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Post by christine58 on Jul 11, 2020 18:02:52 GMT
But I’m in an area where there’s absolutely no control. Hospitals are turning people away completely and we’ve brought in refrigerated trucks to store dead bodies in because the morgues are full. This was NYC in April. Too bad other states didn't stay on at home orders like we did, |
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moodyblue
Drama Llama
Posts: 6,166 
Location: Western Illinois
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Jun 26, 2014 21:07:23 GMT
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Post by moodyblue on Jul 11, 2020 18:25:08 GMT
Best wishes for a speedy recovery, Merge! Thanks all. It’s not until Wednesday. I had to go for pre-op 5 days ahead so they could have the results of my COVID test back. I am under orders to self isolate until I go back to the hospital. I’m having my knee replacement on Wednesday also, so I’ll wish you the best as we share a surgery date. I did the pre-op and registration a couple weeks ago and go for my Covid test on Monday, then quarantine. |
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moodyblue
Drama Llama
Posts: 6,166
Location: Western Illinois
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Jun 26, 2014 21:07:23 GMT
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Post by moodyblue on Jul 11, 2020 18:28:51 GMT
I also didn’t understand this attitude but I think it’s because I don’t know much about what is going on in Texas. I actually asked Dh about it last night as he’s a physician on gov’t committee about return to school. He maintains kids are less likely to get it from other kids at school and are less likely to pass it on to other kids at school. Tracing technology can tell that kids getting it at school are getting it from adults who contract it outside of school and bring it into school. Kids are more likely to have a less serious case whereas the teachers in the school could develop a more serious case than the kids. The teachers are more likely to get it from other teachers. If some American districts have a poor student to teacher ratio and limited support for special needs students perhaps the virus could spread easier but he doesn’t have experience with that info ecause we have a good student to teacher ratio. He also thinks that people can be scared of something new and this is something new but that many countries sent their kids back in June which is why the teachers in those countries might not be as worried since they’ve done it already. Of course there are many factors that went in to play over why or why not a school went back in June. And at the same time we know very little about all of these circumstances so fear of the unknown is common. As our new normal it all sucks. Sorry for all of the teachers who are upset and worried to go back, especially if your districts have poor working conditions and you’re in areas where your gov’t is pushing you back to work but won’t help control the spread of the virus in your state. Texas is where NYC was back in March/April. We have a shortage of PPE, doctors and nurses are being asked to come out of retirement, healthcare licensing requirements are being altered and waived. Hospitals are full and completely turning away patients. Convention centers are being converted back into makeshift hospitals for the overflow. Refrigerated trucks are being ordered by cities because morgues are full. In the midst of those conditions, the state education agency (who is working from home until January because the office is unsafe) has ordered all schools to open with super helpful guidance like “open a window if you can” (I can count on one hand the number of classrooms I’ve seen with windows that open), kids under 10 don’t any have to wear a mask, and just wash your hands more (the student bathrooms never have soap or paper towels...the teachers buy their own soap for the faculty bathroom). Both of the buildings I worked in do NOT have windows that open, and I know a lot of schools are exactly as mentioned here. The small room I used at the middle school did not even have a window, and you’d only be able to put one student at a time in there with a teacher while socially distanced. No way could you have 2-6 like I usually did, all sitting around one table. |
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Post by Darcy Collins on Jul 11, 2020 18:30:10 GMT
I'm trying to wrap my head around why the US is so different than other countries. The UK's death from COVID per capita is over 60% higher than the US's and they sent their kids back to school. The US per capita rates are about 9th in the world and all the countries above them have either already restarted school or are planning on restarting in the fall - apparently without the controversy here. Are there hot spots here that need to get rates under control before reopening - probably - but this pervasive attitude that if you reopen schools before a vaccine is found is a very American construct. I'd like to see more policies that are actually looking at the science and the studies around the world about what works. www.sciencemag.org/news/2020/07/school-openings-across-globe-suggest-ways-keep-coronavirus-bay-despite-outbreaksI don’t think we should stay shut down until there’s a vaccine. But I’m in an area where there’s absolutely no control. Hospitals are turning people away completely and we’ve brought in refrigerated trucks to store dead bodies in because the morgues are full. In the midst of this, our state education agency is working from home until January because it’s unsafe to return to the office. But they want to send teachers and kids to school in August. That’s madness. *That* is what I object to. The most vocal teachers on this thread (Merge, etc.) are in the same state as me. I don’t think most Americans have an attitude of not wanting to reopen schools until a vaccine is found at all. I hope my initial post was clear that I absolutely understand specific hot spots needing to get local virus control in place. I do disagree though that it's only places like Texas that are concerned about reopening school. There was a survey a month or so ago and something like 2/3 of teachers in the US did not want to go back into the classroom. And certainly a large portion of the teacher peas from all over the country have overwhelming expressed a desire to not reopen schools. I'm sure the lack of confidence in the administration is a huge component. |
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Post by mikewozowski on Jul 11, 2020 18:45:38 GMT
I'm trying to wrap my head around why the US is so different than other countries. The UK's death from COVID per capita is over 60% higher than the US's and they sent their kids back to school. The US per capita rates are about 9th in the world and all the countries above them have either already restarted school or are planning on restarting in the fall - apparently without the controversy here. Are there hot spots here that need to get rates under control before reopening - probably - but this pervasive attitude that if you reopen schools before a vaccine is found is a very American construct. I'd like to see more policies that are actually looking at the science and the studies around the world about what works. www.sciencemag.org/news/2020/07/school-openings-across-globe-suggest-ways-keep-coronavirus-bay-despite-outbreaksI don’t think we should stay shut down until there’s a vaccine. But I’m in an area where there’s absolutely no control. Hospitals are turning people away completely and we’ve brought in refrigerated trucks to store dead bodies in because the morgues are full. In the midst of this, our state education agency is working from home until January because it’s unsafe to return to the office. But they want to send teachers and kids to school in August. That’s madness. *That* is what I object to. The most vocal teachers on this thread (Merge, etc.) are in the same state as me. I don’t think most Americans have an attitude of not wanting to reopen schools until a vaccine is found at all. weren't you saying not too long ago that your county only had 17 cases? now you are telling us about refrigerated trucks for dead bodies? i am a little confused. |
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Post by myshelly on Jul 11, 2020 18:48:13 GMT
I don’t think we should stay shut down until there’s a vaccine. But I’m in an area where there’s absolutely no control. Hospitals are turning people away completely and we’ve brought in refrigerated trucks to store dead bodies in because the morgues are full. In the midst of this, our state education agency is working from home until January because it’s unsafe to return to the office. But they want to send teachers and kids to school in August. That’s madness. *That* is what I object to. The most vocal teachers on this thread (Merge, etc.) are in the same state as me. I don’t think most Americans have an attitude of not wanting to reopen schools until a vaccine is found at all. I hope my initial post was clear that I absolutely understand specific hot spots needing to get local virus control in place. I do disagree though that it's only places like Texas that are concerned about reopening school. There was a survey a month or so ago and something like 2/3 of teachers in the US did not want to go back into the classroom. And certainly a large portion of the teacher peas from all over the country have overwhelming expressed a desire to not reopen schools. I'm sure the lack of confidence in the administration is a huge component. What I see is a pervasive push to open schools *first* and I think that’s what teachers object to. Why should we experiment with our kids when offices haven’t gone back to work? All of the people I know with white collar jobs are still working from home, but teachers should go back to the classroom. It’s not safe for adults to go to bars or conventions or offices, but let’s put 3,000 teens together in a building and see what happens 🤷🏻♀️ What I object to is the willingness to experiment with kids and teachers before other sectors have been made to go back to work. |
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Post by chlerbie on Jul 11, 2020 18:52:55 GMT
I hope my initial post was clear that I absolutely understand specific hot spots needing to get local virus control in place. I do disagree though that it's only places like Texas that are concerned about reopening school. There was a survey a month or so ago and something like 2/3 of teachers in the US did not want to go back into the classroom. And certainly a large portion of the teacher peas from all over the country have overwhelming expressed a desire to not reopen schools. I'm sure the lack of confidence in the administration is a huge component. What I see is a pervasive push to open schools *first* and I think that’s what teachers object to. Why should we experiment with our kids when offices haven’t gone back to work? All of the people I know with white collar jobs are still working from home, but teachers should go back to the classroom. It’s not safe for adults to go to bars or conventions or offices, but let’s put 3,000 teens together in a building and see what happens 🤷🏻♀️ What I object to is the willingness to experiment with kids and teachers before other sectors have been made to go back to work. I'm just curious if you've now changed your stance on "getting out there and living" now that you see just what that attitude brought to your area and now that your family may be personally touched by it? |
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Post by myshelly on Jul 11, 2020 18:53:15 GMT
I don’t think we should stay shut down until there’s a vaccine. But I’m in an area where there’s absolutely no control. Hospitals are turning people away completely and we’ve brought in refrigerated trucks to store dead bodies in because the morgues are full. In the midst of this, our state education agency is working from home until January because it’s unsafe to return to the office. But they want to send teachers and kids to school in August. That’s madness. *That* is what I object to. The most vocal teachers on this thread (Merge, etc.) are in the same state as me. I don’t think most Americans have an attitude of not wanting to reopen schools until a vaccine is found at all. weren't you saying not too long ago that your county only had 17 cases? now you are telling us about refrigerated trucks for dead bodies? i am a little confused. My *city* had 17 cases when I made that post (and we’re still pretty low, but the county and city where DH is a teacher has exploded). Now *counties* in Texas are ordering refrigerated trucks for morgues. I fully supported reopening in April and May. The situation has changed now. I don’t like the way it’s been handled at any point on the timeline. I believe we should have gone to masks first with bipartisan support, shut down for 2 weeks to prepare hospitals, then reopened (still with 100% masks everywhere) at limited capacities, then had rolling lockdowns in specific places as the situation warranted. Since what we did was pretty much the opposite of that, my feelings have been pretty much the opposite of supporting whatever TPTB were doing at any given point in time. Now we’re fucked almost beyond repair. Adding schools to the mix isn’t going to help with the repair. |
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Post by mollycoddle on Jul 11, 2020 18:55:19 GMT
I don’t think we should stay shut down until there’s a vaccine. But I’m in an area where there’s absolutely no control. Hospitals are turning people away completely and we’ve brought in refrigerated trucks to store dead bodies in because the morgues are full. In the midst of this, our state education agency is working from home until January because it’s unsafe to return to the office. But they want to send teachers and kids to school in August. That’s madness. *That* is what I object to. The most vocal teachers on this thread (Merge, etc.) are in the same state as me. I don’t think most Americans have an attitude of not wanting to reopen schools until a vaccine is found at all. I hope my initial post was clear that I absolutely understand specific hot spots needing to get local virus control in place. I do disagree though that it's only places like Texas that are concerned about reopening school. There was a survey a month or so ago and something like 2/3 of teachers in the US did not want to go back into the classroom. And certainly a large portion of the teacher peas from all over the country have overwhelming expressed a desire to not reopen schools. I'm sure the lack of confidence in the administration is a huge component. Not just lack of confidence in the administration. Lack of confidence that it’s possible to do safely. Busing will be a nightmare, for one thing. My old (speech therapy) room was windowless with poor ventilation. How to deal with kids in the hall, eating when large groups of kids are crowded into a room. Preschoolers. Special ed.students. Kindergarten students. All of them cough and sneeze on you. Getting them to cough into their elbow is hard enough. People talking all day in poorly ventilated rooms. Opening windows will help, but not enough to inspire confidence. |
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Post by Darcy Collins on Jul 11, 2020 19:01:17 GMT
I hope my initial post was clear that I absolutely understand specific hot spots needing to get local virus control in place. I do disagree though that it's only places like Texas that are concerned about reopening school. There was a survey a month or so ago and something like 2/3 of teachers in the US did not want to go back into the classroom. And certainly a large portion of the teacher peas from all over the country have overwhelming expressed a desire to not reopen schools. I'm sure the lack of confidence in the administration is a huge component. Not just lack of confidence in the administration. Lack of confidence that it’s possible to do safely. Busing will be a nightmare, for one thing. My old (speech therapy) room was windowless with poor ventilation. How to deal with kids in the hall, eating when large groups of kids are crowded into a room. Preschoolers. Special ed.students. Kindergarten students. All of them cough and sneeze on you. Getting them to cough into their elbow is hard enough. People talking all day in poorly ventilated rooms. Opening windows will help, but not enough to inspire confidence. But see that's my comment. None of that is different in the 20 other countries that have already opened schools. I don't think US children are more likely to cough and sneeze than kids in the Belgium or France. |
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Post by aj2hall on Jul 11, 2020 19:02:19 GMT
What I see is a pervasive push to open schools *first* and I think that’s what teachers object to. Why should we experiment with our kids when offices haven’t gone back to work? All of the people I know with white collar jobs are still working from home, but teachers should go back to the classroom. It’s not safe for adults to go to bars or conventions or offices, but let’s put 3,000 teens together in a building and see what happens 🤷🏻♀️ What I object to is the willingness to experiment with kids and teachers before other sectors have been made to go back to work. Wait it a minute. If I remember correctly, you were pushing for life to return to normal. You wanted to go to museums, moves, restaurants etc. and didn’t your family go to Universal in June? So it’s OK for minimum wage workers to go to work and risk being exposed for your entertainment. But it’s not OK for your husband who is a teacher to go back to work? Your change in opinion is interesting, now that your family is directly affected. I'm not suggesting that the plan to return to schools in Texas is responsible or in the best interests of kids or teachers. Just a comment in response to yours. |
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Post by aj2hall on Jul 11, 2020 19:08:06 GMT
My *city* had 17 cases when I made that post (and we’re still pretty low, but the county and city where DH is a teacher has exploded). Now *counties* in Texas are ordering refrigerated trucks for morgues. I fully supported reopening in April and May. The situation has changed now. I don’t like the way it’s been handled at any point on the timeline. I believe we should have gone to masks first with bipartisan support, shut down for 2 weeks to prepare hospitals, then reopened (still with 100% masks everywhere) at limited capacities, then had rolling lockdowns in specific places as the situation warranted. Since what we did was pretty much the opposite of that, my feelings have been pretty much the opposite of supporting whatever TPTB were doing at any given point in time. Now we’re fucked almost beyond repair. Adding schools to the mix isn’t going to help with the repair. And what do you think would have happened if Texas opened in April or May? Texas would have reached the state you’re in now, only significantly faster. Texas wasn’t meeting any of the recommendations for opening in April or May, either, or in a better position to reopen. Staying home longer did not worsen the situation. |
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Post by freecharlie on Jul 11, 2020 19:17:03 GMT
Not just lack of confidence in the administration. Lack of confidence that it’s possible to do safely. Busing will be a nightmare, for one thing. My old (speech therapy) room was windowless with poor ventilation. How to deal with kids in the hall, eating when large groups of kids are crowded into a room. Preschoolers. Special ed.students. Kindergarten students. All of them cough and sneeze on you. Getting them to cough into their elbow is hard enough. People talking all day in poorly ventilated rooms. Opening windows will help, but not enough to inspire confidence. But see that's my comment. None of that is different in the 20 other countries that have already opened schools. I don't think US children are more likely to cough and sneeze than kids in the Belgium or France. schools in other countries have had to close after opening The number of cases in those countries started lower My guess is that they have better supplies/sanitation. my district no longer employs custodians and farms out "cleaning" to some company. Cleaning consisted of them vacuuming daily and wiping down my tables 2 times per week. Also, how many of those schools have masks mandatea? |
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Post by Linda on Jul 11, 2020 19:19:34 GMT
Besides, I'm an introvert living in a 1-story "open plan" house and I'm really sick of everyone being around 24/7. me too... I’m at the hospital this morning doing pre-op for my hysterectomy. prayers |
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Post by Linda on Jul 11, 2020 19:20:55 GMT
I’m having my knee replacement on Wednesday also prayers for you as well |
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Post by iamkristinl16 on Jul 11, 2020 19:22:12 GMT
I’m curious if you work? And what type of job you do? You don't get it? Do you work with 30 kids in a small space that more than likely will not SD, wear the mask properly etc? Do you have kids sneeze and cough on you everyday at work? Give me a break. Kids are known to spread germs, and to be in a small classroom everyday is a HUGE risk. SMH I think you meant to quote bonanza not me. |
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TankTop
Pearl Clutcher
Refupea #1,871
Posts: 4,767
Location: On the couch...
Jun 28, 2014 1:52:46 GMT
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Post by TankTop on Jul 11, 2020 19:25:28 GMT
The thing to keep in mind is that this will not be a return to normal school....
Assigned seats all day in all contexts
Assigned order in line
No getting out of your seat
No group works o small group work
Special classes in your room in the same seat you have been all day
No singing in music
No PE
No playing with friends from other classes at recess
No sending kids to the restroom when the urge strikes
No adult within 3 feet of any student
This is not a return to normal. Many kids will not fare well with these restrictions. This is not the way US kiddos function in our schools.
Heck, I do not think I could function in that manner.
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Post by mollycoddle on Jul 11, 2020 19:31:01 GMT
Not just lack of confidence in the administration. Lack of confidence that it’s possible to do safely. Busing will be a nightmare, for one thing. My old (speech therapy) room was windowless with poor ventilation. How to deal with kids in the hall, eating when large groups of kids are crowded into a room. Preschoolers. Special ed.students. Kindergarten students. All of them cough and sneeze on you. Getting them to cough into their elbow is hard enough. People talking all day in poorly ventilated rooms. Opening windows will help, but not enough to inspire confidence. But see that's my comment. None of that is different in the 20 other countries that have already opened schools. I don't think US children are more likely to cough and sneeze than kids in the Belgium or France. I don’t either. What I DO doubt is that adequate plans will be followed through in many places. Not for lack of will; more for lack of funding. And as you said, lack of faith in this administration. I can tell you that many of my discipline around the country are buying PPE because they don’t want to gamble that adequate/sufficient PPE will be provided. Since this has been tossed back to states and local BOEs, I imagine that some schools will come up with good plans and others will not.  |
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Post by Darcy Collins on Jul 11, 2020 19:35:04 GMT
But see that's my comment. None of that is different in the 20 other countries that have already opened schools. I don't think US children are more likely to cough and sneeze than kids in the Belgium or France. schools in other countries have had to close after opening The number of cases in those countries started lower My guess is that they have better supplies/sanitation. my district no longer employs custodians and farms out "cleaning" to some company. Cleaning consisted of them vacuuming daily and wiping down my tables 2 times per week. Also, how many of those schools have masks mandatea? Some schools have had to close, but frankly not that many. And most of those countries did not have lower cases per capita than the US as a whole and certainly some areas of the US are significantly lower. Some have mask requirements, some didn't - I posted above an article that tried to gather as much data as possible on what seemed helpful and what wasn't. It's unfortunate that Sweden has not collected much/any data as they did not modify schools at all and it would have been helpful to have more data. The only thing I've seen is a 5% antibody in school children - which shows there were definitely outbreaks. I'll repost the long article that talked about schools in different areas. www.sciencemag.org/news/2020/07/school-openings-across-globe-suggest-ways-keep-coronavirus-bay-despite-outbreaksHere's an article talking about the lack of testing/data in Sweden: www.sciencemag.org/news/2020/05/how-sweden-wasted-rare-opportunity-study-coronavirus-schoolsI'm sure there are things than can be done better in general - and as I said, there has to be an acknowledgement of community rates and hot spots. I just don't believe that children in the US are fundamentally different than children in the rest of the world. |
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Post by freecharlie on Jul 11, 2020 19:38:08 GMT
The thing to keep in mind is that this will not be a return to normal school.... Assigned seats all day in all contexts Assigned order in line No getting out of your seat No group works o small group work Special classes in your room in the same seat you have been all day No singing in music No PE No playing with friends from other classes at recess No sending kids to the restroom when the urge strikes No adult within 3 feet of any student This is not a return to normal. Many kids will not fare well with these restrictions. This is not the way US kiddos function in our schools. Heck, I do not think I could function in that manner. I'm pretty sure that none of this is happening in my district or any of the ones close to me |
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katybee
Drama Llama
Posts: 5,377
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Post by katybee on Jul 11, 2020 19:42:46 GMT
I'm trying to wrap my head around why the US is so different than other countries. The UK's death from COVID per capita is over 60% higher than the US's and they sent their kids back to school. The US per capita rates are about 9th in the world and all the countries above them have either already restarted school or are planning on restarting in the fall - apparently without the controversy here. Are there hot spots here that need to get rates under control before reopening - probably - but this pervasive attitude that if you reopen schools before a vaccine is found is a very American construct. I'd like to see more policies that are actually looking at the science and the studies around the world about what works. www.sciencemag.org/news/2020/07/school-openings-across-globe-suggest-ways-keep-coronavirus-bay-despite-outbreaksI’ve never once said I wanted to wait until a vaccine was found to reopen schools. I do, however, want to wait until the virus is not spreading exponentially in my community. |
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SabrinaP
Pearl Clutcher
Busy Teacher Pea
Posts: 4,349
Location: Dallas Texas
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Post by SabrinaP on Jul 11, 2020 19:51:33 GMT
Not just lack of confidence in the administration. Lack of confidence that it’s possible to do safely. Busing will be a nightmare, for one thing. My old (speech therapy) room was windowless with poor ventilation. How to deal with kids in the hall, eating when large groups of kids are crowded into a room. Preschoolers. Special ed.students. Kindergarten students. All of them cough and sneeze on you. Getting them to cough into their elbow is hard enough. People talking all day in poorly ventilated rooms. Opening windows will help, but not enough to inspire confidence. But see that's my comment. None of that is different in the 20 other countries that have already opened schools. I don't think US children are more likely to cough and sneeze than kids in the Belgium or France. Can you tell us anything about the plans in other countries. The only other country I’ve read about was China’s reopening plan and much of what they did initially will not work in most US classrooms. I think teachers have a couple of problems with going back to school. First, at least in my area, there is a real denial of this virus. Many parents still think it’s no worse than a cold. In the US many parents do not have the protection and sick days other parts of the world do. Our kids come to school sick, high on fever reducing medications because their parents have to work and do not have sick days. I’ve already seen many parents saying they cannot quarantine their kids if the need be because they don’t have that much sick time. I totally get it because as a teacher we are only given 8 days per year. Also our classrooms are just over crowded. I’m not sure how class sizes are in other countries but in Texas the limit is 22 to 1 through 4th grade and then after that all bets are off. I had classes of 30 last year and my DH is a high school teacher and had always had classes of 35. If I need to spread kids out I can maybe fit about 15 kids in my room. They’ve already stated “spread kids out if you can”. That just shows teachers that they are still not taking it seriously. We are trying to fight this virus but not spend anymore on education. In fact most of our budgets are being cut. I do believe that 100% of teachers want to go back in the classroom because that is where all the things we love happens, but we want to ensure our safety and the safety of the kids and honestly most of our administrations have not proven to us that our safety is on the top of their priory list. |
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Post by iteach3rdgrade on Jul 11, 2020 19:51:37 GMT
But see that's my comment. None of that is different in the 20 other countries that have already opened schools. I don't think US children are more likely to cough and sneeze than kids in the Belgium or France. schools in other countries have had to close after opening The number of cases in those countries started lower My guess is that they have better supplies/sanitation. my district no longer employs custodians and farms out "cleaning" to some company. Cleaning consisted of them vacuuming daily and wiping down my tables 2 times per week. Also, how many of those schools have masks mandatea? Classroom sizes? Country mandates that protect citizens aside from school? How many cases will we have to have to close down? Israel schools had one case and closed.
Our county had one case in March in the high school. Fortunately, none of the kids got it and it was just before we shut down. Who knows what would have happened if we hadn't shut down. Now we have people vacationing in hot spots, sports, big parties, mixing families in small parties and what ever else is causing it to spread. None of that was happening in March yet.
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katybee
Drama Llama
Posts: 5,377
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Post by katybee on Jul 11, 2020 19:52:38 GMT
We are having big problems with daycare spread here in Texas. Two summer camps in the south have had to shut down because of widespread cases. Whatever strain we’re dealing with, it seems to pass between children and from kids to adults without difficulty. I asked Dh about the summer sleep away camps and daycares yesterday too. It’s interesting because my kids were desperate to go to their sleep away camp but all of ours were shut down even though we have limited cases. Dh said in the normal school environment with a good teacher / student ratio the virus doesn’t seem to spread. He can’t speak to other areas where the ratio is poor. He said tracing technology shows that kids who get it seem to get it in a living situation - in the house from adults living in the house. Sleep away camp recreates this house situation. He said he doesn’t know enough about daycares to speak about daycares. Our daycares have been open and it hasn’t spread. Yet. That isn’t to say our cases haven’t increased since we’ve ‘opened’. In our province of 5 M we used to have single digit cases per day. Now we’re up to 20 per day. But our hospitals still have plenty of space and according to our gov’t it’s ok if the virus spreads a bit as long as those getting it don’t need hospital. The goal is to have icu beds available to anyone who needs them. If our beds start filling up our gov’t will shut things down. Until then it feels quite ok. We are careful and socialize only outside, masks, etc. As an aside, there is proper pandemic protocol that our local gov’t followed. I don’t think the US followed proper protocol. Really the president and political leaders need to take a backseat to medical leaders, especially if the political leaders can’t agree. That just confuses everyone. Our political leaders had little say in what was happening while our medical leaders took centre stage. Our political leaders would basically say just do whatever the medical leader says. In that respect politics and political conflict are left out of any protocols. I guess I don’t understand where your husband is getting all of his data. Schools in the US have not been open since last spring. Is he basing it off daycares/summer programs with limited attendance? Is he basing it off other countries? Because schools that have opened in other countries have done it only when the transmission rate of the virus has decreased significantly, and even then, they have taken drastic social distancing measures. Measures the state of Texas is not requiring. i would like to know what he thinks a “good” teacher/student ratio is. Are his claims based on studies or anecdotal evidence? and I’m happy for you that you are having only 20 new cases/day. In Texas, we have about 10,000 new cases a day. |
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Post by iteach3rdgrade on Jul 11, 2020 19:53:55 GMT
The thing to keep in mind is that this will not be a return to normal school.... Assigned seats all day in all contexts Assigned order in line No getting out of your seat No group works o small group work Special classes in your room in the same seat you have been all day No singing in music No PE No playing with friends from other classes at recess No sending kids to the restroom when the urge strikes No adult within 3 feet of any student This is not a return to normal. Many kids will not fare well with these restrictions. This is not the way US kiddos function in our schools. Heck, I do not think I could function in that manner. I'm pretty sure that none of this is happening in my district or any of the ones close to me I don't see that happening. I think after a few weeks we will just be surviving by managing restless kids, bored kids and other behavior issues along with our own fears of catching something. |
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Post by Darcy Collins on Jul 11, 2020 20:00:05 GMT
But see that's my comment. None of that is different in the 20 other countries that have already opened schools. I don't think US children are more likely to cough and sneeze than kids in the Belgium or France. Can you tell us anything about the plans in other countries. The only other country I’ve read about was China’s reopening plan and much of what they did initially will not work in most US classrooms. I think teachers have a couple of problems with going back to school. First, at least in my area, there is a real denial of this virus. Many parents still think it’s no worse than a cold. In the US many parents do not have the protection and sick days other parts of the world do. Our kids come to school sick, high on fever reducing medications because their parents have to work and do not have sick days. I’ve already seen many parents saying they cannot quarantine their kids if the need be because they don’t have that much sick time. I totally get it because as a teacher we are only given 8 days per year. Also our classrooms are just over crowded. I’m not sure how class sizes are in other countries but in Texas the limit is 22 to 1 through 4th grade and then after that all bets are off. I had classes of 30 last year and my DH is a high school teacher and had always had classes of 35. If I need to spread kids out I can maybe fit about 15 kids in my room. They’ve already stated “spread kids out if you can”. That just shows teachers that they are still not taking it seriously. We are trying to fight this virus but not spend anymore on education. In fact most of our budgets are being cut. I do believe that 100% of teachers want to go back in the classroom because that is where all the things we love happens, but we want to ensure our safety and the safety of the kids and honestly most of our administrations have not proven to us that our safety is on the top of their priory list. I understand the concerns about parents sending sick kids to schools, I know many countries implemented temperature checking (and the school my cousin's kids went to over the summer as essential workers also required temperature checks). FYI - US is pretty average with class size compared to the rest of the world: economix.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/09/11/class-size-around-the-world/I've posted a few times an article taking a pretty comprehensive look at what other countries are doing with outcomes. |
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paigepea
Drama Llama
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Posts: 5,609
Location: BC, Canada
Jun 26, 2014 4:28:55 GMT
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Post by paigepea on Jul 11, 2020 20:09:00 GMT
I asked Dh about the summer sleep away camps and daycares yesterday too. It’s interesting because my kids were desperate to go to their sleep away camp but all of ours were shut down even though we have limited cases. Dh said in the normal school environment with a good teacher / student ratio the virus doesn’t seem to spread. He can’t speak to other areas where the ratio is poor. He said tracing technology shows that kids who get it seem to get it in a living situation - in the house from adults living in the house. Sleep away camp recreates this house situation. He said he doesn’t know enough about daycares to speak about daycares. Our daycares have been open and it hasn’t spread. Yet. That isn’t to say our cases haven’t increased since we’ve ‘opened’. In our province of 5 M we used to have single digit cases per day. Now we’re up to 20 per day. But our hospitals still have plenty of space and according to our gov’t it’s ok if the virus spreads a bit as long as those getting it don’t need hospital. The goal is to have icu beds available to anyone who needs them. If our beds start filling up our gov’t will shut things down. Until then it feels quite ok. We are careful and socialize only outside, masks, etc. As an aside, there is proper pandemic protocol that our local gov’t followed. I don’t think the US followed proper protocol. Really the president and political leaders need to take a backseat to medical leaders, especially if the political leaders can’t agree. That just confuses everyone. Our political leaders had little say in what was happening while our medical leaders took centre stage. Our political leaders would basically say just do whatever the medical leader says. In that respect politics and political conflict are left out of any protocols. I guess I don’t understand where your husband is getting all of his data. Schools in the US have not been open since last spring. Is he basing it off daycares/summer programs with limited attendance? Is he basing it off other countries? Because schools that have opened in other countries have done it only when the transmission rate of the virus has decreased significantly, and even then, they have taken drastic social distancing measures. Measures the state of Texas is not requiring. i would like to know what he thinks a “good” teacher/student ratio is. Are his claims based on studies or anecdotal evidence? and I’m happy for you that you are having only 20 new cases/day. In Texas, we have about 10,000 new cases a day. We are not in the US we are in Canada and schools opened in our province with no masks. They are collecting data from here and abroad and researching studies about return to school. Our provinces student teacher ratio is low. My kids both have 20 kids or less in their middle school / high school classrooms. This allows for social distancing in their sized classrooms. I don’t ask to see the studies his committee cites as i trust him but they are investigating all schools who have previously returned. If schools here have a case there will be decisions on shutting down. I also think that when schools have shut down after cases increased it isn’t always because schools had cases, it’s in most cases just a return to economy shutdown which includes schools. Overall schools have done well. I’m sorry if so many schools in the US won’t be following measures that protect kids and teachers, especially in hot spot areas. I understand the issues. I guess it’s just not happening everywhere yet. And by that I mean in other parts of the world. Hopefully there can be an agreement to make everyone happy. |
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Post by freecharlie on Jul 11, 2020 20:18:55 GMT
Can you tell us anything about the plans in other countries. The only other country I’ve read about was China’s reopening plan and much of what they did initially will not work in most US classrooms. I think teachers have a couple of problems with going back to school. First, at least in my area, there is a real denial of this virus. Many parents still think it’s no worse than a cold. In the US many parents do not have the protection and sick days other parts of the world do. Our kids come to school sick, high on fever reducing medications because their parents have to work and do not have sick days. I’ve already seen many parents saying they cannot quarantine their kids if the need be because they don’t have that much sick time. I totally get it because as a teacher we are only given 8 days per year. Also our classrooms are just over crowded. I’m not sure how class sizes are in other countries but in Texas the limit is 22 to 1 through 4th grade and then after that all bets are off. I had classes of 30 last year and my DH is a high school teacher and had always had classes of 35. If I need to spread kids out I can maybe fit about 15 kids in my room. They’ve already stated “spread kids out if you can”. That just shows teachers that they are still not taking it seriously. We are trying to fight this virus but not spend anymore on education. In fact most of our budgets are being cut. I do believe that 100% of teachers want to go back in the classroom because that is where all the things we love happens, but we want to ensure our safety and the safety of the kids and honestly most of our administrations have not proven to us that our safety is on the top of their priory list. I understand the concerns about parents sending sick kids to schools, I know many countries implemented temperature checking (and the school my cousin's kids went to over the summer as essential workers also required temperature checks). FYI - US is pretty average with class size compared to the rest of the world: economix.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/09/11/class-size-around-the-world/I've posted a few times an article taking a pretty comprehensive look at what other countries are doing with outcomes. new data suggests that children with the virus often don't have temperatures even if they have other symptoms |
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Post by freecharlie on Jul 11, 2020 20:20:46 GMT
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Post by Merge on Jul 11, 2020 20:52:40 GMT
schools in other countries have had to close after opening The number of cases in those countries started lower My guess is that they have better supplies/sanitation. my district no longer employs custodians and farms out "cleaning" to some company. Cleaning consisted of them vacuuming daily and wiping down my tables 2 times per week. Also, how many of those schools have masks mandatea? Some schools have had to close, but frankly not that many. And most of those countries did not have lower cases per capita than the US as a whole and certainly some areas of the US are significantly lower. Some have mask requirements, some didn't - I posted above an article that tried to gather as much data as possible on what seemed helpful and what wasn't. It's unfortunate that Sweden has not collected much/any data as they did not modify schools at all and it would have been helpful to have more data. The only thing I've seen is a 5% antibody in school children - which shows there were definitely outbreaks. I'll repost the long article that talked about schools in different areas. www.sciencemag.org/news/2020/07/school-openings-across-globe-suggest-ways-keep-coronavirus-bay-despite-outbreaksHere's an article talking about the lack of testing/data in Sweden: www.sciencemag.org/news/2020/05/how-sweden-wasted-rare-opportunity-study-coronavirus-schoolsI'm sure there are things than can be done better in general - and as I said, there has to be an acknowledgement of community rates and hot spots. I just don't believe that children in the US are fundamentally different than children in the rest of the world. Children may not be that different, but the way we're being asked to return to school is fundamentally different, as I said above. I read a long article about how French schools re-opened back in April. They decided how many children could reasonably be distanced in a classroom, and limited the re-opening to that many students, prioritizing the needs of essential workers and other select groups. If there wasn't space, there wasn't space - they didn't just crowd kids in as we're being asked to do. They also shortened the school day, recognizing that sitting in one room with the same people for 7 hours a day, 5 days a week, is not workable for any child. And even with these stringent limits on in-person attendance, several schools still had outbreaks and had to re-close. US schools, on the other hand, are being asked to prioritize providing in-person childcare for everyone who wants it over following any sort of science-based plan for safe return. We also seem to have a more contagious and child-spreadable mutation of the virus happening here. And, as pointed out above, we're being asked to re-open schools at a time of uncontrolled community spread in many areas. I don't necessarily think we have to wait until there's a vaccine until we re-open. I'd just like to see that there's been some attention given to how quickly the virus is spreading in any given area, and that the health and safety of children and staff are being prioritized over childcare needs. I've pointed out elsewhere that if we instituted a temporary universal basic income, there would be far fewer parents frantic to return their child to school at this point. |
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