer is or just do the work for me." I have to put a lot of effort into building kids up to a point where they believe they can actually do their work and be successful.
I spend a lot of my time parenting kids while I teach. I was a no-nonsense parent and I am a no-nonsense teacher. I have no problem saying, "Stop that right now" or "Knock it off" to my own kids or my kids at school. I think I freak out the younger administrators (no kids of their own) when I tell kids to straighten up and fly right. Kids know not to mess around in my class and if they cross the line, we'll have words. I see no problem with that, whatsoever. Students also know that I'll do whatever it takes to help them, but there will be no children trying to take charge of my classroom with their poor behavior.
I'm shocked at the "room clears" I keep hearing about, where kids who have experienced trauma, are allowed to destroy a teacher's room. The other kids are shuffled out of the room for protection. Dear god, seriously? I get the whole trauma thing, but allowing that out-of-control behavior as a response is insane. We've always had kids of trauma in our classrooms, but they haven't always dumped bookshelves and thrown chairs. What gives?
Despite the changes and difficulties, I still love my job. I still find 7th graders to be the most delightful people on earth (even when they are not). It takes more effort on my part at the beginning of the year to establish the conditions necessary for learning in my classroom, but once we are there, we are good as gold.
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Post by freecharlie on Dec 29, 2019 2:33:59 GMT
My son had some behavioral issues this year. Teacher asked if he played a lot of video games. No, just on Saturdays when he’s not playing outside. Asked if I had taken the free district parenting course (I had). And in other ways implored ways in which his behavior could be my fault. I didn’t take offense, they’re fair questions. I told her some ideas, one of which was not to use the class clip chart on him because I believed it was causing anxiety, and that it could be making him worse. She didn’t stop. He got worse. He would say, “I don’t matter in class, when I clip down I never clip back up, she hates me, what’s the point.” As humans it’s so easy to hone in on negative behavior that those charts end up being mostly for highlighting “bad” behavior in my opinion. I requested a group meeting where we all met and came up with a game plan. The principal nixed the chart on her own and instead implemented a private positive behavioral note where basically he would score points, but not necessarily lose points. All the same rules applied, just the negative-leaning public-shaming chart was not used. He’s fine now and no longer goes to bed with stomach aches of anxiety. I changed absolutely nothing. The teacher just changed her approach. So how would this have played out 50 years ago? 30 years ago? Would corporal punishment been involved? Drugs? Were teachers be cognizant of student emotions? A lot of times I think what seemed better was actually not better. Because there are a lot of ways to get conformity, and we don’t use them anymore. 30 to 50 years ago the behavior chart wasn't used and thus his anxiety may have never presented itself.
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Post by freecharlie on Dec 29, 2019 2:36:25 GMT
luckyjune since putting hands on a child is not okay, what else is there to do, but clear the room?
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luckyjune
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Post by luckyjune on Dec 29, 2019 5:01:58 GMT
luckyjune since putting hands on a child is not okay, what else is there to do, but clear the room? In the immediate, I don't think there is anything else to do. Rooms are cleared to protect everyone, except that staff member who stays. Systemically, though, not addressing the issue is a problem. This might not be popular, but maybe it is time to admit that schools are not set up to handle some of the severe behaviors we are seeing today. As a system, I think we have to have a plan, which would be a 100% improvement over what we have right now, which is no plan other than to clear classrooms.
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Post by Lindarina on Dec 29, 2019 11:51:28 GMT
luckyjune since putting hands on a child is not okay, what else is there to do, but clear the room? In the immediate, I don't think there is anything else to do. Rooms are cleared to protect everyone, except that staff member who stays. Systemically, though, not addressing the issue is a problem. This might not be popular, but maybe it is time to admit that schools are not set up to handle some of the severe behaviors we are seeing today. As a system, I think we have to have a plan, which would be a 100% improvement over what we have right now, which is no plan other than to clear classrooms. I think you are touching the core of the problem. I work at a small, out in the boonies, school. Every class has at least one student with extremely disruptive behavior. Hitting, biting, throwing furniture, cursing, hell bent on hurting someone kind of behavior. Many classes have two or more kids with these heavy issues. At the same time, class sizes grow while funds are being cut. Often, the teacher is alone in the classroom. Just imagine what that does to the other students and to the learning environment? When I talk to older teachers they all feel that while most students are the same now as before, they didn’t encounter kids with such serious behavioral issues a few years ago. At least not as many as we do today.
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Post by christine58 on Dec 29, 2019 12:27:26 GMT
I'm shocked at the "room clears" I keep hearing about, where kids who have experienced trauma, are allowed to destroy a teacher's room. The other kids are shuffled out of the room for protection. Dear god, seriously? I get the whole trauma thing, but allowing that out-of-control behavior as a response is insane. We've always had kids of trauma in our classrooms, but they haven't always dumped bookshelves and thrown chairs. What gives? Well I taught emotionally disabled kids for most of my career. Many with psychiatric diagnosis. I had to empty my room of other students if a student went into a tirade. It was for THEIR safety. The out-of-control behavior was not ALLOWED in the way you're implying. If you have a choice of protecting other kids or just letting them get hurt--what would you chose? There was always a consequence for the child/young adult that did the destruction ONCE everything calmed down. We also were only ONLY allowed to restrain (we were all trained) if that student was a danger to themselves. What you see as something being allowed is not always the case.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Dec 29, 2019 13:17:49 GMT
Schools don’t have the manpower to enforce the No using phones in class rule. I hope you don't mind me asking pilcas 😊: do you mean that kids will use their phones unless someone actually take them away?
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artbabe
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Post by artbabe on Dec 29, 2019 13:42:52 GMT
I've taught middle school for 26 years. I agree with most of the things already mentioned. I especially agree with Merge. There is no way I could sit quietly for 8 hours a day. One of the reasons I enjoy being an art teacher is because I'm up and moving all day. My day is very different than my students' day. I've found myself agreeing with Merge on every comment she's made. Things I've found that have changed kids over the years: 1) Lack of recess time 2) Overscheduled kids - being involved in too many after school activities. One or two is great but some kids have every moment of their life scheduled. 3) Parents who don't have firm rules for their kids. 4) Too much screen time and being used to instant gratification. 5) Not enough time working with their hands and building things- they need more arts and crafts, music, shop, home ec, etc. We have been getting away from that and it is so important. It teaches creativity, perseverance, problem-solving, etc. Not to mention skills that they will use the rest of their lives. 6) Parents who make excuses for kids' behaviors at school. 7) Kids not being taught respect for authority and deadlines. These are necessary if they are going to succeed in the job world. I can't imagine talking to my boss the way the kids talk to the teachers. I wouldn't have a job for very long. Basically everything you have already covered. I also like caangel's socrates quote. Kids have been out of control for thousands of years.
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Post by freecharlie on Dec 29, 2019 15:23:55 GMT
Schools don’t have the manpower to enforce the No using phones in class rule. I hope you don't mind me asking pilcas 😊: do you mean that kids will use their phones unless someone actually take them away? Absolutely. Especially in larger classrooms. I'm pretty strict when it comes to phones and my students respect my rules 98% of the time, but every once in a while. Usually I take them because the student has forgotten turn the volume down, but I've had others try to text/answer a phone call in class.
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seaexplore
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Post by seaexplore on Dec 29, 2019 15:24:05 GMT
Schools don’t have the manpower to enforce the No using phones in class rule. I hope you don't mind me asking pilcas 😊: do you mean that kids will use their phones unless someone actually take them away? Yes. In my classroom, I’m constantly watching for phones being used and listening for them going off. The kids freely use them at recess because yard duties do not enforce the district no phones on during school hours rules. If I’m out on campus at recess and I see them, I take them. I busted one kid 2 days in a row. They also “gotta go” and take them to the restroom and use them there. We have parents show up because their kid is “sick” but the kid never used a school phone to call. Blatant disregard for the rules. When they receive a write up the first time, most parents laugh it off. When they get detention the second time, most parents laugh it off as they are picking up their kids phone from the office. When they are suspended the 3rd time, parents don’t really mind and don’t want to be bothered to retrieve the phone so they ask us to just give it back to their kid. We do not, the parent must pick it up. Then there are the fights that get recorded and blasted out to social media. There are the Tik tok videos that are made and shared. Phones are a very real disruption to school.
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Post by busy on Dec 29, 2019 15:31:05 GMT
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Post by Merge on Dec 29, 2019 15:45:52 GMT
I hope you don't mind me asking pilcas 😊: do you mean that kids will use their phones unless someone actually take them away? Absolutely. Especially in larger classrooms. I'm pretty strict when it comes to phones and my students respect my rules 98% of the time, but every once in a while. Usually I take them because the student has forgotten turn the volume down, but I've had others try to text/answer a phone call in class. My one super fun year in middle school included a girl shoving her phone down her bra to prevent me from taking it away, and another girl who went to the principal and accused me of "assaulting" her when I put my hand on her phone (which was in her hand) to try to take it. It became not worth my time and mental health to try to do anything about phones, though. (Also, teaching middle school is NOT for me.) These are extreme examples, and in both cases, these young women had parents who enabled and even encouraged this behavior - but the phone battle is lost for sure. Even at my girls' school, where the kids are pretty compliant because they can be kicked out for misbehavior, the teachers have largely given up the phone battle unless a kid is actively disrupting class with it.
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luckyjune
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Post by luckyjune on Dec 29, 2019 15:46:01 GMT
I'm shocked at the "room clears" I keep hearing about, where kids who have experienced trauma, are allowed to destroy a teacher's room. The other kids are shuffled out of the room for protection. Dear god, seriously? I get the whole trauma thing, but allowing that out-of-control behavior as a response is insane. We've always had kids of trauma in our classrooms, but they haven't always dumped bookshelves and thrown chairs. What gives? Well I taught emotionally disabled kids for most of my career. Many with psychiatric diagnosis. I had to empty my room of other students if a student went into a tirade. It was for THEIR safety. The out-of-control behavior was not ALLOWED in the way you're implying. If you have a choice of protecting other kids or just letting them get hurt--what would you chose? There was always a consequence for the child/young adult that did the destruction ONCE everything calmed down. We also were only ONLY allowed to restrain (we were all trained) if that student was a danger to themselves. What you see as something being allowed is not always the case. Look, I get why there are room clears. I'm simply making an observation that this is a relatively new phenomenon in a typical classroom. You taught EBD, of course you saw more extreme behaviors. It sounds like you had a system that worked for your situation. I know that the EBD person in my building is a saint and we worry daily that we will lose her, due to the unsurmountable stress she faces each day. Keep in mind, my perspective comes from your garden variety Language Arts teacher who has seen massive changes over her 30 year career. My question is why now and not in the 80s and 90s? We have always had kids coming from hellish backgrounds. I've actually done a fair amount of reading on trauma and its effects on kids. The disturbing pattern I see is "This is what causes trauma, this is how a kid in trauma responds/behaves...crickets." Room clears seem to be the end of the line. That, to me, is shortsighted. Before you write me off as heartless, I teach at the toughest middle school in my district. I stay there because I think my work makes a difference. I have a soft spot for the kids who struggle because both my parents were those kids. Many kids have to endure way more than they should and my mission is to be a place of stability and acceptance. In the last five years there has been this shift in behavior. I'm simply interested in figuring out why now.
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Post by Merge on Dec 29, 2019 15:48:07 GMT
My son had some behavioral issues this year. Teacher asked if he played a lot of video games. No, just on Saturdays when he’s not playing outside. Asked if I had taken the free district parenting course (I had). And in other ways implored ways in which his behavior could be my fault. I didn’t take offense, they’re fair questions. I told her some ideas, one of which was not to use the class clip chart on him because I believed it was causing anxiety, and that it could be making him worse. She didn’t stop. He got worse. He would say, “I don’t matter in class, when I clip down I never clip back up, she hates me, what’s the point.” As humans it’s so easy to hone in on negative behavior that those charts end up being mostly for highlighting “bad” behavior in my opinion. I requested a group meeting where we all met and came up with a game plan. The principal nixed the chart on her own and instead implemented a private positive behavioral note where basically he would score points, but not necessarily lose points. All the same rules applied, just the negative-leaning public-shaming chart was not used. He’s fine now and no longer goes to bed with stomach aches of anxiety. I changed absolutely nothing. The teacher just changed her approach. So how would this have played out 50 years ago? 30 years ago? Would corporal punishment been involved? Drugs? Were teachers be cognizant of student emotions? A lot of times I think what seemed better was actually not better. Because there are a lot of ways to get conformity, and we don’t use them anymore. 30 to 50 years ago the behavior chart wasn't used and thus his anxiety may have never presented itself. Behavior charts, checks on the board, etc. are strongly discouraged around here because they're ineffective, do tend to cause anxiety in some students, and can even be considered a violation of privacy.
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luckyjune
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Post by luckyjune on Dec 29, 2019 15:52:00 GMT
I'm not finding phones to be much of an issue in class, but I do blame them for some of the changes we see.
This year's 7th graders were born the year the iPhone came out. They, and the kids a few years older than them, are the first generation whose parents had instant entertainment in their pockets. All that language development that went on during trips to the grocery store and while waiting for food in restaurants became screen time.
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Post by Skellinton on Dec 29, 2019 15:53:44 GMT
30 to 50 years ago the behavior chart wasn't used and thus his anxiety may have never presented itself. Behavior charts, checks on the board, etc. are strongly discouraged around here because they're ineffective, do tend to cause anxiety in some students, and can even be considered a violation of privacy. I am surprised anyone still uses those. Seems like public shaming to me, and as you say they are not effective. I totally remember those kinds of “strategies “ being used when I was in elementary school, in the 70’s and 80’s.
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moodyblue
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Post by moodyblue on Dec 29, 2019 16:02:53 GMT
Behavior charts, checks on the board, etc. are strongly discouraged around here because they're ineffective, do tend to cause anxiety in some students, and can even be considered a violation of privacy. I am surprised anyone still uses those. Seems like public shaming to me, and as you say they are not effective. I totally remember those kinds of “strategies “ being used when I was in elementary school, in the 70’s and 80’s. I think they are still very widely used.
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Post by Merge on Dec 29, 2019 16:03:14 GMT
Behavior charts, checks on the board, etc. are strongly discouraged around here because they're ineffective, do tend to cause anxiety in some students, and can even be considered a violation of privacy. I am surprised anyone still uses those. Seems like public shaming to me, and as you say they are not effective. I totally remember those kinds of “strategies “ being used when I was in elementary school, in the 70’s and 80’s. The current crisis in teaching as I see it is that teachers cannot really punish students for anything, and punishments are ineffective anyway, but new teachers are also dumped into a classroom without any real understanding of how to establish and reinforce classroom routines and procedures, build relationships with students, write and pace a lesson effectively to minimize students checking out and acting up, and manage problem behavior before it gets out of control. These are things you learn through experience, not in a classroom and not in your whopping one semester of student teaching. In addition to changing how school is structured, we also need to change how teachers become teachers. There needs to be some kind of intern/apprenticeship requirement where you don't get a classroom of your own until you've worked under an experienced teacher for at least a couple of years. No one throws a new surgeon into the OR right out of medical school and says, "this patient is yours - good luck," but that's exactly what we do to new teachers. And so they end up overwhelmed and frustrated and try everything under the sun to get their classroom to run calmly, including old strategies like behavior charts. And then half of them give up and leave the profession within five years, and we scratch our heads and wonder why.
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Post by freecharlie on Dec 29, 2019 16:11:54 GMT
I am surprised anyone still uses those. Seems like public shaming to me, and as you say they are not effective. I totally remember those kinds of “strategies “ being used when I was in elementary school, in the 70’s and 80’s. The current crisis in teaching as I see it is that teachers cannot really punish students for anything, and punishments are ineffective anyway, but new teachers are also dumped into a classroom without any real understanding of how to establish and reinforce classroom routines and procedures, build relationships with students, write and pace a lesson effectively to minimize students checking out and acting up, and manage problem behavior before it gets out of control. These are things you learn through experience, not in a classroom and not in your whopping one semester of student teaching. In addition to changing how school is structured, we also need to change how teachers become teachers. There needs to be some kind of intern/apprenticeship requirement where you don't get a classroom of your own until you've worked under an experienced teacher for at least a couple of years. No one throws a new surgeon into the OR right out of medical school and says, "this patient is yours - good luck," but that's exactly what we do to new teachers. And so they end up overwhelmed and frustrated and try everything under the sun to get their classroom to run calmly, including old strategies like behavior charts. And then half of them give up and leave the profession within five years, and we scratch our heads and wonder why. I'm not sure all new teachers need a couple of years and as an experienced teacher, it is hard enough to give up my classroom for a semester, but there needs to be more before they hit student teaching My student teacher last year was amazing. She had worked as a para previously and had good planning, classroom management, and good ideas. She was eager to learn and to try new things. She was late 20s/early 30s. She could have taken complete control in September and I would not have worried The one I had last semester was a hot mess and has no business in a classroom. I would never recommend him for a job. He couldn't plan on his own, had no vision for the big picture, did not have good classroom management, thought he knew it all, wouldn't ask questions and didn't take criticism well and argued when I tried to explain how to do something better. I only left the room for about a week and a half before I realized the damage he would do if I stayed out the whole 6 weeks. He was a whiner and needy and needed his hand held every step of the way. At this point he should not be a teacher and his graduation was not a given (although the university might have passed him to get rid of him).
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Post by freecharlie on Dec 29, 2019 16:18:18 GMT
Also the 'everything has to be researched based' has got to go. My students are not part of your study. I should be able to look at the good in your curriculum and adapt it to my students needs and adapt it for each class. I can teach reading and writing through science and social studies. A fun unit on dinosaurs in elementary can teach all the core subjects. We don't need step by step, teach with fidelity for every lesson.
Can you imagine the reduction in behavior if teachers were actually allowed to take student interests into consideration when planning lessons (you know the best practices of interests and choice actually happening)?
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luckyjune
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Post by luckyjune on Dec 29, 2019 16:19:59 GMT
I am surprised anyone still uses those. Seems like public shaming to me, and as you say they are not effective. I totally remember those kinds of “strategies “ being used when I was in elementary school, in the 70’s and 80’s. The current crisis in teaching as I see it is that teachers cannot really punish students for anything, and punishments are ineffective anyway, but new teachers are also dumped into a classroom without any real understanding of how to establish and reinforce classroom routines and procedures, build relationships with students, write and pace a lesson effectively to minimize students checking out and acting up, and manage problem behavior before it gets out of control. These are things you learn through experience, not in a classroom and not in your whopping one semester of student teaching. In addition to changing how school is structured, we also need to change how teachers become teachers. There needs to be some kind of intern/apprenticeship requirement where you don't get a classroom of your own until you've worked under an experienced teacher for at least a couple of years. No one throws a new surgeon into the OR right out of medical school and says, "this patient is yours - good luck," but that's exactly what we do to new teachers. And so they end up overwhelmed and frustrated and try everything under the sun to get their classroom to run calmly, including old strategies like behavior charts. And then half of them give up and leave the profession within five years, and we scratch our heads and wonder why. I so agree with what you are saying about teacher prep! I liken it to having a baby: you can read every book on the planet, talk to experienced parents, and take all the classes you want, but until you are home, alone, with a baby in your arms...that's when the real learning begins! Pre-service teachers should be enrolled in classes AND employed (as in paid!) as paras in schools. While they are learning theory, they should be observing, working with kids, and beginning to develop their own art as a teacher. I had an intern a couple of years ago. As part of her experience, she needed to teach a lesson to my class. I had to sign off on her lesson plan, which was 16 PAGES LONG!!! The university gave her some template to fill in for this 30 minute lesson! Pre-service teachers need the theory balanced by practicality and getting them in the schools would be a start!
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moodyblue
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Post by moodyblue on Dec 29, 2019 16:36:33 GMT
The current crisis in teaching as I see it is that teachers cannot really punish students for anything, and punishments are ineffective anyway, but new teachers are also dumped into a classroom without any real understanding of how to establish and reinforce classroom routines and procedures, build relationships with students, write and pace a lesson effectively to minimize students checking out and acting up, and manage problem behavior before it gets out of control. These are things you learn through experience, not in a classroom and not in your whopping one semester of student teaching. In addition to changing how school is structured, we also need to change how teachers become teachers. There needs to be some kind of intern/apprenticeship requirement where you don't get a classroom of your own until you've worked under an experienced teacher for at least a couple of years. No one throws a new surgeon into the OR right out of medical school and says, "this patient is yours - good luck," but that's exactly what we do to new teachers. And so they end up overwhelmed and frustrated and try everything under the sun to get their classroom to run calmly, including old strategies like behavior charts. And then half of them give up and leave the profession within five years, and we scratch our heads and wonder why. I so agree with what you are saying about teacher prep! I liken it to having a baby: you can read every book on the planet, talk to experienced parents, and take all the classes you want, but until you are home, alone, with a baby in your arms...that's when the real learning begins! Pre-service teachers should be enrolled in classes AND employed (as in paid!) as paras in schools. While they are learning theory, they should be observing, working with kids, and beginning to develop their own art as a teacher. I had an intern a couple of years ago. As part of her experience, she needed to teach a lesson to my class. I had to sign off on her lesson plan, which was 16 PAGES LONG!!! The university gave her some template to fill in for this 30 minute lesson! Pre-service teachers need the theory balanced by practicality and getting them in the schools would be a start! I remember, over thirty years ago when I was working on my Master's degree, having to write lesson plans that included what we were going to say, what we anticipated the student replies to be and how we would respond - all in complete sentences, no short phrases allowed. It was ridiculous. Yes, you need to think things through and be prepared, but no one has time to write plans like that for everything!
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Post by monklady123 on Dec 29, 2019 17:06:50 GMT
Very interesting replies from all of you, thanks very much! (keep them coming, if anyone else wants to chime in). I'll read them to my son and his gf later on. Sad all round though....even just since my kids were in elementary school things have changed so much. My ds started 1st grade not being able to read much more than some sight words and his letters and sounds. And that was totally "normal"... he was right on track, on grade level. Today he's be marked as remedial immediately, because kids are expected to read at the end of kindergarten. It's just so academic when what they really need is time to run around, get dirty, build things, etc.
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Post by ntsf on Dec 29, 2019 17:19:19 GMT
yeah...my son didn't really read til 2nd grade and he grew up in a very very rich literate environment. the teachers didn't bug him too much. and in 2nd grade he went from level 1 simple books to the hardy boys.. now at 32, he reads books---the hard bound kind..
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Post by Merge on Dec 29, 2019 17:26:22 GMT
I so agree with what you are saying about teacher prep! I liken it to having a baby: you can read every book on the planet, talk to experienced parents, and take all the classes you want, but until you are home, alone, with a baby in your arms...that's when the real learning begins! Pre-service teachers should be enrolled in classes AND employed (as in paid!) as paras in schools. While they are learning theory, they should be observing, working with kids, and beginning to develop their own art as a teacher. I had an intern a couple of years ago. As part of her experience, she needed to teach a lesson to my class. I had to sign off on her lesson plan, which was 16 PAGES LONG!!! The university gave her some template to fill in for this 30 minute lesson! Pre-service teachers need the theory balanced by practicality and getting them in the schools would be a start! I remember, over thirty years ago when I was working on my Master's degree, having to write lesson plans that included what we were going to say, what we anticipated the student replies to be and how we would respond - all in complete sentences, no short phrases allowed. It was ridiculous. Yes, you need to think things through and be prepared, but no one has time to write plans like that for everything! And all of that does nothing to prepare you for when (not if) things don't go according to plan. That's where experience comes in.
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Post by freecharlie on Dec 29, 2019 17:31:19 GMT
Very interesting replies from all of you, thanks very much! (keep them coming, if anyone else wants to chime in). I'll read them to my son and his gf later on. Sad all round though....even just since my kids were in elementary school things have changed so much. My ds started 1st grade not being able to read much more than some sight words and his letters and sounds. And that was totally "normal"... he was right on track, on grade level. Today he's be marked as remedial immediately, because kids are expected to read at the end of kindergartenj. It's just so academic when what they really need is time to run around, get dirty, build things, etc. :( I also believe the bolded is why we have more school violence and issues with older kids and adults. School used to be a place to learn social skills as well as academics. How to cope with disappointment, how to share, how to be part of a community. Not anymore
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Post by 950nancy on Dec 29, 2019 17:38:23 GMT
I would have said no for the first 15 years, but after that, yes. Many parents have given up disciplining their kids for a various number of reasons.
Ask yourself if walking through Walmart or Target has changed in the last 30 years. Yes, some kids are wonderful and sweet, but many of them can't go two minutes without having a screen in their face and don't know how to entertain themselves. Then they act out and misbehave. Kids expect their classrooms to run like a video game and be entertaining. If not, they can't focus and start misbehaving which keeps everyone from learning. Teachers are also expected to individualize instruction for 30+ kids all day long and it is just impossible.
I would love the expectation to be no cell phones in school. I know it won't happen, but I think the benefits would be worth it.
It used to be that kids with major issues started a little later in elementary school. A few kindergarten kids would have some issues, but now you can see that the number of kids who start with major issues in school begin before they even walk in the classroom. Five year olds are physically violent and know more cuss words than I did in junior high.
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Post by christine58 on Dec 29, 2019 17:40:34 GMT
Before you write me off as heartless, Never thought that at all....I was just trying to explain why emptying a room sometimes happens.
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Post by 950nancy on Dec 29, 2019 17:43:09 GMT
My son had some behavioral issues this year. Teacher asked if he played a lot of video games. No, just on Saturdays when he’s not playing outside. Asked if I had taken the free district parenting course (I had). And in other ways implored ways in which his behavior could be my fault. I didn’t take offense, they’re fair questions. I told her some ideas, one of which was not to use the class clip chart on him because I believed it was causing anxiety, and that it could be making him worse. She didn’t stop. He got worse. He would say, “I don’t matter in class, when I clip down I never clip back up, she hates me, what’s the point.” As humans it’s so easy to hone in on negative behavior that those charts end up being mostly for highlighting “bad” behavior in my opinion. I requested a group meeting where we all met and came up with a game plan. The principal nixed the chart on her own and instead implemented a private positive behavioral note where basically he would score points, but not necessarily lose points. All the same rules applied, just the negative-leaning public-shaming chart was not used. He’s fine now and no longer goes to bed with stomach aches of anxiety. I changed absolutely nothing. The teacher just changed her approach. So how would this have played out 50 years ago? 30 years ago? Would corporal punishment been involved? Drugs? Were teachers be cognizant of student emotions? A lot of times I think what seemed better was actually not better. Because there are a lot of ways to get conformity, and we don’t use them anymore. 30 to 50 years ago the behavior chart wasn't used and thus his anxiety may have never presented itself. I used a chart in the 80's. I also was pretty aware of how kids reacted to the chart. I also had parents who lived and died by the chart, so I was pretty careful with some kids knowing the consequences a kid could receive at home. If I had a nickel for every kid who told his parent I hated him... that just was never true. It was a kid's way of making it all okay. Teachers and parents just have to work together to do what is best for each kid.
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