Another “Karen” named Amy Cooper...

Sorry not sorry she got fired. I'm just glad she surrendered her dog back to the rescue she got it from. They can find it a better home. I also hope Mr. Cooper emerges from this knowing more people than not support him. 

I am going to right now! Thanks for sharing a link! 

I’ve been bringing the issue of police violence to the peas since 2016.


I encourage everyone to read the near 20 page thread and reflect on how we can still be having this conversation in 2020


2peasrefugees.boards.net/thread/45290/another-black-man-police

Thank you for sharing this. I hadn't seen it yet. What a kind man he is. When it would be easy to want to see her hurt and punished, he cares more about how she grows from this and how the story isn't just about him but its about the underlying issues that arent being dealt with.

He says about her firing and death threats:

“I can’t see how that addresses the underlying issues. I think it’s important to move beyond this instance and this one individual. Too much focus has been put on her when it really is about the underlying issues that have plagued this city and this country for centuries. Racial issues,” he said.

A graduate of Harvard University’s class of 1984, Christian Cooper suggested he’s willing to reconsider his assessment of Amy Cooper based on her actions going forward.

“I don’t think she was thinking in that moment. I’m very upset she’s getting death threats. That’s antithetical to the appropriate response,” he said.

“If you’re upset that she put my life in danger by trying to bring the cops down on a black man, then how can you turn around and make a death threat? That makes no sense. It’s downright awful,” he told The Daily News.

Geez.  He's right.  Talk about grace.  

However, I'm not sure her company could have allowed her to stay.  

Death threats to her?  I didn't realize that was happening.  Never an excuse for that.  NEVER.

If Amy Cooper has a change of heart and character, it will not be because of the reaction of the public these last 24 hours.  It will be because of the kindness and grace afforded to her by Christian Cooper.  That's my guess, anyway. 

I don't think that's fair.

Black people have been asking white people to listen and pay attention for, I don't know, maybe a hundred years now? Longer? And white people keep being shocked when another black man is killed by a police officer for jogging, selling loose cigarettes, just living.

If you are shocked by the events of the past week, then you really just haven't been paying attention. This goes back to those kinds of comments about "This is not who we are" when in reality, it's EXACTLY who America is; it's woven into the fabric of our country. 

Imagine being black and walking through this world and every time something like this happens its like there was some reset button and everyone's memory of EVERY OTHER TIME this has happened (that has been reported in the media) was wiped out.

I have been working VERY hard to put myself in an anti-racist mindset. It requires constant reflection on what I am thinking and doing and saying in that moment. (See Dr. Ibram X Kendi's "How to Be an Anti-Racist"). I'm going to invite you to reflect on what you are saying to Olan in this moment. How else might you have responded? 

No, our outrage isn't enough. We have to act to disrupt the systems that allow these things to keep happening. This means a lot of things, and I'm not an expert. I'm just trying to do better than I did before. 

I'm just going to leave this here:
Anti-Racism Resources for White People

75 Things White People Can Do for Racial Justice

I adore you SockMonkey. You're one of my faves. I love your commitment to better listening, better understanding...being a better advocate. You really inspire me.

I did state that "shocked" is probably not the right word.

But outrage definitely is. One of many others, likely.

This is a message board. What more can we do right here in this space other than discuss? Listen? Open our minds? Come together in our grief and anger? Cuss and call it all exactly what it is?

Does more need to be done? Of COURSE. But I don't think that's what this website or forum were designed for. And what I don't like is that women who come to threads like this to do exactly what I described above feel they are being shamed because their words aren't enough. I feel like it's the correct assumption to make of the people who rally in threads like these that we know that. We know.

Do we need to post what we are doing away from the board to fight racism and stand with brown and black people in order to "qualify" our feelings on the subject? And if we aren't actively doing anything, do our words and thoughts and feelings not count for anything?

Another add:

Calling a black woman’s sanity into question during an argument is exactly like telling the police a black man is threatening you.


A great read:

www.womensmediacenter.com/fbomb/when-they-see-us-and-the-delicate-balance-of-depicting-black-trauma

In April 1990, five boys of color were falsely convicted of raping a jogger in Central Park in April 1989. In 2002, after the men, who had become known as the “Central Park Five,” had already served or were near the end of serving sentences that ranged from 12 to 14 years in prison, the real perpetrator of the crime confessed. As a result, the five men — Antron McCray, Yusef Salaam, Korey Wise, Raymond Santana, and Kevin Richardson — were exonerated and given a settlement of $40 million.

When They See Us, a four-part series directed by Ava DuVernay that premiered on Netflix on May 31, reexamines the crushing details of the boys’ experiences before their convictions were vacated. The series depicts the police arresting the boys then separating them from their families, even though they’re minors. The police beat these children — who are crying and pleading to go home — and yell at them while interrogating them and ultimately coercing them into confessing. Prosecutor Linda Fairstein toys with the facts in order to create a story against them, and then-businessman Donald Trump takes out an ad in the New York Times calling for the boys to face the death penalty. Korey Wise, the only boy sent to an adult prison at age 16, is mentally and physically abused by both inmates and guards during his stays in prisons such as Attica and Riker’s Island. After they complete their sentences, but before they are exonerated of their crimes, the group returns home only to realize their lives will never be the same.

Despite critical acclaim, some viewers have expressed how hard the series is to watch. Recently, a friend of mine referred to the show as “black trauma porn,” which, for me, raised the question: Who gets to tell stories of black trauma and how and when should they tell them? Or even — should we tell them at all?

Black trauma porn has been defined as “any type of media — be it written, photographed or filmed — which exploits traumatic moments of adversity to generate buzz, notoriety or social media attention.” It has typically been used in the context of resharing and reposting videos of unarmed black people being shot and killed by the police. Some argue that the circulation of such horrific videos not only re-traumatizes black people but creates a numbness to these deaths, dehumanizes black families, and robs them of the opportunity to grieve in a private and intimate way.

Black trauma porn hasn’t often been connected to TV and film, although some argued that Orange Is The New Black, a show about a privileged white woman who ends up in a women’s prison, employed it in its depiction of the death of an innocent black character. Given that the show was created by a white woman, and that episode was written by white women, it seems more plausible that the death of a black character in this context could have been considered exploitative of black pain for the goal of increased viewership.

When They See Us, however, was written and directed by a black woman who is already known for spearheading projects of similar subject matter. And this seems to be the key to the question of whether or not black trauma should be depicted in our media: These stories need to be told and we — creative minds of the black community who understand that pain, who care about those victims, and who have the talent to create work that forces others to care about them, too — need to be the ones to tell them. We need to tell stories like that of the Central Park Five with the level of detail that Ava Duvernay managed to do, no matter how hard it is to watch. As the executive producer of When They See Us, Oprah Winfrey, recently said of the series, “For everyone who says it’s ‘too hard to watch,’ think about the people who still find it too hard to live.”

Today, one in three black men will be imprisoned in their lifetime compared to one in 17 white men. The incarceration rate of black women is twice as high as that of white women. On any given day, 10,000 children are housed in adult prisons. Black Americans are seven times more likely to be wrongfully convicted than their white counterparts.

Stories such as the Central Park Five’s need to be told not only to draw attention to the injustices still occurring in this country 30 years later, but in order to give justice to the people America’s history has left behind. Already, the prosecutor who orchestrated the accusation, Linda Fairstein, has faced a series of repercussions for her involvement after decades of being considered a law enforcement hero. Without a platform as big as Netflix to share the truth, her participation and culpability would likely never have been acknowledged.

When They See Us intends to make these men, and their story, visible — to force Americans to ask themselves what they missed the first time they saw Antron McCray, Yusef Salaam, Korey Wise, Raymond Santana, and Kevin Richardson in the news and, hopefully, to make it harder for such an injustice to occur in the future.

Thank you so much for responding. I appreciate you, too, and appreciate that you are willing to engage in this conversation publicly. I think that's important for all of us.

I'd like to respond to a couple of things you said that have me thinking. The first thing is the idea that this forum isn't designed for doing more. I guess for me, being anti-racist means doing that in whatever space I am in, whether that's at dinner with my family or on a (non)scrapbooking message board. Now, that doesn't necessarily mean I'm going to throw down on any old thread, but certainly on a thread like this where we're discussing an issue of race, I think we (white people) need to consider our whiteness and our own racial frame and consider how we are responding, especially to women of color who participate here. This is how I feel and how I am framing my responses. Even my own response at first was like "Oh and the dog," and I was like... "Did I need to say that? Was that important considering the gravity of the rest of the situation?" A human response, to be sure, but in reflecting I'm trying to consider my racial frame and whose lives, safety I'm centering. I'm sharing this because I want people to understand my thought process in how I'm considering my responses to this thread. What might "doing more" look like here, beyond expressing our disgust? (I don't have that answer... just a question I ask myself).

I also think a lot about shame and how much we're doing as white people. It can often feel like it's not enough, and it's hard to hear that it isn't. And, yes, our feelings count, but I try to consider how my feelings are being centered as a white woman in conversations about race, pause, and consider whether that's appropriate. 

We are all going to mess up, and I have messed up and continue to do so. Even on this thread, I wondered "Is it my place to jump in and defend Olan? Am I othering her or speaking over her?" So, I guess for me it's just about trying to just do better. 

Anyway, this is messy and complicated, but I really do appreciate your willingness to discuss. 

I once upon a thread felt like this toward something Olan said.  I was so upset because I generally come from a mixed area and a mixed circle.  To think that I wasn't sensitive to issues of race was kind of difficult for me to chew on.  Really.  I also come at this board from a feeling of kinship with all of you.  And I had it in my mind that Olan didn't really want to befriend us but instead put us in our place.  And I was so upset about these two things that I posted something similar to what you did above.  I went to a good friend of mine and I expressed my frustration.  And she put me rightly in my place.  Same as Olan.  This time it came from a black woman I loved in an friendship where we don't often talk about race because in my mind, it's non-issue.  But that day I learned it's not a non-issue for *her*.  She sees things in me that I don't even recognize as being part of my privilege.  And I cannot possibly wrap my brain around all things that she experiences as a person of color.  I offered Olan an apology on that thread.  *I* think that experience caused me to have tremendous growth both personally and in my friendship.  I still wish I could form a bond with Olan here as I have many peas.  But I am going to accept that I cannot control the participation here and I'm going to treat each of you as though your posts here and my reading of them is purposeful and meant to add to my growth. 

I do not like to see any of you bullied and I despise personal attacks.  All of us here have value and are human beings with real feelings on the other side of the keyboard.  I'm just saying, maybe we can have some give and take on both sides here.  Olan lives an experience most of us don't.  Her view, her anger at these things, I assume some fear as person of color in a country where there is significant violence against persons of color, and yet she still comes here and shares things that make us uncomfortable.  It makes me uncomfortable.  I ran those 2.23 miles in memory of Armaud Arbery.  And the whole damn time I did it in silence.  Just thinking that my shock is gross.  I mean I continue to be shocked over something that just keeps happening over and over again.  But what is the alternative?  That we just chalk this up to status quo.  That's not the answer either.  All I know is that I don't often post on these threads or school shootings because they affect me deeply.  I can't watch the videos because it will haunt me.  I am that sensitive.  Now imagine being the mother of a black child.  And then, can you watch?  All I'm saying is, let's try to give each other some grace.  And Olan, you'd be surprised at the amount of growth happening, even when it seems we go kicking and screaming into it. 

I'm sorry you feel like I'm bullying Olan.  You're someone I deeply respect as well.  I'm trying to say that I feel that I'm being shamed for not saying enough or doing enough.  That the conversation with Olan often does not feel like a dialogue.  Maybe it can't.  I don't know.  

I think I've got to stop though. I'm feeling like more of a problem than an advocate.  That's kinda heartbreaking for me.  So I need to disengage.

Bullying is wrong. Full stop. It has nothing to do with race.

Personal attacks, continuous harassment and the posting of personal information are the very definition of bullying.

And yet we are asking for grace for the bully and, worse yet, expecting the victim of the bullying to give grace. All because of the races of the people involved.

When I said “I’m sorry you feel that way” I really did mean it. I don’t take ownership of other people’s feelings but what I will say is I’ve clearly stated my feelings were hurt by the things peas have said to me and no one gave a damn. Olan I’m introspective enough to know my delivery sucks and it’s often confusing to follow my train of thought. But I won’t own having said A SINGLE THING** hurtful enough for Elaine or any pea to wish harm upon me at the hands of police. To say that to another woman knowing what we all know about the history of police and Black people.That’s really shitty. It’s unconscionable. So I’m confused why the peas think I’d somehow come here to find camaraderie and friendship. Outside of a handful of peas most are incredibly rude to me. Don’t misconstrue this as me wanting that to change. I’m okay with my role here at 2peas and like the friend circle I’ve cultivated for myself.


****With as many rabid supporters as Elaine has trust me they are all trying to find that one comment and can’t. What they are finding is Elaine consistently interacting with me despite all of her claims.

Olan