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Post by crimsoncat05 on Jun 30, 2020 23:08:06 GMT
The only suppression of COVID numbers I’ve been seeing are those in Florida and Texas, where their republican leaders are suppressing the numbers from being reported in accurately. aww, c'mon- YOU know why; IOKIYAR!!
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MizIndependent
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Quit your bullpoop.
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Jun 25, 2014 19:43:16 GMT
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Post by MizIndependent on Jun 30, 2020 23:13:10 GMT
What tracyarts said makes sense and I agree with it. I still don’t understand what you were saying. Seems to me like you are inferring nefarious intent (to take merge’s term) and I don’t agree with that. I think it’s a big stretch to see nefarious intent here. I don't think there's any nefarious intent, just pure, unadulterated stupidity. Everyone should be accountable. Everyone.
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MizIndependent
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Quit your bullpoop.
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Post by MizIndependent on Jun 30, 2020 23:15:27 GMT
And another thing.... I have have yet to see/hear that Democrats/liberals are trying to “hide” results of positive COVID testing because of protests. I hear/read a lot of republicans are saying that the Democrats don’t want it reported, but nothing that anyone is trying to hide it... The only suppression of COVID numbers I’ve been seeing are those in Florida, Georgia and Texas, where their republican leaders are suppressing the numbers from being reported in accurately. And that is disgusting behavior. All are accountable or none can be made accountable. This is beyond politics (or it should be).
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Post by SockMonkey on Jun 30, 2020 23:16:48 GMT
In case anyone is wondering (because information is power), these are the CDC guidelines for contact tracer questioning: www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/php/notification-of-exposure.htmlTHERE ARE NO QUESTIONS ABOUT GATHERINGS OF ANY KIND, including attending church or, say, political rallies in Oklahoma.It would be a waste of a contact tracer's time to ask someone if they attended a protest, because they would never be able to contact trace a protest, rally, or other very large gathering. A contact tracer is contacting you because you have ALREADY been exposed and the goal is to minimize further exposure to others, not necessarily to locate patient zero. So, COVID-19 is still bad, wear your fucking mask, and stop with this bullshit.
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Deleted
Posts: 0
Apr 25, 2024 3:54:58 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Jun 30, 2020 23:20:47 GMT
In case anyone is wondering (because information is power), these are the CDC guidelines for contact tracer questioning: www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/php/notification-of-exposure.htmlTHERE ARE NO QUESTIONS ABOUT GATHERINGS OF ANY KIND, including attending church or, say, political rallies in Oklahoma.It would be a waste of a contact tracer's time to ask someone if they attended a protest, because they would never be able to contact trace a protest, rally, or other very large gathering. A contact tracer is contacting you because you have ALREADY been exposed and the goal is to minimize further exposure to others, not necessarily to locate patient zero. So, COVID-19 is still bad, wear your fucking mask, and stop with this bullshit. Then quit trying to claim that any one event did or didn't cause numbers to rise.
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MizIndependent
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Quit your bullpoop.
Posts: 5,836
Jun 25, 2014 19:43:16 GMT
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Post by MizIndependent on Jun 30, 2020 23:22:01 GMT
In case anyone is wondering (because information is power), these are the CDC guidelines for contact tracer questioning: www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/php/notification-of-exposure.htmlTHERE ARE NO QUESTIONS ABOUT GATHERINGS OF ANY KIND, including attending church or, say, political rallies in Oklahoma.It would be a waste of a contact tracer's time to ask someone if they attended a protest, because they would never be able to contact trace a protest, rally, or other very large gathering. A contact tracer is contacting you because you have ALREADY been exposed and the goal is to minimize further exposure to others, not necessarily to locate patient zero. So, COVID-19 is still bad, wear your fucking mask, and stop with this bullshit. Of course it's bad...that's my point. Exempting an entire data point (whether it be a protest, church or whatever) is irresponsible BECAUSE it's so bad. If you think it's bullshit then I don't know what to tell you. I guess that's your choice.
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Post by crimsoncat05 on Jun 30, 2020 23:25:59 GMT
Then quit trying to claim that any one event did or didn't cause numbers to rise. where did Sock ever claim such a thing? I didn't see it anywhere.
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Post by freecharlie on Jun 30, 2020 23:27:13 GMT
Curious if they’re proactively asking about any type of gathering. Are they specifically asking people if they’ve been to church? To a particular restaurant? To a specific bar or club? Or are they just asking people who test positive where they’ve been around other people, and including all answers including protests. If they’re not asking about any specific venue, I don’t see why it’s some nefarious plot if they don’t ask about protests. While it’s hard to say for certain where any one person got the virus, it’s my understanding that the way contact tracing works is that you compile all the answers and look for similarities. If 18 people were at X bar on X date and they all test positive for COVID, it’s reasonable to suspect that they might have gotten it at the bar. If 20 people were at a protest, they might have gotten it from the protest. Another way to say this: asking where people have been as yes/no questions is limiting by definition. You couldn’t possibly name all the places where someone might have gone. What you can do is say, where were you on the 1st and the 2nd? And accurately compile the answers. I think it’s a big stretch to see nefarious intent here. i do think they should ask about places of gathering. I think anywhere they may have come into contact with others, especially outside their social circle is important. I think it is disingenuous to not be able to ask if a person was in a large gathering and then prove for what that gathering was, whether it was a protest or a church congregation
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Post by freecharlie on Jun 30, 2020 23:28:51 GMT
In case anyone is wondering (because information is power), these are the CDC guidelines for contact tracer questioning: www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/php/notification-of-exposure.htmlTHERE ARE NO QUESTIONS ABOUT GATHERINGS OF ANY KIND, including attending church or, say, political rallies in Oklahoma.It would be a waste of a contact tracer's time to ask someone if they attended a protest, because they would never be able to contact trace a protest, rally, or other very large gathering. A contact tracer is contacting you because you have ALREADY been exposed and the goal is to minimize further exposure to others, not necessarily to locate patient zero. So, COVID-19 is still bad, wear your fucking mask, and stop with this bullshit. Right, but if they could say 20 people that attended x have tested positive, then the people at that event could decide to go get tested
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AmeliaBloomer
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Posts: 6,842
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Jun 26, 2014 5:01:45 GMT
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Post by AmeliaBloomer on Jun 30, 2020 23:30:02 GMT
Big breath. This is a very poorly written article.
In the series of bolded summaries at the top (which many people will solely read), the writer (well, probably an editor) makes this claim: “The policy marks a balanced approach between public health and respecting public outrage about police violence against Black Americans.”
Interesting. Tell me more.
So he doubles down inside the article: “City and state officials appear to be striking a fine balance between making pandemic-related assessments, on the one hand, and supporting protests against racism and police violence, on the other.” Problem is he offers absolutely no evidence OR quote OR source to support the claim of protest support. Zilch. As written (“appear to be”) it appears to be (heh) an an invention/assumption of the writer, especially when the claim is immediately followed by a quote that bizarrely has NOTHING to do with said claim.
But it gets weirder. Within the article there IS evidence explicitly included about public officials having made statements that erroneously linked contact tracing with police tracing of political activity, a connection that could interfere with trust building in ACTUAL contact tracing. So why no mention of that SOURCED reason/evidence in the bolded summary? Instead, they choose to emphasize speculation as fact? Without evidence? TWICE?!
Bad writing? Poor editing and summarizing by an editor? I’ll reserve judgement on the actual issue of the thread until I read an appreciably better written/sourced piece. This is why I rarely click on Business Insider anymore. Really cr@ppy writing.
And yes, I am aware that my reply is longer than the article. Speaking of cr@ppy writing...
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Post by SockMonkey on Jun 30, 2020 23:30:54 GMT
In case anyone is wondering (because information is power), these are the CDC guidelines for contact tracer questioning: www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/php/notification-of-exposure.htmlTHERE ARE NO QUESTIONS ABOUT GATHERINGS OF ANY KIND, including attending church or, say, political rallies in Oklahoma.It would be a waste of a contact tracer's time to ask someone if they attended a protest, because they would never be able to contact trace a protest, rally, or other very large gathering. A contact tracer is contacting you because you have ALREADY been exposed and the goal is to minimize further exposure to others, not necessarily to locate patient zero. So, COVID-19 is still bad, wear your fucking mask, and stop with this bullshit. Then quit trying to claim that any one event did or didn't cause numbers to rise. Uh, I didn't. You are not digesting my post. Contact tracing is not a gotcha. It's a "you've been exposed, who else is in close quarters to you that you may also expose that we can reasonably contact to perform further contact tracing." That's why broader messages via other organizations are important; social distancing and masking still important wherever you go, whether a protest or the grocery store. Period.
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Post by SockMonkey on Jun 30, 2020 23:32:48 GMT
Big breath. This is a very poorly written article. In the series of bolded summaries at the top (which many people will solely read), the writer (well, probably an editor) makes this claim: “ The policy marks a balanced approach between public health and respecting public outrage about police violence against Black Americans.”
Interesting. Tell me more. AND, he doubles down: “ City and state officials appear to be striking a fine balance between making pandemic-related assessments, on the one hand, and supporting protests against racism and police violence, on the other.” Problem is he offers absolutely no evidence OR quote OR source to support the claim. Zilch. As written (“ appear to be”) it appears to be (heh) an an invention/assumption of the writer, especially when the claim is immediately followed by a quote that bizarrely has NOTHING to do with said claim. But it gets weirder. Within the article there IS evidence explicitly included about public officials having made statements that erroneously linked contact tracing with police tracing of political activity, a connection that could interfere with trust building in ACTUAL contact tracing. But there’s no mention of that SOURCED reason/evidence in the bolded summary. Instead, we get speculation as fact? Bad writing? Poor editing and summarizing by an editor? I’ll reserve judgement on the actual issue of the thread until I read an appreciably better written/sourced piece. This is why I rarely click on Business Insider anymore. Really cr@ppy writing. And yes, I am aware that my reply is longer than the article. Speaking of cr@ppy writing... Business Insider often feels like sentences pulled from other sources by a bot and barfed out.
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johnnysmom
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Jun 25, 2014 21:16:33 GMT
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Post by johnnysmom on Jun 30, 2020 23:32:54 GMT
Curious if they’re proactively asking about any type of gathering. Are they specifically asking people if they’ve been to church? To a particular restaurant? To a specific bar or club? Or are they just asking people who test positive where they’ve been around other people, and including all answers including protests. They must be asking something because in my state they've been able to link 100+ people to a specific bar, that includes a handful of people who didn't visit that bar yet contracted it from someone who did. So, yes, I think they should ask about protests (I don't know if they are or not here, I haven't seen any reports).
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AmeliaBloomer
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Jun 26, 2014 5:01:45 GMT
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Post by AmeliaBloomer on Jun 30, 2020 23:33:24 GMT
Story Time!
This whole topic made me remember something. A student’s mother worked for the public health department interviewing people with syphilis and then contacting the sexual partners.
Many men would give her the names of female sexual partners. If she followed up with any questions using the words “gay” or “homosexual” or “bisexual” or “same sex,” they would say no, nope, not me.
If she instead followed up with a question about any male sexual partners in addition to female partners, they would say yes and give her names.
She said there was a whole science to getting honest answers.
‘Kay, turn off the lights and go to sleep. (Well, maybe just the Brits.)
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MizIndependent
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Quit your bullpoop.
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Jun 25, 2014 19:43:16 GMT
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Post by MizIndependent on Jun 30, 2020 23:33:49 GMT
That's why broader messages via other organizations are important; social distancing and masking still important wherever you go, whether a protest or the grocery store. Period. I bet they want to know what grocery store you've been to. Makes sense they should ask about both.
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Post by SockMonkey on Jun 30, 2020 23:34:30 GMT
In case anyone is wondering (because information is power), these are the CDC guidelines for contact tracer questioning: www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/php/notification-of-exposure.htmlTHERE ARE NO QUESTIONS ABOUT GATHERINGS OF ANY KIND, including attending church or, say, political rallies in Oklahoma.It would be a waste of a contact tracer's time to ask someone if they attended a protest, because they would never be able to contact trace a protest, rally, or other very large gathering. A contact tracer is contacting you because you have ALREADY been exposed and the goal is to minimize further exposure to others, not necessarily to locate patient zero. So, COVID-19 is still bad, wear your fucking mask, and stop with this bullshit. Right, but if they could say 20 people that attended x have tested positive, then the people at that event could decide to go get tested I think that messaging needs to happen in a different forum than contact tracing, and the public should be made aware and continuously reminded that large group gatherings of any kind increase risk. Everything is about risk mitigation and scale; larger gatherings = greater risk. No masks = greater risk. It's a continuum.
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Post by SockMonkey on Jun 30, 2020 23:35:30 GMT
Story Time! This whole topic made me remember something. A student’s mother worked for the public health department interviewing people with syphilis and then contacting the sexual partners. Many men would give her the names of female sexual partners. If she followed up with any questions using the words “gay” or “homosexual” or “bisexual” or “same sex,” they would say no, nope, not me. If she instead followed up with a question about any male sexual partners in addition to female partners, they would say yes and give her names. She said there was a whole science to getting honest answers. ‘Kay, turn off the lights and go to sleep. (Well, maybe just the Brits.) A reason why librarians are being sought to be contact tracers. Good at sussing out info and building trust. Patron interviewing is a skill.
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Post by SockMonkey on Jun 30, 2020 23:37:35 GMT
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Post by Merge on Jun 30, 2020 23:44:34 GMT
Curious if they’re proactively asking about any type of gathering. Are they specifically asking people if they’ve been to church? To a particular restaurant? To a specific bar or club? Or are they just asking people who test positive where they’ve been around other people, and including all answers including protests. If they’re not asking about any specific venue, I don’t see why it’s some nefarious plot if they don’t ask about protests. While it’s hard to say for certain where any one person got the virus, it’s my understanding that the way contact tracing works is that you compile all the answers and look for similarities. If 18 people were at X bar on X date and they all test positive for COVID, it’s reasonable to suspect that they might have gotten it at the bar. If 20 people were at a protest, they might have gotten it from the protest. Another way to say this: asking where people have been as yes/no questions is limiting by definition. You couldn’t possibly name all the places where someone might have gone. What you can do is say, where were you on the 1st and the 2nd? And accurately compile the answers. I think it’s a big stretch to see nefarious intent here. i do think they should ask about places of gathering. I think anywhere they may have come into contact with others, especially outside their social circle is important. I think it is disingenuous to not be able to ask if a person was in a large gathering and then prove for what that gathering was, whether it was a protest or a church congregation But what if they miss something? To me it makes much more sense if the questioning is Where did you go on Monday? Target Where did you go on Tuesday? Applebee’s Where did you go on Wednesday? Protest in Memorial Park. Obviously they’re going to ask people to be specific. Applebee’s, not just a restaurant. Jake’s, not just a bar. It would be impossible in most places for them to ask specifically about each place of gathering.
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Post by Merge on Jun 30, 2020 23:48:23 GMT
Curious if they’re proactively asking about any type of gathering. Are they specifically asking people if they’ve been to church? To a particular restaurant? To a specific bar or club? Or are they just asking people who test positive where they’ve been around other people, and including all answers including protests. They must be asking something because in my state they've been able to link 100+ people to a specific bar, that includes a handful of people who didn't visit that bar yet contracted it from someone who did. So, yes, I think they should ask about protests (I don't know if they are or not here, I haven't seen any reports). They link them to a specific bar by saying, where did you go Friday night, and when 100 people say, Jake’s Bar, they know they’re onto something. Literally that’s how it works. They ask people to retrace their steps for the two weeks or so before they tested positive. Asking in a city the size of Houston did you go here or did you go there would be like looking for needles in a haystack. They can do the same thing with protests.
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AmeliaBloomer
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Post by AmeliaBloomer on Jun 30, 2020 23:49:17 GMT
SockMonkey said: Heh. And this is what is wrong with the American bot educational system. Somebody alert Betsy DeVos.
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MizIndependent
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Jun 25, 2014 19:43:16 GMT
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Post by MizIndependent on Jun 30, 2020 23:51:09 GMT
Perhaps not the grocery store, however..."Tracers will also ask about the individual’s work environment, ' and other events they may have recently attended, to help recall additional contacts,' she said." [Source: Gothamist, a left-center publisher]
Which I think is completely appropriate.
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Post by Merge on Jun 30, 2020 23:52:59 GMT
I think it’s a big stretch to see nefarious intent here. I don't think there's any nefarious intent, just pure, unadulterated stupidity. Everyone should be accountable. Everyone. How are people not being accountable? You clearly don’t understand how contact tracing works. They’re not going to ask you yes or no questions about where you were. They’re going to ask you to retrace your steps. When they get to the day you attended a protest, you say, I went to this specific protest in this place. When they get to the next day, you say where you went that day. The job of the contact tracer is to collect all information about where the person went and with whom.
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MizIndependent
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Post by MizIndependent on Jun 30, 2020 23:54:22 GMT
It would be impossible in most places for them to ask specifically about each place of gathering. It's about collecting the data points. Data points can show where a problem is occurring. If a team of contact tracers has let's say 500 interview in a week and 82 of those cite being at Applebee's in a specific time frame it could absolutely help pinpoint where a potential problem might be in a community and contain it.
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Post by Darcy Collins on Jun 30, 2020 23:55:02 GMT
The article clearly states that the process will vary by location.
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Post by Merge on Jul 1, 2020 0:00:19 GMT
It would be impossible in most places for them to ask specifically about each place of gathering. It's about collecting the data points. Data points can show where a problem is occurring. If a team of contact tracers has let's say 500 interview in a week and 82 of those cite being at Applebee's in a specific time frame it could absolutely help pinpoint where a potential problem might be in a community and contain it. Yes, but if the community has 500 restaurants, what makes more sense - asking each person if they were at each of the 500 restaurants by name, or asking each person where specifically they were during the time frame being studied, and looking at the data for matches after the fact?
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Deleted
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Apr 25, 2024 3:54:58 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Jul 1, 2020 0:02:42 GMT
Then quit trying to claim that any one event did or didn't cause numbers to rise. where did Sock ever claim such a thing? I didn't see it anywhere. In general. Headlines of no rise in COVID from protests. Hand wringing over the Trump rally but not the protests. They are all bad and rates are rising in almost every state.
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peasquared
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Jul 6, 2014 23:59:59 GMT
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Post by peasquared on Jul 1, 2020 0:22:18 GMT
where did Sock ever claim such a thing? I didn't see it anywhere. In general. Headlines of no rise in COVID from protests. Hand wringing over the Trump rally but not the protests. They are all bad and rates are rising in almost every state. The fact that the protests were OUTSIDE and most wore masks vs the rally was INDOORS and most not wearing masks, must also be taken into consideration.
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sassyangel
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Jun 26, 2014 23:58:32 GMT
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Post by sassyangel on Jul 1, 2020 2:29:22 GMT
Our state is absolutely asking as there was a press release that an individual attending a protest had tested positive so please go and get tested. They’re asking it here too, and encouraging (free) testing for those who did. It’s actually helpful to know if outdoor activities are major sources of outbreaks, economy wise. We don’t have a shortage of them, though.
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Post by beebee on Jul 1, 2020 2:31:06 GMT
Surge in Coronavirus not linked to protests in PittsburghI can't speak to how other places are doing contact tracing but as I said, our Health Dept. is asking about protests. So far it's in the single digits even though there have been protests in the city every single day. We found out today that there is an outbreak among teens and young adults in my small town and it's entirely related to bars, parties and going to the beach. I'm honestly not being snarky here but I don't understand how a protest would not spread the virus but a beach would.
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