sudsy
Full Member
Posts: 132
Sept 15, 2019 12:55:18 GMT
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Post by sudsy on Jun 28, 2020 14:31:41 GMT
Views don't have merit based on whether they're "alternative" or "mainstream". Views have merit based on whether they comport with shared reality OR NOT. It's like hearing anti-vaxxers all over again, especially the part about doing one's own research. Scary times.Blindly following what the media would have you believe is much, much scarier in my opinion.
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Post by sleepingbooty on Jun 28, 2020 14:36:59 GMT
Views don't have merit based on whether they're "alternative" or "mainstream". Views have merit based on whether they comport with shared reality OR NOT.Unfortunately this theory is quite limited. Let's take George Floyd for example. Hopefully we can agree that the only person who shared George Floyd's reality was George Floyd. This would mean that nobody but George Floyd would have a view that had merit. I think we can see a flaw here. You are applying a form of extreme relativism by claiming that ultimately nothing can be proven true or be a fact due to subjectivist fallacy. It's called circular reasoning and it leads nowhere except far, far away from the verifiable facts. Please refrain your discussion to scrapbooking and crafts-related subjects. For shit-stirring about a deceased Black man, head over to NSBR and knock yourself out.
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julie5
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 3,611
Jul 11, 2018 15:20:45 GMT
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Post by julie5 on Jun 28, 2020 14:44:47 GMT
It's like hearing anti-vaxxers all over again, especially the part about doing one's own research. Scary times. Blindly following what the media would have you believe is much, much scarier in my opinion. Re: George Floyd. NONE of us are blindly following anything. We SAW WITH OUR OWN FVCKING EYES AS THE MAN DIED. Period.
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Deleted
Posts: 0
Mar 29, 2024 12:08:51 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Jun 28, 2020 14:48:00 GMT
Views don't have merit based on whether they're "alternative" or "mainstream". Views have merit based on whether they comport with shared reality OR NOT.Unfortunately this theory is quite limited. Let's take George Floyd for example. Hopefully we can agree that the only person who shared George Floyd's reality was George Floyd. This would mean that nobody but George Floyd would have a view that had merit. I think we can see a flaw here. "Shared reality" doesn't mean we share each experience. It means we share the same world - the real world - that we can all see and experience. That gravity pulls things toward the center of the earth - unless counteracted by equal or opposite force, etc. "Shared reality" is a term that tries to get to what is REAL. It discounts the "it's real to me" stuff like "personal witness" that only some people experience - like visions or voices - things or beliefs that can't be proven by verifiable, repeatable testing.
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sudsy
Full Member
Posts: 132
Sept 15, 2019 12:55:18 GMT
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Post by sudsy on Jun 30, 2020 0:25:06 GMT
Unfortunately this theory is quite limited. Let's take George Floyd for example. Hopefully we can agree that the only person who shared George Floyd's reality was George Floyd. This would mean that nobody but George Floyd would have a view that had merit. I think we can see a flaw here. "Shared reality" doesn't mean we share each experience. It means we share the same world - the real world - that we can all see and experience. That gravity pulls things toward the center of the earth - unless counteracted by equal or opposite force, etc. "Shared reality" is a term that tries to get to what is REAL. It discounts the "it's real to me" stuff like "personal witness" that only some people experience - like visions or voices - things or beliefs that can't be proven by verifiable, repeatable testing. I'm sorry, I apologize as I thought we were speaking plain English. I didn't realize you were using "shared reality" as a rhetorical term.
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sudsy
Full Member
Posts: 132
Sept 15, 2019 12:55:18 GMT
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Post by sudsy on Jun 30, 2020 0:55:03 GMT
Unfortunately this theory is quite limited. Let's take George Floyd for example. Hopefully we can agree that the only person who shared George Floyd's reality was George Floyd. This would mean that nobody but George Floyd would have a view that had merit. I think we can see a flaw here. You are applying a form of extreme relativism by claiming that ultimately nothing can be proven true or be a fact due to subjectivist fallacy. It's called circular reasoning and it leads nowhere except far, far away from the verifiable facts. Please refrain your discussion to scrapbooking and crafts-related subjects. For shit-stirring about a deceased Black man, head over to NSBR and knock yourself out. I'm sorry but this just doesn't make any sense. Subjectivist fallacy: Claiming something is true for one person, but not for someone else when, in fact, it is true for everyone (objective) as demonstrated by empirical evidence. In the case of "being George Floyd" - this is true for George Floyd only (definitely not for someone else) and absolutely not "true for everyone". In addition, circular reasoning involves a circle. There is no circle in my statement, just a fact followed by an explanation to why the original statement (which has since been pronounced as involving a rhetorical statement anyway, rendering it null) is illogical. As an aside - if you wish a conversation to end, it's a good idea not to keep replying to it.
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Deleted
Posts: 0
Mar 29, 2024 12:08:51 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Jun 30, 2020 1:11:52 GMT
You are applying a form of extreme relativism by claiming that ultimately nothing can be proven true or be a fact due to subjectivist fallacy. It's called circular reasoning and it leads nowhere except far, far away from the verifiable facts. Please refrain your discussion to scrapbooking and crafts-related subjects. For shit-stirring about a deceased Black man, head over to NSBR and knock yourself out. I'm sorry but this just doesn't make any sense. Subjectivist fallacy: Claiming something is true for one person, but not for someone else when, in fact, it is true for everyone (objective) as demonstrated by empirical evidence. In the case of "being George Floyd" - this is true for George Floyd only (definitely not for someone else) and absolutely not "true for everyone". In addition, circular reasoning involves a circle. There is no circle in my statement, just a fact followed by an explanation to why the original statement (which has since been pronounced as involving a rhetorical statement anyway, rendering it null) is illogical. As an aside - if you wish a conversation to end, it's a good idea not to keep replying to it. George Floyd's reality is/was/has been true for TOO MANY POC for TOO LONG. And that is the tragedy behind BLM and too many POC lives. That is why the country (and even the craft corners of the country) have had it w/the "few bad apples" bs and the "I don't care about politics" privilege. And yes, I love to escape as much as the next person - provided my escape isn't 24/7/365 and finds a space to deal with the sh#(*$ in the world rather than ignoring it and wishing it away.
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Deleted
Posts: 0
Mar 29, 2024 12:08:51 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Jul 13, 2020 12:58:54 GMT
Absolutely heart-breaking to hear how Tim/Mario responded to opinions on the inclusion of George Floyd art into their FB groups.
As I said in the DEI thraed,
Is this disappointing enough to make me stop supporting him?
Yeah. Without some mitigation/response from him? Yeah.
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Deleted
Posts: 0
Mar 29, 2024 12:08:51 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Jul 13, 2020 13:18:55 GMT
Off to support Lara ink-road-stamps.myshopify.com/And not surprised AT ALL that Simon Says Stamp pulled all her products from their shop. I've been avoiding them for a while due to their terrible shipping times. Now I have a real reason to stay away forever. Like these beauties
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msliz
Drama Llama
The Procrastinator
Posts: 6,419
Jun 26, 2014 21:32:34 GMT
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Post by msliz on Jul 13, 2020 13:50:12 GMT
Absolutely heart-breaking to hear how Tim/Mario responded to opinions on the inclusion of George Floyd art into their FB groups. As I said in the DEI thraed, Is this disappointing enough to make me stop supporting him? Yeah. Without some mitigation/response from him? Yeah. Omg, @zingermack, please give this issue its own thread. Their behavior is disgusting. I'm so angry!
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Post by Skellinton on Jul 13, 2020 14:43:47 GMT
Absolutely heart-breaking to hear how Tim/Mario responded to opinions on the inclusion of George Floyd art into their FB groups. As I said in the DEI thraed, Is this disappointing enough to make me stop supporting him? Yeah. Without some mitigation/response from him? Yeah. Omg, @zingermack , please give this issue its own thread. Their behavior is disgusting. I'm so angry! I agree. To say I am disgusted is beyond an understatement.
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julie5
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 3,611
Jul 11, 2018 15:20:45 GMT
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Post by julie5 on Jul 13, 2020 14:51:56 GMT
Absolutely heart-breaking to hear how Tim/Mario responded to opinions on the inclusion of George Floyd art into their FB groups. As I said in the DEI thraed, Is this disappointing enough to make me stop supporting him? Yeah. Without some mitigation/response from him? Yeah. Omg, @zingermack, please give this issue its own thread. Their behavior is disgusting. I'm so angry! WHAT THE FUCK. SERIOUSLY. WHO DOES THIS?’ This certainly needs its own thread. I don’t purchase Tim’s products but was actually looking at his stamps last night for possible purchase. Not now and not ever.
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julie5
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 3,611
Jul 11, 2018 15:20:45 GMT
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Post by julie5 on Jul 13, 2020 14:54:37 GMT
Off to support Lara ink-road-stamps.myshopify.com/And not surprised AT ALL that Simon Says Stamp pulled all her products from their shop. I've been avoiding them for a while due to their terrible shipping times. Now I have a real reason to stay away forever. Like these beauties I was going to buy these before I watched the video because they are gorgeous. Now I’m buying out of principal (if there’s any left lol)
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Deleted
Posts: 0
Mar 29, 2024 12:08:51 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Jul 13, 2020 15:00:22 GMT
I feel like I've posted here and have started other threads on this issue.
But if folks would like to make it its own thread, please do.
It takes all of us working together to end the silencing of non-white, non-male and/or other silenced voices.
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Post by Skellinton on Jul 13, 2020 15:06:49 GMT
I feel like I've posted here and have started other threads on this issue. But if folks would like to make it its own thread, please do. It takes all of us working together to end the silencing of non-white, non-male and/or other silenced voices. I don’t know how to imbed videos unless they are from Instagram otherwise I would. Hopefully someone savvy will start one. This needs to be shared far and wide!
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julie5
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 3,611
Jul 11, 2018 15:20:45 GMT
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Post by julie5 on Jul 13, 2020 15:07:51 GMT
I feel like I've posted here and have started other threads on this issue. But if folks would like to make it its own thread, please do. It takes all of us working together to end the silencing of non-white, non-male and/or other silenced voices. I don’t know how to imbed videos unless they are from Instagram otherwise I would. Hopefully someone savvy will start one. This needs to be shared far and wide! Same.
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Kerri W
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 3,763
Location: Kentucky
Jun 25, 2014 20:31:44 GMT
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Post by Kerri W on Jul 13, 2020 15:08:40 GMT
I don't support Lara for other reasons, so I will not be purchasing any more of her products. Honestly I was prepared to give her a big 'ol eyeroll and move on with my day. But I think what she is saying this time has a lot of merit. I really want to hear from the TH camp on this. I am, obviously, someone who votes with my $$ and I won't be purchasing from TH until there is some type of explanation.
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julie5
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 3,611
Jul 11, 2018 15:20:45 GMT
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Post by julie5 on Jul 13, 2020 15:10:05 GMT
Created a thread.
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Post by Skellinton on Jul 13, 2020 15:10:30 GMT
I don't support Lara for other reasons, so I will not be purchasing any more of her products. Honestly I was prepared to give her a big 'ol eyeroll and move on with my day. But I think what she is saying this time has a lot of merit. I really want to hear from the TH camp on this. I am, obviously, someone who votes with my $$ and I won't be purchasing from TH until there is some type of explanation. Can you share why you won’t support her?
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Post by sleepingbooty on Jul 13, 2020 15:11:30 GMT
I feel like I've posted here and have started other threads on this issue. But if folks would like to make it its own thread, please do. It takes all of us working together to end the silencing of non-white, non-male and/or other silenced voices. I don’t know how to imbed videos unless they are from Instagram otherwise I would. Hopefully someone savvy will start one. This needs to be shared far and wide! Instead of Quick Reply, hit the Reply button that'll take you to the larger Create Post reply function. In the horizontal tool bar at the top, select the clapperboard icon. The 'Insert Video' box will pop up. Paste your YouTube link. Hit the 'Insert Video' button at the bottom of the pop-up box. Voilà.
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Kerri W
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 3,763
Location: Kentucky
Jun 25, 2014 20:31:44 GMT
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Post by Kerri W on Jul 13, 2020 15:19:20 GMT
I don't support Lara for other reasons, so I will not be purchasing any more of her products. Honestly I was prepared to give her a big 'ol eyeroll and move on with my day. But I think what she is saying this time has a lot of merit. I really want to hear from the TH camp on this. I am, obviously, someone who votes with my $$ and I won't be purchasing from TH until there is some type of explanation. Can you share why you won’t support her? I don't agree with the way she attacks and calls out people by name. She's a bully.
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Post by Skellinton on Jul 13, 2020 15:21:05 GMT
Can you share why you won’t support her? I don't agree with the way she attacks and calls out people by name. She's a bully. Calling out Tim and Mario by name seems necessary. I guess I don’t see a problem with calling out people by name for being racist and bullies themselves.
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Kerri W
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 3,763
Location: Kentucky
Jun 25, 2014 20:31:44 GMT
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Post by Kerri W on Jul 13, 2020 15:24:05 GMT
I don't agree with the way she attacks and calls out people by name. She's a bully. Calling out Tim and Mario by name seems necessary. I guess I don’t see a problem with calling out people by name for being racist and bullies themselves. I should have been more clear. I agree in this instance that Mario, Tim and Zoe should be called out. I'm talking about the viciousness she has towards regular crafters who use products they purchase from places like AliExpress, etc.
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Post by Skellinton on Jul 13, 2020 16:02:53 GMT
Calling out Tim and Mario by name seems necessary. I guess I don’t see a problem with calling out people by name for being racist and bullies themselves. I should have been more clear. I agree in this instance that Mario, Tim and Zoe should be called out. I'm talking about the viciousness she has towards regular crafters who use products they purchase from places like AliExpress, etc. Ok, thank you for clarifying. I haven’t ever seen her before so I don’t know anything about her. Thank you for the information. So much hate and pettiness in this craft, are quilters or knitters as awful?
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Post by mich5481 on Jul 13, 2020 17:04:15 GMT
Calling out Tim and Mario by name seems necessary. I guess I don’t see a problem with calling out people by name for being racist and bullies themselves. I should have been more clear. I agree in this instance that Mario, Tim and Zoe should be called out. I'm talking about the viciousness she has towards regular crafters who use products they purchase from places like AliExpress, etc. I think it's because those sites steal her artwork and basically take money that could have otherwise gone to her.
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Post by lisacharlotte on Jul 13, 2020 17:45:14 GMT
Lara was the recipient (in my opinion) of some online bullying/trolling from the planner community years ago over her less than effusive product review. That’s when she first popped on my radar. I’m not going to condemn her for calling out piracy of her designs on AliExpress. If you don’t like the criticism, don’t steal. This isn't a loaf of bread to feed your starving children.
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Post by hop2 on Jul 13, 2020 17:50:13 GMT
Who is Lara & why is Tim holtz so threatened by her that he’s making places drop her stuff?
And do companies really act that way in 2020? Someone says to exclude another designer and you jump to do it immediately? Wtf?
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Deleted
Posts: 0
Mar 29, 2024 12:08:51 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Jul 13, 2020 17:58:27 GMT
Who is Lara & why is Tim holtz so threatened by her that he’s making places drop her stuff? And do companies really act that way in 2020? Someone says to exclude another designer and you jump to do it immediately? Wtf? Like most things, it's power dynamics. If Tim threatens to walk if SSS keeps Lara's stamps, they'll cave. They follow the money - like most companies. That's why boycotting is so effective. Let's use that to help in pushing back against the status quo and systemic racism and ignoring BIPOC in this craft! Put your money where your principles are.
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Post by hop2 on Jul 13, 2020 18:18:38 GMT
Who is Lara & why is Tim holtz so threatened by her that he’s making places drop her stuff? And do companies really act that way in 2020? Someone says to exclude another designer and you jump to do it immediately? Wtf? Like most things, it's power dynamics. If Tim threatens to walk if SSS keeps Lara's stamps, they'll cave. They follow the money - like most companies. That's why boycotting is so effective. Let's use that to help in pushing back against the status quo and systemic racism and ignoring BIPOC in this craft! Put your money where your principles are. I don’t k ow what’s going down between Tim & Lara, he clearly has it out for her BUT it is very clear what MARIO said to the other artist was a threat- you’ll never work again. And that kind of threat is not tolerable simply because the person asked a question. He has not addressed the threat Mario made. Not at all. So I guess he is ok with Mario threatening a person career simply because they asked why things were deleted? Who does that? What an asshat. Good lord
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