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Post by scrapmaven on Jul 1, 2020 15:32:23 GMT
He sounds nuts. I'm not sure what to advise, but he sounds like a scary weirdo, I think I'd probably classify him as YOU PEOPLE. I'm sorry this happened to you.
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ashley
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Jun 17, 2016 12:36:53 GMT
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Post by ashley on Jul 1, 2020 15:32:43 GMT
Before doing anything, I suggest you examine whether you are more upset about the fact that he did this or about how you handled it at the time. Currently at the beach so replying quickly. I’m upset he negated the law and destroyed my personal property. Bullying me into compliance by threatening groundless eviction is also against the landlord tenant act. If we were required to submit in writing dates of us being here we would have done so. My mother informed the office she would not be here this summer but I would be. I also know that I do not need to inform the office of any visitors. Sorry if I missed a question!
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Post by Darcy Collins on Jul 1, 2020 15:41:12 GMT
Hopefully your mother can find her copy of the lease as well as a current rules/regulations for the property. Tenant laws are extremely dependent on location, so I'm not going to offer an opinion as I'm unfamiliar with Canadian laws. One thing to look for is whether there is an exception to notice for health and safety violations. I'm not sure whether they'd be able to prove it, but that could be their reasoning around giving property notice. If cannabis is excluded in the lease (and it is in many leases - especially AFTER it was made legal) or in the rules and regulations referred to in the lease and they claim a safety violation - it may be a more difficult process to prove that he owes you for the value of the plants. I would absolutely expect the lease to not be renewed, so depending on when it expires may drive how quickly your mom has to sell the trailer.
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ashley
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Posts: 3,400
Jun 17, 2016 12:36:53 GMT
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Post by ashley on Jul 1, 2020 15:45:26 GMT
Hopefully your mother can find her copy of the lease as well as a current rules/regulations for the property. Tenant laws are extremely dependent on location, so I'm not going to offer an opinion as I'm unfamiliar with Canadian laws. One thing to look for is whether there is an exception to notice for health and safety violations. I'm not sure whether they'd be able to prove it, but that could be their reasoning around giving property notice. If cannabis is excluded in the lease (and it is in many leases - especially AFTER it was made legal) or in the rules and regulations referred to in the lease and they claim a safety violation - it may be a more difficult process to prove that he owes you for the value of the plants. I would absolutely expect the lease to not be renewed, so depending on when it expires may drive how quickly your mom has to sell the trailer. Nothing in the laws that allow a landlord to enter property without notice for cannabis. I’ve read extensively on landlord advice websites and they all day 24 hrs notice is required when inspecting for cannabis plants. There is no health and safety provisions for cannabis plants. Also if they changed the rules or updated them they were required to notify us in writing, or by posting the rules on the trailer door. This was certainly not done. And regardless, he is not permitted to destroy my property. All the same laws apply here as for anything else. It doesn’t matter that it is cannabis, just like they can say dogs are not allowed at the park doesn’t give them the right to destroy dogs when they’re found.
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Post by gar on Jul 1, 2020 15:53:15 GMT
Before doing anything, I suggest you examine whether you are more upset about the fact that he did this or about how you handled it at the time. I'd guess that both might be possible. Personally, even if I didn't think I'd handled a confrontation like that well I would still be angry and upset that $2000+ of my property had been trashed.
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ashley
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Posts: 3,400
Jun 17, 2016 12:36:53 GMT
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Post by ashley on Jul 1, 2020 15:57:47 GMT
Before doing anything, I suggest you examine whether you are more upset about the fact that he did this or about how you handled it at the time. I'd guess that both might be possible. Personally, even if I didn't think I'd handled a confrontation like that well I would still be angry and upset that $2000+ of my property had been trashed. I have no issue with my behaviour — I was polite, asked some questions. I didn’t yell or insult him or do anything I would go back and correct. I have done nothing wrong here. He was the one who acted inappropriately. So although I was intimidated I am not ashamed of how I handled the confrontation.
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Post by Spongemom Scrappants on Jul 1, 2020 16:01:43 GMT
While it would have been advisable to file a police report immediately, I can understand why you did not. And for that same reason - concern for the fact that it is your mother's property; not yours - you really need to talk this all through with her at this point before you proceed further.
You're between a rock and hard place on this one. You've lost the value of your plants, but your mother could stand to lose a lot as well.
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ashley
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Jun 17, 2016 12:36:53 GMT
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Post by ashley on Jul 1, 2020 16:04:09 GMT
While it would have been advisable to file a police report immediately, I can understand why you did not. And for that same reason - concern for the fact that it is your mother's property; not yours - you really need to talk this all through with her at this point before you proceed further. You're between a rock and hard place on this one. You've lost the value of your plants, but your mother could stand to lose a lot as well. Totally!
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twinsmomfla99
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Jun 26, 2014 13:42:47 GMT
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Post by twinsmomfla99 on Jul 1, 2020 16:12:20 GMT
You still have not said if YOU signed a lease. If not , what makes you believe YOU have tenant rights? It sounds as if this if your mother’s trailer and lease. That may mean you don’t have a legal right to see the lease etc. Know that rules can be made after the signing a lease is done that are also binding upon notice. Shouldn't make a difference. He has no right to enter the property without notice to the tenant. Whether he did so to confiscate/destroy property that belonged to the tenant or to a guest of the tenant is irrelevant.
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PrettyInPeank
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Post by PrettyInPeank on Jul 1, 2020 16:33:47 GMT
Is he the property manager or property owner?
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ddly
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Jul 10, 2014 19:36:28 GMT
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Post by ddly on Jul 1, 2020 16:44:48 GMT
I’m going to talk to my mom. Obtain the rules / lease that she has. I’m considering filing a police report. And likely will at a minimum write a careful letter to the owner referencing the LT Act and how the manager acted unlawfully and outside of his rights, and request to be compensated for my plants. Depending on what my mom allows or decides to do I will report him to the Landlord Tenant Board. I have a year to file a complaint so I can take some time and think about this. I think this makes sense. I think it stinks all around. You are in Canada, right? That may be the difference for a free consult. I would suggest speaking with the police and seeing what they recomend.
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anaterra
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Jun 29, 2014 3:04:02 GMT
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Post by anaterra on Jul 1, 2020 17:16:05 GMT
(((( big hugs)))) i think it completely sucks!!! I dont blame you for getting angry!!! Its a huge violation....
I hope your mom lets you get the resolution you want and need!!!
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twinsmomfla99
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Jun 26, 2014 13:42:47 GMT
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Post by twinsmomfla99 on Jul 1, 2020 17:17:49 GMT
I would email the manager with a copy to owner of what was taken, the value, and the fact that he did not allow you to retrieve from dumpster. I would word it so it is not threatening, just stating the facts. maybe even add, ' I don't think you are aware that each of those plants you threw away had a value of $1000- $2000'. I would leave off anything stating your rights to own them, etc. Basically just something in writing, in case you should choose at a later date to pursue legal action. Just my opinion, something I would do. Sorry about your plants. Id be so upset. I think this is what I’d like to do to start with. This is not legal advice, but rather my own personal approach if confronted with this situation. If I were in your shoes, and confident that I had done everything properly, I would send the owner a written statement complaining about the manager's behavior and include: 1. Date and time you arrived with the plants. 2. Picture of the trailer with the location marked where you left the plants. 3. Date and time you noticed them missing. 4. Names of the neighbors who may have witnessed it and the date/time you spoke to them. 5. Date/time you found the plants in the dumpster. 6. Dates/times of all conversations with the manager. Include as much detail as you can about each conversation. 7. Include a description of the altercation at the dumpster and names of witnesses if there were any. Why would I include all that detail? It documents your recollection close to the time of these events. The longer you wait, the more they can challenge your memory. It also allows them to respond if they disagree with your version of events, and more than likely, their version will include at least some acknowledgement that the plants were taken. When you provide a statement that detailed, the urge to simply deny that it happened isn't as great. Instead, they try to "justify" what happened (i.e. you weren't an authorized guest, or the plants were illegal, or the manager gave notice). In which case, they have acknowledged taking the plants and now need to prove justification for it. Keep the focus on the manager's behavior in the initial report, and not on the value of the stolen plants or your "interpretation" of the law. If the manager does acknowledge taking the plants, then you can follow up with a complaint requesting reimbursement. That complaint letter should include: 1. Any information that shows you were there legally under the lease. 2. A quote from the law/lease that requires notification. 3. A statement from your mom that no notice was given. 4. Receipts showing the purchase price of the plants (if you have it) as well as any supporting documentation for higher value based on the age/size of the plants if the value has increased since purchase. 5. Documentation proving you have permission to own the plants and carry them with you to other locations (in case they want to claim it was illegal for you to possess them in the trailer park). 6. For good measure, throw in the definition of assault and how it applies to the dumpster incident. If you have any conversations with either the manager or the owner, record (and if your state does not allow recording others without their permission, make sure that you state "this is being recorded" at the beginning of the recording).
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twinsmomfla99
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Post by twinsmomfla99 on Jul 1, 2020 17:22:40 GMT
Check the lease to see what it says about subletters or visitors to the property. It may say subletting isn’t allowed (and even if it is allowed you may have to prove you are subletting which I’m assuming you aren’t paying your mom anything and couldn’t prove it). It may also say visitors only allowed when the person paying the lease is also onsite. You may be opening your mom up to being let go as a tenant anyway. He may claim he was protecting your mom’s property as the tenant was not on the premises and someone else was placing things on her property. I think you should file a report that your property was stolen, but just know you may be opening your mom up to a bunch of legal issues depending on how the lease is written. I think this could end up being the case. We have a home on a lake that we lease and in our contract, it says that we are the tenants and if we let others stay without us being there, we will notify the leasing company in writing the names, ages and phone # of who is staying there without us, every single time. It has to be in writing, with dates. Our contract also says its up to us to know if they have changed rules and suggests every year we obtain a new copy of rules before staying. That makes sense if you are leasing a cabin or rental unit, but this is just a lease for a plot of ground. Unless this is a community with restricted access and amenities, it isn't likely that you have to notify the manager that you are going to have guests. I do know of a local campground with restricted access that requires guests to have permission to enter without the property owner (and in that case the owner owns both the building and the land), but that is because it is a restricted, gated community that does not want non-guests using the amenities--lake, park, playgrounds, etc. (pool requires a pass even for the owners). This doesn't sound like that kind of community. This is just a leased lot.
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Post by cindyupnorth on Jul 1, 2020 17:41:53 GMT
I didnot sign a lease but I don’t think that matters — if anything it just means I’m subletting from my mom and I still have rights. If they changed the rules or added any they were required to notify us in writing and there has been no notification. Check the lease to see what it says about subletters or visitors to the property. It may say subletting isn’t allowed (and even if it is allowed you may have to prove you are subletting which I’m assuming you aren’t paying your mom anything and couldn’t prove it). It may also say visitors only allowed when the person paying the lease is also onsite. You may be opening your mom up to being let go as a tenant anyway. He may claim he was protecting your mom’s property as the tenant was not on the premises and someone else was placing things on her property. I think you should file a report that your property was stolen, but just know you may be opening your mom up to a bunch of legal issues depending on how the lease is written. I think this could end up being the case. We have a home on a lake that we lease and in our contract, it says that we are the tenants and if we let others stay without us being there, we will notify the leasing company in writing the names, ages and phone # of who is staying there without us, every single time. It has to be in writing, with dates. Our contract also says its up to us to know if they have changed rules and suggests every year we obtain a new copy of rules before staying. Since you do not own the land the trailer is on, I assume that they do upkeep? mowing, etc, and are allowed unlimited access to the area? were the plants sitting outside? on the trailer itself? or in the yard? I would be really leary about opening a whole can of worms with this guy. Plus you don't know if the manager and owner are in tight. I seem to remember you currently aren't working, right? so you aren't affiliated with any cannabis growers and such, could that play in to it? that you shouldn't have been bringing a plant to another location? I know in the USA there are sometimes big time regulations on moving plants.
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Post by bc2ca on Jul 1, 2020 17:52:05 GMT
It took me a couple of hours walking around and talking to people but someone eventually told me to go see the manager as they’d seen him on my property. I spoke to the owner first, explained the situation and he said nothing about the rules, just that if they were stolen it was my fault. This isn't just a "he said she said" situation. There are plenty of people that can confirm you were looking for the plants and at least one directed you to the property manager. Write a detailed incident report, send it to the property owner and call the police. Are you near a university or college? They might have a housing office with a LT expert that could give you guidance. We had a dispute with a tenant created by the live-in building manager years ago. She changed the locks and refused to give us a key (on advise of the manager). After weeks of waiting for her to get through to the Rental Ombudsman main office to confirm we were entitled to the key, I suggested she contact the university housing office. In less than 24 hours we received a certified letter with the key.
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Post by allison1954 on Jul 1, 2020 18:09:23 GMT
You still have not said if YOU signed a lease. If not , what makes you believe YOU have tenant rights? It sounds as if this if your mother’s trailer and lease. That may mean you don’t have a legal right to see the lease etc. Know that rules can be made after the signing a lease is done that are also binding upon notice. Shouldn't make a difference. He has no right to enter the property without notice to the tenant. Whether he did so to confiscate/destroy property that belonged to the tenant or to a guest of the tenant is irrelevant. my point is that the person who signed the lease has the rights she probably has no rights to demand to see any documents etc not someone she allows to stay there which is what I said
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twinsmomfla99
Pearl Clutcher
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Post by twinsmomfla99 on Jul 1, 2020 18:29:48 GMT
Shouldn't make a difference. He has no right to enter the property without notice to the tenant. Whether he did so to confiscate/destroy property that belonged to the tenant or to a guest of the tenant is irrelevant. my point is that the person who signed the lease has the rights she probably has no rights to demand to see any documents etc not someone she allows to stay there which is what I said I am pretty sure she doesn't have to demand to see the lease. As far as I can tell from her posts, she gets along with her mom, who will be more than happy to let her see it. As for claiming he was protecting her mother's property, how would he know that her mom was not there? She could have ridden with her daughter. Her daughter could have been a delivery person delivering something her mother bought. Based on her conversations with the manager, that was not what he was claiming. He was getting rid of the cannabis because he doesn't like it. And it still holds that he had NO right to destroy the property. If he was concerned that someone was putting plants on the property without permission, the proper course of conduct was to notify her mother and tell her, not take it upon himself to get rid of them.
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Post by catmom on Jul 1, 2020 18:39:36 GMT
I'm so sorry that happened - what a dick!
So I have no legal expertise whatsoever, but I have been both a tenant and a landlord in Ontario and did take my landlord to the rental tribunal (I'm pretty sure that's not what its called but you know what I mean). The laws in Ontario favour tenants quite heavily. Usually the only reasons you can evict a tenant is for non-payment (after 60 days notice etc), for renovation or I suppose if closing down the site altogether. I think contracts can also be ended if the land/building is sold.
I know vacation rental properties are usually pretty loose with who uses the property as long as there aren't pools etc that could be abused, and its not being listed on Air BnB etc. I don't *think* you can be evicted just for having/being a sublet (assuming this is even considered a sublet situation), but they could potentially require your mother no longer sublet to you. Don't quote me on that, I don't remember the rules around sublets any more.
The usual process is to contact the property manager and owner and give them an opportunity to work with you. Definitely get everything down on paper with details, and find anyone who saw what happened. If you can't get satisfaction with the owner than you can take it to the rental tribunal BUT I don't know if they have authority to give you $ back like in small claims court, or if you can just get your rent reduced. At the tribunal they will have a mediator who will try to work with the two of you to come up with a solution prior to your names being called. If mediation isn't successful you will be called into a court to bring your case, I guess similar to small claims court. When I went I realized that 99% of the cases were tenants fighting eviction, not many tenants taking their landlords to court.
I don't know how it works re police but I would be very tempted to report this. Ideally, you would use this as a bargaining chip with the owner i.e. "I have chosen not to go to the police to report this as I hope we can resolve this amicably" but I can't say that's even the best approach.
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Deleted
Posts: 0
Apr 25, 2024 11:25:04 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Jul 1, 2020 19:53:51 GMT
I realize that theft is a crime but I am curious why in the world someone would leave something/anything that is worth up to $8000 sitting outside in a yard in a trailer park for anyone to potentially take, especially something as small, portable, and recognizable as plants.
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Post by kernriver on Jul 1, 2020 22:31:00 GMT
You had $8,000 worth of mj. He stole and destroyed it. Could you sue for loss of income? Were you advertising when you placed the plants outside? I’m a little off-put by this entire episode. But that’s me...a mother of a kid that went completely kookoo on mj and blew up our family and his life. Soo, what exactly was going on...
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Post by Blind Squirrel on Jul 1, 2020 22:31:58 GMT
I'm sorry. I hope you can be compensated.
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Post by anniefb on Jul 1, 2020 22:42:06 GMT
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Post by sasha on Jul 1, 2020 22:45:44 GMT
Hopefully your mother can find her copy of the lease as well as a current rules/regulations for the property. Tenant laws are extremely dependent on location, so I'm not going to offer an opinion as I'm unfamiliar with Canadian laws. One thing to look for is whether there is an exception to notice for health and safety violations. I'm not sure whether they'd be able to prove it, but that could be their reasoning around giving property notice. If cannabis is excluded in the lease (and it is in many leases - especially AFTER it was made legal) or in the rules and regulations referred to in the lease and they claim a safety violation - it may be a more difficult process to prove that he owes you for the value of the plants. I would absolutely expect the lease to not be renewed, so depending on when it expires may drive how quickly your mom has to sell the trailer. Nothing in the laws that allow a landlord to enter property without notice for cannabis. I’ve read extensively on landlord advice websites and they all day 24 hrs notice is required when inspecting for cannabis plants. There is no health and safety provisions for cannabis plants. Also if they changed the rules or updated them they were required to notify us in writing, or by posting the rules on the trailer door. This was certainly not done. And regardless, he is not permitted to destroy my property. All the same laws apply here as for anything else. It doesn’t matter that it is cannabis, just like they can say dogs are not allowed at the park doesn’t give them the right to destroy dogs when they’re found. This is what I'm struck with: He can't enter the property w/o warning. Those could be your mom's plants. You could just be her guest. He's in the wrong just for entering the property w/o notice.
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Post by scraphollie27 on Jul 1, 2020 23:23:45 GMT
These links are for assistance in British Columbia. Ashley’s in Ontario.
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Post by anniefb on Jul 1, 2020 23:56:00 GMT
These links are for assistance in British Columbia. Ashley’s in Ontario. Thanks scraphollie27 for some reason I thought she was in BC.
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Post by elaine on Jul 2, 2020 0:43:55 GMT
I think getting a lawyer is probably the way to go if you want to pursue this. If the system is like it is in the USA, you will need to pay all your lawyer’s fees and then hope that 1) there is a judgement in your favor and 2) that the manager actually pays it. It will cost you a hefty sum up front and then you may have to wait a long time to get a settlement, if ever, to recoup your lawyer fees.
In the USA, this is just one way that the legal system favors the rich. The wealthy can afford to pay large legal fees and wait the years it may take to recoup their money. The poor can’t afford to invest $1K+ in legal fees and have it tied up for years and often don’t pursue legal action because of it. In the USA, because of the value of the plants, you couldn’t pursue it in small claims court, so you would need to go to regular court with a lawyer. Again, I’m not sure if it is the same in Canada.
So, given your current employment situation, you need to consider if you can tie up the money you’ll need to spend in legal fees and may never see again.
The other thing that I would check with a lawyer is whether you can file the suit, or whether your mom needs to do it as the official leaseholder. Unless there is a formal sublet agreement, I don’t know if they will let you legally pursue the matter. I know nothing about the Canadian legal system, nor about rental/tenant law there, so I could be completely off-base. I know that you have said that you are subletting from her, but did you ever actually draw up something documenting it? If not, I’m not sure whether an informal agreement would give you the ability to sue the management regarding the lease agreement, tenants’ rights, etc. - it may end up that your mother would need to be the one to file suit. But, again, maybe an informal agreement would be fine.
eta: if I were in your shoes, I would be furious and not want to let it go. I probably would eventually because of the financial, time and energy outlay necessary to pursue it. But I would fume about it and be angry for years, even if I moved on and didn’t press charges. You have my best wishes in all of this mess. The guy was an ass.
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Post by allison1954 on Jul 2, 2020 0:50:25 GMT
Elaine,
I just looked small claims limitations because I thought it to be higher than that.
FL Is 8k and IL is10k, so very much a state by state thing.
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ashley
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Jun 17, 2016 12:36:53 GMT
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Post by ashley on Jul 2, 2020 1:01:38 GMT
It’s been a busy day here, but I’ve been reading and thinking. I spoke to my mom and she asked I speak with the owner first. So I will start there.
Trying to include some brief replies here to what’s been mentioned.
The guy who destroyed my plants is the manager; I first spoke to the park owner when I found them missing. I thought they were stolen and wanted to let him know and asked what I could do. He didn’t even tell me that they weren’t allowed. He said I could ask people if they knew anything. And said I could not post a note on the community board asking for info or their return (“oh no! Not for THAT”, he said).
My job/former position has nothing to do with this and is irrelevant.
The trailer park site is totally rural and even if it was within a certain distance from a school it gives no one any right to take my plants and destroy them, with no notice or indication.
I live in Ontario so the BC rules don’t apply to me. I had already found the Ontario version of the rules and there’s no cannabis regulations included.
My plants are purely for personal use. I am not a licensed cannabis producer. I am permitted to grow four plants. They are not for sale in any way, nor did I advertise anything.
I put my plants off to the side of our yard nestled in some grapevines and peppermint growing there. Not as if I was flaunting them, but still in the open. I’ve been growing these plants in my driveway, which is located in a downtown-ish residential area on a main road, and I have no fence although they were located quite far up from the sidewalk; for two months they were not stolen. I had expected if I was breaking a park rule, someone would have come to speak to me and ask me to remove them. I’d actually be way less upset if someone had just straight up stolen them for personal enjoyment.
The fact it was cannabis is actually totally irrelevant to the rightness or wrongness of the manager’s
I don’t want to take anyone to court. I don’t expect compensation. I will consider filing a police report and / or complaint with the Landlord Tenant Board; at most they might provide rent abatement.
What I would like to have happen is: Receive an apology for his assaultive behaviour. Have it understood his actions are unlawful and cannot continue and establish the correct actions should cannabis plants be found in the park again (obviously someone else’s plants!)
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ashley
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Post by ashley on Jul 2, 2020 1:07:10 GMT
If you think of the situation like this, it seems utterly mad:
The park has the right to set their own rules. The park decides that charcoal babrbecues are not allowed. I stupidly am ignorant of this rule, so I drop off my charcoal barbecue in my yard. I leave for two hours. I come back and discover it gone, with no note or phone call. The manager absolutely hates charcoal barbecues so when he saw it, he took it, smashed it to pieces and put it in a park garbage dumpster. When I tried to retrieve the smashed barbecue, hoping I could perhaps weld it back together, the manager threw bags of garbage on me.
And that is truly the equivalent comparison. That my property was four legal cannabis plants is irrelevant. I am angered he believes his personal views usurp the law.
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