sassyangel
Drama Llama
Posts: 7,456
Jun 26, 2014 23:58:32 GMT
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Post by sassyangel on Jul 1, 2020 2:36:17 GMT
Big breath. This is a very poorly written article. In the series of bolded summaries at the top (which many people will solely read), the writer (well, probably an editor) makes this claim: “ The policy marks a balanced approach between public health and respecting public outrage about police violence against Black Americans.”
Interesting. Tell me more. So he doubles down inside the article: “ City and state officials appear to be striking a fine balance between making pandemic-related assessments, on the one hand, and supporting protests against racism and police violence, on the other.” Problem is he offers absolutely no evidence OR quote OR source to support the claim of protest support. Zilch. As written (“ appear to be”) it appears to be (heh) an an invention/assumption of the writer, especially when the claim is immediately followed by a quote that bizarrely has NOTHING to do with said claim. But it gets weirder. Within the article there IS evidence explicitly included about public officials having made statements that erroneously linked contact tracing with police tracing of political activity, a connection that could interfere with trust building in ACTUAL contact tracing. So why no mention of that SOURCED reason/evidence in the bolded summary? Instead, they choose to emphasize speculation as fact? Without evidence? TWICE?! Bad writing? Poor editing and summarizing by an editor? I’ll reserve judgement on the actual issue of the thread until I read an appreciably better written/sourced piece. This is why I rarely click on Business Insider anymore. Really cr@ppy writing. And yes, I am aware that my reply is longer than the article. Speaking of cr@ppy writing... Agreed, I think because their stuff is actively promoted on places like Facebook, they have come to rely on clickbait style to suck people in.
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Post by peasapie on Jul 1, 2020 2:42:17 GMT
Our state is absolutely asking as there was a press release that an individual attending a protest had tested positive so please go and get tested. This does not mean they are asking them if they were protesting. They are asking the individuals that protested to go and get tested. Once they get there, my understanding is they cannot ask if they were protesting. This was my understanding. It was a specific condition to encourage them to get tested.
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Just T
Drama Llama
Posts: 5,541
Jun 26, 2014 1:20:09 GMT
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Post by Just T on Jul 1, 2020 2:43:54 GMT
Surge in Coronavirus not linked to protests in PittsburghI can't speak to how other places are doing contact tracing but as I said, our Health Dept. is asking about protests. So far it's in the single digits even though there have been protests in the city every single day. We found out today that there is an outbreak among teens and young adults in my small town and it's entirely related to bars, parties and going to the beach. I'm honestly not being snarky here but I don't understand how a protest would not spread the virus but a beach would. Masks???
Who do you see on the beach wearing a mask??
I can't say that every person at every protest wore masks, but from what I saw, most were.
As to the OP...I agree, people should be asked where they have been. Even if real and proper contact tracing cannot be done. I think it is so important to know what those who test positive did in the days prior. Did they go to a protest, or a Trump rally, or a bar, or a beach. We need to know these things! If we don't, we are totally f*ed.
I am so angry right now and feeling like the isolation of the late winter/spring was a complete waste of time because of all the folks who got bored and tired of not being able to do what they want to do. I really fear for our country right now.
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Post by Merge on Jul 1, 2020 3:01:20 GMT
I'm honestly not being snarky here but I don't understand how a protest would not spread the virus but a beach would. Masks???
Who do you see on the beach wearing a mask??
I can't say that every person at every protest wore masks, but from what I saw, most were.
As to the OP...I agree, people should be asked where they have been. Even if real and proper contact tracing cannot be done. I think it is so important to know what those who test positive did in the days prior. Did they go to a protest, or a Trump rally, or a bar, or a beach. We need to know these things! If we don't, we are totally f*ed.
I am so angry right now and feeling like the isolation of the late winter/spring was a complete waste of time because of all the folks who got bored and tired of not being able to do what they want to do. I really fear for our country right now. Please understand, these outrage articles are trying to make you think that contract tracers don't ask people where they've been. That is not the case. We have friends where she tested positive and they went all through this. They were asked to recount every public place they'd been in the two weeks prior to her diagnosis. They were not asked specifically did you go to this place or that place. They were asked to organically state where they had been and with whom. Articles like the one the OP posted are trying to stir up further outrage against the protests and imply that some folks (media, Democratic leaders, whoever) are trying to avoid having cases traced to protests. That is not the case. It's not the normal practice to ask people if they've been specific places; it's the practice to keep data on where every positive case has been - insofar as possible given limited contact tracing available in many states - and then compare the data sets against each other to determine where community spread likely happened. This is not some big conspiracy, nor is it evidence of stupidity. Now your last paragraph, I totally agree with. All those of us who did the right thing should be angry at those who have caused it to be for nothing. I supported the protestors' message and understand the outrage that forced people to feel they had to get out in the streets, but I also wish *everyone* had followed the directives and kept masks on, avoided crowds, etc. We could have flattened the curve and we'd all be enjoying more freedom without the fear of overwhelming our hospitals again, like Europe is, but no. Here we all are.
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AmeliaBloomer
Drama Llama
Posts: 6,842
Location: USA
Jun 26, 2014 5:01:45 GMT
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Post by AmeliaBloomer on Jul 1, 2020 3:34:47 GMT
Big breath. This is a very poorly written article. In the series of bolded summaries at the top (which many people will solely read), the writer (well, probably an editor) makes this claim: “ The policy marks a balanced approach between public health and respecting public outrage about police violence against Black Americans.”
Interesting. Tell me more. So he doubles down inside the article: “ City and state officials appear to be striking a fine balance between making pandemic-related assessments, on the one hand, and supporting protests against racism and police violence, on the other.” Problem is he offers absolutely no evidence OR quote OR source to support the claim of protest support. Zilch. As written (“ appear to be”) it appears to be (heh) an an invention/assumption of the writer, especially when the claim is immediately followed by a quote that bizarrely has NOTHING to do with said claim. But it gets weirder. Within the article there IS evidence explicitly included about public officials having made statements that erroneously linked contact tracing with police tracing of political activity, a connection that could interfere with trust building in ACTUAL contact tracing. So why no mention of that SOURCED reason/evidence in the bolded summary? Instead, they choose to emphasize speculation as fact? Without evidence? TWICE?! Bad writing? Poor editing and summarizing by an editor? I’ll reserve judgement on the actual issue of the thread until I read an appreciably better written/sourced piece. This is why I rarely click on Business Insider anymore. Really cr@ppy writing. And yes, I am aware that my reply is longer than the article. Speaking of cr@ppy writing... Agreed, I think because their stuff is actively promoted on places like Facebook, they have come to rely on clickbait style to suck people in. True. Yet. Yet people used to be able to at least quickly recognize clickbait with a “Sh!t, snared again!” realization. That’s discernment. What kind of of discernment is happening in a country where painstakingly sourced investigative journalism is dismissed just ‘cuz and this article unsourced word meander, which would earn an “F” in any journalism class, is offered as proof positive of some sort of political slant that is informing public health policy? Does politics ever inform public health policy? Sure. But prove it to me. (Sorry, not ranting at you: just really discouraged in general.)
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sassyangel
Drama Llama
Posts: 7,456
Jun 26, 2014 23:58:32 GMT
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Post by sassyangel on Jul 1, 2020 3:59:49 GMT
Agreed, I think because their stuff is actively promoted on places like Facebook, they have come to rely on clickbait style to suck people in. True. Yet. Yet people used to be able to at least quickly recognize clickbait with a “Sh!t, snared again!” realization. That’s discernment. What kind of of discernment is happening in a country where painstakingly sourced investigative journalism is dismissed just ‘cuz and this article unsourced word meander, which would earn an “F” in any journalism class, is offered as proof positive of some sort of political slant that is informing public health policy? Does politics ever inform public health policy? Sure. But prove it to me. (Sorry, not ranting at you: just really discouraged in general.) Oh, it’s fine. I often rant about it myself, so rant away. It’s incredibly frustrating to me how good journalism is dismissed and discredited these these days. I’d say very little discernment, unfortunately. Most people seem to want to take their facts with a healthy dose of validation confirmation bias, these days. Critical thinking doesn’t play into it, at all.
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Post by glory77 on Jul 1, 2020 4:35:16 GMT
To me it’s obvious that a lot of people were probably exposed to the virus during the protests. Not everyone wore masks, and even if they did wear a mask, did it help to stop the spread? People that attended the peaceful protests will admit to being there, but the violent protests and rioting people will never admit they were there. But, it’s also obvious to me that people at the Trump rally, at George Floyd’s funeral, at the crowded beaches and bars have also spread the virus. If you’re in a crowd, the virus is spreading. I’m hoping that wearing a mask helps slow the spread, but if you’re in ANY type of crowd, you are risking spreading and catching the virus.
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Post by papercrafteradvocate on Jul 1, 2020 9:59:26 GMT
In general. Headlines of no rise in COVID from protests. Hand wringing over the Trump rally but not the protests. They are all bad and rates are rising in almost every state. The fact that the protests were OUTSIDE and most wore masks vs the rally was INDOORS and most not wearing masks, must also be taken into consideration. Again, those I read about “wringing hands” are republicans blaming Dems yet again. One needs to consider the trump administrations actions and statements regarding masks before the fact. If a person develops COVID and the only place they’ve gone in the last month is a protest, I don’t see anyone saying, “well we’re not going to write that down.”
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lizacreates
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 3,856
Aug 29, 2015 2:39:19 GMT
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Post by lizacreates on Jul 1, 2020 12:34:57 GMT
The question is not being asked probably because it’s of no practical help for contact tracing purposes. The purpose of contact tracing is to identify and isolate infected individuals. Even if I tested positive and a tracer asked me if I’ve participated in a recent protest, how would I identify the people near me in the protest so the tracer can contact them? So asking that question is of what value? In my city alone, there were thousands in the BLM protests. How can you even begin to do tracing on what is basically a massive group of strangers? It’s already assumed there was risk of virus transmission during the protests (nobody is denying that) and that’s why governors, mayors and health officials have been broadcasting the need for protesters to get tested. I think in addition to providing more test sites, that’s the best that can be done. The reports that have been stating no evidence has surfaced that the protests were superspreaders have been attributing it to what peasquared already mentioned – the events were outdoors and most wore masks. Additionally, one study stated many people stayed home during the protests to avoid the chaos. However, most of these reports also concede that it’s almost impossible to pinpoint the major cause of the recent spike because the protests occurred at around the same time states were in various phases of reopening. I can understand why some people are angry. They obeyed guidelines and SIP orders, endured isolation for three months, even lost their jobs due to business closings. All of a sudden hundreds of thousands of people are in large gatherings protesting while leaders and experts are cautioning about a second wave. What they see are the hypocrisy and the double standards. Why is it okay to gather en masse and protest but it was not okay to keep your business open so you can feed your family? We can say non-stop that protesting against police brutality is far more important and the risks were worth taking, but that is of no comfort to someone whose livelihood was swept away by a lockdown. It's no comfort to someone who couldn't even hold a funeral for a loved one who died. It's no comfort to someone who's facing an eviction. I do get it, but unfortunately I have nothing to offer as succor. I wish we didn’t have a pandemic that continues to sicken and kill people and decimate the economy. I also wish we didn’t have an epidemic of police brutality that disproportionately maims and kills black people. But we have both, and neither has an easy solution.
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Post by SockMonkey on Jul 1, 2020 12:55:26 GMT
The question is not being asked probably because it’s of no practical help for contact tracing purposes. The purpose of contact tracing is to identify and isolate infected individuals. Even if I tested positive and a tracer asked me if I’ve participated in a recent protest, how would I identify the people near me in the protest so the tracer can contact them? So asking that question is of what value? In my city alone, there were thousands in the BLM protests. How can you even begin to do tracing on what is basically a massive group of strangers? It’s already assumed there was risk of virus transmission during the protests (nobody is denying that) and that’s why governors, mayors and health officials have been broadcasting the need for protesters to get tested. I think in addition to providing more test sites, that’s the best that can be done. The reports that have been stating no evidence has surfaced that the protests were superspreaders have been attributing it to what peasquared already mentioned – the events were outdoors and most wore masks. Additionally, one study stated many people stayed home during the protests to avoid the chaos. However, most of these reports also concede that it’s almost impossible to pinpoint the major cause of the recent spike because the protests occurred at around the same time states were in various phases of reopening. I can understand why some people are angry. They obeyed guidelines and SIP orders, endured isolation for three months, even lost their jobs due to business closings. All of a sudden hundreds of thousands of people are in large gatherings protesting while leaders and experts are cautioning about a second wave. What they see are the hypocrisy and the double standards. Why is it okay to gather en masse and protest but it was not okay to keep your business open so you can feed your family? We can say non-stop that protesting against police brutality is far more important and the risks were worth taking, but that is of no comfort to someone whose livelihood was swept away by a lockdown. It's no comfort to someone who couldn't even hold a funeral for a loved one who died. It's no comfort to someone who's facing an eviction. I do get it, but unfortunately I have nothing to offer as succor. I wish we didn’t have a pandemic that continues to sicken and kill people and decimate the economy. I also wish we didn’t have an epidemic of police brutality that disproportionately maims and kills black people. But we have both, and neither has an easy solution. Yes. It's okay to hold two things as true and valid at the same time.
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Sarah*H
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 3,972
Jun 25, 2014 20:07:06 GMT
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Post by Sarah*H on Jul 1, 2020 13:12:10 GMT
Surge in Coronavirus not linked to protests in PittsburghI can't speak to how other places are doing contact tracing but as I said, our Health Dept. is asking about protests. So far it's in the single digits even though there have been protests in the city every single day. We found out today that there is an outbreak among teens and young adults in my small town and it's entirely related to bars, parties and going to the beach. I'm honestly not being snarky here but I don't understand how a protest would not spread the virus but a beach would. Because most people at the protests were masked.
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Post by elaine on Jul 1, 2020 15:08:26 GMT
Surge in Coronavirus not linked to protests in PittsburghI can't speak to how other places are doing contact tracing but as I said, our Health Dept. is asking about protests. So far it's in the single digits even though there have been protests in the city every single day. We found out today that there is an outbreak among teens and young adults in my small town and it's entirely related to bars, parties and going to the beach. I'm honestly not being snarky here but I don't understand how a protest would not spread the virus but a beach would. If 95% of people wear masks at the beach, then they would be equal. I haven’t seen many/any beach goers wearing masks though. Most of the people at the BLM protests wore masks.
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Post by beebee on Jul 1, 2020 16:23:53 GMT
I'm honestly not being snarky here but I don't understand how a protest would not spread the virus but a beach would. If 95% of people wear masks at the beach, then they would be equal. I haven’t seen many/any beach goers wearing masks though. Most of the people at the BLM protests wore masks. Just a quick google search of images shows that 95% of people were not wearing masks during the protests. It's great if that was the case in your area, but overall, that is not the case. I think it is fair to say that protests spread the virus as well as beaches and bars. In general, Lefties blame the spread on beaches and bars and conservatives blame the spread on protests. I wish people would quit playing politics with this virus (I'm not aiming this comment at anyone specific, just in general). m.
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Post by crimsoncat05 on Jul 1, 2020 16:52:01 GMT
Just a quick google search of images shows that 95% of people were not wearing masks during the protests. It's great if that was the case in your area, but overall, that is not the case. 'cuz we all know that Google image search shows the entire picture of what happened everywhere, right? /s
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Post by sasha on Jul 1, 2020 16:53:35 GMT
This is not surprising to me and why I was skeptical that they'd ever even report it. There have been public health officials who won't "condemn" the protests because systemic racism is worse.
I certainly hope that people would volunteer that they were at a protest or not. And I think the question should be asked.
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Post by crimsoncat05 on Jul 1, 2020 17:06:16 GMT
I certainly hope that people would volunteer that they were at a protest or not. And I think the question should be asked. how many times do people have to answer this question? Contact tracers DO ask where you've been, specifically! They don't ask random questions, they ask specific ones. That doesn't mean they DON'T find out the information!!
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Post by beebee on Jul 1, 2020 17:16:56 GMT
Just a quick google search of images shows that 95% of people were not wearing masks during the protests. It's great if that was the case in your area, but overall, that is not the case. 'cuz we all know that Google image search shows the entire picture of what happened everywhere, right? /s We can go back and forth on this but it's silly. There were plenty of news images and I watched many people I know post pics from the protests they attended. You don't know what percent wore masks just like I don't. I do know there were many, many that did not. And I do know that the protests spread the virus. Just like the non-mask wearers and some of the beach goers spread the virus.
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Just T
Drama Llama
Posts: 5,541
Jun 26, 2014 1:20:09 GMT
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Post by Just T on Jul 1, 2020 17:18:03 GMT
I wish people would quit playing politics with this virus (I'm not aiming this comment at anyone specific, just in general). I certainly 1000000000% agree with you on that. I have said from the beginning that this should absolutely NOT be a political issue. Sadly, our president made it one from the beginning when he said it was a hoax by the Democrats. And when he over the top praised Republican governors for what a great job they were doing while saying about a Democratic governor that he doesn't like him and wouldn't even talk to him. And he still is, when he says things like he said a week or two ago, that people only wear masks because they want to make him look stupid. So yeah. This pandemic should not be about politics. But it is because Trump made it one.
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peasquared
Drama Llama
Posts: 5,433
Jul 6, 2014 23:59:59 GMT
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Post by peasquared on Jul 1, 2020 17:34:07 GMT
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Post by beebee on Jul 1, 2020 17:47:23 GMT
I did. I put 2020 and George Floyd. It is a complete mixture. Some pics show many mask wearers and some show very few.
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peasquared
Drama Llama
Posts: 5,433
Jul 6, 2014 23:59:59 GMT
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Post by peasquared on Jul 1, 2020 17:52:04 GMT
Still not seeing 95% without masks.
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Post by sasha on Jul 1, 2020 17:58:09 GMT
I certainly hope that people would volunteer that they were at a protest or not. And I think the question should be asked. how many times do people have to answer this question? Contact tracers DO ask where you've been, specifically! They don't ask random questions, they ask specific ones. That doesn't mean they DON'T find out the information!! They should ask the question directly: Have you been involved in mass gatherings? Were you at a BLM protest? Were you at a Trump rally? I think the people who were in a mass gathering have a right to know, for their own health, if a person that was at the same rally was diagnosed. I believe everyone that was around this Reopen America asshole have the right to know who has it if they attended a rally. He won't help tracers. ReOpen co-founder tests positive, won't help tracers
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Just T
Drama Llama
Posts: 5,541
Jun 26, 2014 1:20:09 GMT
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Post by Just T on Jul 1, 2020 18:10:08 GMT
Still not seeing 95% without masks. I know. Everything I saw on tv, locally and other places, showed the majority of the protestors wearing masks. Now the rioters, probably not.
On the other hand, very people shown from Trumps two rallies had on masks. Packed together indoors.
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Post by sasha on Jul 1, 2020 18:14:00 GMT
From the photos I saw of the BLM protests around my area, I would say 95% or more had masks on.
I really hope there is not uptick b/c of the protests; but if they can't ask the direct question about BLM or Trump rallies, I'm not confident about the data.
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Post by elaine on Jul 1, 2020 19:07:00 GMT
I did. I put 2020 and George Floyd. It is a complete mixture. Some pics show many mask wearers and some show very few. All I can tell you is that the local protests that I went to and that were covered on the news had at least 95% of people wearing masks. The national media coverage that I have watched on ABC, NBC and CNN also have shown protests across the country where masking wearing appears to be at around 95%. The overwhelming majority of 2020 BLM protestors were/are wearing masks. The same cannot be said of people attending Trump rallies. I understand that you don’t like the politicization of mask wearing and testing, but that has very little to do with the left and very much to do with Trump who has definitely made mask wearing (or more specifically, NOT wearing) a political statement.
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Deleted
Posts: 0
Apr 25, 2024 20:09:15 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Jul 1, 2020 20:45:57 GMT
I did. I put 2020 and George Floyd. It is a complete mixture. Some pics show many mask wearers and some show very few. All I can tell you is that the local protests that I went to and that were covered on the news had at least 95% of people wearing masks. The national media coverage that I have watched on ABC, NBC and CNN also have shown protests across the country where masking wearing appears to be at around 95%. The overwhelming majority of 2020 BLM protestors were/are wearing masks. The same cannot be said of people attending Trump rallies. I understand that you don’t like the politicization of mask wearing and testing, but that has very little to do with the left and very much to do with Trump who has definitely made mask wearing (or more specifically, NOT wearing) a political statement. I’m not sure they were because I did an awful lot of yelling at the tv because of how many people I saw that weren’t wearing masks during the protests I saw on tv. The latest yelling event happened a couple of days ago when this group was walking arm & arm down the street and the majority in this particular group were not wearing masks. Some of the people behind them that were milling around these guys were wearing masks. But regardless of how many were or were not wearing masks, it has to be 100% wearing masks to have any hope of stoping the spread of the virus. Anything less and the very real possibility exists that the virus will spread to others. That is what so scary about this virus, you can have it, not know it and spread it all over the place.
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amom23
Drama Llama
Posts: 5,328
Jun 27, 2014 12:39:18 GMT
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Post by amom23 on Jul 1, 2020 22:21:43 GMT
Trump said again in an interview today that the virus is just going to go away and disappear one day. What an effing idiot! A record breaking 48,000+ people became infected today as well.
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Post by Merge on Jul 1, 2020 23:22:38 GMT
Well, MizIndependent, I guess you can be glad after all this discussion that no one came after you for the use of “locking down” in your title.
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Post by Scrapper100 on Jul 1, 2020 23:58:43 GMT
Trump said again in an interview today that the virus is just going to go away and disappear one day. What an effing idiot! A record breaking 48,000+ people became infected today as well. Un}%<€*< believable. What an irresponsible thing to say. Of course locally they all believe it’s a hoax and will disappear the day after the election.
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Just T
Drama Llama
Posts: 5,541
Jun 26, 2014 1:20:09 GMT
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Post by Just T on Jul 2, 2020 0:32:58 GMT
Trump said again in an interview today that the virus is just going to go away and disappear one day. What an effing idiot! A record breaking 48,000+ people became infected today as well. Un}%<€*< believable. What an irresponsible thing to say. Of course locally they all believe it’s a hoax and will disappear the day after the election. Shameful. I have no words left for this horrible human being who calls himself a leader anymore. And to think that there are STILL people who love him, defend him and think he is a great president. It is mind boggling.
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